Rich people don't pay much in taxes (now in CR) - ProPublica

[Brew 3,049]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well since I wasn’t talking to you maybe you should have either ignored it then or made a substantive response instead of just bashing me instead. Hope it made you feel temporarily better.

You quoted a question I asked someone else and as usual added nothing to it other than a smart ass response taking a potshot at me which I then responded to and then you responded to. It’s not that difficult to look back up a few posts.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

I wonder which Zillionaire trying to get into space first will stimulate the economy the most? My rocket business is suffering.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 minutes ago, Brew said:

You quoted a question I asked someone else and as usual added nothing to it other than a smart ass response taking a potshot at me which I then responded to and then you responded to. It’s not that difficult to look back up a few posts.

We’ve had this same discussion before when talking about the trump tax cuts, which you seemed to support. We just apparently fundamentally disagree on the fairness of our current tax system which I believe benefits the top 1 percent (really more like top .001 percent) owners of capital which based on your posts you seem to have no problem with. I took issue with you asking a non accountant how can they possibly do this when I think you already know how or at least should know how.

[JohnLocke 115]

A wealth tax is likely unconstitutional. But how hard would it be to implement a graduated lifetime capital gains tax? Not hard at all. But it will never happen, cuz both parties are in the pocket of the wealthy.

Example. 1st million 15%

2-5 million 20%

5-10 million 30%

over 10 million:  50%

This would also take care of those hedge fund guys that get to claim their income is capital gains.  I'm all for sticking it to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,987]

26 minutes ago, JohnLocke said:

A wealth tax is likely unconstitutional. But how hard would it be to implement a graduated lifetime capital gains tax? Not hard at all. But it will never happen, cuz both parties are in the pocket of the wealthy.

Example. 1st million 15%

2-5 million 20%

5-10 million 30%

over 10 million:  50%

This would also take care of those hedge fund guys that get to claim their income is capital gains.  I'm all for sticking it to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

 

 

Hmm. There might actually be something to the unconstitutional argument. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/12/17/787476334/is-a-wealth-tax-constitutional

Edited June 15, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[safe sex 11,913]

Fucking loser

[Teebox 90]

Rich guy behaves rationally.  Shocking.

[Anastasis 23,699]

If he’s “saving” 600mm, how much is he paying in taxes over that same timeframe?

[sidis 9,990]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If he’s “saving” 600mm, how much is he paying in taxes over that same timeframe?

they are coming to the $610 million by multiplying 7% by the current market value of the 50 million shares he stated he intends to sell - 24 million of which he has already sold.

the 7% is the capital gains tax for the state of washington that began in 2022.

florida does not have a capital gains tax so all of that is saved with no alternative taxes paid.

that is, of course, all notwithstanding the federal capital gains tax he would pay, as well as the article not considering what portion of the current market value of those shares is comprised of the cost basis (if any) which would affect the taxable basis.

[Anastasis 23,699]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

they are coming to the $610 million by multiplying 7% by the current market value of the 50 million shares he stated he intends to sell - 24 million of which he has already sold.

the 7% is the capital gains tax for the state of washington that began in 2022.

florida does not have a capital gains tax so all of that is saved with no alternative taxes paid.

that is, of course, all notwithstanding the federal capital gains tax he would pay, as well as the article not considering what portion of the current market value of those shares is comprised of the cost basis (if any) which would affect the taxable basis.

Right. It’s just back of the envelope math. Federal long term cap gains on this would be basically 20%. The tax bill has three commas. 

[sidis 9,990]

correct.  i think it is probably most wrong because i suspect that a material amount of the shares were acquired through compensation after amazon had taken off and had some market value so there would be a cost basis...not just all the shit he gave himself when he started the company.

but it is not wrong to say he eliminated a hundred million plus tax liability by realizing the gain while a resident of florida instead of washington.  it is, of course, the individually smart thing to do but the ethics of it given the importance of washington's infrastructure contributing to the success of amazon's formative years could certainly be debated.

as is the fact that he is definitely paying a tres comas club federal tax bill.

