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Who would you take over Lebron?

closetohumping

By closetohumping
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closetohumping

closetohumping 17470

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Criteria, you're starting from scratch so roster is not a factor and the one guarantee is  Goal is to win a title within four years.  Do you take anyone over Lebron?  Age does become a factor as you have a 4 year window.  This is fluid but I think I would be fine with saying:

KD

Kawhi

 

 

Not sure I'd go any further.  

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17470

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12 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Does contract status factor in?

Good question.  For this, let's say no.  You have to win a title within a four year period. You can pick any player in the NBA or college for that matter. Only guarantee is the player will be able to play every game over the last 4 years.  No fluke injuries.

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1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Criteria, you're starting from scratch so roster is not a factor and the one guarantee is  Goal is to win a title within four years.  Do you take anyone over Lebron?  Age does become a factor as you have a 4 year window.  This is fluid but I think I would be fine with saying:

KD

Kawhi

 

 

Not sure I'd go any further.  

Colin.

Sexton.

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aggie08

aggie08 21531

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1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Criteria, you're starting from scratch so roster is not a factor and the one guarantee is  Goal is to win a title within four years.  Do you take anyone over Lebron?  Age does become a factor as you have a 4 year window.  This is fluid but I think I would be fine with saying:

KD

Kawhi

 

 

Not sure I'd go any further.  

I'd take Beal or Westbrook. They're both better than Kawhi. Shit, imagine how many titles they'd win if they were on the same team?

/Dr. Beeper

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Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious 524

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1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Good question.  For this, let's say no.  You have to win a title within a four year period. You can pick any player in the NBA or college for that matter. Only guarantee is the player will be able to play every game over the last 4 years.  No fluke injuries.

Disagree about saying they absolutely play all games over 4 years.  Player health reliability has always been, and will continue to be a huge issue.  A big part of LeBron potentially being the top pick is because he can stay on the court vs guys like Kyrie, KD, or AD.  Those guys manage to keep getting dinged up, and that should absolutely factor into this type of decision.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19152

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4 years?

I think Lebron is about done honestly. 
I’d go with Embiid, Giannis, KD, Harden, Luka, Leonard, Joker, Curry. 
no one past that matters- that’s the list of guys that could, if things break their way, be the best guy on a title team over the next 4 years. I think Lebron is banged up this year, and age is catching up. He can’t be great for long enough anymore to win 16 games in the playoff is my guess. Maybe next year he has a chance, but asking him to be the best guy on a championship team in 23 or 24?  I just can’t see it. 
Now, I think you might rather have some guys like Beal or Trae or Ja, Mitchell, Porter Jr., etc than LBJ for the next 4 years if I’m right about him aging out, but those guy aren’t winning a title in the next 4 years as the best guy on a title team so I’m sticking with Lebron. 

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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10 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Disagree about saying they absolutely play all games over 4 years.  Player health reliability has always been, and will continue to be a huge issue.  A big part of LeBron potentially being the top pick is because he can stay on the court vs guys like Kyrie, KD, or AD.  Those guys manage to keep getting dinged up, and that should absolutely factor into this type of decision.

How’s Lebron’s health working out the last 3 seasons?  He’s old.  Shit happens.  The only two things that are undefeated are Father Time and that stuff that got Petrino in trouble.  I salute his career as one of the few people who can make a compelling argument as the best to ever lace them up.  He’ll play long enough to play with his son if that is something he really values.  I would take everyone on Wulaw’s list.  After that I’ll roll the dice with Lebron for the next few years.

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17470

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14 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

4 years?

I think Lebron is about done honestly. 
I’d go with Embiid, Giannis, KD, Harden, Luka, Leonard, Joker, Curry. 
no one past that matters- that’s the list of guys that could, if things break their way, be the best guy on a title team over the next 4 years. I think Lebron is banged up this year, and age is catching up. He can’t be great for long enough anymore to win 16 games in the playoff is my guess. Maybe next year he has a chance, but asking him to be the best guy on a championship team in 23 or 24?  I just can’t see it. 
Now, I think you might rather have some guys like Beal or Trae or Ja, Mitchell, Porter Jr., etc than LBJ for the next 4 years if I’m right about him aging out, but those guy aren’t winning a title in the next 4 years as the best guy on a title team so I’m sticking with Lebron. 

