Should machines be used for balls and strikes?

[closetohumping 17432]

This is ridiculous

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2061]

 

[Helobious 9456]

How is that even a question. Also a machine won’t eject someone just because it gets its feelings hurt.

[Barbacoa 1934]

I hate the idea but I dont have a good argument against it. 

[TexArcher 37761]

People resisted goal line technology in soccer, too, but I don't hear anyone wishing the mistakes would come back.

[Barbacoa 1934]

Also it wouldnt be too bad if the ump was still back there calling what the machines call. Would make it feel normal and you'd still need someone for plays at the plate. 

[TwiceHorn 31435]

5 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

 

Looks to me like that pitch crosses a good chunk of the plate right through the zone.

Wicked curve.  Bad example.

High inside fastballs last night in the Fairfield game, great example.

Edited June 7, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

55 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks to me like that pitch crosses a good chunk of the plate right through the zone.

Wicked curve.  Bad example.

High inside fastballs last night in the Fairfield game, great example.

That's a ball every day and night. Agreed about Fairfield ump; his lower left zone for right handed hitters was also inconsistent. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by ConferenceRoom

[wood 11225]

4 hours ago, Barbacoa said:

Also it wouldnt be too bad if the ump was still back there calling what the machines call. Would make it feel normal and you'd still need someone for plays at the plate. 

I think that's what we're heading toward. You'll still need an ump back there for certain things. He just won't likely be calling balls & strikes. They're actually already testing a system in the minors somewhere. ump friend of mine who really follows this stuff closely told me about it. Ump has an earbud in his ear, and someone or some thing tells him what the system has called the pitch. My buddy is actually in favor of it, as he takes his job very seriously, knows every rule, etc, and he's really critical of strike zone inconsistency, etc. He says the bugs still need to be worked out of the system, as it still gives you some real WTF calls, even worse than what some umps do now, He says it's showing a lot of promise though. I'll see if I can get more details and get back here when I do.

Edited June 7, 2021 by wood

[NorthLoop 14180]

The only umps that won't like this are the egomaniacs that want the game to be all about them. Those guys shouldn't be umping anyways. 

[maninblack 7974]

Automated strike zone. Seen way too many awful calls in my life.

[MAUFRAIS 6615]

C’mon, Deep Blue!

[Valmy77 13225]

I mean probably, especially for the professional leagues. It will be a little different in the NCAA, sort of like how instant replay is not available everywhere. Some college games will have it and others will not.

[Dnaguy 11914]

27 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

The only umps that won't like this are the egomaniacs that want the game to be all about them. Those guys shouldn't be umping anyways. 

So all crew chiefs?

 

[Sir Ulrich 5187]

Was listening to Sirius XM a few weeks ago on a Sunday morning and the best guest they could pull was a retired MLB ump. When this argument came up I swear I've never heard a grown man whine and bitch more than this guy did at the thought that him and his band of dumb asses wouldn't be able to ruin any more games. The quicker we stop letting these try hards attempt to make it their show every night the quicker baseball will grow. 

[Scraps 13560]

This was your breaking point? 

[Valmy77 13225]

Just now, Sir Ulrich said:

Was listening to Sirius XM a few weeks ago on a Sunday morning and the best guest they could pull was a retired MLB ump. When this argument came up I swear I've never heard a grown man whine and bitch more than this guy did at the thought that him and his band of dumb asses wouldn't be able to ruin any more games. The quicker we stop letting these try hards attempt to make it their show every night the quicker baseball will grow. 

The Umpires are still going to have a large impact on the games but yeah the power trips the Angel Hernandez's of the world get these days is really tiresome.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2061]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks to me like that pitch crosses a good chunk of the plate right through the zone.

Wicked curve.  Bad example.

High inside fastballs last night in the Fairfield game, great example.

lol no.  it didn't catch anything and was the subject of much discussion at the time.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/anatomy-of-a-really-bad-call/

 

[Valmy77 13225]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

This was your breaking point? 

Yeah in the world of horrible balls and strikes calls that one wasn't even remotely outrageous.

[Valmy77 13225]

1 minute ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

lol no.  it didn't catch anything and was the subject of much discussion at the time.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/anatomy-of-a-really-bad-call/

 

See I am used to college umping. Sometimes it almost seems like the Ump is just making up whatever. Low and outside a strike? Ok whatever.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Valmy77

[Sir Ulrich 5187]

3 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

The Umpires are still going to have a large impact on the games but yeah the power trips the Angel Hernandez's of the world get these days is really tiresome.