Edited February 15 by sidis

[Anastasis 23,699]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

but it is not wrong to say he eliminated a hundred million plus tax liability by realizing the gain while a resident of florida instead of washington.  it is, of course, the individually smart thing to do but the ethics of it given the importance of washington's infrastructure contributing to the success of amazon's formative years could certainly be debated.

How much has Amazon paid into Washington state directly over its run? No idea myself, but I am sure that they have more than acknowledged the states infrastructure via their tax payments.

 

[Willfully Horn 8,204]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

How much has Amazon paid into Washington state directly over its run? No idea myself, but I am sure that they have more than acknowledged the states infrastructure via their tax payments.

 

How much has Amazon avoided paying thanks to tax incentives?

 

On the national level, Amazon pays a lower percentage than you, or I.

In 2021, Amazon avoided $5B, paying 6% on profits of $35B.

 

You really scrape your forehead on the rocks for oligarchs, huh?

 

https://itep.org/amazon-avoids-more-than-5-billion-in-corporate-income-taxes-reports-6-percent-tax-rate-on-35-billion-of-us-income/

[Anastasis 23,699]

26 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

How much has Amazon avoided paying thanks to tax incentives?

 

On the national level, Amazon pays a lower percentage than you, or I.

In 2021, Amazon avoided $5B, paying 6% on profits of $35B.

 

You really scrape your forehead on the rocks for oligarchs, huh?

 

https://itep.org/amazon-avoids-more-than-5-billion-in-corporate-income-taxes-reports-6-percent-tax-rate-on-35-billion-of-us-income/

You didn’t answer the question. 

[safe sex 11,913]

It's really obnoxious when someone does that, isn't it?

Edited February 16 by safe sex

[hayden_horn 11,401]

1 hour ago, safe sex said:

It's really obnoxious when someone does that, isn't it?

lol

[Willfully Horn 8,204]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

You didn’t answer the question. 

In 2017, for example, they paid 250M.

And, at that rate, it will take close to thirty years for the state and counties to recoup the subsidies they have been given, which, as of this year, is 6.8B

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-paid-250-million-in-washington-state-and-local-taxes-in-2017-source-says/#:~:text=Share story&text=Amazon paid about %24250 million,on their number of employees.

https://goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker/#:~:text=Subsidies Awarded to Amazon%3A over,to Amazon.com%2C Inc.

[Anastasis 23,699]

11 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

In 2017, for example, they paid 250M.

And, at that rate, it will take close to thirty years for the state and counties to recoup the subsidies they have been given, which, as of this year, is 6.8B

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-paid-250-million-in-washington-state-and-local-taxes-in-2017-source-says/#:~:text=Share story&text=Amazon paid about %24250 million,on their number of employees.

https://goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker/#:~:text=Subsidies Awarded to Amazon%3A over,to Amazon.com%2C Inc.

From your own links, 250MM into washington state and local taxes in 2017 vs. 55.9MM in tax subsidies in WA in 2017. I think that WA and Seattle probably did ok given there are also some odd 60k employees they get to tax. 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,323]

33 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

In 2017, for example, they paid 250M.

And, at that rate, it will take close to thirty years for the state and counties to recoup the subsidies they have been given, which, as of this year, is 6.8B

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-paid-250-million-in-washington-state-and-local-taxes-in-2017-source-says/#:~:text=Share story&text=Amazon paid about %24250 million,on their number of employees.

https://goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker/#:~:text=Subsidies Awarded to Amazon%3A over,to Amazon.com%2C Inc.

I don’t know.  Amazon is owned by the public - the vast majority anyway.  I totally get the frustration but it would be negligent to not fight for a better deal from varying states and to limit taxes where they can - legally.  
 

Is the system fucked?  Sure.  But corporations are just acting rationally here.  Capitalism run amok.  

