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Potential Employees Wanting Cash Payments

CHIEF

By CHIEF
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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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I've ran across several business owners that have interviewed potential new employees. The latest, today, was the owner of the welding shop I use. He can't find anyone willing to get off of unemployment benefits and potential stimulus checks. They have 6-9 months of work backed up. They are willing to work for cash to not lose those benefits, but are unwilling to become full time employees. This has been discussed briefly in other threads, but it is becoming a big enough problem to warrant a thread. Are people gun-shy that they are going to get off of unemployment, then get laid off with uncertainty in the economy? Has a two person household streamlined itself to get by on $1200/week? None of the owners I talked to were willing to pay in cash, afraid of getting into trouble. But I assume some are willing to do it.

CHIEF

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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3 minutes ago, Deej said:

I mean, if you aren't looking for honest employees, go for it 

That's what the business owners, I know, are saying. It's theft. I have no employees, but these business owners are months behind. It would be long term employment. It's definitely not worth going to jail over, and tax evasion usually incurs that kind of wrath from the IRS.

CHIEF

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45877

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How would this not ultimately look fishy?  Revenue-to-payroll would spike.  Who would do this?

I am sympathetic to the shop owners, but I sure hope none of them thinks this is a good idea, except maybe for a quick turn for a few hours on the weekend or something like that.  Even then the exposure is high.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13507

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Maybe it’s time to up their pay rate and raise their prices for their customers.

I can’t imagine wanting to hire someone that immediately asks me to break the law in hiring them. Even if that person later relented and agreed to follow the law, I wouldn’t want them.

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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25 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Maybe it’s time to up their pay rate and raise their prices for their customers.

I can’t imagine wanting to hire someone that immediately asks me to break the law in hiring them. Even if that person later relented and agreed to follow the law, I wouldn’t want them.

These are $25-35/hr. jobs. These are skilled jobs. $50-70k per year, in cheap rural areas. There is an underlying issue. I'm thinking it's people thinking the economy might tank, and there would be millions trying to get back on benefits and are leery to their own detriment to get off. Something has to be done to reassure them that it is the right time to get back to work. Mrs. CHIEF's company has scheduled dozens of interviews where no one shows up.

This is a pivotal moment, people need to have faith that the economy is churning back to life, or what they fear, may very well happen. These people want their cake and eat it too, they want to make the high hourly wage and not report it, but want to keep sponging off the government to supplement their income to six figures. You are right that no one will want them, they have poisoned their own well. But you can't pay these people for doing nothing for the rest of their lives.

CHIEF

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Deej

Deej 76750

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21 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Guaranteed contract for an amount of time agreed to by both parties.  But I’m having a hard time figuring out why someone would turn down these $70,000 per year jobs in BFE so they can keep collecting an extra $300 per week.

You do know the next generation of game consoles came out?

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13507

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12 hours ago, CHIEF said:

These are $25-35/hr. jobs. These are skilled jobs. $50-70k per year, in cheap rural areas. There is an underlying issue. I'm thinking it's people thinking the economy might tank, and there would be millions trying to get back on benefits and are leery to their own detriment to get off. Something has to be done to reassure them that it is the right time to get back to work. Mrs. CHIEF's company has scheduled dozens of interviews where no one shows up.

This is a pivotal moment, people need to have faith that the economy is churning back to life, or what they fear, may very well happen. These people want their cake and eat it too, they want to make the high hourly wage and not report it, but want to keep sponging off the government to supplement their income to six figures. You are right that no one will want them, they have poisoned their own well. But you can't pay these people for doing nothing for the rest of their lives.

CHIEF

I imagine these is some fake info being shared online like losing future benefits if you secure a job today. Not to mention that some people are just greedy and have low morals.

If you wanted, there is a TWC hotline to report fraud. If you refuse an acceptable job offer for the purpose of continuing benefits, you’re stealing from taxpayers. Now I can understand a local employer may not want to get involved in snitching on people especially in a small town.

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I imagine these is some fake info being shared online like losing future benefits if you secure a job today. Not to mention that some people are just greedy and have low morals.

If you wanted, there is a TWC hotline to report fraud. If you refuse an acceptable job offer for the purpose of continuing benefits, you’re stealing from taxpayers. Now I can understand a local employer may not want to get involved in snitching on people especially in a small town.

It is a new phenomenon in my rural area. A lot of these potential employees are coming from other towns. Greed and low morals are the likely culprit. Snitching will probably get some retaliation. But the info is coming directly from the source, the employers looking for employees and doing the interviews, or the ones scheduling interviews and getting "no shows". A lot of it is hard work in the heat.

Some of us sat around and talked about it last night. The general consensus was that these assholes want to work for cash just enough to bridge the gap between their old incomes and their benefits. A lot of these potential employees worked in the oilfield, and were probably ran off for their shitty work ethic, and not showing up. It's mainly showing up in the trades, welding, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. The solution most came up with, was that there needs to be a deadline to quit extending benefits, and to post job openings on the TWC Texas Jobs database. I always thought the longest a person could be on unemployment was 39 weeks, but some people have been on for 14 months.

