Thoughts on the new Texas Constitutional Carry?

[immortal13 4,059]

29 minutes ago, immamac said:

Those people are lazy and stupid. Fuck them. You don't just take a weapon designed to take life from others just because you want to and the burden of paying some money and getting/ensuring you know how to use said weapon in a basic fashion is so low it's comical that you are defending it. 

It's not only my opinion, it's the opinion of millions of Texans, more Texans than think that unlicensed conceal carry is a great idea. You are part of the minority here and everywhere in Texas where this was thought to be a problem. 

So how does a handgun help you in an auto accident or a house fire? I'm really curious to know what kind of super powers having a handgun gives you in those situations. Is it so you can shoot at the flames? Is it so you can shoot the people escaping from the fire? Please let me know.

Muggings, rapists, car jackings are all things that result in death of the assailant with a gun. I'm not defending any of these crimes, but if that is happening sans weapon, you think that is judge dredd style you get to execute this person? I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to protect yourself, but have you ever been maced? Makes those things pretty fucking hard. The car jacking one also doesn't really make sense in my argument since I said I understand the justification of keeping a gun while traveling, car is extension of home.

I'm not trying to attack you, I just think your argument is absurd and weak. The anecdotal evidence you provided was likewise pretty bogus and more about "feelings" than actual proof that this has a meaningful impact on the safety of anyone.

I think the law is pointless and I don't think it makes anyone safer or less safe. It's just official that in Texas anyone can legally have a gun, unless prohibited by private places, which will probably be more and more the case. 

Lies

[Anastasis 23,475]

1 minute ago, Armybrat said:

You are correct. I just didn’t express it clear enough apparently.

It was clear enough. 

[Armybrat 40,851]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Is it being called “Constitutional” carry so the people against it get called out? It’s permitless carry. Just say you want to carry without regulation or licensing and stop hiding behind the constitution. 

There is plenty of regulation with Constitutional Carry.

Why do you resent the term Constitutional? Virtually every American “hides” behind the 1st Amendment.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Armybrat

[immamac 42,864]

Just now, Armybrat said:

There is plenty of regulation with Constitutional Carry.

Why do you resent the term Constitutional? Virtually every American “hides” behind the 1st Amendment.

I actually think it makes sense and don't have a problem with calling it that. I don't have a problem with the law either, I'm saying it's basically a waste of effort legislatively. The change this will bring to Texas will be negligible. 

[immortal13 4,059]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

I actually think it makes sense and don't have a problem with calling it that. I don't have a problem with the law either, I'm saying it's basically a waste of effort legislatively. The change this will bring to Texas will be negligible. 

Then why are you so angry about it?

[Steel Shank 9,428]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

I actually think it makes sense and don't have a problem with calling it that. I don't have a problem with the law either, I'm saying it's basically a waste of effort legislatively. The change this will bring to Texas will be negligible. 

this

[Steel Shank 9,428]

16 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

I think people driving with their face stuck looking at a screen is a far bigger danger to Texans than the latest hysteria over carrying. But, this may be hitting too close to home for some people.

I want this on page 2

[immamac 42,864]

7 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Then why are you so angry about it?

 

6 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

this

 

[Parliament 14,260]

So this is the Constitutional Carry thread that's political, but polite about it?  If so, I will participate.

I have a ND CCW, and I carry often, but not always.  And not on the job because Many of my customers wouldn't like it when I accidentally expose my XD.  I have never drawn or fired my weapon in self defense, and I hope I never hafta.  If that day ever comes, I hope I have the wherewithal to not mess it up.  You really don't know if you have it together until that moment comes.  Maybe I'll use it judiciously, maybe I'll poop my pants.  Dunno.

"Constitutional Carry," is an easily marketed way of saying, "Our right to carry a firearm is guaranteed by the Constitution, and we don't need a permit." I agree with that sentiment, and I support the law here in ND.  I haven't looked up the numbers, but I suspect accidental shootings are higher here, and in most Constitutional Carry States.  And it seems that we as North Dakotans don't mind.  It's a tradeoff we accept.  Outsiders my disagree with that, and that's OK.  I won't judge your for what your own State does, and I'll obey your laws when I visit.  All I ask is that you respect my culture the same way I do yours. 

[Steel Shank 9,428]

Our legislature does stupid shit all of the time. The public actually handles shit better than our legislature does. Sometimes.

[UTPhil2006 3,807]

Might as well move this to the CR

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

37 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Law-abiding citizen’s should have the right to determine their own means of self defense, not the government. It is a natural right.

 

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

And yes, I know people who wanted to carry but refused to pay the government a fee for permission to exercise their right to self defense away from their home.or vehicle. No different really than citizens who believed that having to pay a poll tax to vote was unconstitutional.

