2021 NBA Offseason Thread: Business as Usual? -- Trades/Free Agency/Retirements/Etc.

[aggie08 21,800]

9 hours ago, BradInATX said:

They turned chicken salad into shittier chicken salad

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
 

Wut? Turning John Wall into a six pack of Natty Light would have been impressive. Getting anything resembling competent pieces is amazing.

[Fastbreak 4,049]

The Wiz now have:

Dinwiddie
Beal
Kuzma
Gafford
Hachimura
Bryant
KCP
Avidja
Bertans
Montrez
Kispert
Holiday

I think that’s a playoff team. Maybe even a non-play in team.

[d2o 1,603]

7 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

The Wiz now have:

Dinwiddie
Beal
Kuzma
Gafford
Hachimura
Bryant
KCP
Avidja
Bertans
Montrez
Kispert
Holiday

I think that’s a playoff team. Maybe even a non-play in team.

Not sure why you think that.   Play-in maybe

[SilasCoade 2,622]

48 minutes ago, d2o said:

Not sure why you think that.   Play-in maybe

I don't know. I'd say it depends on how Dinwiddie is coming off the injury and whether Kuzma can be a consistent 3rd option.

[Vic Mackey 47,959]

[Fastbreak 4,049]

I thought about it more. The East is pretty rough

Tier 1 (lock as a top 3 seed)

Nets

Bucks

 

Tier 2 (lock as a 3-6 seed)

Hawks

Heat

Sixers*

 

Tier 3 (fighting to stay out of play-in)

Celtics

Bulls

Knicks

 

Tier 4 (fighting for play-in)

Hornets

Raps

Pacers

Wiz

Tier 5 (no chance)

Magic

Cavs

Pistons

[Kermit 3,162]

12 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

He’s going to be out of the league in 10 years because his knees will give out. The young man is physically gifted, but the way he plays, the weight he carries on his frame, and his injury history do not project longevity. 

[SilasCoade 2,622]

12 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

I thought about it more. The East is pretty rough

Tier 1 (lock as a top 3 seed)

Nets

Bucks

 

Tier 2 (lock as a 3-6 seed)

Hawks

Heat

Sixers*

 

Tier 3 (fighting to stay out of play-in)

Celtics

Bulls

Knicks

 

Tier 4 (fighting for play-in)

Hornets

Raps

Pacers

Wiz

Tier 5 (no chance)

Magic

Cavs

Pistons

Not sure that I agree with your Tier 2 as locks. I would lump tier 2 and 3 together as "probably making the playoffs but seeding totally up in the air". I just don't see a ton of separation among those teams. The Sixers have the best individual player but are a potential implosion. The Heat will go as far as Bam can take them really b/c Butler's on the wrong side of his physical peak. Bulls are an unknown b/c they've really remade their roster but could be pretty good. Knicks and Hawks both fall into the same boat for me: was last season a sign of things to come or a mirage? The Celtics did nothing to really get better this off season so their ceiling is the individual improvement of their core trio of Smart, Brown, and Tatum.

[d2o 1,603]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:47 PM, Vic Mackey said:

Starbury is off his meds

[Vic Mackey 47,959]

He's not wrong.

[aggie08 21,800]

Based on...what, exactly? I'm certainly no Kyrie or Harden fan, but they mow through Milwaukee if Kyrie stays healthy, much less if they have all 3 stars healthy.

[d2o 1,603]

25 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Based on...what, exactly? I'm certainly no Kyrie or Harden fan, but they mow through Milwaukee if Kyrie stays healthy, much less if they have all 3 stars healthy.

Kyrie is much more proven playoff performer than Harden IMO.  KD + Kyrie >  KD + Harden.     I'm not sure how this trading Kyrie stuff got started anyway.    They would be stupid to do that.

[Patrick Bateman 3,980]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Kyrie is much more proven playoff performer than Harden IMO.  KD + Kyrie >  KD + Harden.     I'm not sure how this trading Kyrie stuff got started anyway.    They would be stupid to do that.

Because a click bait asshole decided to tweet something stupid and ridiculous and now everyone is trying to make it a thing.  Nick Wright is a moron, especially about basketball.  KD specifically wanted to play with Kyrie, for better or worse, as his #2.... now they got Harden.  If they all stay healthy, they destroy the East and best the West in 5-6 games.  Health is the only question.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

He's not wrong.

they could definitely win it without Kyrie. the Nets sans-Kyrie are still as good as/better than title winning teams like the Raptors and Bucks. I do still question Harden's ability to win in the playoffs, but BK Harden has been a completely different player than he was in Houston, and with KD by his side they could for sure still win one without Kyrie.