CHIEF

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31435

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16 hours ago, CHIEF said:

That's what the business owners, I know, are saying. It's theft. I have no employees, but these business owners are months behind. It would be long term employment. It's definitely not worth going to jail over, and tax evasion usually incurs that kind of wrath from the IRS.

CHIEF

I don't know how it would work exactly, with "undocumented" (meaning not officially employed/taxed) employees, but one of the surest ways to get your business shut down is to fail to pay or under pay a few pay periods of employment withholding taxes.

They're probably not going to jail you, but they will come in and seize and shutdown your business mas pronto if you fuck around with 941 taxes. And personal liability for the taxes attaches to business owners very easily.

It might take them longer to figure it out, but one would have the same problem (failure to withhold and pay over employment taxes) with this type of worker.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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deadshank

deadshank 24652

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9 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

 

speak for yourself dudley do right

I am.  We are trying to hire people.  Not having the best of luck.  
 

Do you think UEI should go on forever?  Is it better for society to have non-productive members? 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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46 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I am.  We are trying to hire people.  Not having the best of luck.  
 

Do you think UEI should go on forever?  Is it better for society to have non-productive members? 

Have you tried offering more money? 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13507

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Texas is ending the extra $300/weekly in late June.

Some people live in the short term world. They would rather earn less sitting at home than more at work, if the work salary isn't significantly higher. These are the same people that can't afford a $500 emergency because it's all about today not tomorrow.

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Johnny Chimpo

Johnny Chimpo 478

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2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Texas is ending the extra $300/weekly in late June.

Some people live in the short term world. They would rather earn less sitting at home than more at work, if the work salary isn't significantly higher. These are the same people that can't afford a $500 emergency because it's all about today not tomorrow.

The common clay of the new west… you know, morons. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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30 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

So what are these guys spending their $300/week on? Seems that'd be the business to be in. I'm thinking liquor store, maybe an Eskimo Hut, but with robot employees.

The same thing a guy making $5,000/week. Booze and women 

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gmr548

gmr548 16576

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Guaranteed contract for an amount of time agreed to by both parties.  But I’m having a hard time figuring out why someone would turn down these $70,000 per year jobs in BFE so they can keep collecting an extra $300 per week.

Yeah, host of other issues aside, the simple math on a lot of these “don’t want to work because of unemployment” stories doesn’t check out.
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13507

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I realize this article references restaurant workers and not the workers in OP post, but the article has the theory that 2020 forced restaurant workers to find other work and now restaurants cannot find enough people to work for the wages offered by restaurants.  As an example, they point to Amazon paying 15/hr while the average Texas restaurant worker earns 11. 

https://dallas.eater.com/22443725/texas-gov-abbott-ending-federal-unemployment-payments-not-solution-restaurant-staffing-problem

If workers require higher pay to work, then companies may need to respond with higher prices. I assume that inflation is a not smooth process as it flows through industries. 

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RDCanecutter

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14 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

As an example, they point to Amazon paying 15/hr while the average Texas restaurant worker earns 11 and goes home smelling like a combo of food and grease trap.

Really, the only reason to be a waiter is that you work through the crappy slow days for a shot at the hot nights where the place is packed and people are dropping crazy tips. With the pandemic, and I suspect for a while after, every day is a slow day.

(Ok, there are other reasons. Like getting to stay up til three am drinking for almost free with your bartender buddies with no repercussions at your job. So what, I blacked out.)

So if you have busy-night waiter instincts honed, why not work for Amazon. You're used to not getting to pee, the supervisor is probably not as melodramatic as a cook, there are no drunk dudes talking about how rich they are while trying to cadge free beer refills, and the crazy lady who wants to get comped because Jupiter is aligned with Mars is back at your old restaurant, muttering at the "closed" sign.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52484

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Fuck those double dipping assholes. 
 

when I got laid off a couple of years ago, I started on unemployment. After a month, we decided that I would stay home with the kids. So I stopped filing for unemployment since I wasn’t seeking employment any longer. Because it was the right thing to do. And since one week my unpaid PTO balance got paid out and 2 weeks later my severance was paid out, I only received 2 weeks of benefits. 
 

A good amount of people out there think they are good people but when presented with the choice of doing the right thing or doing what’s best for them, choose what’s best for them without hesitation. 
 

Keep drawing benefits, but do work as a temporary contractor. You don’t double dip, and you stay on the rolls the weeks you don’t work, and you also extend your benefits by not taking them every week. Plus work gets done, businesses stay afloat, people get services. That’s the right thing (generalizing). 

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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13 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Fuck those double dipping assholes. 
 

when I got laid off a couple of years ago, I started on unemployment. After a month, we decided that I would stay home with the kids. So I stopped filing for unemployment since I wasn’t seeking employment any longer. Because it was the right thing to do. And since one week my unpaid PTO balance got paid out and 2 weeks later my severance was paid out, I only received 2 weeks of benefits. 
 

A good amount of people out there think they are good people but when presented with the choice of doing the right thing or doing what’s best for them, choose what’s best for them without hesitation. 
 