This seems to be getting close to a sovereign citizen mindset.  Do you identify that way?

Why do you think a “natural right” to self defense has any influence on whether a government can or should require a permit to conceal? I have a natural right to transport myself, to move across the landscape; therefore, a government shouldn’t set speed limits? I have a natural right to feed myself therefor I can take food from the grocery store without paying for it?

FYI, the “law abiding citizen” label is simply something to attempt to differentiate yourself from the “others.”  It’s like labeling good guys and bad guys.  It’s intended to make you feel special and therefore immune to any minor inconvenience, like taking a class or getting a permit. For folks who listen to the gun debate, the law abiding citizen trope kind of rings similar to muh freedoms or some other pointless idea.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Quote

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This issue is all about interpretation of the word above. Everyone interprets it differently depending how they feel about guns. 
 

Some people read the second half of the sentence and believe the first half doesn’t exist. 
Some people read the entire sentence 

Some people incorporate the historical context and time period in which this statement was written and why it was written 

 

[Cajun 11,714]

59 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

I think people driving with their face stuck looking at a screen is a far bigger danger to Texans than the latest hysteria over carrying. But, this may be hitting too close to home for some people.

My old Civic was clobbered twice over near O'Henry Middle School when I lived in Austin.  Both times by females looking at their iPhones and each time the Civic was parallel parked on the curb.  

Lots of kids running around on those streets.

Not worthy of pearl clutching I guess.

[deadshank 24,653]

21 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Might as well move this to the CR

Move another Constitutional Carry thread to the CR again?

[Armybrat 40,851]

Yeah, “bad guys” aren’t allowed by law to possess firearms.

On the other hand, some “good guys” shouldn’t be allowed to either. That is recognized everywhere including gun forums. But it is what it is, just like ignorant fools have the right to vote.

As for myself, if & when I get too careless or incompetent, I will not carry any firearm.... and give all my collection except one to the kids & grandkids.

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

I drill my 5 year old son, who is fascinated with becoming a soldier, on the uses of a gun.

"Guns are for target practice, hunting, and to save your life.

 Guns are not for when you are mad, when you are sad, and they are not for shooting bad guys."

 

 

More idiots, pussies, and emotional retards with guns is not a good thing for society. But it is what it is.

[EuroHorn 3,265]

[Armybrat 40,851]

39 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Might as well move this to the CR

Not talking about the politics in this one, as alleged for the other thread.

[Cajun 11,714]

8 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

How can anyone be against Open Carrie?

[Armybrat 40,851]

9 hours ago, Bevo said:

I thought Whitman was slowed by people shooting back.

Yes he was. Heard it first hand myself.

But that’s not really the purpose of CCarry.

[Cajun 11,714]

18 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

 

 

 

More idiots, pussies, and emotional retards with guns is not a good thing for society. But it is what it is.

I don't see why you have to turn this into a cop thing.

[RPM 26,322]

2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I don't think this will end well.

I'm waiting until a black man open carries.

[Celery Man 20,966]

You know I keep that thang on me
 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Celery Man

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

I am really curious about the mentality of carrying a gun. I understand the concept of preparedness and self defense, but at the same time I guess I kind of don’t.

For over a decade I have been visiting the poorest and most violent areas of Houston and other cities for photography and at no point did I think I needed a gun. Not to protect myself or the thousands of dollars worth of camera gear. Hell, even when I lived in Brazil, I never thought I would want a gun (though it is illegal there).

I’m not say I am a bad ass. But if something goes down, the majority of the time it’s fast and chaotic and you are not The Man With No Name and drawing your gun and shooting 3 guys in 1 second.

As for protecting a woman in your family being raped, well, I assure you if I walked in on that, the guy would wish I had a gun as I am either choking him out or cutting his cock and balls off.

[Js1 85,408]

6 minutes ago, RPM said:

I'm waiting until a black man open carries.

The black community should go protest around the capitol for the Texas voter suppression bill. Openly carrying of course. 

[Cajun 11,714]

9 minutes ago, RPM said:

I'm waiting until a black man open carries.

Saw a fellow of color just a month or so ago at the car wash next to me out near the Medical Center here in SA.  We chatted about the crime that was going on out that way and I thanked him for being a Sheep Dog.

Retired Army and I wouldn't wanna be on the barking end of that pistola.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Cajun

[Cajun 11,714]

7 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I am really curious about the mentality of carrying a gun. I understand the concept of preparedness and self defense, but at the same time I guess I kind of don’t.

For over a decade I have been visiting the poorest and most violent areas of Houston and other cities for photography and at no point did I think I needed a gun. Not to protect myself or the thousands of dollars worth of camera gear. Hell, even when I lived in Brazil, I never thought I would want a gun (though it is illegal there).

