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1st overall picks vs the field

dingleberryswitzer

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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Here’s the premise:  construct one roster from just #1 overall draft picks.  Then construct another from anyone else.  
I’m going to stick to guys drafted in my lifetime (1981), but feel free to do yours how you want.

 

1st over all picks:

pg: kyrie / derick rose

sg: Allen Iverson / John wall

sf: lebron

pf: duncan/ Webber 

C : Hakeem /Robinson/shaq

 

The field:

pg: Chris paul / curry / Stockton

sg: jordan / Kobe

Sf: durant / pippen

pf: malone / KG

c : jokic / mourning/ dikembe 

 

Who wins in a best of 7?  I’m not sure myself.  I’d probably go with the field as long as the front court can be serviceable defensively.  Jordan would terrorize the guards on both ends of the court.  

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6023

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Backcourt: Isiah Thomas, MJ, Gary Payton, JKidd, DWade, Harden, premature to say Luka? edit: CP3 needs to be in here too. PG silly deep with options

Frontcourt: KD, Pippen, Dominique, Grant Hill (do I get these guys at their best/pretend they were healthy?) Barkley, KG, Zo, and probably Dike for 6 fouls on the very formidable centers they're up against, edit: add Embiid

Edited by TommyGufano
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19579

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It just goes to show that the draft is rightly all about height. Nobody missed on the bigs and they all went #1 except Embiid, who easily would have if not for the injury red flags. 
Once you get past dominant bigs the draft process gets to be much more of a crap shoot. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19579

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I will take the first rounders. 
they are better at the 3, 4 and 5. Size is typical as the differentiating force if you are talking about everyone playing at their highest and best level. 
Maybe get roasted too much at the guard spot- but I see the 1’s having 4 of the 5 best players (Dream, Shaq, Duncan and LBJ). That’s 4 of the top 15 players ever?  Meanwhile the field has probably the GOAT in Jordan and Kobe barely outside the top 10 and maybe KD at the back end of the top 15?  
 

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6023

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1 minute ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

This group is not getting swept and doesn't need the opponents to be limited to picks 2-5, especially with a wealth of big guys to smash in the paint 

Magic 

Iverson 

LeBron 

Olajuwon

Shaq

Magic not within original parameters 

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3362

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It just goes to show that the draft is rightly all about height. Nobody missed on the bigs and they all went #1 except Embiid, who easily would have if not for the injury red flags. 
Once you get past dominant bigs the draft process gets to be much more of a crap shoot. 
Plenty of #1 bigs were misses. Off the top of my head there's Olowokandi, kwame brown, Oden, pervis Ellison, joe Smith.
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19579

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:
48 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:
It just goes to show that the draft is rightly all about height. Nobody missed on the bigs and they all went #1 except Embiid, who easily would have if not for the injury red flags. 
Once you get past dominant bigs the draft process gets to be much more of a crap shoot. 

Plenty of #1 bigs were misses. Off the top of my head there's Olowokandi, kwame brown, Oden, pervis Ellison, joe Smith.

Yeah- that wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is nobody ever misses a dominant big man bc of the bias to always take bigs. Plenty of busts bc of people taking bigs hoping they will be that guy. 
IOW you can talk yourself out of taking Luca or MJ but nobody ever talks themselves out of taking Hakeem or Shaq. Said it bad. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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gsoda3

gsoda3 3362

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Yeah- that wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is nobody ever misses a dominant big man bc of the bus’s to always take bigs. Plenty of busts bc of people taking bigs hoping they will be that guy. 
IOW you can talk yourself out of taking Luca or MJ but nobody ever talks themselves out of taking Hakeem or Shaq. Said it bad. 
Gotcha.
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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah- that wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is nobody ever misses a dominant big man bc of the bias to always take bigs. Plenty of busts bc of people taking bigs hoping they will be that guy. 
IOW you can talk yourself out of taking Luca or MJ but nobody ever talks themselves out of taking Hakeem or Shaq. Said it bad. 

I agree.  I found it really interesting that there wasn’t a single center drafted after #1 that no one would even put in the conversation as the best center ever.  Like, in 40 years there was never 2 great centers centers in the same draft, no lucky diamonds in the rough. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19579

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2 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I agree.  I found it really interesting that there wasn’t a single center drafted after #1 that no one would even put in the conversation as the best center ever.  Like, in 40 years there was never 2 great centers centers in the same draft, no lucky diamonds in the rough. 

Embiid is the closest. He never would have fallen without a billion injury red flags. 