Keep drawing benefits, but do work as a temporary contractor. You don’t double dip, and you stay on the rolls the weeks you don’t work, and you also extend your benefits by not taking them every week. Plus work gets done, businesses stay afloat, people get services. That’s the right thing (generalizing). 

I never knew that was an option, and imagine that most people don't. I've never heard of it.

CHIEF

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Sandman

Sandman 3403

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My wife's company runs a bunch of bars and they just switched over to a cashless system. Now all of the bartenders don't want to come back to work because no cash means they won't get the same level of tips as before (or they can't fudge the numbers in the till).  They aren't making just 2.13/hr either. They've been scrambling to hire some bartenders from temp agencies to get by.

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Hornlover

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On 5/21/2021 at 6:59 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Guaranteed contract for an amount of time agreed to by both parties.  But I’m having a hard time figuring out why someone would turn down these $70,000 per year jobs in BFE so they can keep collecting an extra $300 per week.

Since time eternal, waiters and bartenders have preferred cash tips. If they make $200 a night in cash tips and $50 in credit card tips, they report $50 in tips earned and don't pay taxes on the $200 (maybe $40-$60 more money in their pocket?). 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

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On 5/21/2021 at 6:30 PM, jimmyjazz said:

How would this not ultimately look fishy?  Revenue-to-payroll would spike.  Who would do this?

I’m not certain the shoulder to the holder types understand nuances like that, or care if they did.  
 

On 5/21/2021 at 7:51 PM, CHIEF said:

But you can't pay these people for doing nothing for the rest of their lives.

You’d be surprised. 

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Reagan1k

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On 5/21/2021 at 3:36 PM, CHIEF said:

That's what the business owners, I know, are saying. It's theft. I have no employees, but these business owners are months behind. It would be long term employment. It's definitely not worth going to jail over, and tax evasion usually incurs that kind of wrath from the IRS.

CHIEF

Your friends are correct.  If they start to waver, I can provide them with the names of two different people I know who can dissuade them.  Your buddies will find mine willing to talk anytime because they are bored, doing federal time.

Paying cash on any decent scale opens the Feds playbook for so many charges, and they’ll make your friend look like a robber barron to the jury instead of a guy just trying to run a business and get product moved during unprecedented times.  It’s a layup prosecution and layers of restitution that can’t be overcome.

 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27526

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1 hour ago, Hornlover said:

Since time eternal, waiters and bartenders have preferred cash tips. If they make $200 a night in cash tips and $50 in credit card tips, they report $50 in tips earned and don't pay taxes on the $200 (maybe $40-$60 more money in their pocket?). 

They have to report based on sales. So unless they are pocketing cash tabs for drinks (stealing from their employer) they are paying taxes on more than just the cc $. Still probably not reporting all of it

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

They have to report based on sales. So unless they are pocketing cash tabs for drinks (stealing from their employer) they are paying taxes on more than just the cc $. Still probably not reporting all of it

It has been a long time since I have paid a tip in cash, and looking around my local watering hole, it seems as though that cash tips are few and far between. It could be another reason it is hard to find waitstaff. Granted, you don't have to fight for the bartender's attention, like at Billy Bob's, or any other concert venue, but tip jars and extra cash laying on top of the cc receipt is sparse. 

CHIEF

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9927

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I said this on another thread, Amazon is now the defacto minimum wage in this country: $15 plus bennies.  Which means a salary only job better be enough to cover a bronze plan in the Obamacare market place. If you aren’t offering that......good luck.  

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deadshank

deadshank 24652

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8 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I said this on another thread, Amazon is now the defacto minimum wage in this country: $15 plus bennies.  Which means a salary only job better be enough to cover a bronze plan in the Obamacare market place. If you aren’t offering that......good luck.  

Glad I get to compete with Amazon!

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13507

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@CHIEF what are the options for your peers in hiring people without any or different experience, for the jobs that the experienced people want cash? If the labor market isn’t supplying them with what they need, maybe they need to change the labor market.

as for the general workforce, I haven’t heard much about the undocumented economic situation over the past year. I’m sure it was worse than the average American. Has anyone read any estimates on whether people returned to their home country or not?  If so, I wonder if that is contributing to the labor shortage for some industries like restaurants.

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

@CHIEF what are the options for your peers in hiring people without any or different experience, for the jobs that the experienced people want cash? If the labor market isn’t supplying them with what they need, maybe they need to change the labor market.

as for the general workforce, I haven’t heard much about the undocumented economic situation over the past year. I’m sure it was worse than the average American. Has anyone read any estimates on whether people returned to their home country or not?  If so, I wonder if that is contributing to the labor shortage for some industries like restaurants.

They hit up the local DFW trade schools. A lot of the guys coming out want to be compensated as though they have been there for a few years. A lot of weeding through rocks to find the diamonds. It's not really hard to be a diamond, show up for work, be dependable, do your job right, and have a good attitude. When they get where they can get quicker and take on more service calls, their pay increases proportionately, they get bonuses, etc. 

With skyrocketing material costs, it is tough raising your labor rate 25-30%. Business owners are worried that customers will choose to delay projects, or cancel them entirely. Or worse, use the cash guys on the side.

CHIEF 

 

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