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The 2021 NBA Draft

shadow_operative

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18523

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7 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

and jones has a shit-ton more athleticism than LA, who is known as being one of the less athletic guys at his position. just an all around puzzling take. 

relatedly, Kai Jones reminds me of Leandro Barbosa in the body of a young Giannis. he has insane athleticism, world class speed, and a really good looking jumper (in workouts) which portends well going forward. he doesn't remind me of LA at all. he's not as sure a thing as LA, but his ceiling is higher.

Functional athleticism, sure. But the thing about LA was that he ran the floor like a deer. It's easy to forget that looking at him in the twilight of his career when he became primarily a post up threat and couldn't move on defense, but as a young guy coming into the league, he would routinely beat smaller guys down the floor. 

There's a lot to like about Kai but you just don't know how good he actually is at basketball yet. No doubt the stuff you can't teach, he has in spades. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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On 7/15/2021 at 5:00 PM, Message Board User said:

This is who I'd pick #1 ahead of Cade & Mobley.

 

 

On 7/16/2021 at 8:38 PM, Message Board User said:

From Zach Harper's mock draft in The Athletic.

 

League sources have said Houston is heavily leaning toward Jalen Green there, but there are people within the Rockets’ decision-making process pushing for Jalen Suggs out of Gonzaga. Green’s potential as a star wing in this league has the Rockets’ focus, but the idea of Suggs grabbing the momentum at some point exists. Scouts and executives love his size at the point guard position, and believe he can be the leader of a young, rebuilding team.

Do you expect a trade here? I’d put it at about 75-25 that the Rockets keep this pick. I don’t think they’re married to a selection here, but they’re certainly engaged and planning the wedding.

However, a trade up remains a realistic possibility for the Rockets.

The Rockets have been infatuated with the Oklahoma State product. Missing out on him by “only” getting the No. 2 overall pick in the draft was a big blow to their dreams. As The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported earlier this week, they’re trying to get aggressive in talking to Detroit about a potential trade. What would it take for the Pistons to relinquish the top pick?

Houston owns a lot of draft picks over the next few years thanks to the James Harden trade, but they don’t really have a blue chipper they can offer up right now. The second pick in the draft would be the starting point, and then probably a few of their own draft picks and some of the potential picks/pick swaps with Brooklyn in the future. Maybe we throw in Kevin Porter Jr. as a cheap, young player on the roster. Considering Detroit passed on keeping Christian Wood, I’d assume he’s not the guy the Pistons want back in a deal. You can construct a trade that takes away a lot of the draft capital in the future for Houston, but I still don’t think it motivates Detroit to get a deal done.

My next question after this: if the Pistons are willing to consider a trade with Houston, then what does that mean for the rest of the league in opening up their chances at making an offer? Detroit would open the floodgates, but I don’t know if anything will energize the fan base like the idea of Cunningham there for a decade-plus.

Do you expect a trade here? I do not. Cade will be a Piston.

I like how you offered your take on who the #1 pick should be then posted an article that beat into submission how valuable the #1 pick is because Cade Cunningham. 

Some of y'all don't get it. It's like Luka all over again. If Cade falls to Houston I'm going to vomit in the toilet for an entire weekend. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

Posted
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18 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

There's a lot to like about Kai but you just don't know how good he actually is at basketball yet. No doubt the stuff you can't teach, he has in spades.

Kai is very good at basketball. He made more clear-cut NBA plays than anyone on Texas last year. He doesn't strike me as a particularly raw prospect - more someone who you wonder how consistently he can get in his bag to make those moves at the next level. 

I mean, here. Maybe some of this has faded a bit.

GB III is someone who you don't know how good he is at basketball. 

30 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

LA had one of the best mid-range games I've seen at the college level.

And consequently had one of the best mid-range games at the professional level. 

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12389

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4 hours ago, ztejas said:

 

I like how you offered your take on who the #1 pick should be then posted an article that beat into submission how valuable the #1 pick is because Cade Cunningham. 

Some of y'all don't get it. It's like Luka all over again. If Cade falls to Houston I'm going to vomit in the toilet for an entire weekend. 

Not sure what your point is.  I prefer Green, some prefer Mobley, but most prefer Cade.  
 

We’ll see what’s what in a few years.

 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18523

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5 hours ago, ztejas said:

Kai is very good at basketball. He made more clear-cut NBA plays than anyone on Texas last year. He doesn't strike me as a particularly raw prospect - more someone who you wonder how consistently he can get in his bag to make those moves at the next level. 

I mean, here. Maybe some of this has faded a bit.

