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2021 NBA Offseason Thread: Business as Usual? -- Trades/Free Agency/Retirements/Etc.

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

Just another genius take from you.... we should celebrate an ignorant man doubling down his ignorance and further propagate misinformation about something that would save lives.  Good for him, indeed,

Jhawk
Jhawk

You have to understand that a vaccine that was developed in 6 months could warrant some hesitancy over a vaccine that was developed 60 years ago and has had trials upon trials upon trials. You can be

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

This post has no place on the basketball board and I'm furious at myself for even replying...  but if you think that MRNA vaccines were only been developed for 6 months and that's all the research beh

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21704

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Lakers are all in for the next few years. They will worry about the future later on. Those guys they are getting rid of are not huge factors to them winning a title right now. Washington did not get some haul if that is all they get for RW. 

That's it. Swing for the fences and see what happens. Who knows how it will work, but it could implode. It'll be fun to watch either way
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21704

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5 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

here it is

 

Too lazy to look it up, but the cupboard is going to be very empty as far as the draft is concerned for years.  But with AD as the centerpiece, and with the purple and gold, free agents will continue to be attracted to the City of Angels.  Draft picks are just assets.  And this franchise is about one thing.  Championships.  Second place is first place for losers.  If we get one more with this move, way more than worth it.  Even if it means 5 years of shitfulness.

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Kermit

Kermit 3128

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4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Too lazy to look it up, but the cupboard is going to be very empty as far as the draft is concerned for years.  But with AD as the centerpiece, and with the purple and gold, free agents will continue to be attracted to the City of Angels.  Draft picks are just assets.  And this franchise is about one thing.  Championships.  Second place is first place for losers.  If we get one more with this move, way more than worth it.  Even if it means 5 years of shitfulness.

Nothing screams championship pedigree like Russell Westbrook.

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4412

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2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Lakers are all in for the next few years. They will worry about the future later on. Those guys they are getting rid of are not huge factors to them winning a title right now. Washington did not get some haul if that is all they get for RW. 

WAS did better than HOU. We had to take Tank Commander Wall. WAS unloaded him for role players and a first rounder. 

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21704

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30 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Lakers just got worse

I disagree.  None of what we gave up is better than what Russ brings.  Let’s not forget that the Wiz were a pretty tough out the second half of the season last year and a playoff team.  He never fit on Houston, but that’s because Houston is a dysfunctional mess.  He makes the Lakers better.  I will take a healthy LBJ, AD, and Russ over KD, Harden, and Kyrie.  There’s too much hate on this site for the Lakers for objectivity, but if you have it, you’d likely agree.  2 top 5’s, 1 top 15.  And there will be a lot of vets who take a haircut to play with this group.  Mark my words.  They will fill this roster out nicely.  Cap penalty be damned.  We got the $$$.  Jeanie Buss DGAF.

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aggie08

aggie08 21414

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1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

2 top 5’s, 1 top 15

AD isn't a top 5 player. Russ hasn't been a top 15 player in a few years.

Russ is virtually useless on offense without the ball in his hands. I suppose the plan is to significantly decrease LeBron's ball-handling responsibilities?

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2620

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11 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I disagree.  None of what we gave up is better than what Russ brings.  Let’s not forget that the Wiz were a pretty tough out the second half of the season last year and a playoff team.  He never fit on Houston, but that’s because Houston is a dysfunctional mess.  He makes the Lakers better.  I will take a healthy LBJ, AD, and Russ over KD, Harden, and Kyrie.  There’s too much hate on this site for the Lakers for objectivity, but if you have it, you’d likely agree.  2 top 5’s, 1 top 15.  And there will be a lot of vets who take a haircut to play with this group.  Mark my words.  They will fill this roster out nicely.  Cap penalty be damned.  We got the $$$.  Jeanie Buss DGAF.

I can appreciate a good homer take, and this, well this is a gem. Lakers got much, much worse on defense with this move and did not improve much, if any, offensively. James is sliding down the hierarchy of elite every year from now on. Father time is undefeated. There were many times last year that James looked absolutely pedestrian.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21704

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38 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

AD isn't a top 5 player. Russ hasn't been a top 15 player in a few years.

