Jump to content

Buying a New Vehicle in this environment

Royalfan5

By Royalfan5
in Business and Markets

 Share

Recommended Posts

Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted

Isn't the concept of leasing that you pay for the depreciated portion of the car over your contract plus some profit for the leasing company?

IF used cars are holding their value more now, then in theory the car is depreciating less and therefore the lease payment is relatively more reasonable than a finance payment.  However I have no idea if this is occurring in practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 630
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Texas St. Armadillos
Texas St. Armadillos

Because she's a cunZ.

midtown
midtown

Used and new.  I've heard stories that dealers are dumping unsold new cars at auction now.  Fuck those guys. I hope they get annihilated for all the gouging they did during the pandemic. 

Elvis
Elvis

Yes I see the irony. 

Posted Images

gyroprotagonist

gyroprotagonist 2592

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, torre said:

Interesting conversation.    Should leasing be included in the exchange ?

I have never leased,  always considered/tempted.

(could not find figures for '23,  article from June '23)

 

  • About 18% of new cars were leased in Q3 2022.
  • Lease payments are generally less expensive than financing payments on a new car.
  • The average car lease payment in Q2 2022 was $540 per month, and the average lease term is 36 months.
  • Leases also may require down payments, plus acquisition fees up front.
  • You face additional fees when you return the car at the end of the lease.
  • https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-lease-a-car-5186685

I have leased twice in my life.  (many moons ago) My work had a car allowance and i had to get a certain type of car (no truck/SUV allowed at the time).  So leased a sedan to get the payment close to the allowance.  First lease term is up and I went to Carmax to get a quote and their buy price was above the residual/balloon payment so I went ahead and sold it Carmax and pocketed the difference.  Saved me from having to buy new tires as well.  Second time i shopped around, but it was cheaper to turn the lease in as the used value was lower than the residual.

I would think it would be a no brainer to get financing at anything < 3% when your money can sit FDIC insured and earn 5%.  If the rate dips at the bank, then pull the trigger and pay off the note.

Cars are just crazy stupid expensive now.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
midtown

midtown 3345

Posted
Posted (edited)

My understanding is that leasing can make financial sense if you are a person who trades your car every two years.   The biggest issue in Texas is the leasor pays the ENTIRE tax on the car even though they are only driving it for two years.  It really puts you behind the eight ball. In other states you pay a prorated amount depending on the term of the lease.  It's safe to assume that the majority of people lease so that they can get into a nicer car for less per month.  I do have a client that makes $3mil a year and he leases here in Texas.  Now because he's such a good client to the dealer they give him really great lease terms that makes it actually the same as buying.  

Edited by midtown
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14920

Posted
Posted

I’m currently in need of a car for my 17 year old (we’ve tried to make do with just tow cars and it’s not working out) as well as a replacement for my 11 year old 100K mile Audi which will need a $4K timing chain soon.

I am over analyzing as usual. It looks like a decent used Japanese car with CarPlay (which I feel to be a game changer for not fucking around on your phone while driving) is going to cost $15K to $20K for the daughter. For me I’m looking at a twoish year old E450, and to get a truly loaded one (I like ALL the tech) that’s about $55K. The Audi is probably worth $8K (on top of the age and miles some asshole put a giant ding in the door a couple weeks ago, it’s not pretty).

Not looking forward to the big expense, but I think I’m going to pay cash for the kid car and finance about half of my car. MB is offering 3.09% on late model used cars for 36 mos.

Depreciation on German sedans is still pretty steep. I’m seeing E450s that stickered for $75K go for less than $55K with less than 20K miles and still under factory warranty.

I’m currently in need of a car for my 17 year old (we’ve tried to make do with just tow cars and it’s not working out) as well as a replacement for my 11 year old 100K mile Audi which will need a $4K timing chain soon.

I am over analyzing as usual. It looks like a decent used Japanese car with CarPlay (which I feel to be a game changer for not fucking around on your phone while driving) is going to cost $15K to $20K for the daughter. For me I’m looking at a twoish year old E450, and to get a truly loaded one (I like ALL the tech) that’s about $55K. The Audi is probably worth $8K (on top of the age and miles some asshole put a giant ding in the door a couple weeks ago, it’s not pretty).

Not looking forward to the big expense, but I think I’m going to pay cash for the kid car and finance about half of my car. MB is offering 3.09% on late model used cars for 36 mos.

Depreciation on German sedans is still pretty steep. I’m seeing E450s that stickered for $75K go for less than $55K with less than 20K miles and still under factory warranty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sam Lin

Sam Lin 3556

Posted
Posted

I just bought a BMW X5 diesel. 2011-13 can be found easily for 10-12k. If you get lucky as low as 4k, and that's not clapped-out, it's just people not knowing the diesel and being afraid of it. I've sent two 4k candidates to a friend in Austin. Delete the emissions crap and ALL the known problems go away. That'll cost ~5k if you pay a shop. Luxury torque monster with 30mpg.

