Buying a New Vehicle in this environment

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

26% of Texans pay more than $1,000/month for a car payment. FAFO.
 
 

Holy shit. That is crazy.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

26% of Texans pay more than $1,000/month for a car payment. FAFO.

 

 

lol.

more $30K millionaires per capita than anywhere else in the world.

[swraith 345]

That is a lot of fancy trucks that never leave payment.

[CooterBrown 18004]

41 minutes ago, swraith said:

That is a lot of fancy trucks that never leave payment.

I'm not sure if that's a typo or not because it also applies.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

26% of Texans pay more than $1,000/month for a car payment. FAFO.

 

 

Assuming that graphic is accurate, it's going to absolutely be the trucks. They are ridiculously priced and they are everywhere in this state. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

If you told me that 26% of Texans, with a vehicle payment, have a payment over $1,000, I could believe it.  I don't believe it's 26% overall.

[fattyflattie 4639]

18 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If you told me that 26% of Texans, with a vehicle payment, have a payment over $1,000, I could believe it.  I don't believe it's 26% overall.

Agree.  I bet there's a shitload over $1250 even.  I can't recall the last time I saw an XLT 250/350.  It's either Lariat or the premium packages.  And last time I saw a gas one in the wild, who knows.   You're looking at 70k plus easy.  And they are everywhere.

[52-80 19147]

On 8/8/2023 at 3:18 PM, CooterBrown said:

26% of Texans pay more than $1,000/month for a car payment. FAFO.

 

 

26% of texan borrowers *maybe*. this is national number:

16.8% of consumers who financed a new vehicle in Q1 2023 committed to a monthly payment of $1,000 or more — a new all-time high according to Edmunds — compared to 10.3% in Q1 2022 and 6.2% in Q1 2021

and then what fraction of those are private consumers vs business/expensable use

[BabaYaga 15288]

Between the dad's truck and mom's giant SUV, I get it.  Of course some may be able to afford it and are opting for a shorter amortization period just to get it paid off.  

[gmr548 16576]

If you told me that 26% of Texans, with a vehicle payment, have a payment over $1,000, I could believe it.  I don't believe it's 26% overall.

And those who financed within the last year or two at that.

[Skipper 6128]

Anyone been in the market recently?  Need to upsize my wife's almost 8 YO Jeep Grand Cherokee to something larger.  Curious if dealerships are still regularly charging above MSRP or if that BS is dying down.  Was hoping with these rates things were getting better but I see Texans are just financing at these idiotic rates.  I'll be paying cash with these rates unless I need to "finance" to get a better deal (in which case, I'll confirm no prepayment penalty and write a check the next month).

[zman13 178]

2 hours ago, Skipper said:

Anyone been in the market recently?  Need to upsize my wife's almost 8 YO Jeep Grand Cherokee to something larger.  Curious if dealerships are still regularly charging above MSRP or if that BS is dying down.  Was hoping with these rates things were getting better but I see Texans are just financing at these idiotic rates.  I'll be paying cash with these rates unless I need to "finance" to get a better deal (in which case, I'll confirm no prepayment penalty and write a check the next month).

Having shopped around recently, it all depends on the vehicle popularity. If you want a Ford Maverick, it'll be 5k to 10k over MSRP. If you want something that's not selling, MSRP or slightly below. 

[Skipper 6128]

6 minutes ago, zman13 said:

Having shopped around recently, it all depends on the vehicle popularity. If you want a Ford Maverick, it'll be 5k to 10k over MSRP. If you want something that's not selling, MSRP or slightly below. 

Probably time to start researching.  Need something like a Tahoe although doesn't necessarily have to be a Tahoe assuming Tahoe's are still impossible to get a deal on.  

[millhouse 2603]

We were in the same boat and were looking at the Tahoe and the Expedition. Ford was doing 0.9/1.9/2.9 for 36/48/60 month financing. That was way lower than anything else so we went with the expedition. No mark up, even was under MSRP. We're in AZ though.

[drewlaws 126]

Anyone been in the market recently?  Need to upsize my wife's almost 8 YO Jeep Grand Cherokee to something larger.  Curious if dealerships are still regularly charging above MSRP or if that BS is dying down.  Was hoping with these rates things were getting better but I see Texans are just financing at these idiotic rates.  I'll be paying cash with these rates unless I need to "finance" to get a better deal (in which case, I'll confirm no prepayment penalty and write a check the next month).

