Rank these 4 players

[BigOrange1 6611]

All of them are 24 or younger and will soon hit their primes.  Rank them 1-4 (using whatever criteria justifies the ranking for you).

Trae Young, Jayson Tatum, Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker

[Kermit 3162]

1. Tatum

2. Mitchell 

3. Booker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. fuck that Okie piece of shit

 

 

[hobbes2702 13436]

1) Tatum

2) Booker

3) Mitchell

4) Trae

Trae might be the number 2 if we only looked at offense. 

[Message Board User 12405]

1) Mitchell

2) Tatum

3) Booker

4) Young

Mitchell is clearly the most handsome of the bunch while Young has a face that could stop time....

 

Oh!  You meant rank them in basketball....

[shadow_operative 15932]

Tatum

Mitchell 

Young

Booker

 

does everyone realize that Booker has been in the league for six years now? he's the worst distributor of the four, he's a career 35% shooter from deep, and he's never led his team to a playoff series win without CP3 running his team. 

people here are also underrating Trae. if/when he becomes more efficient on offense and a non-negative on defense he will be an All-NBA player. long term it wouldn't surprise me at all if he surpasses Mitchell and/or reaches/surpasses Jayson Tatum.

[hobbes2702 13436]

37 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Tatum

Mitchell 

Young

Booker

 

does everyone realize that Booker has been in the league for six years now? he's the worst distributor of the four, he's a career 35% shooter from deep, and he's never led his team to a playoff series win without CP3 running his team. 

people here are also underrating Trae. if/when he becomes more efficient on offense and a non-negative on defense he will be an All-NBA player. long term it wouldn't surprise me at all if he surpasses Mitchell and/or reaches/surpasses Jayson Tatum.

He will never been anything more than negative on defense. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Tatum

Mitchell 

Young

Booker

[conVINCEd 21477]

Trae’s a midget by NBA standards.  He’ll never be able to fix that.  Still a great player, but he’ll get hunted in the playoffs.

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

Rank them for what purpose?  If I want to win 50-55 games on the regular season it’s 

Trae

Mitchell

tatum

booker  

 

if it’s who I think can be the second best player on a title team it’s 

tatum

mitchell

booker

trae

 

I don’t think any of them are ever going to be best player on a title team outside of some sort of ensemble cast

 

[hobbes2702 13436]

51 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Rank them for what purpose?  If I want to win 50-55 games on the regular season it’s 

Trae

Mitchell

tatum

booker  

 

if it’s who I think can be the second best player on a title team it’s 

tatum

mitchell

booker

trae

 

I don’t think any of them are ever going to be best player on a title team outside of some sort of ensemble cast

 

I think this is fair. Tatum I think maybe but really I think he’s Paul George 

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I think this is fair. Tatum I think maybe but really I think he’s Paul George 

He could get a lot better. He’s young enough. But I’d bet against it. That last level from mid tier all star to top 5 type players is such a tough fucking jump. 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

He will never been anything more than negative on defense. 

Booker's pretty much a zero on defense too......

It's an interesting question, as they all have real challenges and holes in their game -- Mitchell rebounds like he's 5'5' and still an inefficient shooter, Tatum is learning to create but still not good yet, Young is short and liability on defense but an offensive dynamo, and Booker's a one trick pony and not good at anything but scoring, but he's damn good that.  I think Tatum has the highest ceiling, Mitchell's probably next but the little smurf has a skillset which is pretty unique.  He's probably 3rd.  Booker's has to get better at something besides shooting (he's a decent passer).

 

[d2o 1603]

11 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Rank them for what purpose?  If I want to win 50-55 games on the regular season it’s 

Trae

Mitchell

tatum

booker  

 

if it’s who I think can be the second best player on a title team it’s 

tatum

mitchell

booker

trae

 

I don’t think any of them are ever going to be best player on a title team outside of some sort of ensemble cast

 

I keep seeing this said about Tatum and everyday I disagree more.    The guy is a stud and still getting better.   He obviously needs a better team around him but I absolutely see him being able to be a #1 guy

[HookEm 2509]

It is crazy that Jayson Tatum is only 22.  I keep forgetting that as it seems like he has been in the NBA forever.  Here is how he compares to LeBron and Durant at 22.

I'm not saying that Tatum is going to be the next LeBron or Durant, but he compares pretty favorably at this point.  He is a better shooter than either of them were at this stage, which is amazing to think about.

Also, for those who say none of these guys could be the #1 option on a title team, I think there is a reasonable chance that Donovan Mitchell proves you wrong this year.  Utah is really rolling.

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

I keep seeing this said about Tatum and everyday I disagree more.    The guy is a stud and still getting better.   He obviously needs a better team around him but I absolutely see him being able to be a #1 guy

A #1 guy on a title team, for me- is a top 3

to 5 guy in the league because historical that’s what it takes to win a title- or else an odd ensemble cast that seems to win roughly once a decade. 
He isn’t a good enough playmaker or scorer or shooter or defensive guy to be that top 3-5 guy for me. He might get there. He’s young and improving. I will just bet against it. 

