Bill Maher has become the whiny little bitch he complains about

[Red Five 41703]

Thanks for spending 90% of every show the last four years talking about how terrible democrats are. 

[Chooky 13340]

Maher can go exclusively to his podcast. The one where he holds a joint and dares every guest to address that he's gonna smoke week. The world needs one more marijuana debate. Because weed, man. He's a weed guy. You like weed? Why not? Weed. 

[linux 1783]

The biggest problem with the insane tent party is that we also think we are free thinkers, we are not either we commit to the team or we are sabotaging, We don't have the luxury of being in a cult.  The only way to remove the disaster of being a big tent party is to pick fundamentals and commit to them (and corpocrats aint it), no... more... neuroticism/overthinking. 

[Rex Kramer 1531]

I have some issues with the guy, and I don’t think he’s particularly funny, but his criticism of Dems over the last several years ain’t one of those issues. I don’t think the majority of Dems are as offended by Maher as Surly. 

[Satchel 6982]

29 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I have some issues with the guy, and I don’t think he’s particularly funny, but his criticism of Dems over the last several years ain’t one of those issues. I don’t think the majority of Dems are as offended by Maher as Surly. 

The OP explains my issue either way him and his whining about wokeness has only gotten worse.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

4 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

I have some issues with the guy, and I don’t think he’s particularly funny, but his criticism of Dems over the last several years ain’t one of those issues. I don’t think the majority of Dems are as offended by Maher as Surly. 

Maher criticizes the straw man Democrats that Fox News built. These people who demand that others get cancelled for being insensitive just don't exist. If I got on Twitter and called black people monkeys like Roseanne Barr did, I would get fired, too. That doesn't make my employer woke. They just don't want to employ assholes.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

54 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Maher criticizes the straw man Democrats that Fox News built. These people who demand that others get cancelled for being insensitive just don't exist. If I got on Twitter and called black people monkeys like Roseanne Barr did, I would get fired, too. That doesn't make my employer woke. They just don't want to employ assholes.

I get that. But there’s major backlash to the fringe left agenda across the world. The Dems have failed to address it. Maher calls it out and he’s right. I voted left for the first time in my life, along with him and probably everyone on this forum. That doesn’t mean everyone who voted the other way is “uneducated” or is evil. And if the left continues to characterize them that way, they’ll continue to lose. So far, I haven’t seen acceptance by the left, or in this forum, on problems that plague its party. Is the other party worse?  With its leader based on history, I think so. But there’s no acceptance and contrition. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

11 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

I get that. But there’s major backlash to the fringe left agenda across the world. The Dems have failed to address it. Maher calls it out and he’s right. I voted left for the first time in my life, along with him and probably everyone on this forum. That doesn’t mean everyone who voted the other way is “uneducated” or is evil. And if the left continues to characterize them that way, they’ll continue to lose. So far, I haven’t seen acceptance by the left, or in this forum, on problems that plague its party. Is the other party worse?  With its leader based on history, I think so. But there’s no acceptance and contrition. 

They can't address it because it doesn't exist. Conservatives are associating everything about corporate America that they don't like with the "radical left." To them, it's the Democratic party's fault that Disney made a black mermaid and acknowledges gay people exist in their movies.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

1 hour ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

They can't address it because it doesn't exist. Conservatives are associating everything about corporate America that they don't like with the "radical left." To them, it's the Democratic party's fault that Disney made a black mermaid and acknowledges gay people exist in their movies.

It absolutely exists. If leadership has this attitude, they’ll continue to lose. And it’ll put Trump sycophants in office. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

57 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It absolutely exists. If leadership has this attitude, they’ll continue to lose. And it’ll put Trump sycophants in office. 

What falls under the fringe left agenda, then?

[Incredulity 11873]

1 minute ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

What falls under the fringe left agenda, then?

How about 15 million people over the Southern Border in 4 years.  All while gaslighting anyone and everyone that its a problem.  

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

How about 15 million people over the Southern Border in 4 years.  All while gaslighting anyone and everyone that its a problem.  

I think cutting that off would create a bigger problem than the immigrants are currently making, but I'm personally frustrated with the democratic party for not really being any different than the republicans here, outside of basic human rights things like family separation.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

59 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

What falls under the fringe left agenda, then?

Either the Dem platform is exactly the same as the fringe left agenda, or Dem leadership (and the vast majority of mainstream media) is entirely too scared to exhibit any behavior other than politically correct and woke that it tells the world Dem institutions condone fringe left behavior. 

51 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

I think cutting that off would create a bigger problem than the immigrants are currently making, but I'm personally frustrated with the democratic party for not really being any different than the republicans here, outside of basic human rights things like family separation.

Cutting off illegal immigration would create a bigger problem than we have now?  lol. And Dems are markedly worse than GOP on immigration, particularly if all you are looking at is Biden admin. 

[C-Man 27771]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

Either the Dem platform is exactly the same as the fringe left agenda, or Dem leadership (and the vast majority of mainstream media) is entirely too scared to exhibit any behavior other than politically correct and woke that it tells the world Dem institutions condone fringe left behavior. 

Cutting off illegal immigration would create a bigger problem than we have now?  lol. And Dems are markedly worse than GOP on immigration, particularly if all you are looking at is Biden admin. 

I'm of the opinion that neither side really wants to "fix" immigration. It's a canard. One side has successfully used it as a wedge issue to win elections. The other, I think, at least tries to make things slightly more humane.

If immigration was really a huge problem in Texas, the GOP would've done something measurable about it in the last 30+ years it has been in total control of this state. Also, several key Texas industries are about to have their pee-pees whacked if Trump follows through on deporting tens of millions of illegal immigrants.