[d2o 1,603]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Because a click bait asshole decided to tweet something stupid and ridiculous and now everyone is trying to make it a thing.  Nick Wright is a moron, especially about basketball.  KD specifically wanted to play with Kyrie, for better or worse, as his #2.... now they got Harden.  If they all stay healthy, they destroy the East and best the West in 5-6 games.  Health is the only question.

Completely agree with this part.   Dude is horrible.   No wonder I knew nothing about it.   Errbody on Fox Sports blows.   I refuse to watch a second of their programming.

[Js1 87,183]

JJ Reddick retired this morning. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,980]

So...... yea.  Leverage seems to be slipping away.

 

[aggie08 21,800]

It's almost like having your head coach publicly blaming a premature playoff loss almost solely on one player and questioning whether they want him back is a bad idea.

Ben Simmons deserves plenty of blame here, but that was some pretty low class shit that Doc pulled, and they get no sympathy whatsoever for losing any leverage that they originally held.

[HookEm 2,509]

Of course the Nets could win without Kyrie. Because if they traded Kyrie they would get something good in return.  

The Nets could win a title with any of these lineups:

• Damian Lillard + James Harden + Joe Harris + Kevin Durant + L. Aldridge
• Ben Simmons + James Harden + Joe Harris + Kevin Durant + L. Aldridge
• De'Aaron Fox + James Harden + Joe Harris + Kevin Durant + Tristan Thompson 
• Patty Mills + James Harden + Joe Harris + Kevin Durant + Nikoli Vucevic 
• James Harden + Joe Harris + TJ Warren + Kevin Durant + Myles Turner
• James Harden + Paul George + Joe Harris + Kevin Durant + L. Aldridge
• James Harden + Joe Harris + Brandon Ingram + Kevin Durant + L. Aldridge

Not that any of the above trades are strategic in any way, but the salaries fit.

[Kermit 3,162]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

It's almost like having your head coach publicly blaming a premature playoff loss almost solely on one player and questioning whether they want him back is a bad idea.

Ben Simmons deserves plenty of blame here, but that was some pretty low class shit that Doc pulled, and they get no sympathy whatsoever for losing any leverage that they originally held.

Not even in the top 10 of Doc Rivers’ mistakes ( #1 obviously Austin ). The whole thing is hilarious and I hope they fine the shit out of him.

[Jhawk 1,075]

Simmons is still owed on 4 years. If the owners get 1 thing in the next CBA they need to get a rule that states if a player sits out they don’t count against the salary cap. Even better would be the option to terminate the contract while retaining rights for a year or two if the player just says “I won’t play here anymore.”

It will never come close to happening but the 76ers should just say “ok”. Then fine him the entire amount of his contract and sit him on moth balls for 4 years. Then he can play for $4M his first year back at age 29-30. That being said, I’ve read/heard that Simmons just doesn’t really LOVE basketball (like Wiggins). Maybe he got his $56M thus far and is at the point where he is only going to play 100% under his terms and conditions or he will step away. 
 

The situation is a mess.

[Patrick Bateman 3,980]

 

[Murfdogg21 4,563]

Is this part of the process?

[Message Board User 12,405]

5 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

So...... yea.  Leverage seems to be slipping away.

 

So instead of 7 first round picks in exchange for Simmons, Morey will ask for 6.

[Jhawk 1,075]

Seriously... where in the world does he fit on the warriors? They going to make him the next igoudala? Dump Wiggins and maybe wiseman for him? I get that the warriors like to experiment and would be fine with him on the roster, but they will also be fine without him on the roster. Why fix something that hasn’t proven to be broken unless they really think taking the ball out of curry’s hands is the future of their franchise. 

[d2o 1,603]

3 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Seriously... where in the world does he fit on the warriors? They going to make him the next igoudala? Dump Wiggins and maybe wiseman for him? I get that the warriors like to experiment and would be fine with him on the roster, but they will also be fine without him on the roster. Why fix something that hasn’t proven to be broken unless they really think taking the ball out of curry’s hands is the future of their franchise. 

