Buying a New Vehicle in this environment

[Bozo_Casanova 26447]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

My kid needs a compact SUV.  She found a 2012 Toyota RAV4 that smelled like pizza and cost $13K.  We told that dealer to get fucked.  I'm now slowly coming around to thinking about just helping her out into a new vehicle.  Prices seem to start around $20K.  

My question:  are new vehicles still pulling full MSRP or even more?

Would consider later-model used if the value is there.  Recs are welcomed.

Can I interest you in a 2008 335I Convertible with 85K miles? Mostly garage kept, clean, all records, etc. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26447]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:28 PM, gyroprotagonist said:

fairly certain Automan was real, sir

Laura Branigan guest starred on Automan and he made a cunnilingus joke and then shredded. 

 

[jimmyjazz 45903]

34 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Can I interest you in a 2008 335I Convertible with 85K miles? Mostly garage kept, clean, all records, etc. 

Kinda hard to move a band's worth of gear in that.   My wife might want it, though -- seriously.

[Bozo_Casanova 26447]

14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Kinda hard to move a band's worth of gear in that.   My wife might want it, though -- seriously.

PIng me, she can come up and drive it. Perfect convertible weather from tomorrow and for the next 8 months. 

[ChickenSandwich 9834]

17 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Kinda hard to move a band's worth of gear in that.   My wife might want it, though -- seriously.

[Bozo_Casanova 26447]

18 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Can I interest you in a 2008 335I Convertible with 85K miles? Mostly garage kept, clean, all records, etc. 

Update - can I interest anyone in a severely hail damaged 2008 BMW335i with a shattered rear windshield?

[Incredulity 11667]

[Sam Lin 3556]

On 9/24/2023 at 9:41 AM, jimmyjazz said:

  My question:  are new vehicles still pulling full MSRP or even more?

Some high-demand models, but most are not.

[Your Mom 4805]

On 9/24/2023 at 1:04 PM, jimmyjazz said:

My wife might want it, though -- seriously.

 

On 9/24/2023 at 1:20 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

PIng me, she can come up and drive it. Perfect convertible weather from tomorrow and for the next 8 months. 

Now that’s a smooth move right there. Perfectly subtle and almost unnoticeable. 

[torre 1285]

Bloomberg/Yahoo article on current status of auto market.

 

Excerpt:

Automakers aren’t motivated to cut prices because they’re making more money selling fewer cars. Consumer spending on new vehicles reached a record $578 billion in 2023, its third consecutive year exceeding a half-trillion dollars, according to researcher J.D. Power. Consumers’ average monthly car payment in December was estimated to be $739, up $9 from a year earlier, J.D. Power said.

While 2023 was a big improvement over an inventory-constrained 2022, the challenges seen at the end of the year are expected to persist. Cox Automotive predicts US auto sales will be up less than 2% in 2024. That means the figure is unlikely to top 17 million in annual vehicle sales anytime soon, as they did for five consecutive years prior to the pandemic.

Toyota executives say sticker price shock is forcing more car buyers to downsize when they trade-in and some consumers are opting for late model used cars instead of new. Even so, they expect the momentum to build toward 16 million in annualized sales into 2024 as vehicle availability improves and other brands boost incentive spending to spur demand.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/car-sales-slow-us-buyers-110000582.html

[Armybrat 40833]

So it’s still an MSRP market? 
What about those Costco deals?

I plan to buy Mrs. Brat a new Honda Accord EX this Spring (cash purchase).

 

[Sam Lin 3556]

Definitely not a MSRP market for most cars, and 0% financing offers are steadily increasing. The reckoning is coming.

[CooterBrown 18006]

Saw a few YouTube car channel videos about the coming pickup truck Armageddon.  Dodge can't even sell trucks at all. The average Dodge price was over $85,000 with probably half of them over $100,000.  Ford wasn't far behind.  Chevy seemed be the best priced but you were still looking at $60,000 for a trim level that would've been considered a $30,000 fleet vehicle 5 years ago.  The dealers are keeping them on the lot instead of discounting them because they have to incur that loss when they do.  Until then it's just on paper, so they're kicking that can down the road as long as they can.

Edited January 5 by CooterBrown

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Wife's car was totaled in an accident so we had to go shopping.

Downsized from a QX80 to a Toyota Highlander Limited.  Took walking out twice but we got it ~7% off MSRP and 3.99% for 48.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

43 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Saw a few YouTube car channel videos about the coming pickup truck Armageddon.  Dodge can't even sell trucks at all. The average Dodge price was over $85,000 with probably half of them over $100,000.  Ford wasn't far behind.  Chevy seemed be the best priced but you were still looking at $60,000 for a trim level that would've been considered a $30,000 fleet vehicle 5 years ago.  The dealers are keeping them on the lot instead of discounting them because they have to incur that loss when they do.  Until then it's just on paper, so they're kicking that can down the road as long as they can.