(FTR, I'm all for making the immigration process simpler and more manageable. I also don't know how to do it other than make the path less murky. Let's have them get taxed more easily. But part of the allure to the current system is that they're not paying taxes for basic municipal services. They're paying sales taxes on all goods purchased but most everything else is under the table. But, the flip side to making everything above board is that costs will go up for everything.)

[Foosters 18267]

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

How about 15 million people over the Southern Border in 4 years.  All while gaslighting anyone and everyone that its a problem.  

Looking forward to your post attacking the GOP for killing the border security bill because Donald Trump told them to.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

16 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I'm of the opinion that neither side really wants to "fix" immigration. It's a canard. One side has successfully used it as a wedge issue to win elections. The other, I think, at least tries to make things slightly more humane.

If immigration was really a huge problem in Texas, the GOP would've done something measurable about it in the last 30+ years it has been in total control of this state. Also, several key Texas industries are about to have their pee-pees whacked if Trump follows through on deporting tens of millions of illegal immigrants.

(FTR, I'm all for making the immigration process simpler and more manageable. I also don't know how to do it other than make the path less murky. Let's have them get taxed more easily. But part of the allure to the current system is that they're not paying taxes for basic municipal services. They're paying sales taxes on all goods purchased but most everything else is under the table. But, the flip side to making everything above board is that costs will go up for everything.)

This is all over the place. Everyone absolutely wants to cease the numbers of illegal immigrants coming through. I’m not interested in having a discussion about making manual labor above board. These are not the same concepts and are barely repeated. 

[Rex Kramer 1531]

11 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Looking forward to your post attacking the GOP for killing the border security bill because Donald Trump told them to.

You know I guess that totally absolves them, and provides them cover to just quit. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

Either the Dem platform is exactly the same as the fringe left agenda, or Dem leadership (and the vast majority of mainstream media) is entirely too scared to exhibit any behavior other than politically correct and woke that it tells the world Dem institutions condone fringe left behavior. 

Cutting off illegal immigration would create a bigger problem than we have now?  lol. And Dems are markedly worse than GOP on immigration, particularly if all you are looking at is Biden admin. 

Cutting off illegal immigration solves a problem that doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever and replaces it with a problem that causes me to pay higher prices for everything and gives the government larger deficits to deal with, while also having a higher crime rate. Plus Obama deported more immigrants than Trump did, and the democrats just tried to pass a bill offering everything the republicans were asking for on immigration. The only difference between the parties on immigration is that the republicans want to be more cruel to people trying to enter. The democrats should try offering something better.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "fringe left agenda". If you're talking about something like student loan forgiveness, I'd agree that paying off loans and changing nothing about the system is a bad idea. If you're talking about woke culture bullshit, nobody in DC mentions or proposes bills dealing with any of that except for republicans.

[Foosters 18267]

7 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You know I guess that totally absolves them, and provides them cover to just quit. 

There's that double standard again

[Rex Kramer 1531]

9 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Cutting off illegal immigration solves a problem that doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever

insane stance. 

10 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

and replaces it with a problem that causes me to pay higher prices for everything

What is that problem?

12 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

while also having a higher crime rate

More insanity. 

I’m mildly interested in your responses here. Perhaps this mischaracterization and misrepresentation is what you actually believe, and perhaps Biden/Harris too. 

Im not gonna engage in the fringe left questions. You’re willfully ignorant if you deny there’s an issue with both national politicians and mainstream media. 

11 minutes ago, Foosters said:

There's that double standard again

Expand pls. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

insane stance. 

What is that problem?

More insanity. 

I’m mildly interested in your responses here. Perhaps this mischaracterization and misrepresentation is what you actually believe, and perhaps Biden/Harris too. 

Im not gonna engage in the fringe left questions. You’re willfully ignorant if you deny there’s an issue with both national politicians and mainstream media. 

Expand pls. 

Creating a labor shortage creates a production shortage. We already don't have enough housing, and deporting 30% of the construction sector's workforce is going to make that problem a whole lot worse. Groceries already have gone up in price substantially, and that is going to get worse. 

The crime rate is just basic math. Immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens. Lower the amount of immigrants and the overall crime rate will be higher. 

You won't engage in the fringe left questions because you can't. Which democratic politician is out there demanding that trans people compete in the olympics, or that Hollywood include more representation in their films? Nobody is out there proposing laws to force any of this. Republicans are passing laws to prevent it. What do you propose the party do about individuals in the media exercising their first amendment rights?

[Satchel 6982]

Well, either we have an “open border” as Republicans have alleged for 4 years, or we don’t.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

1 hour ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Creating a labor shortage creates a production shortage. We already don't have enough housing, and deporting 30% of the construction sector's workforce is going to make that problem a whole lot worse. Groceries already have gone up in price substantially, and that is going to get worse. 

The crime rate is just basic math. Immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens. Lower the amount of immigrants and the overall crime rate will be higher. 

You won't engage in the fringe left questions because you can't. Which democratic politician is out there demanding that trans people compete in the olympics, or that Hollywood include more representation in their films? Nobody is out there proposing laws to force any of this. Republicans are passing laws to prevent it. What do you propose the party do about individuals in the media exercising their first amendment rights?

Stopping the bleeding at the border and deportations are two totally different things. We will not end up with a construction workforce shortage. We will not end up with a shortage of produce. This isn’t an inflation contributor, and if it becomes one, I’d expect Trump to react to that and loosen and have some sort of Bush era guest worker program. 

Your crime rate anecdote is logical. I do not know about the numbers, but I get what you’re saying. 