They will make him the next Draymond actually.   He actually has all of the same skills as Draymond with infinitely more athletic ability but a lot less leadership qualities.    I dont agree with them giving up on Wiseman but I will say despite all this criticism Simmons has taken (some of it warranted) I think that whoever gets him will get a very good piece for them moving forward.

[Message Board User 12,405]

34 minutes ago, d2o said:

He actually has all of the same skills as Draymond

While Dray ain't exactly Craig Hodges from downtown, he can at least hit about 30% of his 3s. 

Simmons, on the other hand, has hit five count 'em five 3s in his career.  So not exactly the same skills...

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Ben Simmons is lazy and only cares about being a celebrity.

[Murfdogg21 4,563]

How can someone who is 6’11 and makes over $30M/yr not go out in the driveway and learn to shoot at least 25% from 3?

[PittsburghTiger 6,344]

I think about $150,000,000 remains on the Simmons contract

[PittsburghTiger 6,344]

39 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Ben Simmons is lazy and only cares about being a celebrity.

 

4 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

How can someone who is 6’11 and makes over $30M/yr not go out in the driveway and learn to shoot at least 25% from 3?

I think Loch Ness preemptively answered your question.

[Jhawk 1,075]

3 hours ago, d2o said:

They will make him the next Draymond actually.   He actually has all of the same skills as Draymond with infinitely more athletic ability but a lot less leadership qualities.    I dont agree with them giving up on Wiseman but I will say despite all this criticism Simmons has taken (some of it warranted) I think that whoever gets him will get a very good piece for them moving forward.

But if he can’t accept anything less than a coddled superstar socialite role then why would he ever accept arguably underpaid 3rd man of a big 3 but 4-5th scoring option role? Further, if that is the plan, to replace draymond, don’t you think draymond has the potential to become the most toxic player in the league? Dray still has up to 4 years on his contract and he is ego driven enough to fuck things up just as bad as Simmons if his role is threatened.  It just doesn’t make sense to me and you don’t need him and Simmons on the court at the same time.

 

once again, the warriors haven’t proven to have a broken system yet. Why bring in a bigger diva (don’t get me wrong, dray is a diva but one that cares about winning and not celeb status) to replace a real locker room leader? Unless Kerr feels insecure there isn’t really a reason to blow things up for another year or two. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Jhawk

[Serak The Preparer 3,484]

3 hours ago, d2o said:

They will make him the next Draymond actually.   He actually has all of the same skills as Draymond with infinitely more athletic ability but a lot less leadership qualities.    I dont agree with them giving up on Wiseman but I will say despite all this criticism Simmons has taken (some of it warranted) I think that whoever gets him will get a very good piece for them moving forward.

What criticism of Simmons isn't warranted?

[SilasCoade 2,622]

I can't think of any team that gets demonstrably better with Simmons if they have to give up their second best player to get him. If PHI is willing to just take picks, then maybe somebody bites.

[d2o 1,603]

9 hours ago, Jhawk said:

But if he can’t accept anything less than a coddled superstar socialite role then why would he ever accept arguably underpaid 3rd man of a big 3 but 4-5th scoring option role? Further, if that is the plan, to replace draymond, don’t you think draymond has the potential to become the most toxic player in the league? Dray still has up to 4 years on his contract and he is ego driven enough to fuck things up just as bad as Simmons if his role is threatened.  It just doesn’t make sense to me and you don’t need him and Simmons on the court at the same time.

 

once again, the warriors haven’t proven to have a broken system yet. Why bring in a bigger diva (don’t get me wrong, dray is a diva but one that cares about winning and not celeb status) to replace a real locker room leader? Unless Kerr feels insecure there isn’t really a reason to blow things up for another year or two. 

Well, the thought that I've seen is them trading Draymond in the deal not having both on that roster at the same time.    Its risky as hell obviously but I can at least see what they would be trying to do.

[d2o 1,603]

13 hours ago, Message Board User said:

While Dray ain't exactly Craig Hodges from downtown, he can at least hit about 30% of his 3s. 

Simmons, on the other hand, has hit five count 'em five 3s in his career.  So not exactly the same skills...

Meh, he doesn't shoot them.  Big whoop.   

[Jhawk 1,075]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

Well, the thought that I've seen is them trading Draymond in the deal not having both on that roster at the same time.    Its risky as hell obviously but I can at least see what they would be trying to do.

