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2021 NBA Offseason Thread: Business as Usual? -- Trades/Free Agency/Retirements/Etc.

Patrick Bateman

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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946349-nba-draft-week-brings-urgency-to-trade-talks-latest-ben-simmons-buzz

 

The Simmons Market

Cleveland, Indiana, Minnesota, Sacramento and Toronto all showed interest in acquiring the runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year, sources said. Multiple executives from those teams, when contacted by B/R, mentioned their excitement at incorporating Simmons as a play-making forward—not at the point guard position he's played in Philadelphia.

But one problem: there has not been an All-Star-caliber player made available that Morey and his staff have had strong interest in moving Simmons for, sources said.

Time is on Philadelphia's side. The Sixers are not required to trade Simmons, although the overwhelming expectation around the league is that he will be moved before the 2021-22 season tips. That could occur in August; team executives are anxiously awaiting Damian Lillard's return from the Tokyo Olympics, and a potential trade request that could occur if the All-Star guard doesn't endorse Portland's offseason roster adjustments.

"I think Daryl is just waiting for the Dame situation to explode," said one team official.

Beal's potential availability has sparked significant discussion among league personnel, but there appears to be less confidence Lillard will seek a different team prior to training camp. Warriors officials have expressed doubt Lillard would eye Golden State as a destination.

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Michael Knight

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53 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946349-nba-draft-week-brings-urgency-to-trade-talks-latest-ben-simmons-buzz

 

The Simmons Market

Cleveland, Indiana, Minnesota, Sacramento and Toronto all showed interest in acquiring the runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year, sources said. Multiple executives from those teams, when contacted by B/R, mentioned their excitement at incorporating Simmons as a play-making forward—not at the point guard position he's played in Philadelphia.

But one problem: there has not been an All-Star-caliber player made available that Morey and his staff have had strong interest in moving Simmons for, sources said.

Time is on Philadelphia's side. The Sixers are not required to trade Simmons, although the overwhelming expectation around the league is that he will be moved before the 2021-22 season tips. That could occur in August; team executives are anxiously awaiting Damian Lillard's return from the Tokyo Olympics, and a potential trade request that could occur if the All-Star guard doesn't endorse Portland's offseason roster adjustments.

"I think Daryl is just waiting for the Dame situation to explode," said one team official.

Beal's potential availability has sparked significant discussion among league personnel, but there appears to be less confidence Lillard will seek a different team prior to training camp. Warriors officials have expressed doubt Lillard would eye Golden State as a destination.

live look at the simmons market

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d2o

d2o 1602

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On 7/24/2021 at 3:08 PM, Message Board User said:

Agreed....if the Wiz is in rebuilding mode (which I think they should be and this is a deep draft).

But if they're intent on chasing the 7 or 8 seed then they'll either try to appease Beal or trade him for a guy like Simmons.

Simmons and Russ........together??   

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d2o

d2o 1602

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On 7/24/2021 at 6:12 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Honest question, does another high volume scoring guard move the needle for GS?  Especially if Klay is back 

I've been wondering this every single time GSW is mentioned as the front runner for Beal/Dame

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d2o

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28 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I can't imagine Russ is a Wizard for a long time..... maybe another year but I think he ends up getting moved at some point.

For sure Russ will be gone from there soon but if they get Simmons it would have to be immediate.    They should not play one single second together.

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Patrick Bateman

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19 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Why Memphis?

 

14 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Holy fuck that's an amazing trade even with all of the picks for NO. What is Memphis thinking?

They must really like someone in the top 10 this year plus they get another first next year.  Bledsoe only has a partial guarantee beyond this year so they may be able to turn around and sell him if he doesn't rebound.  I'm going to guess they didn't think they could re-sign Jonas after next year so they get some certainty with Adams deal at 17m and probably think Valanciunas deal ends up bigger.  So cost certainty and moving up this year and a first next year for taking on Bledsoe's deal.  I'll assume they try to flip him eventually or just have him be the bench perimeter scorer off the bench.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2620

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10 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

They must really like someone in the top 10 this year plus they get another first next year.  Bledsoe only has a partial guarantee beyond this year so they may be able to turn around and sell him if he doesn't rebound.  I'm going to guess they didn't think they could re-sign Jonas after next year so they get some certainty with Adams deal at 17m and probably think Valanciunas deal ends up bigger.  So cost certainty and moving up this year and a first next year for taking on Bledsoe's deal.  I'll assume they try to flip him eventually or just have him be the bench perimeter scorer off the bench.