In terms of what Dem politicians do, in general, they don’t push back on various narratives that range from wildly unpopular social issues from DEI to trans issues to unpopular climate mandates to pronoun usage to defining what a woman is. Therefore, en masse, they’re seen to be complicit. Specifically, they protect politicians like Tlaib fomenting even more unpopular initiatives. 

On the last paragraph, I’d like to reiterate I didn’t vote Trump or Cruz and for the first time in my life, voted their foes instead of abstaining. I just see, very clearly, the issues. Dems are totally lost right now because of their failure to address immigration, their refusal to combat the most fringe elements of their party, and because of inflation that was not the fault of Biden. Depending on the independent voter that went Trump this round, I suspect 90% of them voted with one of those 3 issues at the forefront of their brains, and in hindsight it makes sense. There is now a persistence of elitism amongst the left talking heads, and a very clear lack of acceptance of this.  It is evident everywhere in this forum. Maher has been calling it out for about 2 years, and yall don’t like him now. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34100]

4 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Well, either we have an “open border” as Republicans have alleged for 4 years, or we don’t.

narrator: we don't.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

5 hours ago, Satchel said:

Well, either we have an “open border” as Republicans have alleged for 4 years, or we don’t.

I don’t understand your point. 

[MissingInAction 25546]

On 12/4/2024 at 4:50 PM, Chooky said:

Maher can go exclusively to his podcast. The one where he holds a joint and dares every guest to address that he's gonna smoke week. The world needs one more marijuana debate. Because weed, man. He's a weed guy. You like weed? Why not? Weed. 

[Biff Tannen 46138]

6 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Stopping the bleeding at the border and deportations are two totally different things. We will not end up with a construction workforce shortage. We will not end up with a shortage of produce. This isn’t an inflation contributor, and if it becomes one, I’d expect Trump to react to that and loosen and have some sort of Bush era guest worker program. 

[linux 1783]

Look 8 years ago only 33% of the country supported deportations that moved up to almost 50% thanks to Donald Trump shifting the overton window, people drank the hate fluid pouring out of his endless spit and altered their brainwaves to believe people that pick the fruits are a threat, I can not even imagine the torture chambers in Guantanamo they would open up for them if they were actually a threat.

Immigration is not a real issue, the real issue is poverty and the anxiety this generates. Notice how the issue is not like 66% in favor of deportations, just that MAGA voters drank the hate juice.

Even abortion which polls way higher in support got nullified by poverty related anxiety.

I swear I read a post before the election of some early 20s something incel moron wishing that Trump wins so that he can let loose, deport illegals so that he can finally lose his virginity (or some Handmaiden's tale fantasy).

Brainwashing to the core, you deport undocumented immigrants and they will blame you next.

 

Edited December 8 by linux

[hpslugga 4097]

On 12/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, Rex Kramer said:

I get that. But there’s major backlash to the fringe left agenda across the world.

It has nothing to do with left/right. The backlash was against incumbents regardless of real/imagined political ideology. You’re just buying into a superficial mainstream media bullshit story, a la Bari Weiss. This kind of bullshit is peddled because the far right is desperate and if they can find anything they can cling to, they will run with it forever. You know better than that.

Buttigieg remarked about this kind of phenomenon in the 2020 primary debates when one of the candidates raised concerns that the R’s will call this or that policy “socialist,” and then Pete responded “they’re gonna call us socialists no matter what we say or do.” That’s just who Republicans are in their own mind: 24-hour victims. 

Yeah, they’re victims alright. They’re victims of not having the slightest fucking clue how, among a plethora of things, to describe a political spectrum, let alone how to plot anyone on it.

On 12/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, Rex Kramer said:

The Dems have failed to address it. 

They’ve certainly failed to address many issues. This just isn’t one of them. It’s an issue that comes from the place where this kid is sitting:

Look at turnouts and you’ll notice that roughly 2/3rds of registered voters actually do vote.

But look at public attitudes on policies and you will notice that the population is well to the left of the two political parties.

The problem for the Democratic Party is that they’re too big of a tent, and one of the groups they’ve allowed in is huge money interests. That dominates their policy pursuits more than anything else, and their interests naturally lean to the right.

That’s also what turns off a huge chunk of the segment of the population that’s registered to vote but chooses not to do so. It has nothing to do with “wokeness” and it’s easy to see that: this “woke” stuff wasn’t even a thing 10-20 years ago and the Democrats still had the same problem of producing inadequate turnout. They’ve been constantly battling with that since the days of Reagan, but that has mostly to do with the final screws they put to the working class under Carter. 

No, it’s not political correctness/“wokeness” that holds back the democrats. What holds them back is either failing to address or taking positions well to the right of the population when it comes to:

-The environment
-Nuclear arms control
-The proliferation of the military budget
-Healthcare (Obamacare was the Republicans’ answer to Hillary Clinton’s ideas in the early 1990’s)
-Income inequality 
-Taxation
-Education 
-Labor rights 
-The Drug War

and numerous others. They are too similar to the Republicans on those issues, and that’s why a lot of would-be voters do not like them. You know who agrees with that? Bill fucking Maher. He said many years ago on one of his New Rules segments “over the last 30-odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the Republicans have moved into a mental hospital” in a segment where he lambasted the D’s for not including a public option in the ACA, among many other policies he was bitching about. 

If I had to choose one mistake they made that proved fatal for them, it’s that they tried far too hard to convince the third of registered voters, who tend to vote republican, to abandon their party and vote against Trump rather than convince the other third of the country why they should give a shit and to vote for them. In other words, they focused on the wrong third. 

On 12/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, Rex Kramer said:

Maher calls it out and he’s right. 

Impossible for him to be right when he merely took the bait of the bullshit cheese in the mouse trap the mainstream media has fooled people into believing. Maher was just brain-broken by the pandemic and is still butthurt about that...and he was even a mediocre talent before that, at best. You’re confusing “right” with “says what I want to hear because it makes me feel good.”