Sure they will but every other play will be reviewable so no real worries there. The baseball scene in Naked Gun is so on point about umps and their egos

[closetohumping 17432]

8 hours ago, Barbacoa said:

I hate the idea but I dont have a good argument against it. 

I know I know, part of the game.  But I'm starting to go with "right is right."  I'm glad football has instant replay.  

[closetohumping 17432]

47 minutes ago, MAUFRAIS said:

C’mon, Deep Blue!

Where'd you get you RAM and Motherboard ump?!?!?

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by closetohumping

[wood 11225]

Just now, closetohumping said:

I know I know, part of the game.  But I'm starting to go with "right is right."  I'm glad football has instant replay.  

I'm glad baseball has instant replay. 

With football I've come to the point where I'd rather they just can it. In football, it's a complete clusterfuck, slows the game down to a crawl, and they still get it wrong half the time after reviewing it for 10 minutes, often in obvious fashion. If they're gonna get it wrong anyway, at least don't waste everyone's time pretending to try to get it right.

[Valmy77 13225]

1 minute ago, wood said:

I'm glad baseball has instant replay. 

With football I've come to the point where I'd rather they just can it. In football, it's a complete clusterfuck, slows the game down to a crawl, and they still get it wrong half the time after reviewing it for 10 minutes, often in obvious fashion. If they're gonna get it wrong anyway, at least don't waste everyone's time pretending to try to get it right.

You must be a Big 12 Football fan.

[wood 11225]

Just now, Valmy77 said:

You must be a Big 12 Football fan.

Yeah, the Big 12 is the worst, but this shit is bad throughout football. 

[4th and 5 4914]

If blue hadn’t called all those Fairfield balls a strike, I’d still be at the game right now...so be careful what you wish for.

Edited June 7, 2021 by 4th and 5

[BrazilHorn 6586]

The HP Umpire in Sat night UT vs ASU game sucked ass. He would call low and outside a ball one batter then a strike the next. I would be fine with Human umpires if A) be consistent in your zone (even if it is shitty) & B) realize that no one is there to see your ass (here is looking at you Angel & Jerry). Just call balls and strikes and shut the fuck up.

The issue is there is no accountability in the umpire ranks to making good calls. They are like police unions in how they close ranks and defend one another when an umpire is a shit bag.

 

[Cajun 11705]

10 hours ago, Barbacoa said:

I hate the idea but I dont have a good argument against it. 

All my arguments against it were killed and put in a 55 gal drum of acid by the home plate ump in our game last night.  

I fucking hate jackfucks like that mutherfucker.

[closetohumping 17432]

2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

You must be a Big 12 Football fan.

Or a Steelers fan

[NeverMarryAStripper 21867]

So what happens when Russian hackers get in the system and initiate ransomware five minutes before the first pitch of game seven of the world series?

[hobbes2702 13028]

I voted human and then realized I didn’t have a good argument against machines. I guess sign me up for terminators 

[Helobious 9456]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

So what happens when Russian hackers get in the system and initiate ransomware five minutes before the first pitch of game seven of the world series?

Get some dude with the MLB app on his phone to stand out there and make the calls. They could switch to that system tomorrow and it’d be an improvement. 

[troph 24781]

humans but have no argument against machines so bring it on but they have to be perfect or no thanks.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

Machine but for added fun it is randomly programmable with historic zone data and they disclose the program at the plate meeting.  Kind of like the wheel they spin to pick a judge in some court cases.

So

"Tonight we have the MLB Standard program in place, have a good one fellas"

or

"Congrats guys tonight you got John Libka at that top of his game, let's keep it clean out there."

or

"Good luck guys, want to let you know that tonight the wheel picked I'm More Important Than Anybody Else Out Here Joe West, let's have a good game." 

[shadow_operative 15932]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks to me like that pitch crosses a good chunk of the plate right through the zone.

Wicked curve.  Bad example.

High inside fastballs last night in the Fairfield game, great example.

last night:

pitch on the outside black to a lefty: ball

pitch above the letters and just under the chin of a righty: strike 

that guy was bad at his job. 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by shadow_operative

[You don't know me 1161]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Machine but for added fun it is randomly programmable with historic zone data and they disclose the program at the plate meeting.  Kind of like the wheel they spin to pick a judge in some court cases.