I think trading dray is a trade he makes you regret honestly. And if it doesn’t go well you expedite the break up of the franchise. That being said, the franchise might be 2-3 years away anyway with multiple teams standing in the way in the west so maybe just get on with it? The warriors also aren’t afraid of experimentation so maybe they make the move. They certainly shouldn’t if they have to give away draft capital though. 
 

My thought is the knicks... they could trade rose and Fournier straight up and pair Simmons with randle and kemba. They also have a lot of draft picks between now and 2026 though most are 2nd rounders and protected. I think there are some restrictions on rose but maybe there is a way around it? That could make both teams better. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,980]

15 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Seriously... where in the world does he fit on the warriors? They going to make him the next igoudala? Dump Wiggins and maybe wiseman for him? I get that the warriors like to experiment and would be fine with him on the roster, but they will also be fine without him on the roster. Why fix something that hasn’t proven to be broken unless they really think taking the ball out of curry’s hands is the future of their franchise. 

The issue with this, is Philly's 2 best players play the same general position as Wiseman and Wiggins.  Wiggins not as much as he can play a few positions, but he's terrible and would be in the trade for money purposes.  Wiseman is the issue, Embiid doesn't really want more traffic when he posts or ISO's.  He's not really a natural fit and would push Harris to a 3, when Philly probably is best running him as a small ball 4.  They need shooters and a creator if they're moving Simmons.  So while I get why folks would say the Warriors because they just look at the players they could move and maybe Philly doesn't really care about how the pieces fit, they just want pieces, but they would probably need another trade.  A 3 team deal may make more sense.  The other issue is..... Wiggins sucks.

I guess he only has 2 years left, but 65m for a guy who finally maxed out as an average player.  No thanks.  

[Blotto 24,021]

 

12 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

How can someone who is 6’11 and makes over $30M/yr not go out in the driveway and learn to shoot at least 25% from 3?

or greater than 60% FT's. He's a great athlete, not a great basketball player and imo not nearly worth the contract the sixers gave him. Certainly not the only player with a horrible contract in the league.  

[Jhawk 1,075]

38 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

The issue with this, is Philly's 2 best players play the same general position as Wiseman and Wiggins.  Wiggins not as much as he can play a few positions, but he's terrible and would be in the trade for money purposes.  Wiseman is the issue, Embiid doesn't really want more traffic when he posts or ISO's.  He's not really a natural fit and would push Harris to a 3, when Philly probably is best running him as a small ball 4.  They need shooters and a creator if they're moving Simmons.  So while I get why folks would say the Warriors because they just look at the players they could move and maybe Philly doesn't really care about how the pieces fit, they just want pieces, but they would probably need another trade.  A 3 team deal may make more sense.  The other issue is..... Wiggins sucks.

I guess he only has 2 years left, but 65m for a guy who finally maxed out as an average player.  No thanks.  

Wiggins is going to be cheap in 3 years when the new media deal is done. I also don’t have love for Wiggins even though he is a KU guy. His heart just isn’t in the game. But maybe playing with embiid, who he played with at KU, could light a fire under him? I still don’t like the move and think it is just shuffling pieces to shuffle pieces and no one gets better out of it. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,980]

Never change, Minny..... never change.

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,984]

Fwiw from 55 followers guy

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,984]

Well he called it 6 weeks ago

[Patrick Bateman 3,980]

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Fwiw from 55 followers guy
 

Fucking awesome!!!!  I love the TWolves.

[Kermit 3,162]

Lock your door, Rosas.

[SilasCoade 2,622]

how are there no pics of assistant? surly be slipping.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,984]

Yea it’s been confirmed by a twin cities sports reporter that Rosas had an inappropriate relationship.

[ztejas 44,227]

Minnesota might be the worst professional sports franchise in America. They needed prime fucking Kevin Garnett just to win a playoff series. 

[Murfdogg21 4,563]

24 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Yea it’s been confirmed by a twin cities sports reporter that Rosas had an inappropriate relationship.

Hope she wasn’t overly aggressive with those healthy chompers. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,984]

Minnesota might be the worst professional sports franchise in America. They needed prime fucking Kevin Garnett just to win a playoff series. 

We needed Latrell and Sam cassel because KG had like 7 straight first round exits.


You’re not that far off of it being the worst pro sports franchise. That’s what makes it fun. If you were just the Spurs, Lakers, patriots, then the fun is gone