On 12/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, Rex Kramer said:

I voted left for the first time in my life

To the extent you’re referring to Kamala Harris, no you didn’t. Kamala is a center-right establishment Democrat, not a “leftist.”

On 12/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, Rex Kramer said:

along with him and probably everyone on this forum. That doesn’t mean everyone who voted the other way is “uneducated” or is evil. And if the left continues to characterize them that way, they’ll continue to lose. 

What sane, intelligent reason was there to vote for Trump? The mere fact that he got over 3 million votes, let alone over 30 million, is absolutely ridiculous. There’s no reasonable explanation for it, and it’s manufactured outrage when people force their blood pressure upwards when they hear people like David Pakman explain that nearly a full quarter of the adult population in this country is functionally illiterate.

When we’ve gotten to the point where there’s more outrage against people pointing out that a quarter of the population suffers from functional illiteracy than there is against the mere fact of said illiteracy, we are a fucking backwards lot. 

No, what will cost D’s elections is refusing to address the policies I mentioned (and many I did not), which will continue to piss off the other 1/3rd that is registered to vote but doesn’t.

Seriously, if you had told me back in May “slugga; I’ve been to the future and I’ll tell you that Trump is going to have 76 million votes.,” I’d have said “then he’s gonna lose again…unless for some reason the D’s don’t turn people out.” 

When you say “they’ll continue to lose,” you make it sound as if the democrats are on some sort of skid. Them losing this year was a shock, but it wasn’t so shocking when you realize that, again, incumbent parties all over the world have been getting beat like this as a backlash regarding things related to the pandemic.

On 12/5/2024 at 8:18 PM, Rex Kramer said:

So far, I haven’t seen acceptance by the left, or in this forum, on problems that plague its party. Is the other party worse?  With its leader based on history, I think so. But there’s no acceptance and contrition. 

The problem here is that you conflate the Democratic Party with “the left.” If the actual political left in this country had any adequate representation in the federal government, the Republicans would scarcely win any elections at all, and they certainly wouldn’t have a prayer at the White House. The only reason they would have a prayer? A huge overhaul in the party that made them revert back to who they were in the Eisenhower years.

The grand fact of presidential elections in general, specifically the last 12, millions of people clearly and repeatedly vote against their own interests. If you’re unwilling to admit that they did that, you’re either a liar or beyond reason.

On 12/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, Rex Kramer said:

We will not end up with a construction workforce shortage.

This is abject speculation. 

On 12/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, Rex Kramer said:

We will not end up with a shortage of produce. 

There’s already a precedent for exactly that. Google Georgia’s HB 87 from back in 2011. It was a complete disaster. In the first year alone, they lost something like $150 million worth of produce because it rotted in the fields. They experienced a 50% labor shortage in the industry. That bill was a catastrophic failure and it was a bill that required employers of more than 10 people to verify their employees’ status. Forced mass deportations? That just expedites the issues.

I know people like you hate it when people like me point out the fact that undocumented immigrants mostly work jobs that the average American worker wouldn’t take, but it’s a fact: they do. And again, wanna know who agrees with that take? Bill Maher.

On 12/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, Rex Kramer said:

This isn’t an inflation contributor,

“This” being mass deportations? Yes, it absolutely is, and it’s only one of them. It’ll only be outdone by the effects of his nonsensical tariff policy.

On 12/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, Rex Kramer said:

and if it becomes one, I’d expect Trump to react to that and loosen and have some sort of Bush era guest worker program. 

Based on what?

A full fiscal quarter prior to the pandemic (as early as August of 2019), we were seeing multiple indications that we were heading into a recession precisely because of his tariffs, which were relatively minor compared to what he’s been talking about this go-around.

Did he do anything to correct that? No and it’s for the same reason he would not do what you’re saying here: to do such a thing would be an admission that he was wrong, and he is absolutely incapable of ever admitting that even about the most trivial thing.

You’re attributing to him qualities that he does not have. You’re describing a fictitious Donald Trump that has never existed at any point in history…and it’s for the same reason you made that speculative prediction: you’re basing virtually every single statement you made in that series of bewildering inanities on what you want to believe and what you want to be true.

On 12/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, Rex Kramer said:

I just see, very clearly, the issues.

You’ve not given a single reason for anyone to believe that.

On 12/6/2024 at 3:34 PM, Rex Kramer said:

Dems are totally lost right now because of their failure to address immigration

In the two years that Trump and the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress, they did not pass a single bill relevant to that topic. They don’t care about it. It’s a red meat topic that they yell and scream about during the election season; nothing more. You say that the Republicans are better about this issue than the Democrats and, once again, there is no evidence to support such a ridiculous statement.

[hpslugga 4097]

8 hours ago, linux said:

Look 8 years ago only 33% of the country supported deportations that moved up to almost 50% thanks to Donald Trump shifting the overton window, people drank the hate fluid pouring out of his endless spit and altered their brainwaves to believe people that pick the fruits are a threat,

[TwiceHorn 32045]

17 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

It has nothing to do with left/right. The backlash was against incumbents regardless of real/imagined political ideology. You’re just buying into a superficial mainstream media bullshit story, a la Bari Weiss. This kind of bullshit is peddled because the far right is desperate and if they can find anything they can cling to, they will run with it forever. You know better than that.

Buttigieg remarked about this kind of phenomenon in the 2020 primary debates when one of the candidates raised concerns that the R’s will call this or that policy “socialist,” and then Pete responded “they’re gonna call us socialists no matter what we say or do.” That’s just who Republicans are in their own mind: 24-hour victims. 

