Southwest or every other airline in the history of the world?

[closetohumping 17433]

I will say the counter lady who helped me rebook my (subsequently) cancelled flight was as nice as can be.  She. Even gave me her personal number to make sure I was taken care of

 

As for the vaxx shit, Starbucks will pay you for ten days if you get covid and are not vaccinated. 20 if you are.   I’m not telling you to get vaccinated but I guess if you want to work for some companies you have to

 

 

I don’t know if the pilots actually care about a mandate or if they’re just leveraging this for mo money

[Js1 85259]

31 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

 She. Even gave me her personal number to make sure I was taken care of

[DaysOff 7945]

I'm in the middle of a couple weeks off and have been completely checked out.  No fucking idea what's going on but it isn't good.   It's embarrassing.  The hardline anti-vaxxer crowd is definitely there and especially in the southern bases.  I'm based in one of those and haven't heard anything about a concerted effort to fuck things up but I definitely work with a lot of guys not happy.  I'm also the guy that stays off the work-related forums and FB groups so I'd be the last to know.  
For months we've been way understaffed as the company expanded.  The training dept couldn't keep up with all the guys coming back from leaves and they weren't on the line as fast as the company hoped they'd be.  The operation was already beyond it's limits.  It hardly takes anything to completely wreak havoc right now.   I get the desire to overschedule to cash in on a nation of people chomping at the bit to travel all of a sudden, but the signs were there that we weren't operationally ready for that.  

Dude, I'm not saying a certain IAH base is any better. I had 5 straight FOs that tried to out do each other in Q knowledge. Every layover was a slam/click looking at zillow for property on the front range or south tahoe. I've got to get out of there anyway. By far our most senior base and no one ever moves.

[Your Mom 4805]

1 minute ago, DaysOff said:

Dude, I'm not saying a certain IAH base is any better. I had 5 straight FOs that tried to out do each other in Q knowledge. Every layover was a slam/click looking at zillow for property on the front range or south tahoe. I've got to get out of there anyway. By far our most senior base and no one ever moves.

That's exactly where I'm at on lots of trips.  Keep the peace on the flightdeck all day, have my beer alone at the bar, and figure out when I'll be able to move to Denver.   4 years and 11 months, minimum for me.  Gotta get the youngest off to college first.  

[squib 1120]

Yep. Had a flight out of Vegas at 9 a.m. on Sunday (yesterday morning). Got the text at 10:30 p.m. Saturday night that my flight was cancelled. Looked online and there were no flights available Sunday or Monday. Called customer service and waited on hold for 3 hours. Finally was able to book a 6 a.m. out of Vegas online--it would let me book, then cancel, then let me again. Anyway, showed up at airport at 4:30 a.m. to pandemonium. The Southwest counter line was at least 100 yards long. Skipped the line and went to my gate. Surprisingly, was allowed to fly out on a half empty plane. Felt like a big winner for just getting out of town. I was dreading being stuck there until Tuesday. I had already been in town since the previous Tuesday. I needed to get home. 

And that is the only luck I had in Vegas.

[Biff Tannen 45661]

54 minutes ago, squib said:

Yep. Had a flight out of Vegas at 9 a.m. on Sunday (yesterday morning). Got the text at 10:30 p.m. Saturday night that my flight was cancelled. Looked online and there were no flights available Sunday or Monday. Called customer service and waited on hold for 3 hours. Finally was able to book a 6 a.m. out of Vegas online--it would let me book, then cancel, then let me again. Anyway, showed up at airport at 4:30 a.m. to pandemonium. The Southwest counter line was at least 100 yards long. Skipped the line and went to my gate. Surprisingly, was allowed to fly out on a half empty plane. Felt like a big winner for just getting out of town. I was dreading being stuck there until Tuesday. I had already been in town since the previous Tuesday. I needed to get home. 

And that is the only luck I had in Vegas.