[Anastasis 23,699]

Imagine how stupid you have to be to cite state specific tax revenues and juxtapose them against national subsidy data that includes all states. 

[Anastasis 23,699]

No internal reality checks at all. 

[Willfully Horn 8,204]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Imagine how stupid you have to be to cite state specific tax revenues and juxtapose them against national subsidy data that includes all states. 

Stupid? Again your narcissism insists you demean others, wormtongue.

I read state and county, after a hurried, and specific, query. If I took the subsidy out of context, then mea culpa. I appreciate the correction. 
 

I answered your question, please answer mine. Why do raging NPDs suck oligarch ass? 

[Willfully Horn 8,204]

11 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don’t know.  Amazon is owned by the public - the vast majority anyway.  I totally get the frustration but it would be negligent to not fight for a better deal from varying states and to limit taxes where they can - legally.  
 

Is the system fucked?  Sure.  But corporations are just acting rationally here.  Capitalism run amok.  

Capitalism is a good thing, until it is not. General motivation and innovation, building wealth among many? That’s beneficial to our society. Grifting on a individual or corporate scale? Not good. 

If a corporation grows while the environment it exists within withers, is that rational?
 

The extreme funneling of money into the hands of a very few is a threat to our national security, however. The examples are many. Peter Thiel, Timmy Dunn, the Kochs. These folks have dangerously oversized influence on the decisions made by state and federal entities, and the future they envision is not a future that fulfills our national values, nor one that promotes peace and general prosperity.

[ChiTownDoc 21,323]

1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

Capitalism is a good thing, until it is not. General motivation and innovation, building wealth among many? That’s beneficial to our society. Grifting on a individual or corporate scale? Not good. 

If a corporation grows while the environment it exists within withers, is that rational?
 

The extreme funneling of money into the hands of a very few is a threat to our national security, however. The examples are many. Peter Thiel, Timmy Dunn, the Kochs. These folks have dangerously oversized influence on the decisions made by state and federal entities, and the future they envision is not a future that fulfills our national values, nor one that promotes peace and general prosperity.

Agreed.  But it’s insane to argue publicly traded stocks should try not to mitigate taxes or negotiate what’s best for them, financially, when moving to other states.  

That’s not how any of this is set up.  Again - close the loopholes or take away some states rights to negotiate…not saying I’m for that, but that’s what may be needed to stop some of the games.  

Chicago is getting crushed with people and corporations leaving for lower taxes.  I think it sucks.  I also would be a moron to ask them to stay under the current varying tax laws/%’s 

[Incredulity 11,861]

Washington enacted a new tax- perfectly within their purview.

Bezos responded in his own financial interest- perfectly with his purview.

 

Once again, there is no free lunch.

 

 

Edited February 16 by Incredulity

[Incredulity 11,861]

here is a little nugget from the Seattle Times article.

Taxes like Washington’s B&O are gross receipts taxes, and can be excluded from income tax tallies.

 

https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/business-occupation-tax

 

Its fair to assume Amazon also pays a significant B&O tax.

[Willfully Horn 8,204]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Agreed.  But it’s insane to argue publicly traded stocks should try not to mitigate taxes or negotiate what’s best for them, financially, when moving to other states.  

That’s not how any of this is set up.  Again - close the loopholes or take away some states rights to negotiate…not saying I’m for that, but that’s what may be needed to stop some of the games.  

Chicago is getting crushed with people and corporations leaving for lower taxes.  I think it sucks.  I also would be a moron to ask them to stay under the current varying tax laws/%’s 

I certainly see your point, which is yet another reason conflating corporations and individuals is so fucked. It is not insane to value loyalty in an individual, not moronic to expect an individual to act toward the common good.

 

[Incredulity 11,861]

wait till he learns about s-corp tax 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,773]

14 hours ago, safe sex said:

It's really obnoxious when someone does that, isn't it?

Oh, well played! No notes.

Edited February 16 by Bozo_Casanova