The question is not whether they can get someone equal to valanciunas at ten but whether they could have gotten someone better than Adams at 17. I'm a big fan of Steven Adams and think he sacrificed a lot to make Westbrook look good, but he does not fit with this Memphis team. Memphis got worse in the present without a clear upside for the future. Dumb dumb dumb.

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Patrick Bateman

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54 minutes ago, Llogg said:

The question is not whether they can get someone equal to valanciunas at ten but whether they could have gotten someone better than Adams at 17. I'm a big fan of Steven Adams and think he sacrificed a lot to make Westbrook look good, but he does not fit with this Memphis team. Memphis got worse in the present without a clear upside for the future. Dumb dumb dumb.

Maybe.  Or maybe they feel like another year of Valaniunas + 17 doesn't truly improve them enough to be serious contenders and really want something in the top 10.  MBU already posted something which sort of plays into this strategy.  If they think they can get in the top 7-8 because they can get a difference maker in the draft vs probably just a contributor then it may be worth it for them.  I'm not saying I make the move, but I like that it's a different thought process then, "am I giving up the better or worse big guy, in his late 20's for a year".  They may want to play Clarke and Tillman more next to Jackson to play a different style with having a big banger off the bench as well.  I would say it's definitely a risk, but getting truly better sometimes requires risk.  It could definitely go south on them.  I understand your point of view too.  Obviously can't really judge the trade until the draft picks present themselves.  Maybe Pelicans get the best player in the draft at 17.  Doubtful, but possible and in that case, then the Grizz lose bad.

Not a huge fan of Bledsoe, but with Milwaukee he was an above average player.  He's almost 32 now so it will be interesting to see if the fit was bad in NO (it was) and if he ultimately stays with Memphis.

 

 

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ztejas

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1 hour ago, Llogg said:

The question is not whether they can get someone equal to valanciunas at ten but whether they could have gotten someone better than Adams at 17. I'm a big fan of Steven Adams and think he sacrificed a lot to make Westbrook look good, but he does not fit with this Memphis team. Memphis got worse in the present without a clear upside for the future. Dumb dumb dumb.

This. Joval is a top 10 center. Bledsoe is literally one of the worst players in the NBA for his contract. Even if they dump him in 2022 they still get hit for 19M this year and 4M next. Adams is fine but his contract isn't great either.

If they are trying to move up again then maybe it works out but no one is ever a guarantee in the draft - and even good picks usually take a few years to contribute. 

This seems like a really good way to waste Ja's rookie contract - Memphis almost made the playoffs last year and we just came off a season where the title was wide fucking open.  

That Lakers pick is going to be what - 25 or 26? That and #10 is decent upside but not a guarantee for anything.

Plus - New Orleans is IN THEIR DIVISON! And they just transformed that team's entire outlook. Nola was going to be desperate to do anything to hang on to Zion and you just let them dump their two worst contracts (that I pointed out were their worst contract months ago - anyone could see it) and handed them the 2nd best player on your team for a year. 

This has the chance to be like all-time bad. If Nola can make the playoffs this season with a totally transformed roster and end up resigning Zion... I mean... wow. This is just bad by Memphis. Like continuing to play blackjack when you're down 5 grand on the night.

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1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If they think they can get in the top 7-8 because they can get a difference maker in the draft vs probably just a contributor then it may be worth it for them. 

Yeah after seeing the Cavs tinker at the margins during Lebron's 03-10 years I actually applaud Memphis for trying to capitalize on perhaps their one and only chance to add a true #2 to Ja.  Could it blow up in their face?  Maybe.  Are they taking on bad salary?  Absolutely...but it's just for the next 2 season so it's not like we're talking the john wall contract.  But standing pat and hoping that they draft the next Giannis or Kawhi or Jimmy Buckets at 17 as a running mate is just not a viable or realistic strategy.