Get the 3 or 5 series diesel if you want 40mpg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
torre

torre 1285

Posted
Posted

While online shopping.    Just for info on why Carfax reports are questionable.   Clearvin seems to be a more trustworthy site.    Should note the car was a Rental vehicle which I understand do not report all accidents.

 

 

image.jpeg.0fc406d3d99f6394927d8d09c0b51e84.jpeg

2023 Mazda CX-30      https://www.clearvin.com/en/payment/prepare/3mvdmbdm8pm526168/?

VIN # 3MVDMBDM8PM526168

 

Screenshot 2023-09-14 172158 mazda.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captainant

Captainant 27661

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Buying a new vehicle in this environment about to become a lot shittier if this strike isn't resolved in short order.

 

6 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Inflation 2 UAW strike boogaloo

Hey man, those executive salaries and stock buybacks aren't gonna fund themselves! Auto workers just gotta stop being so greedy

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captainant

Captainant 27661

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Beating A Dead Horse GIF by 100 gecs

In this case, auto workers and their union agreed to lower pay during the COVID years in order to support their employers and ensure the business could keep running. Now they're asking for those delayed raises and the execs are balking at the idea - but deeply enriched themselves via record high stock buybacks during that period of their workers taking a haircut.

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15295

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sam Lin said:

The big US 3 are already paying significantly higher labor costs than their competition. I'm amusedly watching the UAW kill off their golden goose.

What's not to like?  A 40% pay hike with COLA kickers, a traditional pension, increased benefits, and a 32hr work week.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 1
  • Drool 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Newdoc

Newdoc 3440

Posted
Posted
On 9/15/2023 at 2:06 PM, BabaYaga said:

What's not to like?  A 40% pay hike with COLA kickers, a traditional pension, increased benefits, and a 32hr work week.

The average middle class non union worker in this country is going to look at this deal and look at their own 3% cost of living adjustment and support for the UAW is going to publically tank. Especially when their new and used car prices sky rocket again. Yes, the corporate greed is alive and present but so is union greed. Holy crap this country's economy is FUBAR'd if the only people at the table are greedy, amoralistic adults. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SKJ

SKJ 1311

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Newdoc said:

The average middle class non union worker in this country is going to look at this deal and look at their own 3% cost of living adjustment and support for the UAW is going to publically tank. Especially when their new and used car prices sky rocket again. Yes, the corporate greed is alive and present but so is union greed. Holy crap this country's economy is FUBAR'd if the only people at the table are greedy, amoralistic adults. 

Or maybe the average workers unionize after seeing this?

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captainant

Captainant 27661

Posted
Posted

https://apnews.com/article/uwa-strike-gm-ford-stellantis-pay-dacdfe9ec0736f4fbf3ce7ee38b4bcf4

AP has some good reporting on the payscales execs vs wage earners received. The brass tacks is that the UAW workers last raise was 6% back in 2019. So their pay has been stagnant for years while exec pay has been growing by leaps and bounds. And the various boards are ignoring the shareholders wishes and approving massive exec comp packages anyways.

Quote

How extreme that disparity? It depends on the comparison.

It’s far above the typical pay gap at S&P 500 companies, which was 186-1 according to AP’s annual CEO pay survey, which uses data analyzed by Equilar.

And it’s astronomical by historical standards. According to a study of the 350 largest publicly traded U.S. firms by the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, the CEO-to-Worker pay ratio was just 15-1 in 1965.

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4639

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Captainant said:

The brass tacks is that the UAW workers last raise was 6% back in 2019

They probably do deserve some additional compensation.  Cutting hours by 20% and a raise in salary by 40% is lol get fucked worthy.   They still pulled the same levers and pushed the same buttons during Covid while the execs found a way to make money. Which is evil, right comrade?

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted

I find the CEO pay issue to be a red herring in these talks. If the CEO agreed to lower their own pay, the unions wouldn't change any demands. It's only a topic to create an emotional response. 

Do I think most/many CEOs are overpaid? Yep. But I also understand that CEO compensation is based on many factors and has no relation to completing a task or working X hours per week. 

 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Newdoc

Newdoc 3440

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, SKJ said:

Or maybe the average workers unionize after seeing this?

Yeah, this thread got derailed. I'll swing it back around to wonder how much unionization might drive more auto manufacturing out of the country. If US quality is on par with Mexico production (ahem, looking at you Ford) or inferior to Japanese and S. Korea,  then we are asking the average American consumer to purchase a much more expensive car without any other advantages of the expense other than big fat union contracts and high CEO pay for our fellow American workers.  The fit and finish on a 2008 Lexus GX and a 2019 Kia is much better than my 2023 Ford Bronco. And I think the Bronco kicks ass from the look and capability department.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15295

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Yeah, this thread got derailed. I'll swing it back around to wonder how much unionization might drive more auto manufacturing out of the country. If US quality is on par with Mexico production (ahem, looking at you Ford) or inferior to Japanese and S. Korea,  then we are asking the average American consumer to purchase a much more expensive car without any other advantages of the expense other than big fat union contracts and high CEO pay for our fellow American workers.  The fit and finish on a 2008 Lexus GX and a 2019 Kia is much better than my 2023 Ford Bronco. And I think the Bronco kicks ass from the look and capability department.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hard Times

Hard Times 302

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Sandman said:

I don't care how much any of them make, suits or line workers. Just make a car that isn't a piece of shit for a decent price. I'm not paying $50k for whatever the fuck Ford is putting out there. 