I’m not say I am a bad ass. But if something goes down, the majority of the time it’s fast and chaotic and you are not The Man With No Name and drawing your gun and shooting 3 guys in 1 second.

As for protecting a woman in your family being raped, well, I assure you if I walked in on that, the guy would wish I had a gun as I am either choking him out or cutting his cock and balls off.

Have you watched uncensored videos from Brazil lately?  Just curious.

There are legions of videos of ordinary folk in the country twarting bad guys because they are packing.  I mean, it's like 3 or 4 a day.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Have you watched uncensored videos from Brazil lately?  Just curious.
There are legions of videos of ordinary folk in the country twarting bad guys because they are packing.  I mean, it's like 3 or 4 a day.

Not lately. Life is already depressing enough. However, things are pretty different there than here. When I am there, I never feel the need for a gun. But I also don’t own a business there. But a shop owner with a shotgun is not what we are talking about.

[deadshank 24,653]

11 minutes ago, RPM said:

I'm waiting until a black man open carries.

I’ve seen it in the wild.  Didn’t bat an eye.  He had an ex-military aura about him that seemed he had his stuff dialed in.  
 

On a different occasion, the  pistol-packing Mama June that was OC before it was legal gave me pause and I quickly evacuated the space  between her and the food order position / cash register at Joel’s in Flatonia as she looked very hungry. 

[Cajun 11,714]

2 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Not lately. Life is already depressing enough. However, things are pretty different there than here. When I am there, I never feel the need for a gun. But I also don’t own a business there. But a shop owner with a shotgun is not what we are talking about.

No they aren't.  Took me 20 seconds to find.

https://www.funker530.com/video/cashier-drops-robber-with-concealed-handgun/

[Cajun 11,714]

 

[Cajun 11,714]

I could keep going, and going, and going...

But what's the point?

Go Horns.  Kick Mountaineer ass today!

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

No they aren't.  Took me 20 seconds to find.
https://www.funker530.com/video/cashier-drops-robber-with-concealed-handgun/

What do you mean?

And I didn’t say I couldn’t find them, just saying I don’t feel like watching them.

[Cajun 11,714]

Because that keeps the naivity intact?

[Cajun 11,714]

And as to "What do you mean?".  You said, "things are a lot different here than there" (Brazil) and I simply responded that as far as the need for self defense goes, I said, "No they're not"

Simple as that.

That said, we just disagree.  But you're a good dude with a bad ass username, so I'm hitting "eject" on this subject for now.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Cajun

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Because that keeps the naivity intact?

Wait, you think because I haven’t looked at them lately I have never seen them?

And as to "What do you mean?".  You said, "things are a lot different here than there" (Brazil) and I simply responded that as far as the need for self defense goes, I said, "No they're not"
Simple as that.
That said, we just disagree.  But you're a good dude with a bad ass username, so I'm hitting "eject" on this subject for now.

Things are different there. The violence is at a whole other level. The poverty too. The worst parts of any American city are nothing like a favela. All I am saying is neither here, nor there have I felt the need to carry a weapon.

[Sandman 3,403]

19 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I’m not say I am a bad ass. But if something goes down, the majority of the time it’s fast and chaotic and you are not The Man With No Name and drawing your gun and shooting 3 guys in 1 second.

I don't want to speak for anyone else but I'd bet most CCL holders would agree with me: I have zero desire to shoot anyone or even draw my weapon. My only goal would be to GTFO of the situation alive. I'm not trying to shoot 3 guys, I'm trying to make my escape and keep myself/my family safe. If some shit goes down in the 7-11, I'm not going to save the clerk, I'm going for the safest exit. I wouldn't draw down on someone unless I was cornered. 

I've had my license for almost 3 years, never even came close to needing it but I'm glad I have the option. 

[Guest Lobo]

I'm fine with this bill.  As others have stated, it's gonna end up a nothing-berder.  With a handful of folks actually doing it that don't have CHL.  No crimes will be thwarted, no innocent people gunned down by fellow citizens.  If private businesses restrict it, people should adhere to it.  Do the smart thing and keep the weapons out of bars, schools, and ice skating competitions.  

I think some of our frustrations simply stem from the legislature as usually focusing on dumb shit instead of what Texans have been clamoring for for decades---better schools, tax relief, transportation, a reliable electrical grid, and more honest and reliable governance.  Instead we get shit like revised textbooks and open carry.  Shit that like 20% of Texans asked for.  

But all our bullshit and levity aside, a black or hispanic man is going to make use of this new freedom and be perceived as a threat by fellow citizens and something bad is gonna happen in the next 12 months.  It's just inevitable.  Resign yourself to it so we can start picking sides on what happened and why.  

