Cheating Thread

[David Dennison 19138]

Just now, Helobious said:

Unless you were one of the 5,000 people at some of the Astros games I went to at Minute Maid from 09-13, you have no room to call anyone else bandwagon.  

Let me guess, you became a Yankee fan right around 1996.

Am I close?

[Mez2 4037]

Just now, Helobious said:

Unless you were one of the 5,000 people at some of the Astros games I went to at Minute Maid from 09-13, you have no room to call anyone else bandwagon.  

I was. 

[Gourmand 7776]

[Gourmand 7776]

13 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Astros fans are the fucking worst. So easily offended over fucking everything and they have no comprehension or understanding of baseball whatsoever. All this talk about cheating being ingrained in the history of baseball even though 95% of you started watching baseball in 2015. You’re the aggy of the MLB and your never ending woe-is-me victimhood mentality embodies everything wrong with this country today. Your team cheated to win a title, your star QB is a rapist, and none of your sports teams are winning a title again. So stay in your hurricane magnet concrete swampland shithole of a city and shut the fuck up. /rant 

Of course you can't make a single rebuttal point. All just ragey dumb Helobious nonsense. 

The Houston Astros own you. 

 

[Helobious 9516]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

And anyone who knows anything about the history of baseball knows that you are fan of a team with a long and storied history of cheating. 

Spending more money than everyone else to field a great team isn’t cheating, it’s capitalism. I get that probably upsets you in particular but it’s a founding value of this country, and the Yankees used to use it to great advantage. That’s all I’ll say on it to avoid going CR. It’s not breaking any rules.

[TonyTexas 10587]

6 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Spending more money than everyone else to field a great team isn’t cheating, it’s capitalism. I get that probably upsets you in particular but it’s a founding value of this country, and the Yankees used to use it to great advantage. That’s all I’ll say on it to avoid going CR. It’s not breaking any rules.

That and steroids. 

[Huckleberry 33669]

Brian McNamee was a financial advisor. That's capitalism.

[Gourmand 7776]

@Helobious you've showed your ass year after year after year with your inane "ASTROS FANS ARE BANDWAGON!" on a baseball forum full of Texans, native Houstonians, and lifelong Htown sports diehards. Instead of constantly projecting how insecure and embarrassed you are of your own Yankee fan origin story, just accept yourself as a lesser fan. 

[Jshep34 2386]

Been going to astros games since early 80s. Grandfather played minor league ball in 50s/60s. Played exhibition games against giants, yankees . Talked about the greenies players used along with whatever else they could get hands on. Talked about sign stealing also. Looking for a advantage in anyway possible has and will always be apart of all sports at any given age.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Fondren & Main 6777]

Helobious is saltier than the Dead Sea.

[Helobious 9516]

Lost in all this is the fact that Astros fans ignore the de-facto solution they are maybe unconsciously proposing. Where do you draw the line? So you say your team shouldn’t be punished for cheating, nobody should. Do we allow any and all methods of sign stealing then? Why only allow that method of cheating? Why not allow any and all steriods? Why not allow spitballs and spidertack?

[Gourmand 7776]

@Eskimohorn From Jeff Passan, 2017

The entire charade is patently absurd. Almost every team in baseball blurs the line of cheating on a daily basis, executives, coaches and assorted major league personnel told Yahoo Sports on Tuesday. Devices like cell phones and Apple Watches are not allowed in dugouts … and iPads are, because MLB partnered with Apple to allow them as a replacement for managers’ information-stuffed binders. Meanwhile, teams position replay monitors mere feet outside of the dugout – legally – and can gain every bit the advantage Boston sought.

“Everyone can have a phone or TV right behind the dugout, two steps away,” one general manager said. “And everyone does.”

...

Sometimes, the signals relayed by coaches on the field are little more than dekes. One longtime manager designated a starting pitcher who wasn’t throwing that day as the conduit for all signals. The team’s bench coach would stand behind the pitcher and whisper the play. The pitcher would fold his arms or clasp his hands together or do nothing and stare right at a player. If his right hand was on his right knee, that meant something different than his left hand. To the manager’s knowledge, nobody ever broke the code, something in which he takes pride.