Holy shit

[Updawg 2266]

I'm in the middle of a couple weeks off and have been completely checked out.

Maybe if you were at work they wouldn’t be having these problems

[DaysOff 7945]

Work? I'm on day 8 of a 21 day off stretch and realized today coming out of HEB that I have to go back in less than 2 weeks. Depression sets in.

[Gil Bang 25907]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wife has a flight to Cancun on Friday.  Hope that doesn't fall through.

Same here.  It was a PITA to arrange our little rendezvous.  If I spend friday night alone in Cancun with blue balls, well...I won't be happy. 

[Updawg 2266]

Work? I'm on day 8 of a 21 day off stretch and realized today coming out of HEB that I have to go back in less than 2 weeks. Depression sets in.

How long of a shift do you go back in for? Is it just non stop flying back to back when you are in? Curious how y’all’s schedules work

[Bartles 769]

I trust this guy, he sometimes airs politics but is obsessive about all things air travel. Good thread:

 

[closetohumping 17433]

Cancelled am going with United.  My conservative mates are fist pumping.  Idk what to think

[DaysOff 7945]

How long of a shift do you go back in for? Is it just non stop flying back to back when you are in? Curious how y’all’s schedules work

Since I "commute" I typically fly 4 day trips, sometimes 3 days. The 21 days includes 2 weeks vacation.

[Yesh 911]

Anyone want to wager a guess if it is going to repeat this weekend?  Southwest is saying they have it under control and it is getting better, but it depends on what was the real issue.  I have a flight saturday morning out of Love and am considering driving.  Going into friday night or saturday morning with no guarantees (or at least a lot more uncertainty than normal) sounds terrible.

[Landomatic 3813]

On 10/11/2021 at 10:14 AM, Your Mom said:

I'm in the middle of a couple weeks off and have been completely checked out.  No fucking idea what's going on but it isn't good.   It's embarrassing.  The hardline anti-vaxxer crowd is definitely there and especially in the southern bases.  I'm based in one of those and haven't heard anything about a concerted effort to fuck things up but I definitely work with a lot of guys not happy.  I'm also the guy that stays off the work-related forums and FB groups so I'd be the last to know.  

For months we've been way understaffed as the company expanded.  The training dept couldn't keep up with all the guys coming back from leaves and they weren't on the line as fast as the company hoped they'd be.  The operation was already beyond it's limits.  It hardly takes anything to completely wreak havoc right now.   I get the desire to overschedule to cash in on a nation of people chomping at the bit to travel all of a sudden, but the signs were there that we weren't operationally ready for that.  

Take this for what it's worth. Friend of mine, whose dad is a retired SW pilot, is saying it's a combination of a bunch of the little things that are being reported (some slight weather, some slight ATC issues, some slight overbooking as you mentioned, some SW operational problems as you also mentioned). But, the big bubble burst happened when a bunch of employees who know they won't be there after the vaxx mandates go into effect (either because they'll quit or know they'll be fired) decided to take their remaining vacation time as kind of a 'use it or lose it' type deal. Hence, not really "a concerted effort to fuck things up" or anything really official to report like a strike or anything. Just poor timing and as you mentioned in the bold above, hardly takes anything to wreak havoc right now. 🤷‍♂️

[DDD Dad 14324]

27 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Take this for what it's worth. Friend of mine, whose dad is a retired SW pilot, is saying it's a combination of a bunch of the little things that are being reported (some slight weather, some slight ATC issues, some slight overbooking as you mentioned, some SW operational problems as you also mentioned). But, the big bubble burst happened when a bunch of employees who know they won't be there after the vaxx mandates go into effect (either because they'll quit or know they'll be fired) decided to take their remaining vacation time as kind of a 'use it or lose it' type deal. Hence, not really "a concerted effort to fuck things up" or anything really official to report like a strike or anything. Just poor timing and as you mentioned in the bold above, hardly takes anything to wreak havoc right now. 🤷‍♂️

I have a good friend who is a long time SW pilot who now works in their NOC.  Vax mandates have nothing to do with their issues over the weekend according to him.  SW is not a hub and spoke system; when weather and ATC issues in Jacksonville happened on Friday it created a tsunami for them with crews stuck etc.  Their operations were already stressed razor thin for pilots and crew members.  Basically they had no room for any kind of ripple, much less a tidal wave affecting their operations.