I last bought a car in late '17 so perhaps my expectations are way off. I don't see how dealers can expect that average buyers can afford financing >$50k. It creates a payment that is unsustainable OR the buyer will not be able to buy another car for an extended time.

$50K at 60 months @ 5% gets you $950 monthly. I like to think that I have decent discretionary income but $950 monthly payment would greatly impact my other financial goals. 

[immamac 42842]

4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I last bought a car in late '17 so perhaps my expectations are way off. I don't see how dealers can expect that average buyers can afford financing >$50k. It creates a payment that is unsustainable OR the buyer will not be able to buy another car for an extended time.

$50K at 60 months @ 5% gets you $950 monthly. I like to think that I have decent discretionary income but $950 monthly payment would greatly impact my other financial goals. 

Imagine this x 2 and daycare x2 and all the extra $$ 2 young children cost. 

I was at harrahs on NYE $50 min everything. I’m convinced everyone is just broke and living off of loans or some trust fund. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

Just now, immamac said:

Imagine this x 2 and daycare x2 and all the extra $$ 2 young children cost. 

I was at harrahs on NYE $50 min everything. I’m convinced everyone is just broke and living off of loans or some trust fund. 

Exactly. If vehicles went up but nothing else, perhaps it could be digestible for more. And I'm not whining about the increased costs. I don't see how they expect many people to buy cars or trucks.

 

[Captainant 27656]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Saw a few YouTube car channel videos about the coming pickup truck Armageddon.  Dodge can't even sell trucks at all. The average Dodge price was over $85,000 with probably half of them over $100,000.  Ford wasn't far behind.  Chevy seemed be the best priced but you were still looking at $60,000 for a trim level that would've been considered a $30,000 fleet vehicle 5 years ago.  The dealers are keeping them on the lot instead of discounting them because they have to incur that loss when they do.  Until then it's just on paper, so they're kicking that can down the road as long as they can.

It's not just trucks - I paid off my 2019 jeep Cherokee last summer and for kicks I looked up what a comparable car would be brand new, and it was about $12k more - a 30% fuggin price increase! That ain't inflation, it's automakers getting a piece of that sweet price gouging action

[Catpfish 618]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I last bought a car in late '17 so perhaps my expectations are way off. I don't see how dealers can expect that average buyers can afford financing >$50k. It creates a payment that is unsustainable OR the buyer will not be able to buy another car for an extended time.

$50K at 60 months @ 5% gets you $950 monthly. I like to think that I have decent discretionary income but $950 monthly payment would greatly impact my other financial goals. 

From NASDAQ

The percentage of buyers who have a monthly car payment of over $1,000 has gone up to 17.5% in the third quarter of 2023.

Sorry for the crappy quote.  The percentage is 17.5% of new car purchases in Q3 2023, have a payment over $1,000.  I'm sure that is with notes extended as long as possible

[fattyflattie 4639]

16 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Saw a few YouTube car channel videos about the coming pickup truck Armageddon.  Dodge can't even sell trucks at all. The average Dodge price was over $85,000 with probably half of them over $100,000.  Ford wasn't far behind.  Chevy seemed be the best priced but you were still looking at $60,000 for a trim level that would've been considered a $30,000 fleet vehicle 5 years ago.  The dealers are keeping them on the lot instead of discounting them because they have to incur that loss when they do.  Until then it's just on paper, so they're kicking that can down the road as long as they can.

Yeah saw a couple of 3500’s for 110k the other day.  Fucking L. O. L. Problem is it’s (been) fucking up the preowned market, too.  If you haul heavy, prepare thy anoos. 

[Biff Tannen 45677]

I’ll be in the market in the next 6 months or so and I will only do 0% APR. If I can’t find anyone to do it, my 2004 4Runner still purrs like a kitten and I’ll wait it out. 

[tx 3 putt 76913]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I’ll be in the market in the next 6 months or so and I will only do 0% APR. If I can’t find anyone to do it, my 2004 4Runner still purrs like a kitten and I’ll wait it out. 

how much for the 4runner ?

Edited January 7 by tx 3 putt

[Biff Tannen 45677]

7 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

how much for the 4runner ?

Tree fiddy

[chainsaw 9866]

Buying new car for a college-aged person. Want the process to involve as little wasted time as possible. Willing to travel for the right car at the right price. Can be patient and I don't care much about the financing since I am probably going to use my own bank. Anyone been through the new car buying process recently?

[tx 3 putt 76913]

ford just sent me an offer for 1.9% on a new f150 king ranch, 72 months

[Pescado_Rojo 19416]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

ford just sent me an offer for 1.9% on a new f150 king ranch, 72 months

Toyota dealer where I bought my Tundra pings me about every 6 months to see if I'd like to trade it in. Bro, I bought a V8 Tundra so I'd never have to trade it in. 

[4th&Five 41526]

I get the same for my 4Runner. 
 