I would probably take Devin Booker over most of the bolded.  Trae and Mitchell to me are upgraded versions of guys like Francis or Marbury.  I do like Ja Morant, seems special.  Dame as well.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19152

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9 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I would probably take Devin Booker over most of this list.  Dame as well.

Look- those 2 are probably going to be better than Lebron over the next four years but I think it’s  beyond obvious neither of them is ever going to be the best player on a title team.  Dame has showed what his upside is and that’s a guy who can fuck around and beat a Russ Westbrook squad but is gonna get his ass swept by the warriors and be non competitive. harden had a punchers chance against that same squad that decimated Dame, as a for example.  Booker was a good stats on a bad team guy before Paul showed up and as much as I like his talent he doesn’t make enough other guys better to matter. I like both those guys they are just limited enough for me to take LBJ’s tail end of his career over either of them, even if he’s only got 1 more legit shot at a title. That’s 1 more shot than either of them have, imo. I could be wrong. 

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1652

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3 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Good question.  Your goal is to win as many championships within a four year period.  

The biggest question in my mind is how many more years can Lebron play at a meaningful level.  I took a peek at his career stats ( https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html ) and its freaky how consistent he's been. He's barely lost a step on the stat sheet. I was thinking I would see a clear decline, and it's really not there.

He's finishing season 18 now.  Can he stay at his current level for seasons 19-22.  He may be one of the GOAT, but I'd go with the odds and say no he won't be a factor over the next four years. Maybe next year, but the drop off is coming. So in my mind it's take Lebron and get 1 solid year or someone else for four.

To maximize my shot over four years, I'd pass on Lebron and take any of these guys to build around: Jokic, Embiid, Gannis, Zion, Curry, Luka, KD, Kawhi, or Gobert

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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to me KD is the safest answer, then Giannis/Curry/Jokic/Luka/Kawhi in some order. hell, maybe even that order. either way it's pretty close after KD. remember, people had started to swing towards the KD > LeBron sentiment before his achilles injury. he somehow looks like he hasn't lost a step. KD is the answer (if it's not LBJ), and then it's everyone else, imo. i'd probably take Jokic next, then Giannis or Luka. 

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Zeus

Zeus 6126

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Durant

Luka

Curry

That's right now, but really over the next 4 years there's going to be a bunch of players that are better to build around. The struggle is that Lebron really isn't a "build around" guy he's actually the recruiter himself. He will get talent to come and join him, so he's valuable in that guys will want to come play for your team once you have Lebron. Same can be said about KD and Curry probably, but not really Luka. Luka just looks like he's a very solid Dirk-ish type of player that you can surround with some guys and make a run.

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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On 6/1/2021 at 4:28 AM, ztejas said:

LeBron will be 40 in 4 years. So to answer your question - a lot of people. I'm not sure he's getting out of the first round this year. 

I thinks 40 year old lebron is still pretty good and will still have talent and IQ even with a drop in athleticism.    He’d have to change the way he plays and take on a different role.  I’d have to think he’d excel in a role similar to what draymond green does.  They’re roughly the same size and weight. Both passers and rebounders and can start a fast .  Lebron would have to be ok with someone else handling the ball the majority of the time.  
just tell him magic played the 4/5 towards the end of his career

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52598

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12 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I thinks 40 year old lebron is still pretty good and will still have talent and IQ even with a drop in athleticism.    He’d have to change the way he plays and take on a different role.  I’d have to think he’d excel in a role similar to what draymond green does.  They’re roughly the same size and weight. Both passers and rebounders and can start a fast .  Lebron would have to be ok with someone else handling the ball the majority of the time.  
just tell him magic played the 4/5 towards the end of his career

He might be as good as 40 year old Jordan. Which was above average at best most games iirc. 