FWIW I have no reason to doubt what he is saying is true.  In the past when there have been issues he's been straightforward with me.

Yes the news media are reporting this as being "curious" with the timing of things (pilots seeking a TRO due to mandates), but sometimes things truly are coincidental and not causally related.

[Upgrayedd 5810]

7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I have a good friend who is a long time SW pilot who now works in their NOC.  Vax mandates have nothing to do with their issues over the weekend according to him.  SW is not a hub and spoke system; when weather and ATC issues in Jacksonville happened on Friday it created a tsunami for them with crews stuck etc.  Their operations were already stressed razor thin for pilots and crew members.  Basically they had no room for any kind of ripple, much less a tidal wave affecting their operations.

FWIW I have no reason to doubt what he is saying is true.  In the past when there have been issues he's been straightforward with me.

Yes the news media are reporting this as being "curious" with the timing of things (pilots seeking a TRO due to mandates), but sometimes things truly are coincidental and not causally related.

My left-seat BIL gave me a similar narrative

[Dbeasy 15040]

As someone who has been traveling the last week and observed every other airline have minimal disruptions, including point to point carriers, it is clear Southwest Airlines is lying their ass off, and I’m extremely disappointed to see Herb Kelleher’s baby conduct themselves in such a disgraceful way by lying to the public. The CEO should be gone for a lack of integrity. 

[DDD Dad 14324]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

As someone who has been traveling the last week and observed every other airline have minimal disruptions, including point to point carriers, it is clear Southwest Airlines is lying their ass off, and I’m extremely disappointed to see Herb Kelleher’s baby conduct themselves in such a disgraceful way by lying to the public. The CEO should be gone for a lack of integrity. 

 

[Landomatic 3813]

21 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I have a good friend who is a long time SW pilot who now works in their NOC.  Vax mandates have nothing to do with their issues over the weekend according to him.  SW is not a hub and spoke system; when weather and ATC issues in Jacksonville happened on Friday it created a tsunami for them with crews stuck etc.  Their operations were already stressed razor thin for pilots and crew members.  Basically they had no room for any kind of ripple, much less a tidal wave affecting their operations.

FWIW I have no reason to doubt what he is saying is true.  In the past when there have been issues he's been straightforward with me.

Yes the news media are reporting this as being "curious" with the timing of things (pilots seeking a TRO due to mandates), but sometimes things truly are coincidental and not causally related.

Yeah, ummmm...so...I'm gonna have to sort of...here's the thing that doesn't really jibe with that narrative. What, there have never been weather issues before? I'd bet there are weather issues somewhere damn near every week, if not daily. So, what was it about this particular weather that suddenly created the huge cluster fuck? And of course, none of the other airlines having any issues does seem pretty suspect...hub and spoke system or not.

[DDD Dad 14324]

1 hour ago, Landomatic said:

Yeah, ummmm...so...I'm gonna have to sort of...here's the thing that doesn't really jibe with that narrative. What, there have never been weather issues before? I'd bet there are weather issues somewhere damn near every week, if not daily. So, what was it about this particular weather that suddenly created the huge cluster fuck? And of course, none of the other airlines having any issues does seem pretty suspect...hub and spoke system or not.

Well I have my own healthy skepticism about things.  So far, however, I've seen no actual evidence of any walkouts from pilots or crew; according to SW their absenteeism over the last weekend was historically consistent.  What I have seen reported is suspicion.  So unless and until someone comes forward with some proof to the contrary, I'll side with SW, despite all of the suspicion (and of course outright baseless accusations of SW lying that I'm seeing here and on FB).