Because cheating is not just part of baseball. It’s woven into the game’s DNA. Bats loaded with cork and superballs. Balls filed down with emery boards or loaded with Vaseline. Perhaps the most famous hit in baseball history, Bobby Thomson’s Shot Heard Round the World, came off a stolen sign. One scout, asked about the gravity of the Red Sox’s offense, quoted “Days of Thunder” and said: “Rubbing is racing.” Inside the game, that is the belief. It’s why when pitchers mix Bullfrog sunscreen and rosin to create a tacky substance that helps them attain a better grip on the ball, nobody blinks. And it’s why when the Red Sox narc’d on Yankees pitcher Michael Pineda for wearing pine tar on his neck, players shrugged.

[Gourmand 7776]

6 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Lost in all this is the fact that Astros fans ignore the de-facto solution they are maybe unconsciously proposing. Where do you draw the line? So you say your team shouldn’t be punished for cheating, nobody should. Do we allow any and all methods of sign stealing then? Why only allow that method of cheating? Why not allow any and all steriods? Why not allow spitballs and spidertack?

We're not ignoring anything, we're not deflecting (as so many of you insist), and we're not apologizing either. 

Those are all fair questions, but in the post-trash can environment where the Houston Astros continue to kick ass and take names, opposing fans really don't care about any of those points as much as the knee-jerk impulse to bash the Astros and mischaracterize their cheating scheme as "unprecedented" and use that as a blankie for why their teams haven't been as good as Houston.

The one thing Astros fans want is to put an end to the whitewashing of electronic sign stealing made possible by MLB's own rule changes. It's indisputable that the Astros broke the rules and cheated, but it's also indisputable that--as evidenced by the inequitable punishment handed down to Boston after two violations and the refusal to unseal the Yankee letter-- MLB scapegoated the Astros beyond the team's crimes and is perfectly comfortable making them absorb all the blame for something that was previously reported as widespread and accepted grudgingly as just part of the game. 

This foreign substances "controversy" is just a repeat of 2017-2018.

[Underdog 28891]

Jesus, I hate to think the Pirates are cheating and still this fucking horrible.  

[Gourmand 7776]

 

More lessons to school @Eskimohorn on the not-so-unprecedented nature of the Astros scheme

[Beau Vine 55012]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

Astros fans are the fucking worst. So easily offended over fucking everything and they have no comprehension or understanding of baseball whatsoever. All this talk about cheating being ingrained in the history of baseball even though 95% of you started watching baseball in 2015. You’re the aggy of the MLB and your never ending woe-is-me victimhood mentality embodies everything wrong with this country today. Your team cheated to win a title, your star QB is a rapist, and none of your sports teams are winning a title again. So stay in your hurricane magnet concrete swampland shithole of a city and shut the fuck up. /rant 

[David Dennison 19138]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Lost in all this is the fact that Astros fans ignore the de-facto solution they are maybe unconsciously proposing. Where do you draw the line? So you say your team shouldn’t be punished for cheating, nobody should. Do we allow any and all methods of sign stealing then? Why only allow that method of cheating? Why not allow any and all steriods? Why not allow spitballs and spidertack?

You are a fan of a team that benefited greatly from steroids. Your team won multiple championships because it employed players who were cheating.

Where do you think MLB should draw the line?

[Sbbruin 21938]

4 hours ago, UTexasFight said:

For when this topic turns in to a shit-slinging fest between Astros/Dodgers/yankees/et al fans

 

Let's just be clear.  Everyone cheats.  But the Astros are the worst cheaters in the history of the universe ad infinitum.

[Hank Chinaski 6324]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

Unless you were one of the 5,000 people at some of the Astros games I went to at Minute Maid from 09-13, you have no room to call anyone else bandwagon.  

Hell, those days were great...could almost always get tickets for free and sit wherever you'd like. 

[David Dennison 19138]

5 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Let's just be clear.  Everyone cheats.  But the Astros are the worst cheaters in the history of the universe ad infinitum.

Burn.

[Eskimohorn 5658]

 
More lessons to school [mention=689]Eskimohorn[/mention] on the not-so-unprecedented nature of the Astros scheme

You mean the Mike Scott who until he scuffed the ball as an Astro, sucked?

No it’s easier to believe a vast conspiracy against the Astros than admit that they engaged in an organized scheme to use technology to signal hitters in real-time at levels never seen before.

[David Dennison 19138]

2 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

You mean the Mike Scott who until he scuffed the ball as an Astro, sucked?

No it’s easier to believe a vast conspiracy against the Astros than admit that they engaged in an organized scheme to use technology to signal hitters in real-time at levels never seen before.

It worked and they were rewarded for it. 