Russ is virtually useless on offense without the ball in his hands. I suppose the plan is to significantly decrease LeBron's ball-handling responsibilities?

If you don’t think a healthy AD is a top5 player, the rest of your opinion is invalidated.

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6422

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43 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I disagree.  None of what we gave up is better than what Russ brings.  Let’s not forget that the Wiz were a pretty tough out the second half of the season last year and a playoff team.  He never fit on Houston, but that’s because Houston is a dysfunctional mess.  He makes the Lakers better.  I will take a healthy LBJ, AD, and Russ over KD, Harden, and Kyrie.  There’s too much hate on this site for the Lakers for objectivity, but if you have it, you’d likely agree.  2 top 5’s, 1 top 15.  And there will be a lot of vets who take a haircut to play with this group.  Mark my words.  They will fill this roster out nicely.  Cap penalty be damned.  We got the $$$.  Jeanie Buss DGAF.

lmao the only time he's been out of the first round in the past 5 years was the season he played for the dysfunctional mess.

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aggie08

aggie08 21414

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If you don’t think a healthy AD is a top5 player, the rest of your opinion is invalidated.

Wasn't really meant as a knock on AD. It's just a personal pet peeve when everyone (mostly talking heads) just casually spits out, "Such and such is a no doubt Top 5 player" for a dozen different guys. It's lazy. Here's 6 guys:

KD

LeBron

Giannis

Luka

Jokic

Steph

 

Even healthy, I'm not taking any of those guys out for AD, much less two of them.

Then you get into Kawhi and Embiid who at least have reasonable arguments over AD, and would probably be comfortably above if not for their own health question marks. Oh and there's Harden who is unquestionably better. League is deep at the top.

Edited by aggie08
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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If you don’t think a healthy AD is a top5 player, the rest of your opinion is invalidated.

a)AD's health is a huge factor in this, and B)LeBron, KD, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi, Luka, Steph and a few other players all might have something to say about AD being top 5- namely that he's no longer a top 5 player.

Edited by shadow_operative
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21704

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30 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

a)AD's health is a huge factor in this, and B)LeBron, KD, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Kawhi, Luka, Steph and a few other players all might have something to say about AD being top 5- namely that he's no longer a top 5 player.

Wrong.

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aggie08

aggie08 21414

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49 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Do you honestly believe a healthy AD is NOT a top 5 player?  Every GM in the NBA would disagree with you. 

Dude, stop. It's not some great insult to be the 7th or 8th player in league. There are currently 5 players in the league who have won championships as their team's best player. Between them, they have 12 titles, 9 MVPs and 9 Finals MVPs. All 5 have some prime years (okay, maybe year in LeBron's case) left.

When AD was the best player on his team...he beat Portland in the first round that one time.

None of those 5 guys is Luka or Jokic, who not a single GM would take over AD, even if you could guarantee AD's health. Most would take Harden too, depending on team make-up.

 

 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

Posted
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Do you honestly believe a healthy AD is NOT a top 5 player?  Every GM in the NBA would disagree with you. 

i seriously doubt that even five NBA gm's would name AD in their top five nba players. in fact i would confidently take the under. this delusional homerism at its worst.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

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also, stop saying "a healthy AD" over and over like it's a thing. that's like saying, "you seriously don't think every GM would want an 8-foot tall Luka????" health is part of a players value, and AD is one of the most injury prone stars in the league, and he's only getting older. his fragility plays into his value.

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aggie08

aggie08 21414

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24 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Dude, stop. It's not some great insult to be the 7th or 8th player in league. There are currently 5 players in the league who have won championships as their team's best player. Between them, they have 12 titles, 9 MVPs and 9 Finals MVPs.

Oh, and 3 DPOYs for shits and giggles.

 

Changing the subject, I actually like the Westbrook trade. I think the goal for the Lakers should be to play LeBron and AD as little as possible while still comfortably getting the 6 seed or better. Russ can bring the energy in January against Chicago, then (hopefully happily) transition to being a role player in the playoffs.

I think Hield makes them a more versatile, complete team, but Russ can do more to keep the big 2 fresh.

 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18523

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I can buy into AD being a top 5 player much more easily than I can Westbrook actually helping this team to a title. He plays losing, brain dead basketball and he can't space the floor at all. Not to mention that he's got two more years at $45 million per, one of the worst contracts in the league. 