The Grizz brass recognizes that Memphis is not a FA destination and they're just good enough (with Ja) to probably not get a top 10 pick in the next few years, and even if they did, next year's draft is ass my dude.

As for NOLA, I guess this move allows the team to give Lonzo an extension (yay?) and may lead to a few more wins in 21-22...but how many more?  Does this team sniff 45 wins next season?

Lonzo

??

Ingram

Zion

Jonas V

The Pelicans were among the worst teams shooting the 3 and defending the 3 and this move doesn't really help them in this area (spare me the nonsense that Jonas V is a floor-spacer - he shot less than one 3 per game last season).

It's kind of funny that griffin signs Adams to an extension in the Fall...and then has to give up assets to move Adams.  Same thing he did in Cleveland - blowing through the assets that Chris grant accumulated like it was coke at Studio 54.  I know that being the middle-man between Dan Gilbert on one side and Lebron/Rich Paul on the other couldn't have been easy but this reputation of roster-building genius that Griffin seems to have developed just seems unearned.

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ztejas

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12 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Yeah after seeing the Cavs tinker at the margins during Lebron's 03-10 years I actually applaud Memphis for trying to capitalize on perhaps their one and only chance to add a true #2 to Ja.  Could it blow up in their face?  Maybe.  Are they taking on bad salary?  Absolutely...but it's just for the next 2 season so it's not like we're talking the john wall contract.  But standing pat and hoping that they draft the next Giannis or Kawhi or Jimmy Buckets at 17 as a running mate is just not a viable or realistic strategy.

The Grizz brass recognizes that Memphis is not a FA destination and they're just good enough (with Ja) to probably not get a top 10 pick in the next few years, and even if they did, next year's draft is ass my dude.

As for NOLA, I guess this move allows the team to give Lonzo an extension (yay?) and may lead to a few more wins in 21-22...but how many more?  Does this team sniff 45 wins next season?

Lonzo

??

Ingram

Zion

Jonas V

The Pelicans were among the worst teams shooting the 3 and defending the 3 and this move doesn't really help them in this area (spare me the nonsense that Jonas V is a floor-spacer - he shot less than one 3 per game last season).

It's kind of funny that griffin signs Adams to an extension in the Fall...and then has to give up assets to move Adams.  Same thing he did in Cleveland - blowing through the assets that Chris grant accumulated like it was coke at Studio 54.  I know that being the middle-man between Dan Gilbert on one side and Lebron/Rich Paul on the other couldn't have been easy but this reputation of roster-building genius that Griffin seems to have developed just seems unearned.

Totally misread your comment - my bad.*

I'm not saying it won't work out for Memphis - and it isn't necessarily a bad idea by Memphis - but the problem is that they just solved basically all of New Orleans biggest issues. 

You never, ever do that. This is like NBA GMing 101 stuff. Memphis was better than New Orleans last year - they are now on paper probably 12 games worse. Even if it's just for the next 2 seasons that's a tough pill to swallow.

There is an outside chance that this results in Ja leaving after his rookie deal and Zion resigning in New Orleans. You just can't make trades like that. 

Memphis is chasing low-end probabilities and at the same time mortgaging off their immediate future. Maybe it works - but playing that game is really dangerous. 

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BigOrange1

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25 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Yeah after seeing the Cavs tinker at the margins during Lebron's 03-10 years I actually applaud Memphis for trying to capitalize on perhaps their one and only chance to add a true #2 to Ja.  Could it blow up in their face?  Maybe.  Are they taking on bad salary?  Absolutely...but it's just for the next 2 season so it's not like we're talking the john wall contract.  But standing pat and hoping that they draft the next Giannis or Kawhi or Jimmy Buckets at 17 as a running mate is just not a viable or realistic strategy.

The Grizz brass recognizes that Memphis is not a FA destination and they're just good enough (with Ja) to probably not get a top 10 pick in the next few years, and even if they did, next year's draft is ass my dude.