I ordered a Yukon last November at MSRP from Covert Bastrop and the environment has only improved since then. That said, the Covert on 183 tried to charge $10k over sticker at the time. It took 2-3 months to arrive.

[Armybrat 40822]

On 8/14/2023 at 4:39 PM, zman13 said:

Having shopped around recently, it all depends on the vehicle popularity. If you want a Ford Maverick, it'll be 5k to 10k over MSRP. If you want something that's not selling, MSRP or slightly below. 

What about Honda Accords and Civics?

[zman13 178]

On 8/16/2023 at 1:34 PM, Armybrat said:

What about Honda Accords and Civics?

Still 3k to 4k over MSRP in Austin. Can be cheaper in San Antonio.

[El Tri 412]

1 hour ago, zman13 said:

Still 3k to 4k over MSRP in Austin. Can be cheaper in San Antonio.

never ever buy in austin

[CooterBrown 18004]

18 hours ago, zman13 said:

Still 3k to 4k over MSRP in Austin. Can be cheaper in San Antonio.

Definitely shop around.  When I bought my kid a car last November, Austin Subaru was marking up cars $4,000.  West Houston Subaru sold cars at MSRP. A $150 one way flight and a $70 Uber ride to pick up the car was well worth the savings.

[Your Mom 4805]

Whatever you’re shopping for, there is certainly an online forum for that make and model.  Go to that forum and the enthusiasts of that particular car will know which dealers in your area charge bullshit dealer add-on fees and which don’t. 
For example, in Austin, it’s pretty well known among the Toyota fanboys that Cedar Park Toyota doesn’t charge those fees while Autonation down south usually does. Even on a hot vehicle like a Tacoma or 4Runner. They might add some window tint and paint protection, or a port add-on package of options, but you’re getting something for that money. They won’t be marking up way above MSRP just because they can like you see at other dealers. 

[bschoolprof 6252]

I got my last car in SA and saved 2-3K vs Austin.  

[YGIFS 19449]

I was thinking about buying an Indian Motorcycle to save on fuel once the weather is milder.  But I'm just now finding out they're not even made in India.  

[El Tri 412]

On 8/19/2023 at 7:13 AM, bschoolprof said:

I got my last car in SA and saved 2-3K vs Austin.  

yup both of our last 2 cars have been purchased in San Antonio. Austin dealerships suck

[Deej 76755]

12 hours ago, El Tri said:

Austin sucks

fify

[animaltobacco11 107]

Priced out a 2023 Escalade ESV with premium features-- definitely can see how monthly payments are $1250+

I posted this on the truck thread, but my buddy got a brand new F250 premium two months ago and paid $109k (w TT&L).

My hypothesis is that, if you are smart and patient and have the privilege to wait it out, you will be able to get some great deals in the next 2-5 years once the credit card and car defaults start happening. Lagging indicators and what not.

[Guest]

$109K for a truck. People have lost their minds.

[ChickenSandwich 9828]

6 hours ago, animaltobacco11 said:

Priced out a 2023 Escalade ESV with premium features-- definitely can see how monthly payments are $1250+

I posted this on the truck thread, but my buddy got a brand new F250 premium two months ago and paid $109k (w TT&L).

My hypothesis is that, if you are smart and patient and have the privilege to wait it out, you will be able to get some great deals in the next 2-5 years once the credit card and car defaults start happening. Lagging indicators and what not.

nationwide the rate of vehicle repos had increased a whopping 20.4%. The bad news is it looks like this is only the beginning of a trend that continues to grow.
 

https://autos.yahoo.com/autos/car-repossessions-rise-120000818.html

[txduck87 985]

$109K for a truck. People have lost their minds.

Most people are financially illiterate.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, txduck87 said:

Most people are financially illiterate.

May absolutely have the means to afford it, I don't know. Even so, it seems wild to me.

[Skipper 6128]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

May absolutely have the means to afford it, I don't know. Even so, it seems wild to me.