Yeah, they’re victims alright. They’re victims of not having the slightest fucking clue how, among a plethora of things, to describe a political spectrum, let alone how to plot anyone on it.

They’ve certainly failed to address many issues. This just isn’t one of them. It’s an issue that comes from the place where this kid is sitting:

Look at turnouts and you’ll notice that roughly 2/3rds of registered voters actually do vote.

But look at public attitudes on policies and you will notice that the population is well to the left of the two political parties.

The problem for the Democratic Party is that they’re too big of a tent, and one of the groups they’ve allowed in is huge money interests. That dominates their policy pursuits more than anything else, and their interests naturally lean to the right.

That’s also what turns off a huge chunk of the segment of the population that’s registered to vote but chooses not to do so. It has nothing to do with “wokeness” and it’s easy to see that: this “woke” stuff wasn’t even a thing 10-20 years ago and the Democrats still had the same problem of producing inadequate turnout. They’ve been constantly battling with that since the days of Reagan, but that has mostly to do with the final screws they put to the working class under Carter. 

No, it’s not political correctness/“wokeness” that holds back the democrats. What holds them back is either failing to address or taking positions well to the right of the population when it comes to:

-The environment
-Nuclear arms control
-The proliferation of the military budget
-Healthcare (Obamacare was the Republicans’ answer to Hillary Clinton’s ideas in the early 1990’s)
-Income inequality 
-Taxation
-Education 
-Labor rights 
-The Drug War

and numerous others. They are too similar to the Republicans on those issues, and that’s why a lot of would-be voters do not like them. You know who agrees with that? Bill fucking Maher. He said many years ago on one of his New Rules segments “over the last 30-odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the Republicans have moved into a mental hospital” in a segment where he lambasted the D’s for not including a public option in the ACA, among many other policies he was bitching about. 

If I had to choose one mistake they made that proved fatal for them, it’s that they tried far too hard to convince the third of registered voters, who tend to vote republican, to abandon their party and vote against Trump rather than convince the other third of the country why they should give a shit and to vote for them. In other words, they focused on the wrong third. 

Impossible for him to be right when he merely took the bait of the bullshit cheese in the mouse trap the mainstream media has fooled people into believing. Maher was just brain-broken by the pandemic and is still butthurt about that...and he was even a mediocre talent before that, at best. You’re confusing “right” with “says what I want to hear because it makes me feel good.”

To the extent you’re referring to Kamala Harris, no you didn’t. Kamala is a center-right establishment Democrat, not a “leftist.”

What sane, intelligent reason was there to vote for Trump? The mere fact that he got over 3 million votes, let alone over 30 million, is absolutely ridiculous. There’s no reasonable explanation for it, and it’s manufactured outrage when people force their blood pressure upwards when they hear people like David Pakman explain that nearly a full quarter of the adult population in this country is functionally illiterate.

When we’ve gotten to the point where there’s more outrage against people pointing out that a quarter of the population suffers from functional illiteracy than there is against the mere fact of said illiteracy, we are a fucking backwards lot. 

No, what will cost D’s elections is refusing to address the policies I mentioned (and many I did not), which will continue to piss off the other 1/3rd that is registered to vote but doesn’t.

Seriously, if you had told me back in May “slugga; I’ve been to the future and I’ll tell you that Trump is going to have 76 million votes.,” I’d have said “then he’s gonna lose again…unless for some reason the D’s don’t turn people out.” 

When you say “they’ll continue to lose,” you make it sound as if the democrats are on some sort of skid. Them losing this year was a shock, but it wasn’t so shocking when you realize that, again, incumbent parties all over the world have been getting beat like this as a backlash regarding things related to the pandemic.

The problem here is that you conflate the Democratic Party with “the left.” If the actual political left in this country had any adequate representation in the federal government, the Republicans would scarcely win any elections at all, and they certainly wouldn’t have a prayer at the White House. The only reason they would have a prayer? A huge overhaul in the party that made them revert back to who they were in the Eisenhower years.

The grand fact of presidential elections in general, specifically the last 12, millions of people clearly and repeatedly vote against their own interests. If you’re unwilling to admit that they did that, you’re either a liar or beyond reason.

This is abject speculation. 

There’s already a precedent for exactly that. Google Georgia’s HB 87 from back in 2011. It was a complete disaster. In the first year alone, they lost something like $150 million worth of produce because it rotted in the fields. They experienced a 50% labor shortage in the industry. That bill was a catastrophic failure and it was a bill that required employers of more than 10 people to verify their employees’ status. Forced mass deportations? That just expedites the issues.

I know people like you hate it when people like me point out the fact that undocumented immigrants mostly work jobs that the average American worker wouldn’t take, but it’s a fact: they do. And again, wanna know who agrees with that take? Bill Maher.

“This” being mass deportations? Yes, it absolutely is, and it’s only one of them. It’ll only be outdone by the effects of his nonsensical tariff policy.

Based on what?

A full fiscal quarter prior to the pandemic (as early as August of 2019), we were seeing multiple indications that we were heading into a recession precisely because of his tariffs, which were relatively minor compared to what he’s been talking about this go-around.

Did he do anything to correct that? No and it’s for the same reason he would not do what you’re saying here: to do such a thing would be an admission that he was wrong, and he is absolutely incapable of ever admitting that even about the most trivial thing.

You’re attributing to him qualities that he does not have. You’re describing a fictitious Donald Trump that has never existed at any point in history…and it’s for the same reason you made that speculative prediction: you’re basing virtually every single statement you made in that series of bewildering inanities on what you want to believe and what you want to be true.

You’ve not given a single reason for anyone to believe that.