 

[Huckleberry 33669]

3 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

You mean the Mike Scott who until he scuffed the ball as an Astro, sucked?

No it’s easier to believe a vast conspiracy against the Astros than admit that they engaged in an organized scheme to use technology to signal hitters in real-time at levels never seen before.

You don't have to believe in a vast conspiracy to recognize the factual and documented evidence that the Astros' scheme was neither unprecedented nor at a level never seen before. Evidence that has been provided to you multiple times but you choose to ignore to make yourself feel better.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Huckleberry

[Gourmand 7776]

[Helobious 9516]

19 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You don't have to believe in a vast conspiracy to recognize the factual and documented evidence that the Astros' scheme was neither unprecedented nor at a level never seen before. Evidence that has been provided to you multiple times but you choose to ignore to make yourself feel better.

It wasn’t unprecedented, the Red Sox got caught doing it that year and received minor punishments. Then the league told every team “hey, don’t do that anymore or you’ll get punished worse”. The Astros then kept doing it, got caught, and were punished worse. 
 

And every Astros fan expects sympathy and wants to play the victim card given those circumstances. Not one of you has the objectivity or critical thinking ability to realize that the Astros got what was coming to them.

[Huckleberry 33669]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

It wasn’t unprecedented, the Red Sox got caught doing it that year and received minor punishments. Then the league told every team “hey, don’t do that anymore or you’ll get punished worse”. The Astros then kept doing it, got caught, and were punished worse. 
 

And every Astros fan expects sympathy and wants to play the victim card given those circumstances. Not one of you has the objectivity or critical thinking ability to realize that the Astros got what was coming to them.

This is another bad post. Plenty of Astros fans understand that they cheated, got caught, and suffered the consequences. That's the tradeoff for cheating. Always has been and always will be.

The media and fan histrionics about it have been completely absurd and they've also been totally false regarding historical precedent and continued cheating.

[Gourmand 7776]

51 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

No it’s easier to believe a vast conspiracy against the Astros than admit that they engaged in an organized scheme to use technology to signal hitters in real-time at levels never seen before.

You're intentionally misrepresenting my defense of the Astros as a "vast conspiracy" when I implied nothing of the sort. The Astros cheated and paid the price in the form of four draft picks, the terminations of the GM and manager, and a $5 million fine. It's not conspiratorial to acknowledge a vast discrepancy in punishment between the Astros and the Red Sox, nor is it even arguable that MLB has marquee teams it prioritizes over others. (see: Hurricane Ike, MLB realignment, sale of Astros)  If you think the Astros beating Boston, New York, and LA on the way to the 2017 World Series didn't play a significant part in the punishment levied and the whitewashing of electronic sign stealing by the baseball media, you're not being honest with yourself. 

As Huckleberry said, you're not actually interested in a truthful dialogue about this topic. We can pummel you with anecdotes and facts that blow apart your fantasyland idea that what the Astros did was unique. "Levels never seen before!" Do you hear how stupid that sounds in the face of all the evidence and the history of cheating in baseball? It wasn't some unprecedented new level of cheating otherwise there would have been no need for Manfred to issue two memos on the subject.  The real precedent was the guy who broke the clubhouse omerta because he was jaded about being left off the playoff roster and then not offered a contract the following year. 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Gourmand

[WBT 20775]

3 hours ago, Helobious said:

Unless you were one of the 5,000 people at some of the Astros games I went to at Minute Maid from 09-13, you have no room to call anyone else bandwagon.  

I probably was.  You can also go read this 78 page thread and find lots of familiar names.

http://www.shaggytexas.com/board/showthread.php/104328-Official-2012-Houston-Astros-Thread

[Gourmand 7776]

45 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

You mean the Mike Scott who until he scuffed the ball as an Astro, sucked?

Yeah, that Mike Scott.... The same one I saw throw a no-hitter at the Dome in 1986 back before Altuve, Correa, Bregman, and Springer were even born. Really great point. 

[WBT 20775]

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Another one I’ve hung out occasionally socially with once upon a time was a backup QB at UT who ended up playing in the bigs for years and years and years.

🤔

[UTPhil2006 3836]

I can't wait for that Yankee letter to get unsealed.

[Gourmand 7776]

27 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Then the league told every team “hey, don’t do that anymore or you’ll get punished worse”. The Astros then kept doing it, got caught, and were punished worse. 