As for NOLA, I guess this move allows the team to give Lonzo an extension (yay?) and may lead to a few more wins in 21-22...but how many more?  Does this team sniff 45 wins next season?

Lonzo

??

Ingram

Zion

Jonas V

The Pelicans were among the worst teams shooting the 3 and defending the 3 and this move doesn't really help them in this area (spare me the nonsense that Jonas V is a floor-spacer - he shot less than one 3 per game last season).

It's kind of funny that griffin signs Adams to an extension in the Fall...and then has to give up assets to move Adams.  Same thing he did in Cleveland - blowing through the assets that Chris grant accumulated like it was coke at Studio 54.  I know that being the middle-man between Dan Gilbert on one side and Lebron/Rich Paul on the other couldn't have been easy but this reputation of roster-building genius that Griffin seems to have developed just seems unearned.

word is that new orleans wants to go after kyle lowry and this frees up cap space to do so.

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11 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

word is that new orleans wants to go after kyle lowry and this frees up cap space to do so.

At what cost?

Lowry is going to be heavily pursued by Miami, Knicks, Mavs, and Philly along with NOLA.  And this article suggests that he's going to cost $85-90 million guaranteed over 3 years and he'll probably get it since it's such a bad FA market.  😬

On the one hand, we all saw what adding CP3 did for Phoenix this year. 

On the other hand, Lowry ain't CP3.

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shadow_operative

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On 7/25/2021 at 4:43 PM, Message Board User said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946349-nba-draft-week-brings-urgency-to-trade-talks-latest-ben-simmons-buzz

 

The Simmons Market

Cleveland, Indiana, Minnesota, Sacramento and Toronto all showed interest in acquiring the runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year, sources said. Multiple executives from those teams, when contacted by B/R, mentioned their excitement at incorporating Simmons as a play-making forward—not at the point guard position he's played in Philadelphia.

But one problem: there has not been an All-Star-caliber player made available that Morey and his staff have had strong interest in moving Simmons for, sources said.

Time is on Philadelphia's side. The Sixers are not required to trade Simmons, although the overwhelming expectation around the league is that he will be moved before the 2021-22 season tips. That could occur in August; team executives are anxiously awaiting Damian Lillard's return from the Tokyo Olympics, and a potential trade request that could occur if the All-Star guard doesn't endorse Portland's offseason roster adjustments.

"I think Daryl is just waiting for the Dame situation to explode," said one team official.

Beal's potential availability has sparked significant discussion among league personnel, but there appears to be less confidence Lillard will seek a different team prior to training camp. Warriors officials have expressed doubt Lillard would eye Golden State as a destination.

Indiana has Malcolm Brogdon and TJ McConnell. they do not need Ben Simmons.

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ztejas

ztejas 43262

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1 hour ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Memphis/NO trade hinges on Jonas Valanciunas and while I think JV is a nice player any time you say a trade depends on Valanciunas means its not relevant in the grand scheme of things.

No it doesn't. At all. I'm not sure you understand this trade. 

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d2o

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14 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Yeah after seeing the Cavs tinker at the margins during Lebron's 03-10 years I actually applaud Memphis for trying to capitalize on perhaps their one and only chance to add a true #2 to Ja.  Could it blow up in their face?  Maybe.  Are they taking on bad salary?  Absolutely...but it's just for the next 2 season so it's not like we're talking the john wall contract.  But standing pat and hoping that they draft the next Giannis or Kawhi or Jimmy Buckets at 17 as a running mate is just not a viable or realistic strategy.

The Grizz brass recognizes that Memphis is not a FA destination and they're just good enough (with Ja) to probably not get a top 10 pick in the next few years, and even if they did, next year's draft is ass my dude.

As for NOLA, I guess this move allows the team to give Lonzo an extension (yay?) and may lead to a few more wins in 21-22...but how many more?  Does this team sniff 45 wins next season?

Lonzo

??

Ingram

Zion

Jonas V

The Pelicans were among the worst teams shooting the 3 and defending the 3 and this move doesn't really help them in this area (spare me the nonsense that Jonas V is a floor-spacer - he shot less than one 3 per game last season).