In the two years that Trump and the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress, they did not pass a single bill relevant to that topic. They don’t care about it. It’s a red meat topic that they yell and scream about during the election season; nothing more. You say that the Republicans are better about this issue than the Democrats and, once again, there is no evidence to support such a ridiculous statement.

I think you are probably correct that the latest worldwide rightward lurch may be an anti-incumbent sentiment.

However, there has been a worldwide rightward/populist lurch that preceded the pandemic.  Do you have an explanation for that?

I think the best explanation seems to be that after the fall of the Soviet Union, both conservatives and liberals were somewhat rudderless without an "enemy."  With that enemy, the debate seemed to be how much expenditure and governmental effort to devote to containing that enemy, I.e. defense spending vs. domestic spending and foreign policy.

Conservatives resorted to culture wars as a substitute enemy and refined that into pretty hideous populism and manufacture of other enemies (also conveniently identified with the Soviet threat, e.g. socialism!) while liberals mostly just flailed and in the meantime became enthralled by corporate interests and money to nearly the same extent as conservatives, as you note.

[hpslugga 4097]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think you are probably correct that the latest worldwide rightward lurch may be an anti-incumbent sentiment.

However, there has been a worldwide rightward/populist lurch that preceded the pandemic.  Do you have an explanation for that?

That certainly was a concern but not nearly as widespread. The issue this go-around, to repeat, was incumbency. How else would you explain the Tories getting fucking trounced by Labour? How else would you explain Iceland? How else would you explain Modi’s party underperforming against that big tent INDIA coalition? The New Popular Front in France? There are a lot of other examples of this, and while it certainly is not to suggest that it was uniformly to the left, it certainly suffices to reject any notions of uniformity in either direction. So yes, there have been rightward lurches…in some places. Others? Not so much. And that’s the point. The most common of threads this year was incumbency regardless of ideology. 

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Conservatives resorted to culture wars as a substitute enemy and refined that into pretty hideous populism and manufacture of other enemies (also conveniently identified with the Soviet threat, e.g. socialism!) while liberals mostly just flailed and in the meantime became enthralled by corporate interests and money to nearly the same extent as conservatives, as you note.

well they resorted to the culture war crap when the Soviet Union was still alive, but they kinda had to in order to maintain their positions of power. Their economic policies do not enjoy a strong following, so they have to throw in that red meat to keep people voting against their interests. And that’s why neither party really talks about that because there’s no way to sell it. It’s funny that we’re talking about this on a Bill Maher thread because he of all people once explained the difference in domestic/economic policies between the two parties in this way:

Republicans: “we’re pissing on you.”

Democrats: “the Republicans are gonna piss on you, here’s an umbrella.”

[Rex Kramer 1531]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

It has nothing to do with left/right. The backlash was against incumbents regardless of real/imagined political ideology. You’re just buying into a superficial mainstream media bullshit story, a la Bari Weiss. This kind of bullshit is peddled because the far right is desperate and if they can find anything they can cling to, they will run with it forever. You know better than that.

Buttigieg remarked about this kind of phenomenon in the 2020 primary debates when one of the candidates raised concerns that the R’s will call this or that policy “socialist,” and then Pete responded “they’re gonna call us socialists no matter what we say or do.” That’s just who Republicans are in their own mind: 24-hour victims. 

Yeah, they’re victims alright. They’re victims of not having the slightest fucking clue how, among a plethora of things, to describe a political spectrum, let alone how to plot anyone on it.

They’ve certainly failed to address many issues. This just isn’t one of them. It’s an issue that comes from the place where this kid is sitting:

Look at turnouts and you’ll notice that roughly 2/3rds of registered voters actually do vote.

But look at public attitudes on policies and you will notice that the population is well to the left of the two political parties.

The problem for the Democratic Party is that they’re too big of a tent, and one of the groups they’ve allowed in is huge money interests. That dominates their policy pursuits more than anything else, and their interests naturally lean to the right.

That’s also what turns off a huge chunk of the segment of the population that’s registered to vote but chooses not to do so. It has nothing to do with “wokeness” and it’s easy to see that: this “woke” stuff wasn’t even a thing 10-20 years ago and the Democrats still had the same problem of producing inadequate turnout. They’ve been constantly battling with that since the days of Reagan, but that has mostly to do with the final screws they put to the working class under Carter. 

No, it’s not political correctness/“wokeness” that holds back the democrats. What holds them back is either failing to address or taking positions well to the right of the population when it comes to:

-The environment
-Nuclear arms control
-The proliferation of the military budget
-Healthcare (Obamacare was the Republicans’ answer to Hillary Clinton’s ideas in the early 1990’s)
-Income inequality 
-Taxation
-Education 
-Labor rights 
-The Drug War

and numerous others. They are too similar to the Republicans on those issues, and that’s why a lot of would-be voters do not like them. You know who agrees with that? Bill fucking Maher. He said many years ago on one of his New Rules segments “over the last 30-odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the Republicans have moved into a mental hospital” in a segment where he lambasted the D’s for not including a public option in the ACA, among many other policies he was bitching about. 

If I had to choose one mistake they made that proved fatal for them, it’s that they tried far too hard to convince the third of registered voters, who tend to vote republican, to abandon their party and vote against Trump rather than convince the other third of the country why they should give a shit and to vote for them. In other words, they focused on the wrong third. 

Impossible for him to be right when he merely took the bait of the bullshit cheese in the mouse trap the mainstream media has fooled people into believing. Maher was just brain-broken by the pandemic and is still butthurt about that...and he was even a mediocre talent before that, at best. You’re confusing “right” with “says what I want to hear because it makes me feel good.”

To the extent you’re referring to Kamala Harris, no you didn’t. Kamala is a center-right establishment Democrat, not a “leftist.”