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Generally these hypotheticals come down to the "Does your team have MJ on it?" flow chart. Not sure why this one would be any different.

15 posts to get to Kareem.

 

LOLz.

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15 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

in a thread where OP limits topic to players drafted since 1981. 

LOLz.

but feel free to do yours how you want.

LOLz

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ztejas

ztejas 44223

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4 hours ago, ztejas said:

Generally these hypotheticals come down to the "Does your team have MJ on it?" flow chart. Not sure why this one would be any different.

Although maybe it should be the "does your team have KD on it?" flow chart. 

Since you get both of them I'll ride with the irrelevants.

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ztejas

ztejas 44223

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

I think LeBron and MJ cancel each other out. How are you going to stop Shaq and Hakeem? 

Since there's not any super skilled big that didn't go #1 I think you'd just take a flier on someone like Gobert or Mutombo maybe that can play really good D and hopefully slow one of those guys down. Wallace or Zo might be good too but they just straight up aren't as tall and I feel like you'd need to throw a 7 footer at Shaq and Dream or Duncan.

Also you get KG who has an argument for being the greatest defender we've ever seen in his prime. 

Give me peak CP3, MJ, KD, KG and Dikembe and you can throw out any lineup you want - real or imaginary - and I like my chances. 

Off the bench you get Curry and Kobe as microwaves - maybe throw Wade in there too - and you can scratch together enough minutes from Mutombo/Gobert and maybe throw Wallace in there against certain lineups. 

Yeah Shaq is a problem but the 1s are way shittier and less deep at the guard spots - I think that more than evens out. You're welcome to call MJ and LeBron a wash. 

Shit - if you promise me that Embiid is healthy I might take him with the #2s.

And if we go back further than '81 - okay they get Magic, cool, we get Bird. Although Magic fills a much bigger hole for that team. 

Edited by ztejas
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ztejas

ztejas 44223

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3 minutes ago, slorch said:

say what?  

He isn't my personal pick but it's not the craziest thing you could argue. He's probably the most versatile defender ever. At his absolute peak in 2004 his stats were nutty. Led the league in all kinds of metrics including rebounds per game and had 1.5 steals and 2.2 blocks per game on just 2.5 fouls. The "he can guard 1-5" cliche gets tossed around sometimes and is basically never true but KG could actually do it.

He generally trends on pretty underrated as a player as he didn't have as much team success as his contemporaries. 

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11 minutes ago, ztejas said:

He isn't my personal pick but it's not the craziest thing you could argue. He's probably the most versatile defender ever. At his absolute peak in 2004 his stats were nutty. Led the league in all kinds of metrics including rebounds per game and had 1.5 steals and 2.2 blocks per game on just 2.5 fouls. The "he can guard 1-5" cliche gets tossed around sometimes and is basically never true but KG could actually do it.

He generally trends on pretty underrated as a player as he didn't have as much team success as his contemporaries. 

Best Playoffs (no game minimum)

Kevin Garnett 27.0  
(2003)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 37.5  
(1988)
 
Kevin Garnett 18.7  
(2002)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 16.8  
(1988)
 
Kevin Garnett 8.8  
(2000)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 4.8  
(1993)
 
Kevin Garnett 1.9  
(2011)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 2.5  
(1990)
 
Kevin Garnett 2.4  
(1998)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 5.8  
(1990)

 
 
KG had more first team all defense(12) than Dream's9
Dream had 2 DPOTY to KG's 1 
Garnett was great but I'm not picking him before Olajuwon, even without the offensive end.

 

Edited by slorch
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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5901

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Since there's not any super skilled big that didn't go #1 I think you'd just take a flier on someone like Gobert or Mutombo maybe that can play really good D and hopefully slow one of those guys down. Wallace or Zo might be good too but they just straight up aren't as tall and I feel like you'd need to throw a 7 footer at Shaq and Dream or Duncan.

Also you get KG who has an argument for being the greatest defender we've ever seen in his prime. 

Give me peak CP3, MJ, KD, KG and Dikembe and you can throw out any lineup you want - real or imaginary - and I like my chances. 

Off the bench you get Curry and Kobe as microwaves - maybe throw Wade in there too - and you can scratch together enough minutes from Mutombo/Gobert and maybe throw Wallace in there against certain lineups. 

Yeah Shaq is a problem but the 1s are way shittier and less deep at the guard spots - I think that more than evens out. You're welcome to call MJ and LeBron a wash. 

Shit - if you promise me that Embiid is healthy I might take him with the #2s.