Edited October 12, 2021 by DDD Dad

[wild_turkey 3159]

Brand loyalty to a major domestic airline of all things is pretty baffling to me. If you fly them enough, they will screw you over for the most inexplicable things. All of them.

[msbesq 385]

We were in Albuquerque for the balloon festival and didn't find out about our cancellation until 3 hours before our flight home to Houston. SW never contacted us, our daughter heard and texted us. Still haven't heard from them, but they are processing our refund after I had to call them. 16 hour drive back to Houston Hobby in a rental car equals no fun.

[DDD Dad 14324]

36 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Brand loyalty to a major domestic airline of all things is pretty baffling to me. If you fly them enough, they will screw you over for the most inexplicable things. All of them.

I don't have any brand loyalty to any airline.  SW has a pattern of cancelling flights when they are undersold.  Do they all have mechanical issues?  I imagine they can ground a plane for "mechanical" issues for just about anything.  Can't tell you how many times over the years I was scheduled on short hops between Houston and Dallas that got cancelled and the later flights miraculously filled up.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by DDD Dad

[4th&Five 41506]

2 hours ago, Landomatic said:

Yeah, ummmm...so...I'm gonna have to sort of...here's the thing that doesn't really jibe with that narrative. What, there have never been weather issues before? I'd bet there are weather issues somewhere damn near every week, if not daily. So, what was it about this particular weather that suddenly created the huge cluster fuck? And of course, none of the other airlines having any issues does seem pretty suspect...hub and spoke system or not.

Pretty similar thing happened to AA in August and fucked up a few of my flights. With crew shortages it only takes one event to fuck everything. 

[closetohumping 17433]

5 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

I have a good friend who is a long time SW pilot who now works in their NOC.  Vax mandates have nothing to do with their issues over the weekend according to him.  SW is not a hub and spoke system; when weather and ATC issues in Jacksonville happened on Friday it created a tsunami for them with crews stuck etc.  Their operations were already stressed razor thin for pilots and crew members.  Basically they had no room for any kind of ripple, much less a tidal wave affecting their operations.

FWIW I have no reason to doubt what he is saying is true.  In the past when there have been issues he's been straightforward with me.

Yes the news media are reporting this as being "curious" with the timing of things (pilots seeking a TRO due to mandates), but sometimes things truly are coincidental and not causally related.

I agree with all of this accept I do think the vaxx mandate is part of the leverage 

[closetohumping 17433]

5 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

I have a good friend who is a long time SW pilot who now works in their NOC.  Vax mandates have nothing to do with their issues over the weekend according to him.  SW is not a hub and spoke system; when weather and ATC issues in Jacksonville happened on Friday it created a tsunami for them with crews stuck etc.  Their operations were already stressed razor thin for pilots and crew members.  Basically they had no room for any kind of ripple, much less a tidal wave affecting their operations.

FWIW I have no reason to doubt what he is saying is true.  In the past when there have been issues he's been straightforward with me.

Yes the news media are reporting this as being "curious" with the timing of things (pilots seeking a TRO due to mandates), but sometimes things truly are coincidental and not causally related.

Are they the only airline with workforce challenges?   

[DDD Dad 14324]

I agree with all of this accept I do think the vaxx mandate is part of the leverage 

So…you don’t agree with any of this.

[closetohumping 17433]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

So…you don’t agree with any of this.

No I do I agree the other factors contribute to the issue.  I also think the mandatory vaccine is part of it. 

[DDD Dad 14324]

No I do I agree the other factors contribute to the issue.  I also think the mandatory vaccine is part of it. 

Based on?

I mean, sure, the timing is certainly coincidental, but no one is saying this other than outsiders, most of whom have an agenda they are pushing.

There is always the possibility that SE and its pilot union are lying about this, but so far I haven’t seen anything from a credible source to support that proposition.

[closetohumping 17433]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

Based on?