What sane, intelligent reason was there to vote for Trump? The mere fact that he got over 3 million votes, let alone over 30 million, is absolutely ridiculous. There’s no reasonable explanation for it, and it’s manufactured outrage when people force their blood pressure upwards when they hear people like David Pakman explain that nearly a full quarter of the adult population in this country is functionally illiterate.

When we’ve gotten to the point where there’s more outrage against people pointing out that a quarter of the population suffers from functional illiteracy than there is against the mere fact of said illiteracy, we are a fucking backwards lot. 

No, what will cost D’s elections is refusing to address the policies I mentioned (and many I did not), which will continue to piss off the other 1/3rd that is registered to vote but doesn’t.

Seriously, if you had told me back in May “slugga; I’ve been to the future and I’ll tell you that Trump is going to have 76 million votes.,” I’d have said “then he’s gonna lose again…unless for some reason the D’s don’t turn people out.” 

When you say “they’ll continue to lose,” you make it sound as if the democrats are on some sort of skid. Them losing this year was a shock, but it wasn’t so shocking when you realize that, again, incumbent parties all over the world have been getting beat like this as a backlash regarding things related to the pandemic.

The problem here is that you conflate the Democratic Party with “the left.” If the actual political left in this country had any adequate representation in the federal government, the Republicans would scarcely win any elections at all, and they certainly wouldn’t have a prayer at the White House. The only reason they would have a prayer? A huge overhaul in the party that made them revert back to who they were in the Eisenhower years.

The grand fact of presidential elections in general, specifically the last 12, millions of people clearly and repeatedly vote against their own interests. If you’re unwilling to admit that they did that, you’re either a liar or beyond reason.

This is abject speculation. 

There’s already a precedent for exactly that. Google Georgia’s HB 87 from back in 2011. It was a complete disaster. In the first year alone, they lost something like $150 million worth of produce because it rotted in the fields. They experienced a 50% labor shortage in the industry. That bill was a catastrophic failure and it was a bill that required employers of more than 10 people to verify their employees’ status. Forced mass deportations? That just expedites the issues.

I know people like you hate it when people like me point out the fact that undocumented immigrants mostly work jobs that the average American worker wouldn’t take, but it’s a fact: they do. And again, wanna know who agrees with that take? Bill Maher.

“This” being mass deportations? Yes, it absolutely is, and it’s only one of them. It’ll only be outdone by the effects of his nonsensical tariff policy.

Based on what?

A full fiscal quarter prior to the pandemic (as early as August of 2019), we were seeing multiple indications that we were heading into a recession precisely because of his tariffs, which were relatively minor compared to what he’s been talking about this go-around.

Did he do anything to correct that? No and it’s for the same reason he would not do what you’re saying here: to do such a thing would be an admission that he was wrong, and he is absolutely incapable of ever admitting that even about the most trivial thing.

You’re attributing to him qualities that he does not have. You’re describing a fictitious Donald Trump that has never existed at any point in history…and it’s for the same reason you made that speculative prediction: you’re basing virtually every single statement you made in that series of bewildering inanities on what you want to believe and what you want to be true.

You’ve not given a single reason for anyone to believe that.

In the two years that Trump and the Republicans controlled the White House and the Congress, they did not pass a single bill relevant to that topic. They don’t care about it. It’s a red meat topic that they yell and scream about during the election season; nothing more. You say that the Republicans are better about this issue than the Democrats and, once again, there is no evidence to support such a ridiculous statement.

Ok

[Orale 1176]

29 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Ok

Why post on this forum if you're just going to respond like a child?

[Rex Kramer 1531]

2 hours ago, Orale said:

Why post on this forum if you're just going to respond like a child?

He dismissed everything I said. He responded like a child. I’m not going to engage like an even more verbose child. I don’t care enough. He is a prime example of why Dems lose. Carry on. 

[Biff Tannen 46138]

21 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

He dismissed everything I said. He responded like a child. I’m not going to engage like an even more verbose child. I don’t care enough. He is a prime example of why Dems lose. Carry on. 

No, he trounced your arguments and you don’t have the testicular fortitude to defend them or admit defeat. You are tacitly doing so by your smarmy reply. 

[Brian Fantana 6862]

He's literally crying about his arguments getting deconstructed in a constructive way lmao

You cannot reach these people

[linux 1783]

12 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

He's literally crying about his arguments getting deconstructed in a constructive way lmao

You cannot reach these people

If the species dies in a nuclear fire I would write in on its toombstone: "Always refused reason and logic because he/she was humiliated and angry to be shown wrong"

[Rex Kramer 1531]

2 minutes ago, linux said:

If the species dies in a nuclear fire I would write in on its toombstone: "Always refused reason and logic because he/she was humiliated and angry to be shown wrong"

The poster you quoted, I’ve got on ignore. I’m not crying. I’m just not going to respond to a very loquacious post that effectively says “everything you said is wrong”. I voted Kamala. I was offering reasons why she lost, or rather defending Maher. HP totally discounts everything I wrote, and y’all are all jumping on board with it, saying I got “trounced”.  Im not going to waste time arguing. If your collective attitude pervades, Dems will continue to lose.  I strongly suspect most of you know it, yet just don’t like it. 

[Brian Fantana 6862]

He has me on ignore for this exact same reason, by the way. He cannot handle sustained contradiction of his immature and asinine positions.

[linux 1783]

6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

The poster you quoted, I’ve got on ignore. I’m not crying. I’m just not going to respond to a very loquacious post that effectively says “everything you said is wrong”. I voted Kamala. I was offering reasons why she lost, or rather defending Maher. HP totally discounts everything I wrote, and y’all are all jumping on board with it, saying I got “trounced”.  Im not going to waste time arguing. If your collective attitude pervades, Dems will continue to lose.  I strongly suspect most of you know it, yet just don’t like it. 