 

85% of those highlights are him dunking in transition and alley oops, 10% are him knocking open down 3's, and the rest are some mix of put backs and drives. None of them show his relatively poor court awareness (especially as a weak side defender), complete lack of post game, and generally slow/non-anticipatory decision making. The fear is that he's the next Stromile Swift.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like there but he's only been playing basketball since he was an 15. He should be raw. 

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Bevo

Bevo 13516

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On 7/18/2021 at 9:13 PM, BigOrange1 said:

uh, lamarcus has a fuckton more of an offensive game in college than jones did.

Better, but as a freshman in the 16 games leading up to his injury here are his stats:

He ranked in a tie for fifth on the team in scoring (9.9 ppg), third in rebounding (5.9 rpg), second in blocks (24) and led the team in field goal percentage (.663). In his sophomore year is where he averaged 15.0 ppg and showed a good mid-range game. And he ran the floor extremely well for a big man in his years at Texas and early years in the NBA.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14501

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13 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Kevin O'Connor of the Ringer updated his Big Board and Jalen Johnson is free falling all the way down to 26 overall.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

And I'm really hoping the Cavs can get back into the mid first round and select Trey Murphy - he'll be one of the steals of the draft.

 

I didn't realize that Jalen Johnson quit on both his HS team and Duke.  Hard pass.

Consensus now seems to be Orlando taking Barnes, Okie City taking Bougknight and Kuminga falling after that.  GS may take him, they may not.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

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2 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I didn't realize that Jalen Johnson quit on both his HS team and Duke.  Hard pass.

Consensus now seems to be Orlando taking Barnes, Okie City taking Bougknight and Kuminga falling after that.  GS may take him, they may not.

what is it with Orlando? are they trying to simply start the tallest, longest, worst shooting team in the league?

imagine this lineup next year:

Markelle Fultz 

Michael Carter-Williams 

Scottie Barnes 

Jonathan Issac

Mo Bamba

 

they might not be able to score 80 points in 48 minutes, but they can definitely win you a track and field meet, or help get your cat out of a tree.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14501

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2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

what is it with Orlando? are they trying to simply start the tallest, longest, worst shooting team in the league?

imagine this lineup next year:

Markelle Fultz 

Michael Carter-Williams 

Scottie Barnes 

Jonathan Issac

Mo Bamba

 

they might not be able to score 80 points in 48 minutes, but they can definitely win you a track and field meet, or help get your cat out of a tree.

They pick again at #8 so they could still get Kuminga so throw him in there, too.

At this state in their game, Okie City isn't going to swing for the fences on a 50/50 prospect in Kuminga.  If they do and he busts, then they push everything back a few years and might as well trade SGA at that point.  Bougknight and Barnes seem like they both have a high floor so they'll take them, pair them with SGA and that Poku dude, trade Kemba for something and go with that for the short term.  

I get the sense GS wants to trade out of their picks.  They want players now.  Maybe they send them with Wiggins/Wiseman to either Portland or Philly.  

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6422

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14 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Not sure what your point is.  I prefer Green, some prefer Mobley, but most prefer Cade.  
 

We’ll see what’s what in a few years.

 

i just want to go on record and state that i think evan mobley is the best prospect in this draft.

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3533

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Think its less of a big man vs small man thing vs is this a guy that projects to drop 40 points some nights if you need it, else FO with a top overall pick. 

Ayton is a nice player and all but he's not a bucket getter and the Suns are about to max him. Would feel gross inside giving a guy that can't put up 30 a night a max contract in today's NBA. All the best players can almost score at will. 

Ayton in college:

image.thumb.png.50ebfacb43002313181afdb534338d17.png

Mobley:

image.thumb.png.814309f99271fd100ce0e7c39fe808fc.png

 

Edited by Loch Ness Monster
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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12790

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17 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Giannis may be winning his first title tonight, but even so- how many teams who build around a big man win it all these days? is Mobley more special than, say, Jokic? Embiid? Giannis? the mere fact that he's a big  man says to me that he's not "the biggest prize in this draft". 

Agreed 100%

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9798

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57 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Think its less of a big man vs small man thing vs is this a guy that projects to drop 40 points some nights if you need it, else FO with a top overall pick. 

Ayton is a nice player and all but he's not a bucket getter and the Suns are about to max him. Would feel gross inside giving a guy that can't put up 30 a night a max contract in today's NBA. All the best players can almost score at will. 

Ayton in college:

image.thumb.png.50ebfacb43002313181afdb534338d17.png

Mobley:

image.thumb.png.814309f99271fd100ce0e7c39fe808fc.png

 

1234

They are players you can win a Championship with but can’t lead you to a championship. 
 