[ztejas 44223]

Trae

Tatum

Booker

Mitchell 

 

But it's just splitting hairs #2-#4 - I like all of them. I do think Trae will end up being a step above. 

[ztejas 44223]

3 hours ago, HookEm said:

It is crazy that Jayson Tatum is only 22.  I keep forgetting that as it seems like he has been in the NBA forever.  Here is how he compares to LeBron and Durant at 22.

I'm not saying that Tatum is going to be the next LeBron or Durant, but he compares pretty favorably at this point.  He is a better shooter than either of them were at this stage, which is amazing to think about.

Also, for those who say none of these guys could be the #1 option on a title team, I think there is a reasonable chance that Donovan Mitchell proves you wrong this year.  Utah is really rolling.

Durant's 21 and 23 year old seasons were better. He averaged 30 in 2010 on better splits. And he was the best player on a Finals team at 23. (You're also getting close to comparing across eras)

Tatum is not particularly close to either of them at this point. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by ztejas

[HookEm 2509]

Domantas Sabonis is also 24 and putting up some pretty salty stats:  20.3 pts, 12.0 reb, 6.7 ast, 1.2 stl with 53.5% FG, 32.1% 3PT, 73.2% FT

[d2o 1603]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

A #1 guy on a title team, for me- is a top 3

to 5 guy in the league because historical that’s what it takes to win a title- or else an odd ensemble cast that seems to win roughly once a decade. 
He isn’t a good enough playmaker or scorer or shooter or defensive guy to be that top 3-5 guy for me. He might get there. He’s young and improving. I will just bet against it. 

He already is a good enough scorer to do so.    He is improving in the other areas too.   He may never have the team to do it but I feel pretty confident he could.

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

2 hours ago, HookEm said:

It is crazy that Jayson Tatum is only 22.  I keep forgetting that as it seems like he has been in the NBA forever.  Here is how he compares to LeBron and Durant at 22.

I'm not saying that Tatum is going to be the next LeBron or Durant, but he compares pretty favorably at this point.  He is a better shooter than either of them were at this stage, which is amazing to think about.

Also, for those who say none of these guys could be the #1 option on a title team, I think there is a reasonable chance that Donovan Mitchell proves you wrong this year.  Utah is really rolling.

Actually Tatum is 23 now and the efficiency gap makes it a bigger delta than top line numbers which are poorer estimates of total performance, but Tatum is very talented.  

The problem for Tatum is KD had already had a 16 WS, 7.5 VORP, 26+ PER season.  Tatum has never sniffed those numbers, his best WS is 7.1, his rookie year.  His best PER was this season at 21 and change and highest VORP was about 3.5 last year.  He's nowhere near where KD was at this age.  I'm not even comment on Lebron, who would just embarrass Tatum.

 

[ztejas 44223]

41 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'm not even comment on Lebron, who would just embarrass Tatum.

Yeah I didn't bother comparing him to LeBron - who also took his team to the Finals at 22. I'd be surprised if Tatum is ever a better player than LeBron was at 23.

And we aren't even getting into league average eFG%, TS% and pace adjustments which would only widen the gap further between Tatum and those 2. 

Durant won the scoring title at 22, played more games, scored more efficiently and played more minutes per game. And then led the playoffs in scoring on fairly good efficiency through 17 games (it was actually the next season that he made the Finals - and that year he posted 28.5 ppg on 52/37/86 shooting splits in the playoffs). But right - Tatum's a better shooter.

Edited June 10, 2021 by ztejas

[HookEm 2509]

Look, as I said Tatum isn't as good as Durant or LeBron. I'm not going to argue that. 

But for their 22 yr old season, Tatum had a higher eFG% than either LeBron or Durant.  He turned it over less. He shot better from 3.  He was a vastly better FT shooter than LeBron. Yes, he scored less than either of them... but only because he played 10%+ fewer minutes.  He outscored both of them per 36 min. 

Also, win shares isn't a great comparison at that age because:

1. Less games were played this year for Jaylen Brown
2. Tatum gives up a lot of WS to Jaylen Brown and Kemba.  At 22, LeBron's next best player was Larry Hughes. Durant also dominated WS for OKC as Westbrook & Harden were still young <15 ppg scorers at that point.

Not sure why I'm defending Tatum honestly. I'm not actually a huge fan, lol.  

[Machinator 32103]

Yeah, I wouldn't predict Tatum to be the next KD or LeBron but he's the archetype of the player you want to build around in today's NBA.

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

He already is a good enough scorer to do so.    He is improving in the other areas too.   He may never have the team to do it but I feel pretty confident he could.

Maybe.  I'm not married to my opinion on this.  It's certainly plausible.  

I don't know that he's a good enough scorer though- he's not Harden, Durant, James, Jokic, Curry or some other guys who just get buckets and points so efficiently.  He's not a bad scorer- but he's not top 5 right now, and that's the best part of his game.  That's why I'd bet against.  

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

2 hours ago, HookEm said:

Look, as I said Tatum isn't as good as Durant or LeBron. I'm not going to argue that. 

But for their 22 yr old season, Tatum had a higher eFG% than either LeBron or Durant.  He turned it over less. He shot better from 3.  He was a vastly better FT shooter than LeBron. Yes, he scored less than either of them... but only because he played 10%+ fewer minutes.  He outscored both of them per 36 min. 