[Sandman 3,403]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

But all our bullshit and levity aside, a black or hispanic man is going to make use of this new freedom and be perceived as a threat by fellow citizens and something bad is gonna happen in the next 12 months.  It's just inevitable. 

No, it won't. We've had this for a few years in Oklahoma and if the people here are as dumb, racist, methed up as most of you say, it would've happened here already. You were right in your second sentence, it will be a nothing burger. Just like the people in Oregon that thought there would be many deaths by people pumping their own gas. 

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Sandman said:

No, it won't. We've had this for a few years in Oklahoma and if the people here are as dumb, racist, methed up as most of you say, it would've happened here already. You were right in your second sentence, it will be a nothing burger. Just like the people in Oregon that thought there would be many deaths by people pumping their own gas. 

I almost got killed pumping my own gas in Oregon.  But because we didn't know the rule, were high, and the attendant came running out with a shotgun to scream at us to put the pump down (this was out in the sticks near Bend).  

[83Horn 1,642]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

I actually think it makes sense and don't have a problem with calling it that. I don't have a problem with the law either, I'm saying it's basically a waste of effort legislatively. The change this will bring to Texas will be negligible. 

Not so sure about this.  Where I live, here in Virginia, we don't have a Constitutional Carry law.  We can open carry, but must have a permit to carry concealed.  If we are ever caught carrying concealed without a permit, I believe we can be charged with a felony, which is why I don't carry.  If we had Constitutional Carry, I would carry in certain situations.  Perhaps it's different in Texas, but the passage of Constitutional Carry, while probably won't have any practical effect on crime rates, does protect those who want to carry, but for whatever reason choose not to get a State issued license.

[elfenix 34,308]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

I think your stubbornness is not particularly rational, especially when you repeat the nonsensical “anyone”. That is just plain false.

Law-abiding citizen’s should have the right to determine their own means of self defense, not the government. It is a natural right.

law-abiding citizen's what?

[immamac 42,864]

18 minutes ago, 83Horn said:

Not so sure about this.  Where I live, here in Virginia, we don't have a Constitutional Carry law.  We can open carry, but must have a permit to carry concealed.  If we are ever caught carrying concealed without a permit, I believe we can be charged with a felony, which is why I don't carry.  If we had Constitutional Carry, I would carry in certain situations.  Perhaps it's different in Texas, but the passage of Constitutional Carry, while probably won't have any practical effect on crime rates, does protect those who want to carry, but for whatever reason choose not to get a State issued license.

In Texas if you own a gun you can get a concealed permit, that's why it's a nothing burger. It's $100 bucks and half a saturday and poof you can carry. I realize in other states it is much much more difficult to have permits to even own or carry weapons. In Texas it is not.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

43 minutes ago, Lobo said:

keep the weapons out of bars, schools, and ice skating competitions

Pretty sure ice skating competitions have shown us a gun is absolutely needed 

[Armybrat 40,851]

13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

law-abiding citizen's what?

Old fat fingers?

[deadshank 24,653]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Pretty sure ice skating competitions have shown us a gun is absolutely needed 

Nancy Kerrigan agrees.

 

[83Horn 1,642]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

In Texas if you own a gun you can get a concealed permit, that's why it's a nothing burger. It's $100 bucks and half a saturday and poof you can carry. I realize in other states it is much much more difficult to have permits to even own or carry weapons. In Texas it is not.

Understand, but it's not the difficulty of obtaining the permit that's at issue here, it's the very need to have the government's permission to carry that's the issue.  As an extreme, and very unlikle example, here in Virginia you can open carry without a permit.  If I happen to be open carrying with a shoulder holster, or a rig on my hip on a nice warm spring day while I'm out and about, and a cold front blows in, the temperature drops and I put on a jacket, I am now concealed carrying and technically committing a felony by putting on my jacket.  Is this a likely scenario...no, but as I stated in my last post, the Constitutional Carry law protects those who don't want to open carry, would like to carry concealed, but for whatever reason have chosen not to get licensed.

[Cajun 11,714]

1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

 

 

Wait, you think because I haven’t looked at them lately I have never seen them?



Things are different there. The violence is at a whole other level. The poverty too. The worst parts of any American city are nothing like a favela. All I am saying is neither here, nor there have I felt the need to carry a weapon.

 

 

To the first question, no, that's not what I was saying.  But we're talking past each other at this point.

So, BEAT WVU GOTDAMNIT!!!

[Apep 645]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but to get an LTC in Texas you have to attest to several things, such as not having been diagnosed with certain mental conditions. (I assume in the case of a wrongful diagnosis, there was some kind of due process to prove that it was wrong.) Constitutional carry does away with that limit unless you’ve been adjudicated as mentally incompetent or committed and stuff like that.