It's kind of funny that griffin signs Adams to an extension in the Fall...and then has to give up assets to move Adams.  Same thing he did in Cleveland - blowing through the assets that Chris grant accumulated like it was coke at Studio 54.  I know that being the middle-man between Dan Gilbert on one side and Lebron/Rich Paul on the other couldn't have been easy but this reputation of roster-building genius that Griffin seems to have developed just seems unearned.

I can see all of this but if you are in a trade and the other side of the trade took Eric Bledsoe, YOU WON THE TRADE!!

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d2o

d2o 1602

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17 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

This is fucking nuts.   I've come to respect Fuck Kyle Lowry a bit more in the last couple yrs but in no way is he worth 25-30/yr at his age but if he gets it more power to him.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Great ROI here from Minny…

 

 

Typical Timberwolf shit.    Draft a guy top 6, dump him two yrs later for a 2nd.   They are truly lucky NBA teams dont get relegated to minor leagues.

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Patrick Bateman

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On 7/2/2021 at 8:10 PM, Aqua Buddha said:

How willing would Okie City be to trade SGA?  Mind you, I really like him but what about SGA to Detroit for the #1 straight up?  Detroit take that?  

SGA to Cleveland for the #3 and Colin Sexton or Darius Garland?  They presumably take Green here.

SGA to Toronto for the #4 and Aunoby?  That prolly makes Toronto an instant contender right there, actually.  They presumably take Suggs here.

I think Okie City should keep SGA and build around him but in scenarios #2 and #3, they get a solid player along with #3 or #4 plus #6 and then #16 and #18.  They then have Kemba Walker or whatever asset he turns into later.  

Another one I saw floated was Donovan Mitchell to Detroit straight up for the #1.

It's that time of year......

And SGA AND 6 weren't good enough....

 

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Aqua Buddha

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Not sure if I believe that considering SGA was meeting with the other potential draft picks.  
 

That’s not a good trade for Okie City, either.  Instead of SGA and some spares, they’d have Cade and some spares.

If Detroit turned that down, they’re morons.  They get SGA and still have a solid pick at 6.  No way they pass on that.

Edited by Aqua Buddha
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d2o

d2o 1602

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1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Not sure if I believe that considering SGA was meeting with the other potential draft picks.  
 

That’s not a good trade for Okie City, either.  Instead of SGA and some spares, they’d have Cade and some spares.

If Detroit turned that down, they’re morons.  They get SGA and still have a solid pick at 6.  No way they pass on that.

#1 picks still get so overvalued these days.   Even though there are fewer and fewer sure fire guys at the top now.   I like Cade but I'm in no way convinced he will be even as good as SGA is right now

The ONLY argument I can see for DET turning it down is they would have to pay SGA now and they are not in the point of their rebuild to pay a player star money.

EDIT:  I could also see DET not wanting to go all the way down to 6.   Like if they could move back to 2 or 3 and still get one of the guys at which they've been looking.

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Patrick Bateman

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2 hours ago, d2o said:

#1 picks still get so overvalued these days.   Even though there are fewer and fewer sure fire guys at the top now.   I like Cade but I'm in no way convinced he will be even as good as SGA is right now

The ONLY argument I can see for DET turning it down is they would have to pay SGA now and they are not in the point of their rebuild to pay a player star money.

EDIT:  I could also see DET not wanting to go all the way down to 6.   Like if they could move back to 2 or 3 and still get one of the guys at which they've been looking.

So, you hit on a lot of it..... it's about cost and having to pay a guy a max contract after 2 years (most likely having to sign it next summer), rather than having the full 4/5 years.  Frankly, I still would have considered doing it, but Detroit has a lot of dead weight, salary cap wise, this season.  After this season it opens up and they'll have more financial freedom.  Some of it may have to do with ticket gate too..... #1 picks get a lot of media attention.  I think the report is probably a little incomplete as I bet there was a 2nd piece asked back by OKC and that may have been the sticking point....

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Try as they might, the Lakers just can’t get rid of Kuzma.

 

He's pretty affordable the next 2 years, but they may not want to slide down that far.  Then again, I've read they were considering Eric Gordon, which may or may not be true, but if true, that's even worse.

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