And if we go back further than '81 - okay they get Magic, cool, we get Bird. Although Magic fills a much bigger hole for that team. 

Being excited about KG and Dikembe covering Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan is like me being excited about Ben Simmons covering KD. You don't have a decent answer for me in the paint, and I don't have a decent answer for KD at SF. Zion maybe? 

Like you said Magic does so much more for the 1s than Bird does for the field. Depth at guard could be an issue for the 1s, but I'm fine with Magic, Iverson, Irving, Rose, and Wall. We need The Glove who should have been a number one pick 

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ztejas

ztejas 44223

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2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Best Playoffs (no game minimum)

Kevin Garnett 27.0  
(2003)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 37.5  
(1988)
 
Kevin Garnett 18.7  
(2002)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 16.8  
(1988)
 
Kevin Garnett 8.8  
(2000)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 4.8  
(1993)
 
Kevin Garnett 1.9  
(2011)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 2.5  
(1990)
 
Kevin Garnett 2.4  
(1998)
 
 
Hakeem Olajuwon 5.8  
(1990)

 
 
KG had more first team all defense(12) than Dream's9
Dream had 2 DPOTY to KG's 1 

 

What is this? Did you read my post or are you just vomiting Hakeem stats on the thread? 

I think we all know Hakeem was a better player. That doesn't make him a more versatile defender or really address anything I wrote.

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ztejas

ztejas 44223

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3 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Being excited about KG and Dikembe covering Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan is like me being excited about Ben Simmons covering KD.

Hey... I didn't say I was excited about it. Shaq's gonna get his 30 but I can at least make him sweat a bit. MJ and KD are gonna get theirs no matter what you draw up, too. 

Edited by ztejas
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HookEm

HookEm 2509

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For a slightly different twist on the question, rank these teams by draft pick (Since 1978):

 #2 Picks

  • PG – Isiah Thomas ’84 – #5 MVP
  • SG – Jason Kidd ’02 – #2 MVP
  • SF – Gary Payton ’98 – #3 MVP
  • PF – Kevin Durant ’14 - MVP
  • C – Alonzo Mourning ’99 – #2 MVP, DPoY
  • B1 – LaMarcus Aldridge ’15 - #7 MVP
  • B2 – Tyson Chandler ’12 – DPoY

#3 Picks

  • PG – James Harden ’18 - MVP
  • SG – Michael Jordan ’96 - MVP
  • SF – Dominique Wilkins ’86 - #2 MVP
  • PF – Kevin McHale ’87 - #4 MVP
  • C – Pau Gasol ’11 - 2nd Team NBA
  • B1 – Penny Hardaway ’96 - #3 MVP
  • B2 – Carmelo Anthony ’13 – #3 MVP

#4 Picks

  • PG – Chris Paul ’12 - #3 MVP
  • SG – Russell Westbrook ’16 - MVP
  • SF - Glen Rice ’97 - #5 MVP
  • PF – Chris Bosh ’07 - #7 MVP
  • C – Dikembe Mutombo - #13 MVP, DPoY
  • B1 – Rasheed Wallace ’05 – All Star
  • B2 – Mike Conley ’13 – All Def

 #5 Picks

  • PG – Ray Allen ’05 - #9 MVP
  • SG – Dwyane Wade ’09 - #3 MVP
  • SF – Scottie Pippin ’94 - #2 MVP
  • PF – Charles Barkley ‘93 - MVP
  • C – Kevin Garnett ’04 - MVP
  • B1 – Vince Carter ’01 – 2nd Team NBA
  • B2 – Kevin Love ’12 - #6 MVP

#6 Picks

  • PG – Damian Lillard ’18 - #4 MVP
  • SG – Brandon Roy ’09 - #9 MVP
  • SF – Larry Bird ’85 - MVP
  • PF – Antoine Walker ’98 - #12 MVP
  • C – Chris Kaman ’10 – All Star
  • B1 – Hersey Hawkins ’91 – All Star
  • B2 – Wally Szczerbiak ’02 – All-Star

#7 Picks

  • PG – Steph Curry ’16 - MVP
  • SG – Kevin Johnson ’91 - #7 MVP
  • SF – Chris Mullin ’92 - #6 MVP
  • PF – Julius Randle ’21 - #8 MVP
  • C – Roy Tarpley ‘88 – 6th MOY
  • B1 – Alvin Robertson ‘86 - #13 MVP, DPoY
  • B2 – Rip Hamilton ’07 – All-Star

#13 Picks

  • PG – Donovan Mitchell ’21 – All-Star
  • SG – Devin Booker ’21 – All Star
  • SF – Kobe Bryant ‘08 - MVP
  • PF – Karl Malone ’97 - MVP
  • C – Dale Davis ’00 – All Star
  • B2 – Sleepy Floyd ’87 – All Star
  • B – Zach LaVine ’21 – All Star
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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6023

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The #1's team that one of yall put together can't shoot for shit. LeBron by far the best floor spacer in that lineup, and though he's a better shooter than his detractors would have you believe, he's still a far cry from a knockdown shooter. So Hakeem and Shaq are getting 4 defenders in the paint.