Most people with means to afford shit like that have the means to afford it because they have made financial decisions over the past 10-20 years that don't include things like spending 109K on a fucking truck (no doubt financed at today's stupid rates).  I see some of the financial decisions some of my wife's extended family makes and it blows my mind.  We probably have 8X annual income of those I'm thinking of and they spend way more freely in a bunch of different categories than we do (then bitch about not having savings).  We live in a country of morons.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Skipper

[animaltobacco11 107]

28 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Most people with means to afford shit like that have the means to afford it because they have made financial decisions over the past 10-20 years that don't include things like spending 109K on a fucking truck (no doubt financed at today's stupid rates).  I see some of the financial decisions some of my wife's extended family makes and it blows my mind.  We probably have 8X annual income of those I'm thinking of and they spend way more freely in a bunch of different categories than we do (then bitch about not having savings).  We live in a country of morons.

It's because he's almost 50, inherited a huge house from his parents when he was in his 30's, been a high earner (300-500k) for 15 years+, and has zero kids (DINK).

His toys are enviable. 

[Skipper 6128]

16 minutes ago, animaltobacco11 said:

It's because he's almost 50, inherited a huge house from his parents when he was in his 30's, been a high earner (300-500k) for 15 years+, and has zero kids (DINK).

His toys are enviable. 

Ha.  Ok - I mean in that case maybe he can justify wasting 100K on a truck.  Most buyers probably aren't in that position.  

[fattyflattie 4639]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:45 AM, FirstTimeCaller said:

$109K for a truck. People have lost their minds.

I saw a single wheel 350 limited for 124 not long ago. Fucking amazing. 

[animaltobacco11 107]

16 hours ago, Skipper said:

Ha.  Ok - I mean in that case maybe he can justify wasting 100K on a truck.  Most buyers probably aren't in that position.  

I don't know anyone else paying $100k+ for a vehicle and my personal network/peers consists almost entirely of very high income people with decent net worth (not like multimillionaires or anything), just upper middle class professionals. Well except one guy who bought an Aston Martin who is also a mid 40 year old DINK who had back to back 7 figure w2 years.

I think the whole "wow the average American has an $1100 car note and are buying crazy expensive vehicles" isn't true. Maybe they have two car notes that combine to $1000+, sure.

[PilotsError 2286]

20 minutes ago, animaltobacco11 said:

I don't know anyone else paying $100k+ for a vehicle and my personal network/peers consists almost entirely of very high income people with decent net worth (not like multimillionaires or anything), just upper middle class professionals. Well except one guy who bought an Aston Martin who is also a mid 40 year old DINK who had back to back 7 figure w2 years.

I think the whole "wow the average American has an $1100 car note and are buying crazy expensive vehicles" isn't true. Maybe they have two car notes that combine to $1000+, sure.

no it’s single notes over a thousand. 

[bluto 4913]

How is a 1k car note difficult to comprehend when a new full size suv is 60k at 60mos even without interest (and what kinda rube puts money down?!), oh and you gotta roll the upside down note into the new car financing too. 

[animaltobacco11 107]

4 minutes ago, bluto said:

How is a 1k car note difficult to comprehend when a new full size suv is 60k at 60mos even without interest (and what kinda rube puts money down?!), oh and you gotta roll the upside down note into the new car financing too. 

Not difficult to comprehend, just difficult to imagine the common rube, as you put it, doing it. At least I don't see it anecdotely. The common rube I see seems instead to be getting ripped off by paying $550/month for a high mileage, 10 year old vehicle.

[Skipper 6128]

1 hour ago, animaltobacco11 said:

I don't know anyone else paying $100k+ for a vehicle and my personal network/peers consists almost entirely of very high income people with decent net worth (not like multimillionaires or anything), just upper middle class professionals. Well except one guy who bought an Aston Martin who is also a mid 40 year old DINK who had back to back 7 figure w2 years.

I think the whole "wow the average American has an $1100 car note and are buying crazy expensive vehicles" isn't true. Maybe they have two car notes that combine to $1000+, sure.

I'm the same (and even the super high net worth people I'm around don't really waste money on $100K+ cars), but I also don't live in Frisco or McKinney or similar.  Maybe I'm stereotyping with that statement but you combine the current new car pricing (particularly SUV's and trucks) with current interest rates and you have a shitload of people with $1000+ car note.  There is no way around it.  Just because you and I don't know them personally doesn't mean they aren't out there.  Because I don't think there is any chance it's all super high net worth people paying cash for $70-$110K cars that result in Tahoe's, Escalades, etc. etc. selling at or over MSRP.  I read through Car Dealership Guy tweets the other day after coming across him and one thing that stuck out was something like over 65% of consumers with $1000+ monthly payment financed over 8.5%.  That's crazy.  I think it really is the combo of inflation + low inventory + interest rates that have made what might have been considered a "reasonable" purchase 2013-2020 completely unreasonable now.  And people refuse to downgrade when looking for a new car.