This is also the genesis behind the immunity deal between MLB and the MLBPA in exchange for the players telling everything. Luhnow reportedly never communicated officially to the players that they had to knock it off or the organization could face severe punishment. Manfred knew that punishing the players wouldn't get past any grievance hearings because of that technicality, so he expedited the investigation by offering full immunity. 

[Eskimohorn 5658]

This is another bad post. Plenty of Astros fans understand that they cheated, got caught, and suffered the consequences. That's the tradeoff for cheating. Always has been and always will be.
The media and fan histrionics about it have been completely absurd and they've also been totally false regarding historical precedent and continued cheating.

On this thread, the histrionics are clearly emotional Astros fans. I agree that there’s cheating throughout baseball history and always has been. And real-time sign stealing using technology was not invented by the Astros.

But the Astros did it longer and were more efficient at it than any ball club ever. It was flagrant and pervasive throughout the lineup and throughout the regular season and postseason over the course of several years. That is what has been rare.

While you’re welcome to bitch about it being overhyped, this scandal is not contrived or “completely absurd”.

[Wulaw Horn 19324]

4 hours ago, Mez2 said:

I was. 

Me too.  A couple times a year anyway.  I go to more games now b/c it's more fun, but I went then (and watched when they got carriage on their tv channel)  b/c I love baseball and love the Astros.

[ChickenSandwich 9859]

7 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

The real-time use of technology and the systemic degree to which the Astros employed it is unprecedented. Everybody doesn’t do what they did. It’s overly cynical to believe otherwise. Or simplistic to lump all rule-breaking in the same ballpark.

It wasn’t  “unprecedented”, the Red Sox were using real-time technology and Apple watches to signal the batters. It was imitation. This happened during 2017. The Astros weren’t as sophisticated in their cheating as they didn’t spring for the electronic wrist devices like the Red Sox and instead relied on banging a trash can. 

Boston Red Sox Used Apple Watches to Steal Signs Against Yankees

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.html

The Astros were also behind Joe and the Yankees. 

Don’t let facts interrupt. 
 

Let’s give the Yankees and Red Sox the same investigation that was done in Houston.....

[ChickenSandwich 9859]

4 hours ago, Helobious said:

Spending more money than everyone else to field a great team isn’t cheating, it’s capitalism. I get that probably upsets you in particular but it’s a founding value of this country, and the Yankees used to use it to great advantage. That’s all I’ll say on it to avoid going CR. It’s not breaking any rules.

Don’t forget roids and real time electronic sign stealing. 

[Wulaw Horn 19324]

3 hours ago, Helobious said:

Lost in all this is the fact that Astros fans ignore the de-facto solution they are maybe unconsciously proposing. Where do you draw the line? So you say your team shouldn’t be punished for cheating, nobody should. Do we allow any and all methods of sign stealing then? Why only allow that method of cheating? Why not allow any and all steriods? Why not allow spitballs and spidertack?

The MLB office can do whatever the fuck they want and punish anyone for breaking rules however the fuck they want. I don't know a single Astro fan that disagrees with that.  Literally, the only pushback I've ever seen on here is from the idea that what the Astros did was in some way historically unique or evil. The reason I've ever pushed back on it is b/c stupidity irritates me and I'm a sucker to respond to it b/c I have a compulsive personality in that way. I'm working on it. It's a lot like why @shadow_operative sends out walls of text about Rick Barnes- he's always right in everything he says- but sometimes you have to let it go. I'm trying to learn.

As far as what's ok cheating and what's not I don't give a shit from a moral perspective. But as a fan I want shit that's overlooked/condoned to make the game and experience better for me.

Sign stealing is beyond obvious as a fix- get rid of signs and put the pitcher and catcher on an electronic device like head coach and QB. It would speed up the game and make fan experience better.

Steroids?  Who gives a fuck.  Test, don't test, ban for life- ban for a week- I don't really care- just lets not act like Bonds is a bad guy for juicing when 94% of his contemporaries were.  Same with Clemens.  Same with the entire Yankees organization according to the Mitchell report.  I never gave a shit then and welcomed Miggy to the team when he was in the Mitchell report the day after we traded for him.  

Spitballs and spidertack, again- I'd just as soon see it banned if this is driving the RPM revolution and the RPM revolution is driving team batting averages of 219 like the Yankees have.  IF someone gets popped do whatever you want to do with them. Just don't act like Gerrit Cole is the only one to doctor a baseball. It's stupid. Which is what's happened with the Astro thing for the last 2 years.  Abject stupidity. And it's coming from Orgs that were engaged in the exact same (or so similar as to be indistinguishable) cheating.  