And there might not be a better 4th or 5th banana imaginable than KG, because he was such a beta bitch on offense. He's being super passive? Great. We have 4 guys who are better scorers anyway. Add to that he was a very good passer and can reasonably spread the floor PLUS he can defend 3 positions and that's guy I want filling out my starting 5. At some point these mega stars cannibalize one another. With KG pretty much nothing gets sacrificed when you knock him down to 8 shots per 48

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ztejas

ztejas 44223

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, HookEm said:

For a slightly different twist on the question, rank these teams by draft pick (Since 1978):

 #2 Picks

  • PG – Isiah Thomas ’84 – #5 MVP
  • SG – Jason Kidd ’02 – #2 MVP
  • SF – Gary Payton ’98 – #3 MVP
  • PF – Kevin Durant ’14 - MVP
  • C – Alonzo Mourning ’99 – #2 MVP, DPoY
  • B1 – LaMarcus Aldridge ’15 - #7 MVP
  • B2 – Tyson Chandler ’12 – DPoY

#3 Picks

  • PG – James Harden ’18 - MVP
  • SG – Michael Jordan ’96 - MVP
  • SF – Dominique Wilkins ’86 - #2 MVP
  • PF – Kevin McHale ’87 - #4 MVP
  • C – Pau Gasol ’11 - 2nd Team NBA
  • B1 – Penny Hardaway ’96 - #3 MVP
  • B2 – Carmelo Anthony ’13 – #3 MVP

#4 Picks

  • PG – Chris Paul ’12 - #3 MVP
  • SG – Russell Westbrook ’16 - MVP
  • SF - Glen Rice ’97 - #5 MVP
  • PF – Chris Bosh ’07 - #7 MVP
  • C – Dikembe Mutombo - #13 MVP, DPoY
  • B1 – Rasheed Wallace ’05 – All Star
  • B2 – Mike Conley ’13 – All Def

 #5 Picks

  • PG – Ray Allen ’05 - #9 MVP
  • SG – Dwyane Wade ’09 - #3 MVP
  • SF – Scottie Pippin ’94 - #2 MVP
  • PF – Charles Barkley ‘93 - MVP
  • C – Kevin Garnett ’04 - MVP
  • B1 – Vince Carter ’01 – 2nd Team NBA
  • B2 – Kevin Love ’12 - #6 MVP

#6 Picks

  • PG – Damian Lillard ’18 - #4 MVP
  • SG – Brandon Roy ’09 - #9 MVP
  • SF – Larry Bird ’85 - MVP
  • PF – Antoine Walker ’98 - #12 MVP
  • C – Chris Kaman ’10 – All Star
  • B1 – Hersey Hawkins ’91 – All Star
  • B2 – Wally Szczerbiak ’02 – All-Star

#7 Picks

  • PG – Steph Curry ’16 - MVP
  • SG – Kevin Johnson ’91 - #7 MVP
  • SF – Chris Mullin ’92 - #6 MVP
  • PF – Julius Randle ’21 - #8 MVP
  • C – Roy Tarpley ‘88 – 6th MOY
  • B1 – Alvin Robertson ‘86 - #13 MVP, DPoY
  • B2 – Rip Hamilton ’07 – All-Star

#13 Picks

  • PG – Donovan Mitchell ’21 – All-Star
  • SG – Devin Booker ’21 – All Star
  • SF – Kobe Bryant ‘08 - MVP
  • PF – Karl Malone ’97 - MVP
  • C – Dale Davis ’00 – All Star
  • B2 – Sleepy Floyd ’87 – All Star
  • B – Zach LaVine ’21 – All Star

I'll go #3, #5, #2 in that order. MJ still MJ and you're leaving Luka off the team. That #5 team is sneaky good though. Wade would have to play point but he can. I'd probably dig a little deeper to find a true PG to come off the bench. (Didn't Trae go #5?)

The #13s have some crazy talent but that seems like a disaster waiting to happen. 

Edited by ztejas
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