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ztejas

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10 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

 

10:37pm - so right in the middle of them getting their asses kicked again. Game wasn't even over yet and we already have people coming our of the woodwork to protect LeBron's legacy. The LeBron stans loved talking about MJ's early playoff exits... now that LeBron has one I wonder what metric we're going to go by. 

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immortal13

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3 hours ago, ztejas said:

10:37pm - so right in the middle of them getting their asses kicked again. Game wasn't even over yet and we already have people coming our of the woodwork to protect LeBron's legacy. The LeBron stans loved talking about MJ's early playoff exits... now that LeBron has one I wonder what metric we're going to go by. 

LeBron has won with multiple teams!

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aggie08

aggie08 21531

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15 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

 

Only 5th in losses, but has a chance to take over #1 with a deep run next year. He needs 7 losses to surpass Fuck Derek Fisher for most all time. At least Fuck Derek Fisher has rings though; Karl Malone had been holding on to that top spot for some time before Fuck Derek Fisher came along.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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Building a team from scratch to win in the next four years:

KD, Jokic, Luka, Ja, AD all easily before Lebron. Probably put Giannis in that group, too. The stats may not have shown a big dip this year but if you watched him play it was clear he's declining. He always talks about being a smart player but it's curious how many bad turnovers he had against the Suns when he isn't the physical threat to just blow by or overpower whoever is guarding him. I'm actually not sure Lebron would be among my top 10 picks for the next four years. I kind of hate the guy but I'd probably take Harden over LBJ. Maybe Trae and Kyrie. Randle is a Dollar Tree version of Lebron but that might be better than the Buck and Buck version in years 2-4.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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if you were to name the 25-30 greatest perimeter players of all time, the very top of the list would feature players like Michael, Magic, Larry, Oscar, West, and LeBron. my question is this: if you were down by 2 with 0.00 left on the clock in a playoff elimination game, where would LBJ land on this list in regards to who you want taking two FTs with your season on the line? without even having this top 30 list fleshed out in front of me, i feel very confident that no more than 2-3 guys could possibly be ranked lower than LeBron. LBJ might be a top 5-10 player all time, but maybe the biggest reason that he will *never* be the GOAT is that he sucks at FTs, and is particularly terrible in crunch time/late game/playoff FTs. it's a huge flaw that doesn't get talked about seemingly at all. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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Watching Jordan dominate in the 90s you knew, absolutely knew, in clutch time he was going to make winning plays. The Bulls losing close games was always a surprise. Watching Lebron in clutch time you kind of think he gives his team an advantage but you don't have that same certainty that he is going to make a winning play.

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4028

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On 6/5/2021 at 7:14 PM, Llogg said:

Watching Jordan dominate in the 90s you knew, absolutely knew, in clutch time he was going to make winning plays. The Bulls losing close games was always a surprise. Watching Lebron in clutch time you kind of think he gives his team an advantage but you don't have that same certainty that he is going to make a winning play.

Lebron never had the advantage of crunch-time teammates like MJ did, namely Dick Bavetta and Bennett Salvatore…

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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my buddy randomly asked me the question in the OP a couple of nights ago, and after talking we both agreed it goes like this:

1.KD

 

 

sizable gap 

 

then there's a whole group of guys which includes Steph, LeBron, Jokic, Kawhi, Luka, and probably Harden, Embiid, and Giannis, and this group is difficult to sort out. for me, after KD i'm taking either Steph or Kawhi- gun to my head i'll say Steph, but i'm fine with either one. then probably Jokic, LeBron, Luka, Harden, Giannis, and Embiid. Harden being a choke artist/notorious partier and Embiid always being injured drops both guys down the list. 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

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On 6/5/2021 at 5:18 PM, shadow_operative said:

if you were to name the 25-30 greatest perimeter players of all time, the very top of the list would feature players like Michael, Magic, Larry, Oscar, West, and LeBron.

Like I said in the pickup-game-in-heaven thread, I'm not a Steph Curry fan, but doesn't he belong on that list at this point? 

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