We got popped and you didn't.  The appropriate response is to point and laugh.  If you try to stake out some sort of bizarre moral high ground that's completely and totally against the history of the game I will ask you "are you ignorant or a hypocrite?"

 

[Wulaw Horn 19324]

2 hours ago, Underdog said:

Jesus, I hate to think the Pirates are cheating and still this fucking horrible.  

They are.  B/c everyone is cheating.  Some people cheat and still suck.  Baseball is a hard game even if you know what's coming.  And even with what the astros were doing there was enough errors that worked against them that some people thought it wasn't even helpful.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Didn't we hit significantly better on the road in 2017?  Weird.

[Wulaw Horn 19324]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Let's just be clear.  Everyone cheats.  But the Astros are the worst cheaters in the history of the universe ad infinitum.

I gave you a laugh b/c internet is serious bidness and nothing is more serious than rep- and I did actually laugh- but just know that as soon as you turn your back I'm going to totally shoot you the bird. 

[Wulaw Horn 19324]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

This is another bad post. Plenty of Astros fans understand that they cheated, got caught, and suffered the consequences. That's the tradeoff for cheating. Always has been and always will be.

The media and fan histrionics about it have been completely absurd and they've also been totally false regarding historical precedent and continued cheating.

Perfectly said with about 1/5 as many words as I used.  You are a master.

[Gourmand 7776]

 

Quote

On this thread, the histrionics are clearly emotional Astros fans. I agree that there’s cheating throughout baseball history and always has been. And real-time sign stealing using technology was not invented by the Astros.

But the Astros did it longer and were more efficient at it than any ball club ever. It was flagrant and pervasive throughout the lineup and throughout the regular season and postseason over the course of several years. That is what has been rare.

 

The hyperbole and superlatives you fall back on in describing the Astros cheating only makes you look increasingly weak. 

I've noticed a trend going back to last year with more and more of you using specific nonsensical word choices that are intended to compartmentalize the Astros cheating.

"Levels never seen before..." "organized scheme"..."using technology(!)"

What the hell does that even mean??? What exactly is a disorganized scheme and how is that even relevant? Was the Red Sox Apple Watch thing not an "organized scheme?" Were they not using the technology available in the form of watches and Ipads and surveillance cameras? Or the Yankee's use of a bullpen phone? Or any other sign stealing mechanisms levied by mutliple teams at other teams across the league? They're all "schemes" that require "organization" and "cooperation" between the individuals doing it. And all of the recent ones used...wait for it... technology.

The Astros? THEY. WERE. BANGING. ON. TRASH. CANS. In earshot of their opponents.

That's one helluva sinister, clever, uniquely evil cheat game. I know you need to believe what the Astros did was special and unprecedented, but it was anything but. It was brazenly stupid and brazen stupidity like that didn't just happen. It happened because there's a culture of cheating in baseball, one in which the Astros were told they were "behind the times" by ex-Yankee Carlos Beltran. 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Gourmand

[Underdog 28891]

25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Some people cheat and still suck.  

So you're familiar with UK football then. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

29 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The MLB office can do whatever the fuck they want and punish anyone for breaking rules however the fuck they want. I don't know a single Astro fan that disagrees with that.  Literally, the only pushback I've ever seen on here is from the idea that what the Astros did was in some way historically unique or evil. The reason I've ever pushed back on it is b/c stupidity irritates me and I'm a sucker to respond to it b/c I have a compulsive personality in that way. I'm working on it. It's a lot like why @shadow_operative sends out walls of text about Rick Barnes- he's always right in everything he says- but sometimes you have to let it go. I'm trying to learn.

As far as what's ok cheating and what's not I don't give a shit from a moral perspective. But as a fan I want shit that's overlooked/condoned to make the game and experience better for me.

Sign stealing is beyond obvious as a fix- get rid of signs and put the pitcher and catcher on an electronic device like head coach and QB. It would speed up the game and make fan experience better.

Steroids?  Who gives a fuck.  Test, don't test, ban for life- ban for a week- I don't really care- just lets not act like Bonds is a bad guy for juicing when 94% of his contemporaries were.  Same with Clemens.  Same with the entire Yankees organization according to the Mitchell report.  I never gave a shit then and welcomed Miggy to the team when he was in the Mitchell report the day after we traded for him.  