Washington is the third team that has dumped that contract and only the Lakers were stupid enough to give up anything of perceived value back for him. KCP hit big shot after big shot in the finals. Kuzma is a young rotation guy on a reasonable deal. Harrell should have value at the trade deadline AND they threw in a first round pick. Usually a team like Washington would have to throw in picks or prospects and take back another terrible contract to get rid of him.

I'm floored. It's an unimaginably terrible move in today's NBA. 

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aggie08

aggie08 21414

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42 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I can buy into AD being a top 5 player much more easily than I can Westbrook actually helping this team to a title. He plays losing, brain dead basketball and he can't space the floor at all. Not to mention that he's got two more years at $45 million per, one of the worst contracts in the league. 

Washington is the third team that has dumped that contract and only the Lakers were stupid enough to give up anything of perceived value back for him. KCP hit big shot after big shot in the finals. Kuzma is a young rotation guy on a reasonable deal. Harrell should have value at the trade deadline AND they threw in a first round pick. Usually a team like Washington would have to throw in picks or prospects and take back another terrible contract to get rid of him.

I'm floored. It's an unimaginably terrible move in today's NBA. 

They're not going to miss Kuzma or Harrell, and they don't care about picks--though, you're right, that package should have netted them something better than the 2nd worst contract in the league which, the last time it was moved, required Westbrook's former team to take on the worst contract in the league.

It's an odd one for LeBron to sign off on after years of avoiding Melo like the plague.

Like I mentioned earlier, I like the deal from a regular season perspective, but, if they're expecting him to be a playoff difference maker, it's going to be a rude awakening.

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Reynolds Woodcock

Reynolds Woodcock 4658

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3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

They're not going to miss Kuzma or Harrell, and they don't care about picks--though, you're right, that package should have netted them something better than the 2nd worst contract in the league which, the last time it was moved, required Westbrook's former team to take on the worst contract in the league.

It's an odd one for LeBron to sign off on after years of avoiding Melo like the plague.

Like I mentioned earlier, I like the deal from a regular season perspective, but, if they're expecting him to be a playoff difference maker, it's going to be a rude awakening.

This is the key. Russ can really help them in the regular season when AD suffers his inevitable injuries and LeBron needs a breather because he's been in the league almost 20 fucking years. And he would be an excellent albeit overqualified 6th man in the playoffs to provide energy and scoring off the bench. But if he is on the floor in the last 5 minutes of a playoff game, it's almost guaranteed he will make more wrong decisions than right decisions.

 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18523

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12 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

They're not going to miss Kuzma or Harrell, and they don't care about picks--though, you're right, that package should have netted them something better than the 2nd worst contract in the league which, the last time it was moved, required Westbrook's former team to take on the worst contract in the league.

It's an odd one for LeBron to sign off on after years of avoiding Melo like the plague.

Like I mentioned earlier, I like the deal from a regular season perspective, but, if they're expecting him to be a playoff difference maker, it's going to be a rude awakening.

Who gives a shit about the regular season? Seedling means next to nothing in this conference and it's not like Westbrook is the difference between them making or missing the playoffs. And if he were, I'd say he's more likely to lead them to losses than wins with his special brand of stat stuffing loser ball. If they need guys to eat up minutes, they just gave up three of them who do just that for a physically declining 32 year old usage rate king who has spent the majority of his career getting by on his athleticism. You don't pay a guy $45 million per year to help you weather a Wednesday night road game in Minnesota in the middle of January. 

I just don't understand this move on any level. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2620

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7 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Russ going to LAL to chase a ring reminds that this was the 2017 OKC Thunder:

G- Russ

G- Victor Oladipo

F- Jerami Grant

F- Damontas Sabonis

C- Steven Adams

 

imagine if it was CP3 and not Russ "leading" that team. instead they blew it all up to bring in Playoff P. that's embarrassing to look back at. 

Imagine replacing Russ with CP3 in 2015. Or replacing Russ with Harden in 2015. Or replacing Russ with Rajon fucking Rondo in 2015.