Back on topic, I'm not in a rush but thinking about going the step down from the large SUV to something like the Atlas, Telluride, etc. as I don't need towing capacity and the step down probably has enough room.  Toyoya has a new Grand Highlander that's caught my eye but those just started hitting lots and selling at a premium.  Once the initial rush settles down would like to check it out.  Started following a facebook group on those and numerous people are talking about trading in 2 and 3 year old Highlanders or 4Runners just to get the next "new" Toyoya product.  Another WTF.

[animaltobacco11 107]

36 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I'm the same (and even the super high net worth people I'm around don't really waste money on $100K+ cars), but I also don't live in Frisco or McKinney or similar.  Maybe I'm stereotyping with that statement but you combine the current new car pricing (particularly SUV's and trucks) with current interest rates and you have a shitload of people with $1000+ car note.  There is no way around it.  Just because you and I don't know them personally doesn't mean they aren't out there.  Because I don't think there is any chance it's all super high net worth people paying cash for $70-$110K cars that result in Tahoe's, Escalades, etc. etc. selling at or over MSRP.  I read through Car Dealership Guy tweets the other day after coming across him and one thing that stuck out was something like over 65% of consumers with $1000+ monthly payment financed over 8.5%.  That's crazy.  I think it really is the combo of inflation + low inventory + interest rates that have made what might have been considered a "reasonable" purchase 2013-2020 completely unreasonable now.  And people refuse to downgrade when looking for a new car.

Back on topic, I'm not in a rush but thinking about going the step down from the large SUV to something like the Atlas, Telluride, etc. as I don't need towing capacity and the step down probably has enough room.  Toyoya has a new Grand Highlander that's caught my eye but those just started hitting lots and selling at a premium.  Once the initial rush settles down would like to check it out.  Started following a facebook group on those and numerous people are talking about trading in 2 and 3 year old Highlanders or 4Runners just to get the next "new" Toyoya product.  Another WTF.

I'm with you on the first paragraph. I have plenty of money and ability to do it, but I just feel like it's wrong to finance and have a $1200 car note or spend $80k on a car. I have luxury vehicles and have a nice car that you reference, but purchased right before Covid, so maybe I'm just being old and obstinate and don't understand the new normal, but I'm going to wait this thing out and see if there isn't a bubble popping before buying a new vehicle (I really, really like the new Lincoln Navigators).

[Sbbruin 21829]

1 hour ago, animaltobacco11 said:

Not difficult to comprehend, just difficult to imagine the common rube, as you put it, doing it. At least I don't see it anecdotely. The common rube I see seems instead to be getting ripped off by paying $550/month for a high mileage, 10 year old vehicle.

You'd be amazed at the number of people that stretch to their last dollar to buy a car that is out of their reach.  Certainly in car culture SoCal you see it all the time.  Can't put food on the table but damn look at my M5.

[Skipper 6128]

12 minutes ago, animaltobacco11 said:

I'm with you on the first paragraph. I have plenty of money and ability to do it, but I just feel like it's wrong to finance and have a $1200 car note or spend $80k on a car. I have luxury vehicles and have a nice car that you reference, but purchased right before Covid, so maybe I'm just being old and obstinate and don't understand the new normal, but I'm going to wait this thing out and see if there isn't a bubble popping before buying a new vehicle (I really, really like the new Lincoln Navigators).

Yeah, it's just a shitty environment.  Both our current vehicles have been paid off a couple of years now but were financed at 0% (and their wasn't any cash discount available).  Now those $25 or 30K notes (after trade-ins) would be $50K+ notes after trade-ins on the same vehicle, and if we wanted to finance, even with great credit scores, it would be well over 5%.  And right now cash is drawing > 4%.  We really do need more space but trying to hold out as long as I can on my wife's new car but will probably have to just bite the bullet and cut a check in the next 6 months.  P.S. - My wife loves the Navigator as well, all things equal that would be her choice, but really try to talk her into that we don't need THAT much space.

[Deej 76755]

27 minutes ago, Skipper said:

My wife loves the Navigator as well, all things equal that would be her choice, but really try to talk her into that we don't need THAT much space.

Narrator: "They ended up buying the Navigator."