Hell, that's nothing. My co-worker/friend bought a Ford Rapper pickup for over $120k, $10k over MSRP because it has a 700 v8 engine. Because "I'm a truck guy and had to have it". Plenty of people like that. Not to mention there's plenty of great sport sedans that have better performance and get much better MPG for half of that.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Baboontyme

Baboontyme 2810

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Newdoc said:

Yeah, this thread got derailed. I'll swing it back around to wonder how much unionization might drive more auto manufacturing out of the country. If US quality is on par with Mexico production (ahem, looking at you Ford) or inferior to Japanese and S. Korea,  then we are asking the average American consumer to purchase a much more expensive car without any other advantages of the expense other than big fat union contracts and high CEO pay for our fellow American workers.  The fit and finish on a 2008 Lexus GX and a 2019 Kia is much better than my 2023 Ford Bronco. And I think the Bronco kicks ass from the look and capability department.

@Newdoc Tell me more about your Bronco. I test drove one on a whim last week and I fell in love with it and I'm planning on pulling the trigger when I find one with the options I want. 

Oh and I do not plan to get crushed by a cement truck into a concrete wall. 

Edited by Baboontyme
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26452

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

 

 

15 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

That is not a good look for the Bronco, wow.

Perhaps the word "Fprd" should have been a tip that it's not a real test or engineering simulation, though. It's just the results of this scenario produced by the Beam NG video game engine. 


 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15295

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Perhaps the word "Fprd" should have been a tip that it's not a real test or engineering simulation, though. It's just the results of this scenario produced by the Beam NG video game engine. 

 

WAIT!  You mean a tik tok video isn't real  What the shit is this!

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hard Times said:

Hell, that's nothing. My co-worker/friend bought a Ford Rapper pickup for over $120k, $10k over MSRP because it has a 700 v8 engine. Because "I'm a truck guy and had to have it". Plenty of people like that. Not to mention there's plenty of great sport sedans that have better performance and get much better MPG for half of that.

If someone earns enough so they can afford $120K cash for a vehicle, good for them. On the other hand, if they're financing 120K for 84 months so they can make the payments, they're destined for financial problems.

Disclaimer: Someone will respond that a 0% rate means anyone should finance. In theory yes but 99.9% of the population should not take on that type of debt for a vehicle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Skipper

Skipper 6135

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There are a few 0% offers out there.

Any 0% offer out there - that note is getting sold at a steep discount. You almost certainly should be able to negotiate the purchase price down in lieu of financing.  You are paying interest one way or another in this environment.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Furk I’ve turned into an old.  I don’t use TikTok and have to admit I really didn’t pay attention very closely to that video.  I’ll shamble off in shame now.

There's a whole genre of videos where people wreck or jump different cars to compare them. It's all software/video games as the engine to create the videos.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15295

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Skipper said:

Any 0% offer out there - that note is getting sold at a steep discount. You almost certainly should be able to negotiate the purchase price down in lieu of financing.  You are paying interest one way or another in this environment.

This.  0% is a trap to get you in the door and make you feel better about paying much higher over MSRP.  Anyone buying a car that doesn't segregate the three main facets of the transaction needs help:  the trade-in value (if applicable), the purchase price, and the financing.  

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Newdoc

Newdoc 3440

Posted
Posted
On 9/19/2023 at 8:04 AM, Baboontyme said:

@Newdoc Tell me more about your Bronco. I test drove one on a whim last week and I fell in love with it and I'm planning on pulling the trigger when I find one with the options I want. 

Oh and I do not plan to get crushed by a cement truck into a concrete wall. 

It’s fine for a daily driver. Not quiet. Handles so much better than a Wrangler but still a tall boxy vehicle. Taking the top or panels off when it’s not 105 degrees is a lot of fun. I grew up with windows rolled down driving so blowing air and noise doesn’t bother me. I would definitely recommend having a primary road trip car other than the Bronco unless you are headed to coast, Big Bend, etc. My wife’s Mazda6 is a lot more peaceful to drive on I35, 290, etc.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45920

Posted
Posted

My kid needs a compact SUV.  She found a 2012 Toyota RAV4 that smelled like pizza and cost $13K.  We told that dealer to get fucked.  I'm now slowly coming around to thinking about just helping her out into a new vehicle.  Prices seem to start around $20K.  

My question:  are new vehicles still pulling full MSRP or even more?

Would consider later-model used if the value is there.  Recs are welcomed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...