I mean, sure, the timing is certainly coincidental, but no one is saying this other than outsiders, most of whom have an agenda they are pushing.

There is always the possibility that SE and its pilot union are lying about this, but so far I haven’t seen anything from a credible source to support that proposition.

Any chance your sauces don’t feel the need to tell you the truth about every detail?

 

I didn’t expect the swapu to come out and say “we’re not showing up until the mandatory vaccine mandate is lifted”.  Did you?

[DDD Dad 14324]

Any chance your sauces don’t feel the need to tell you the truth about every detail?
 
I didn’t expect the swapu to come out and say “we’re not showing up until the mandatory vaccine mandate is lifted”.  Did you?

My source has no reason to lie to me. I am confident of that, but will not go further to explain why on a public message board.

I’m not saying it isn’t possible; I’m just saying I’ve not seen any evidence to support the assumption that many are making.

Is the pilots’ union (or a group of disaffected pilots) capable of using a vaccine mandate as leverage for negotiations? Sure. Is it likely that is what is happening here? I would say no absent some further evidence.

[mchookem 16318]

hmm. seems to me if employees were walking off the job in protest of a vax mandate many of them would be in front of cameras hollering about it. bc if we've learned anything it's that the anti-vax crowd loves them some attention. 🙄

[closetohumping 17433]

10 minutes ago, mchookem said:

hmm. seems to me if employees were walking off the job in protest of a vax mandate many of them would be in front of cameras hollering about it. bc if we've learned anything it's that the anti-vax crowd loves them some attention. 🙄

The world is small.  I sell software.  Do I think all of us are pro vax and blm?   No, but if you broadcast that on LinkedIn 80% of the companies will not hire you right now.  The airline industry is much smaller.  Forgive me if you were being sarcastic

[mchookem 16318]

um, well... i'm not sure what part might be sarcasm. i mean if they are indeed making an 'anti vax mandate' statement i think we'd be hearing about it explicitly. at a minimum Tucker Carlson would be interviewing former SWA employees nightly. but it's only been a few days so that might still happen i guess.

ETA: are you saying that companies are screening out people voicing pro-vax opinions publicly? bc i would assume the opposite 🤔

Edited October 13, 2021 by mchookem

[closetohumping 17433]

20 minutes ago, mchookem said:

um, well... i'm not sure what part might be sarcasm. i mean if they are indeed making an 'anti vax mandate' statement i think we'd be hearing about it explicitly. at a minimum Tucker Carlson would be interviewing former SWA employees nightly. but it's only been a few days so that might still happen i guess.

ETA: are you saying that companies are screening out people voicing pro-vax opinions publicly? bc i would assume the opposite 🤔

I’m saying publically going anti vax is a CLD in the software world.   
 

I’m not knowledgeable on how wealthy pilots are but I would assume if a swa pilot publically says fuck the vaccine he’d have a harder time getting a job with another airline

[DaysOff 7945]

hmm. seems to me if employees were walking off the job in protest of a vax mandate many of them would be in front of cameras hollering about it. bc if we've learned anything it's that the anti-vax crowd loves them some attention. 

That would be an illegal job action under the RLA and the company would have a judge pull tens of millions of dollars out of SWAPAs hide as a fine. Happened to ALPA at ual prior to the CAL merger based upon just forum posts.

Every airline carries USPS mail and is a federal contractor. Just take the shot pussies.

[closetohumping 17433]

8 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

That would be an illegal job action under the RLA and the company would have a judge pull tens of millions of dollars out of SWAPAs hide as a fine. Happened to ALPA at ual prior to the CAL merger based upon just forum posts.

Every airline carries USPS mail and is a federal contractor. Just take the shot pussies.

Yep.  From a business standpoint, I’d avoid any sort of political comment.  Cancel culture is out there but I don’t want you offending half my potential customer base

[closetohumping 17433]

Not related to SWA but relevant to the conversation:

 

[Firemans4Horn 18034]

40 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Not related to SWA but relevant to the conversation:

 

 

lol. Are we just reposting Instagram DM’s between random people as news now?
 