Spitballs and spidertack, again- I'd just as soon see it banned if this is driving the RPM revolution and the RPM revolution is driving team batting averages of 219 like the Yankees have.  IF someone gets popped do whatever you want to do with them. Just don't act like Gerrit Cole is the only one to doctor a baseball. It's stupid. Which is what's happened with the Astro thing for the last 2 years.  Abject stupidity. And it's coming from Orgs that were engaged in the exact same (or so similar as to be indistinguishable) cheating.  

We got popped and you didn't.  The appropriate response is to point and laugh.  If you try to stake out some sort of bizarre moral high ground that's completely and totally against the history of the game I will ask you "are you ignorant or a hypocrite?"

 

this reminds me of a story involving my mom and her coworker. my mom is an educator and has been teaching/coaching/AD'ing at the same school for 41 years now, and it is not hyperbole at all when i say that she is the most beloved educator in the history of the school. her coworker however, who we'll call "judith", is pretty much the opposite. she's constantly breaking the rules, constantly being unprofessional, constantly using the school's facilities on her own personal time/for her own personal gain, and in fact had one instance of malfeasance that was so bad it was shocking that she was able to keep her job.

anyway, one day judith was being particularly awful, and my mom, who unlike me pretty much never loses her cool, had had enough. she grabbed judith by her shoulders and said, "oh my god. you have got to stop (doing whatever it is that she was doing)." so, judith reported my mom to HR and to the head of the school for putting her hands on her. this was a mistake by judith.

the school opened up a whole big-ass investigation into the incident, which included everyone in my mom's department essentially being deposed vis a vis their work environment and the history between my mom and judith. long story short: all of the bullshit that judith had been pulling while her coworkers turned a blind eye in the name of not being snitches ended up coming to light. the brass basically ended up praising my mom for not having already strangled judith to death, and judith, due to all of her malfeasance coming to light, was put under a permanent microscope by the heads of school, and she ended up being fired weeks later after having spent a decade at the school getting away with murder. 

point being- don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. 

[Wulaw Horn 19324]

2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

this reminds me of a story involving my mom and her coworker. my mom is an educator and has been teaching/coaching/AD'ing at the same school for 41 years now, and it is not hyperbole at all when i say that she is the most beloved educator in the history of the school. her coworker however, who we'll call "judith", is pretty much the opposite. she's constantly breaking the rules, constantly being unprofessional, constantly using the school's facilities on her own personal time/for her own personal gain, and in fact had one instance of malfeasance that was so bad it was shocking that she was able to keep her job.

anyway, one day judith was being particularly awful, and my mom, who unlike me pretty much never loses her cool, had had enough. she grabbed judith by her shoulders and said, "oh my god. you have got to stop (doing whatever it is that she was doing)." so, judith reported my mom to HR and to the head of the school for putting her hands on her. this was a mistake by judith.

the school opened up a whole big-ass investigation into the incident, which included everyone in my mom's department essentially being deposed vis a vis their work environment and the history between my mom and judith. long story short: all of the bullshit that judith had been pulling while her coworkers turned a blind eye in the name of not being snitches ended up coming to light. the brass basically ended up praising my mom for not having already strangled judith to death, and judith, due to all of her malfeasance coming to light, was put under a permanent microscope by the heads of school, and she ended up being fired weeks later after having spent a decade at the school getting away with murder. 

point being- don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. 

Right?  The Yanks get a pass on a whole lot.  The fact that their fans want to talk cheating with their history of it is wild to me. 

[Sbbruin 21938]

I love poking the Stros fans with the cheating scandal.

[Gourmand 7776]

Also the Yankee fan puffs his chest and lectures us about things like "objectivity" and "critical thinking" while believing in baseless and disproven theories about buzzers and vibrating band-aids over blaming a certain NYY pitcher who chokes big moments like it's his ex-gf. 

 "Astros got what was coming to them" is a total tell and all you need to know.

It's not that the astros CHEATED. It's that the ASTROS cheated. 

The Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers all got beat at their own game and many of those fans are forever salty about it. Nobody's supposed to beat those legacy teams in one playoff run and get away with it. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Gourmand

[Helobious 9516]

Lol. Forgot about the Astros Rudy complex. Houston was a cheating-enhanced juggernaut that entire season, dominating everybody and were wire to wire WS favorites. The Yankees were the scrappy underdogs that no one gave a chance. Wild card qualifying team and they still took the Astros to 7 games.

[Deej 77293]

Can Eskimohorn show us on the doll where the Astros touched him?

[Gourmand 7776]

those tears still taste salty