Hell, Davis hasn’t done anything without Lebron, Embid comes up short, Ayton etc. 

If the comparison is Chris Bosh (Rockets) trade down. 

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Loch Ness Monster

Loch Ness Monster 3533

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20 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Giannis may be winning his first title tonight, but even so- how many teams who build around a big man win it all these days? is Mobley more special than, say, Jokic? Embiid? Giannis? the mere fact that he's a big  man says to me that he's not "the biggest prize in this draft". 

Top 3 NBA chip favorites in 2022: Nets (KD), Lakers (AD), Bucks (Giannis)

They are all modern day big men and bucket getters. Days of the 7 foot statues are over though. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

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1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Mobley looks to me like he could be a perimeter player in the NBA.  He can handle the ball better than Ayton.  He’s quick and agile.  But I still wouldn’t take him over Cade.  

I’d be shocked if Cade doesn’t go number 1.   I admittedly know nothing about Green, but I can’t believe in today’s NBA someone is going to pass up a 6’8” guy who can play PG, shoot, and can already score from anywhere - post, midrange or outside.  Unless Lebron or Giannis is the other option, you don’t pick someone else because they’re more “explosive” or whatever.  Just look at who the top scorers in the league are now - it’s not based on standing reach or jumping out of the gym.

Cade's ability to score from anywhere, the fact that he can really shoot the ball, his aptitude for reading the game and letting him come to him, then making adjustments, his 6'8" frame, his NBA-ready body and game- in with you. he has to be the no.1 pick.

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Slacks

Slacks 6791

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On 7/21/2021 at 6:33 PM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Out of the prospects I've seen Cade is the best for today's NBA.

This right here...  6'8" bucket getter and point forward.  NBA defenses won't be able to quadruple team him or try to zone him all night.  His defense is good (not great) enough to 3&D.  Team leader.

If DET passes on him, HOU will not pass or trade back.

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12389

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2 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

They must think all 3 guys at the top of the draft are going to be MVP candidates.

Ding ding ding!  There's a reason there's been so much interest in the #3 pick - Tier 1 (Cade, Green, and Mobley) are just that much better than the rest of the field and in a normal year any of them would be a #1 overall pick.

Mobley (penciled in as the Cavs pick) is just off the charts as a prospect.

“Why aren’t we more excited about Evan Mobley,” asked Chad Ford, a long-time NBA Draft Analyst. “I had one scout tell me the other night that Mobley is Chris Bosh on offense and Anthony Davis on defense. That’s an NBA superstar. That’s crazy.”
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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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6 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

That’s getting a little ridiculous.  I know even the bad teams have someone who has to put up numbers, but SGA was pretty efficient last year with a really crappy roster surrounding him in OKC.  They must think all 3 guys at the top of the draft are going to be MVP candidates.

SGA only has one year before he's a RFA*

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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17 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I get the SGA contract but when did he become some spare part?  He just turned 23 and he's 24 ppg, 50% FG, 80% FT, and 40% from three along with 6 assists.  If any of these picks are doing that in year 3 then we'd be slobbing all over them.

SGA's trade value is that for next season he's on a phenomenal contract and after that his team would be able to match any offer sheet. So for a team that is either close to contending or wants to strengthen a potential championship run he would be a great piece. 

The Cavs don't care about next season because they aren't doing shit. Maybe they'd scratch out the 7 or 8 seed. They also probably don't want to pay SGA $30M/yr (or whatever gets thrown at him) until 2026 after that. They want either Mobley or Green on a four year deal and another lottery pick next year. SGA doesn't help them accomplish either of those goals. 

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12389

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12 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I get the SGA contract but when did he become some spare part?  He just turned 23 and he's 24 ppg, 50% FG, 80% FT, and 40% from three along with 6 assists.  If any of these picks are doing that in year 3 then we'd be slobbing all over them.

I don't think anyone's calling SGA a spare part.  He's a good player and will probably make multiple all star teams.  Nobody is doubting that.

But will SGA ever be a franchise centerpiece?  The best player on a 50+ win team?  No way.  

Instead, it's pretty much consensus that the top 3 players (and only the top 3 players) have a ceiling as just that - franchise cornerstone and best player on a good team.  If this was last year where LaMelo Ball was the #3 pick, then yeah absolutely make that trade for SGA.

But Cade, Green, and Mobley have insane upside and even though I'm pot-committed on calling Green the best of the draft, the more I read about Mobley's personality and work ethic, the more I think he might be a better fit for Cleveland than Green.

I almost had to call my physician after reading this latest Mobley piece because my erection was lasting more than 4 hours.

 

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