[fattyflattie 4639]

I believe the 1000$ note without a doubt.  Money has been damn near free for the last few decades, and writing a 70k check for a pickup is difficult to wrap your head around.  What I don’t get is all the 90k grand wagoners and shit running around. Crazy.  
 

just hit POC for a weekend. You’ll see at least 5 100k trucks towing ~200k scbs.  Yes, 200k bay boats.    20+ year loans, just making them payments on that shift work schedule.  Noting to see here. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by fattyflattie

[Captainant 27637]

20 hours ago, Skipper said:

Yeah, it's just a shitty environment.  Both our current vehicles have been paid off a couple of years now but were financed at 0% (and their wasn't any cash discount available).  Now those $25 or 30K notes (after trade-ins) would be $50K+ notes after trade-ins on the same vehicle, and if we wanted to finance, even with great credit scores, it would be well over 5%.  And right now cash is drawing > 4%.  We really do need more space but trying to hold out as long as I can on my wife's new car but will probably have to just bite the bullet and cut a check in the next 6 months.  P.S. - My wife loves the Navigator as well, all things equal that would be her choice, but really try to talk her into that we don't need THAT much space.

This is no joke - I just finished paying off my 2019 Jeep Cherokee this summer, and if I were to get the same trim and features in a 2023 Cherokee I'm looking at at least $10k more. That's nearly a 30% price increase in 5 years! Fuckin looney toons.

 

8 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

just hit POC for a weekend. You’ll see at least 5 100k trucks towing ~200k scbs.  Yes, 200k bay boats.    20+ year loans, just making them payments on that shift work schedule.  Noting to see here. 

POC is such a funny little town, during the big fishing tournaments like a few weeks ago there's probably a few hundred million bucks just in 50ft+ fishing boats in the canal, and on the off weekends is a sleepy quiet town. Horrible news about the recent big fish kill, gonna be thin fishing for a while

[fattyflattie 4639]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

This is no joke - I just finished paying off my 2019 Jeep Cherokee this summer, and if I were to get the same trim and features in a 2023 Cherokee I'm looking at at least $10k more. That's nearly a 30% price increase in 5 years! Fuckin looney toons.

 

POC is such a funny little town, during the big fishing tournaments like a few weeks ago there's probably a few hundred million bucks just in 50ft+ fishing boats in the canal, and on the off weekends is a sleepy quiet town. Horrible news about the recent big fish kill, gonna be thin fishing for a while

100m?  That’s a bit low, but yeah. There’s several that are fishing POCO that are (just barely) 8 figure rides. Several ACYs in the ~12m range.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

I know that people need vehicles, sometimes immediately, but $1000 payments hurt anyone’s future financial health. Sure someone making 7 figures won’t care but that person should just pay cash for that vehicle anyway. Based on that logic no one should sign up for a 1K payment.

I also wonder if some of these 1k payment folks watch a video about how to manipulate your taxes and write off any vehicle payment. 

[Clintonaldo 2573]

If the UAW goes on strike it’s going to fuck everything up again. 

[52-80 19147]

no need to rehash old argument

• The average monthly payment for new vehicles hit a record high of $730 in Q1 2023, compared to $656 in Q1 2022.

• 16.8% of consumers who financed a new vehicle in Q1 2023 committed to a monthly payment of $1,000 or more — a new all-time high according to Edmunds — compared to 10.3% in Q1 2022 and 6.2% in Q1 2021.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

My last car payment (2018-21) was just over $700. It was painful to see that payment each month and I like to think that I make a fairly decent wage compared to the average. I eventually just made myself pay off the loan early. Can't imagine the average new payment is now over that, and I'm sure more than a few have 2 active payments.

Hopefully more people are starting to learn that vehicles can be viewed as a commodity and understand the financial benefit to drive a car for 8+ years. If not 10+ years. I understand that people use vehicles differently and have a wide range of annual miles driven. I live in Houston and drive less than 10K miles/yr. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Nice Guy Eddie

[midtown 3345]

It's not the payment that's the problem its payment to income.  $1000 payment when you are making $5k a month is a problem.  It's not an issue if you make $20k a month.   But very few people make $20k a month.  And anyone financing anything at 7 or 8% is insane.  My current note is $963 on a 1.9%.  Got it in May of 2022.  It would have been dumb for me to pay cash at that rate and my payment is a low single digit of my mthly income. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by midtown