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aggie08

aggie08 21414

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9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Who gives a shit about the regular season? Seedling means next to nothing in this conference and it's not like Westbrook is the difference between them making or missing the playoffs. And if he were, I'd say he's more likely to lead them to losses than wins with his special brand of stat stuffing loser ball. If they need guys to eat up minutes, they just gave up three of them who do just that for a physically declining 32 year old usage rate king who has spent the majority of his career getting by on his athleticism. You don't pay a guy $45 million per year to help you weather a Wednesday night road game in Minnesota in the middle of January. 

I just don't understand this move on any level. 

Another week or two without LeBron and/or AD, and they wouldn't have made the playoffs last year. They were extremely lucky to have them both healthy for the play-in. LeBron is 37; AD is AD  If I'm the Lakers, I'm planning at least 20 rest nights for each, plus whatever they miss to injury.

To your point, there had to be better, cheaper, more stylistically flexible players out there who could help run a regular season offense.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I can buy into AD being a top 5 player much more easily than I can Westbrook actually helping this team to a title. He plays losing, brain dead basketball and he can't space the floor at all. Not to mention that he's got two more years at $45 million per, one of the worst contracts in the league. 

Washington is the third team that has dumped that contract and only the Lakers were stupid enough to give up anything of perceived value back for him. KCP hit big shot after big shot in the finals. Kuzma is a young rotation guy on a reasonable deal. Harrell should have value at the trade deadline AND they threw in a first round pick. Usually a team like Washington would have to throw in picks or prospects and take back another terrible contract to get rid of him.

I'm floored. It's an unimaginably terrible move in today's NBA. 

The KCP move will hurt the most IMO.   He defended the best wing players and did a decent job.   He also didn't demand the ball but hit big time shots when they needed him to do so.    Harrell never really fit honestly and Kuzma seems to be a little slow in the head.   While I dont necessarily mind the Lakers getting Russ as it does take some wear off LBJ during the reg season, giving that package up to get him when they could've been used to get more is the problem for me. 

Its pretty clear LBJ convinced them to say fuck the tax and they will spend as much as they want.    I suspect they will S&T Schoeder (maybe for Derozen) for another relatively big salary player, use their MLE and then fill the roster out with vet guys trying to get a ring.    It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Edited by d2o
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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

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Who gives a shit about the regular season? Seedling means next to nothing in this conference and it's not like Westbrook is the difference between them making or missing the playoffs. And if he were, I'd say he's more likely to lead them to losses than wins with his special brand of stat stuffing loser ball. If they need guys to eat up minutes, they just gave up three of them who do just that for a physically declining 32 year old usage rate king who has spent the majority of his career getting by on his athleticism. You don't pay a guy $45 million per year to help you weather a Wednesday night road game in Minnesota in the middle of January. 
I just don't understand this move on any level. 

Keep the Timberwolves out of this…it’s unnecessary
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UTDD

UTDD 362

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I really am not a fan of this trade for the Lakers.  I have always respected Westbrook's motor/effort, but I don't think he's a good fit at all. 

I'll try and put the best spin on it with a few ways.  Maybe Westbrook can let LeBron rest a lot more during the regular season, although I don't think Westbrook is a good passer/decision maker (I know he has a lot of assists, but he turns it over a lot too) and a gigantic drop off from LeBron.  (still one of the best passers in the game today)  LeBron would benefit best from more shooters and a great decision maker to take the load off him at PG.  (Schroder/Westbrook ain't it -- a healthy Rondo was decent for spot duty, someone like that, etc.)  I just can't get past how poorly Westbrook shoots from 3/charity stripe, and some other inefficient areas of his game. 

I think the best hope for the Lakers is that Westbrook meshes well with/motivates AD, because to me the Lakers true chances to win a title rest on a healthy AD being a superstar player, not just really good.  I think he's the only one that can elevate to another level if healthy/motivated.  He's got to clearly shove control of the team from LeBron as it's not realistic at this point that LeBron can even replicate say a 2018 Finals Game 1 type of performance when it comes playoff time, etc.  Despite Westbrook's inefficient basketball play, I'd take Westbrook's effort and motor ten times out of ten over AD, so maybe he can rub off on AD a little.  So I guess the hope is better team chemistry, some nice vet minimums?  I think it's going to be entertaining for sure, but Brooklyn's pieces fit better to me.    

 

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