I mean I have my reasons as well people disagree and my response is not "OK" I read and reply point by point or not bother at all. You say this place is an echo chamber the fact that you are being disagreed upon disproves it.

[Rex Kramer 1531]

1 minute ago, linux said:

I mean I have my reasons as well people disagree and my response is not "OK" I read and reply point by point or not bother at all. You say this place is an echo chamber the fact that you are being disagreed upon disproves it.

I say something. He expends a lot of effort and words to say, you’re wrong. In his response, he says Republicans cry a bunch, completely unaware of the irony, and says Kamala is a centrist candidate, mistaking my comment about “voting left”, meant to indicate I voted for a Democrat. The entire post is filled with nonsense like that. And Maher haters are eating it up. Peace out bitches. 

[linux 1783]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

I say something. He expends a lot of effort and words to say, you’re wrong. In his response, he says Republicans cry a bunch, completely unaware of the irony, and says Kamala is a centrist candidate, mistaking my comment about “voting left”, meant to indicate I voted for a Democrat. The entire post is filled with nonsense like that. And Maher haters are eating it up. Peace out bitches. 

How can any candidate be considered a leftist candidate if they have the backing of Goldman and Sachs? in pure economic terms based on real historical evidence it is the Democratic party that practices austerity (fiscally responsible economics) and open trade, that is quite literally the real GOP platform BEFORE Trump, wheras Donny does stupid protectionism and handouts (eviction ban, COVID checks, etc). Fascists tend to choose populist economic policies even if they are on paper further to the left than the libertarian wing of the party. 

It is my mission in life for Democrats to finally learn that they need to ditch the Clinton wing of economics, it is a poison pill they refuse to learn because they are owned by corporations. 

[hpslugga 4097]

2 minutes ago, linux said:

How can any candidate be considered a leftist candidate if they have the backing of Goldman and Sachs? in pure economic terms based on real historical evidence it is the Democratic party that practices austerity (fiscally responsible economics) and open trade, that is quite literally the real GOP platform BEFORE Trump, wheras Donny does stupid protectionism and handouts (eviction ban, COVID checks, etc). Fascists tend to choose populist economic policies even if they are on paper further to the left than the libertarian wing of the party

Couldn’t have said it better.

A leftist is someone who favors the dismantlement (or at a bare-assed minimum, the severe overhaul) of capitalism. Kamala Harris and the mainstream of the Democratic Party are precisely neither of those things. Yes, Fox News refers to the Democrats as “the left.” They refer to anyone to the left of Attila the Hun as “the left.” Like I say, that lot does not understand the political compass, much less how and where to plot anyone on it. 

2 minutes ago, linux said:

It is my mission in life for Democrats to finally learn that they need to ditch the Clinton wing of economics, it is a poison pill they refuse to learn because they are owned by corporations. 

Again, couldn’t have said it better. 

[Rex Kramer 1531]

15 minutes ago, linux said:

How can any candidate be considered a leftist candidate if they have the backing of Goldman and Sachs? in pure economic terms based on real historical evidence it is the Democratic party that practices austerity (fiscally responsible economics) and open trade, that is quite literally the real GOP platform BEFORE Trump, wheras Donny does stupid protectionism and handouts (eviction ban, COVID checks, etc). Fascists tend to choose populist economic policies even if they are on paper further to the left than the libertarian wing of the party. 

It is my mission in life for Democrats to finally learn that they need to ditch the Clinton wing of economics, it is a poison pill they refuse to learn because they are owned by corporations. 

First comment, I simply never said that. 

Second, this isn’t Democrats’ problem. Moving away from it will worsen the problem. 

[linux 1783]

Just now, Rex Kramer said:

First comment, I simply never said that. 

Second, this isn’t Democrats’ problem. Moving away from it will worsen the problem. 

There is nothing worse than second place to Trump, absolutely nothing worse. Part of the democrats problem is that they can not even convince their own voters that they want to win. Absolutely everyone thinks that they just want to maintain the status quo, even if it means losing the presidency to a shitstain. They rather lose, get carted off, and smell their own farts because they are sooo much better... 

[Rex Kramer 1531]

4 minutes ago, linux said:

There is nothing worse than second place to Trump, absolutely nothing worse. Part of the democrats problem is that they can not even convince their own voters that they want to win. Absolutely everyone thinks that they just want to maintain the status quo, even if it means losing the presidency to a shitstain. They rather lose, get carted off, and smell their own farts because they are sooo much better... 

None of this addresses my post. 

[linux 1783]

Moving away from it will worsen the problem. 

I replied that there is NO worsening the problem, we ARE in the worst case scenario.

[hpslugga 4097]

10 minutes ago, linux said:

Absolutely everyone thinks that they just want to maintain the status quo, even if it means losing the presidency to a shitstain. They rather lose, get carted off, and smell their own farts because they are sooo much better... 

And it’s hard to counter that perception when the following sentence is 100% accurate:

Any typical, establishment Democratic presidential candidate would rather lose to Trump in a general election than get primaried by a Bernie/AOC type. 

Edited December 8 by hpslugga

[Rex Kramer 1531]

9 minutes ago, linux said:

 

 

I replied that there is NO worsening the problem, we ARE in the worst case scenario.

Sure there is. Dems can continue to lose to nutjobs. 

8 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

And it’s hard to counter that perception when the following sentence is 100% accurate:

Any typical, establishment Democratic presidential candidate would rather lose to Trump in a general election than get primaried by a Bernie/AOC type. 

AOC and Bernie won’t win. You need a candidate that’ll appeal to the center.