So

"Tonight we have the MLB Standard program in place, have a good one fellas"

or

"Congrats guys tonight you got John Libka at that top of his game, let's keep it clean out there."

or

"Good luck guys, want to let you know that tonight the wheel picked I'm More Important Than Anybody Else Out Here Joe West, let's have a good game." 

As long as Angel Hernandez isn't in the rotation, it would be an upgrade.

[Eskimohorn 5629]

“No” - Tom Glavine

[idigTexas 2284]

I haven't seen one good argument for letting humans continue to call balls and strikes, yet 10 people voted for that.  That tells me that the only valid reason for choosing that option is "I'm a total spaz and clicked the wrong button."  

[TwiceHorn 31435]

11 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

I haven't seen one good argument for letting humans continue to call balls and strikes, yet 10 people voted for that.  That tells me that the only valid reason for choosing that option is "I'm a total spaz and clicked the wrong button."  

Some people just want to see the world burn.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2061]

I like the good parts of no machines: pitch framing as a valued skill, human emotion from a punch out. Some quirks I like because it makes baseball unique, like a widened zone at 3-0 and the lefty strike.  
 

 I generally don’t like technology in sports.  We lose a lot when you don’t get to jump for joy in the heat of the moment and instead sit for 2 minutes and wait for instant replay. 
 

I think I lean toward no.  Baseball in particular is suffering from too much perfection now.  Shifts, three true outcomes, no more stolen bases, strikeouts are fine, launch angle is everything has lessened the game.  We’ve optimized too much. This is one more thing that seems to be changing something from my favorite sport into a streamlined machine that ends up feeling too sterile.  
 

 

[Huckleberry 32843]

Pitch framing is not a good thing from a sports purity standpoint. It's the baseball equivalent of flopping in basketball and diving in soccer. It is a conscious effort to trick an official. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2061]

"It's not a good thing" is just a matter of preference.  What is exciting about the sport, what isn't.  What is a skill, what isn't.  Is it the same as flopping?  Not to me.  One shows you are willing to act like a pussy, one is a tough to develop skill.  

[shadow_operative 15932]

i'd like to keep human umpires if there was a way for us to fire the fuck out of 90% of existing umpires while bringing in a new generation of umpires who are actually well trained, competent, and *who are held accountable for their performance*. instead, we're talking about going from one extreme to another. just because it's currently all CB Bucknor, Joe West, and Angel Hernandez doesn't mean that no humans are capable of officiating this sport properly. bring in a new generation and hold them accountable for their performance. that's what i would love to see. never gonna happen, but that's what i would prefer.

Edited June 9, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Huckleberry 32843]

Flopping is a skill, too. Some guys look ridiculous so never get the call. Some guys are hated by opponents' fans because they frequently get the call. 

But what's undeniable is that they are both concerted efforts to get the official to make a close call, or even wrong call, in your favor. You absolve catchers because you apparently think manliness matters more than helping your team win for whatever reason. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2061]

That's probably true.  Something about me keeps me from wanting to root for people that debase themselves.

[Huckleberry 32843]

From my perspective I don't have a problem with any of it, I think it's the officials' responsibility to call it right. That's not to say it's always easy, but I'm not going to be upset with players who are doing whatever they think will help their team win.

If I were working home plate in a major league baseball game and the catcher tugged a close pitch back toward the plate I would be inclined to call it a ball. He's a professional catcher and he's pulling it toward the middle of the plate because he thought it was a ball. When a catcher thinks a pitch was a strike they hold that mitt perfectly still.

And understanding that about myself is one of the reasons I'm in favor of machines calling balls and strikes.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Huckleberry

[Bevo&Pevo 5120]

[Rimbo 25908]

On 6/7/2021 at 5:48 AM, NorthLoop said:

The only umps that won't like this are the egomaniacs that want the game to be all about them. Those guys shouldn't be umping anyways. 

You can just say "Angel Hernandez." We know who you're talking about. 😉

[TrashMaster G 17539]

How about we start with the machines as a check?  Any ump that doesn't call what the machine would call 95% of the time or more, or if he misses more than three calls in a game that are 4 inches or more outside the zone -  he gets his walking papers.