“a lot of guys” are tough talkers until their pay and benefits are on the line. 99%+ will get vaccinated. 

[royiv 9244]

The ex military thing cracks me up. Those guys have all had compulsory vaccinations for all sorts of exotic diseases as dictated by Uncle Sam and a little COVID vaccine scares them now?

[Js1 85259]

1 hour ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

lol. Are we just reposting Instagram DM’s between random people as news now?
 

“a lot of guys” are tough talkers until their pay and benefits are on the line. 99%+ will get vaccinated. 

This.

It's come up multiple times with police departments and other entities - they bitch and moan on Facebook and then like, less than 1% quit or get terminated because they all cave and get it done. 

[closetohumping 17433]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

This.

It's come up multiple times with police departments and other entities - they bitch and moan on Facebook and then like, less than 1% quit or get terminated because they all cave and get it done. 

Totally agree.  Everyone is tough until they lose money.  That being said, I don’t believe any crew have been fired Or furloughed so would it shock me if a few pilots took a sick day or 4?  No. 

[shakahorn 1645]

2 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

lol. Are we just reposting Instagram DM’s between random people as news now?
 

“a lot of guys” are tough talkers until their pay and benefits are on the line. 99%+ will get vaccinated. 

per the screenshot, it's not "a lot of guys" it's "ALOT of guys."  

[Firemans4Horn 18034]

3 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Not related to SWA but relevant to the conversation:

 

 

 

Also, David J Harris' instagram account is just one anti-vax post after another. Let's not cloak room this thread up by posting his bullshit.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

17 hours ago, msbesq said:

We were in Albuquerque for the balloon festival and didn't find out about our cancellation until 3 hours before our flight home to Houston. 

Seems like an alternate method of flying home is just staring you in the face.

[Js1 85259]

United CEO said out of 67,000 employees, a whopping 232 are getting terminated for not complying with the mandate.

0.3% of the workforce.  A LOT OF PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!

[Updawg 2266]

231 probably wanted to be let go and this was a good opportunity

[Landomatic 3813]

15 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Based on?

I mean, sure, the timing is certainly coincidental, but no one is saying this other than outsiders, most of whom have an agenda they are pushing.

There is always the possibility that SE and its pilot union are lying about this, but so far I haven’t seen anything from a credible source to support that proposition.

My source who’s saying this does indirectly have to do with vaxx mandates is just as insider as your source. Convenient of you to ignore that part of my post I guess. Kinda seems like you’re the one pushing the agenda.

[DDD Dad 14324]

10 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

My source who’s saying this does indirectly have to do with vaxx mandates is just as insider as your source. Convenient of you to ignore that part of my post I guess. Kinda seems like you’re the one pushing the agenda.

I don't have an agenda, actually, unless you view being against rumormongering to be an agenda.

If evidence comes to light that this fuck up is related to vax mandates, directly or indirectly, I have no problem accepting that.

And, a retired pilot is not "just as insider" as my source.  Your source's anecdotal commentary is contrary to the data that SWA put out regarding its level of absenteeism.  Is SWA lying about how many pilots and crew have taken vacation or retired early?  I don't know.  But I've not seen anything other than your post that a retired pilot friend of yours told you "a bunch of employees who know they won't be there after the vaxx mandates go into effect (either because they'll quit or know they'll be fired) decided to take their remaining vacation time as kind of a 'use it or lose it' type deal."  That sounds to me like a classic, "lots of people are saying" type of evidence.

My source's story is corroborated by objective evidence; the only thing I've seen so far to challenge that is something I saw the other day suggesting that the Jacksonville ATC was not short staffed.  But I haven't delved into that because frankly it's not that important to me to dO tHe rEaSEArch.

Edited October 13, 2021 by DDD Dad