Also, win shares isn't a great comparison at that age because:

1. Less games were played this year for Jaylen Brown
2. Tatum gives up a lot of WS to Jaylen Brown and Kemba.  At 22, LeBron's next best player was Larry Hughes. Durant also dominated WS for OKC as Westbrook & Harden were still young <15 ppg scorers at that point.

Not sure why I'm defending Tatum honestly. I'm not actually a huge fan, lol.  

I think your WS argument is fair so use WS/48...... again, Tatum's best is .146 in the COVID season and .137 this year.  KD's at 21 was .238 and then .189.  That's a fairly healthy delta.  My issue was more looking at top line numbers to compare which are sometimes lead to substantially misleading analysis.  

FTR, Lebron's were .232 and .206 respectively.  Interesting that each of them had arguably better seasons at 21.  Just comes with development which is rarely straight line, but Tatum would have to really make an amazing jump to get in their neighborhood, like taking 2 or 3 steps forward instead 1.  Maybe he can, he's very talented, but it'd be rare (Giannis did).  Tatum is looking more like a Paul George player without Playoff P and Paul George is heck of a player generally.  Another comparison may be Melo, who got better but then sort of stalled out around 22/23 and only got marginally better.  T-Mac could be ceiling type comparison but T-Mac was already showing a little more by 21/22.  Paul Pierce?  

[HookEm 2509]

All of those comparisons are fair. And all of them could have been the #1 guy on a title team. But they all would need help.

[ztejas 44223]

7 hours ago, HookEm said:

But for their 22 yr old season, Tatum had a higher eFG% than either LeBron or Durant.

League average eFG% this season was .538. In 2011 it was .498. In 2007 it was 496. 

7 hours ago, HookEm said:

He outscored both of them per 36 min. 

League average ppg (per team) this season was 112.1. In 2011 it was 99.6 and in 2007 98.7.

Scoring 25 ppg is not only easier in today's NBA - it is easier to do more efficiently. 

Durant won the scoring title in his season you are referring to. Tatum was 6 ppg short of the scoring title this season. 

[ztejas 44223]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:56 AM, ztejas said:

Trae

Tatum

Booker

Mitchell 

 

But it's just splitting hairs #2-#4 - I like all of them. I do think Trae will end up being a step above. 

Oh wow holy shit who could have guessed I'd put my biases aside to be right about something NBA related. 

Some embarassing responses in this thread. OUsucks or not. 

[maninblack 7975]

Young
Tatum
Mitchell
Booker

[ztejas 44223]

5 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Young
Tatum
Mitchell
Booker

That's the spirit.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

On 6/9/2021 at 6:02 PM, hobbes2702 said:

Trae might be the number 2 if we only looked at offense. 

But 4th if we only looked at hair.

[TommyGufano 6023]

Lol. Wtf is this victory lap? Anyone claiming definitively that he's been better than Mitchell (or that Mitchell has been better than Young)in the postseason is foolish 

I'm sure it's not bias toward your take that would create a discrepancy like this:

On 6/3/2021 at 4:45 AM, ztejas said:

Man that's an ugly 42 from Luka. Got the job done though. Thats 3 games now in this series that Dallas has won where the Clippers were favored by at least 5 points. 

Luka's 42 on 46% from the field (with 14 assists) in a game 5 win was ugly, but when Trae scores 25 on 31% from the field it's a knockout blow for Mitchell, Tatum and Booker. OK

[ztejas 44223]

19 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Lol. Wtf is this victory lap? Anyone claiming definitively that he's been better than Mitchell (or that Mitchell has been better than Young)in the postseason is foolish 

I'm sure it's not bias toward your take that would create a discrepancy like this:

Luka's 42 on 46% from the field (with 14 assists) in a game 5 win was ugly, but when Trae scores 25 on 31% from the field it's a knockout blow for Mitchell, Tatum and Booker. OK

I'm not rating him over Luka. Luka is in a different class than all of these guys. Nice strawman though. And Mitchell is on a much better team and asked to do less. He's also getting his ass beat right now.

Also Trae had 18 assists tonight. 

But whatever consoles anyone that thinks Trae is the 3rd or 4th best player of these guys is going to play well here I guess.

And Jesus - using Mitchell as your example? Every GM in the league would be fired for trading Trae for Mitchell. At least go with Tatum. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by ztejas

[hobbes2702 13436]

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm not rating him over Luka. Luka is in a different class than all of these guys. Nice strawman though. And Mitchell is on a much better team and asked to do less. He's also getting his ass beat right now.

Also Trae had 18 assists tonight. 

But whatever consoles anyone that thinks Trae is the 3rd or 4th best player of these guys is going to play well here I guess.

And Jesus - using Mitchell as your example? Every GM in the league would be fired for trading Trae for Mitchell. At least go with Tatum. 

I dont think you know what a strawman is or the point that the big sleazy was making.

@TommyGufano

[Kermit 3162]

Tatum

Mitchell

Booker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fucking Okie piece of shit.

 

Did I fucking stutter?