About to buy a car for my soon to be 16yo daughter. I’ve bought my last few in SA and saved a few grand. Doesn’t seem to be the case rn. 

[Dish Boggett 67]

Bought a new GMC for in December, did all of the negotiating with them via text. Once we agreed to a price I sent them  all the information and driver's license ETC. In and out of the dealership in less than 45 mins. went well

 

Bought a certified pre-owned for my oldest last month from a different dealer and it was a pain and had to deal with the typical used car salesmen BS. The advertised price was based upon a trade in and financing through them or add $3k to the price.

I got out of there at the advertised price but it wasn't easy or fun.

 

Advice- know what you want and what it is worth , negotiate via text as much as possible. and best of luck.

 

 

 

 

[CooterBrown 18006]

16 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

ford just sent me an offer for 1.9% on a new f150 king ranch, 72 months

They're doing anything they can to prop up the inflated truck prices.  Full size trucks of every make and model are sitting on lots for months and months right now.  

 

[Guest]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:11 AM, immamac said:

Imagine this x 2 and daycare x2 and all the extra $$ 2 young children cost. 

I was at harrahs on NYE $50 min everything. I’m convinced everyone is just broke and living off of loans or some trust fund. 

I would love a thread on this stuff. I'm fascinated by it. By all means I am doing very well and don't understand how people are affording everything they afford.

How the hell are there so many $1 million+ homes in Austin? Taxes alone are running $22K a year. 

[immamac 42842]

22 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Buying new car for a college-aged person. Want the process to involve as little wasted time as possible. Willing to travel for the right car at the right price. Can be patient and I don't care much about the financing since I am probably going to use my own bank. Anyone been through the new car buying process recently?

Mitsubishi mirage g4 under 20k. 

[chainsaw 9866]

3 hours ago, Dish Boggett said:

Bought a new GMC for in December, did all of the negotiating with them via text. Once we agreed to a price I sent them  all the information and driver's license ETC. In and out of the dealership in less than 45 mins. went well

All dealerships should be like this.

[Updawg 2266]

Buying new car for a college-aged person. Want the process to involve as little wasted time as possible. Willing to travel for the right car at the right price. Can be patient and I don't care much about the financing since I am probably going to use my own bank. Anyone been through the new car buying process recently?

Check out the Costco auto program. Had a great experience with it pre pandemic. No idea how it is now

[Covri 6248]

Imo don’t even use text, use email. They will text non fucking stop, at least email creates a different time barrier for most.  Bought the wife a new car in January, Hyundai palisade, paid about the lowest possible price for the trim package within 250 miles of us, and had the dealership deliver it from 80 miles away for a small fee. They tried to work some of the same crappy tactics over the phone, but not being face to face made it go way easier/ faster. No sake guy checking with his manger for 30 mins between offers. 
 

I bought my two previous trucks using email to negotiate and still had to spend an hour plus at the dealership wasting time signing paperwork. This latest time for my wife’s car I didn’t have to go anywhere and she had dialed in what she wanted so it was just paperwork after the negotiation that they brought to us.

[Texas Jeff 1945]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:41 PM, chainsaw said:

Buying new car for a college-aged person. Want the process to involve as little wasted time as possible. Willing to travel for the right car at the right price. Can be patient and I don't care much about the financing since I am probably going to use my own bank. Anyone been through the new car buying process recently?

Yes.  I just put down a deposit this week on a Honda Civic that is in-transit.  This will be a car for my wife for a bit and then handed to a kid.  Here is the process we followed:

Get a general idea of what class of car you want.  My wife wanted a small car just because it's easier to get around town and park.  She wanted options so I made a list of all of the cars in that class and a list of at least one dealership in the area that has that model.  We spent a half-day driving around visiting showrooms and sitting in different cars.  We were able to eliminate most of the models just by sitting in them and finding something we didn't like about them.  I watched some YouTube reviews for in-depth info.  Safety and reliability were my top concerns.  

This pretty much left the Civic as our best choice for right now.  My wife wanted a specific color combo and trim.  I used the online inventory tools to figure out who had that model in stock or in transit.  I reached out via the web site to all of the dealers in the Austin area and one in San Antonio (Gunn Honda) where we had a good experience with another Civic purchased during COVID for a different kid.  I asked for an email quote and got back a few PDF quotes and a few email responses and a lot of text messages and other emails inviting us to come on in and discuss it.  I did not come on in and discuss it.  Just use email to negotiate.

Most of the quotes were at MSRP, and a few have created a thing called a MVRP (market value price) which is just a made up number.  Know the MSRP for your car.  They added difference dealer accessories like tinting, windshield warrantees, paint and fabric protection, what ever.  Their goal is to pitch a MSRP price and add $1000 to $1600 in accessories.  I was able to find the car and get the price down close to MSRP, plus TTL for an out the door price.  Generally, they will offer you a discount on the price but still include the accessories because they put the "accessories" on most of their cars just after they get off the truck.  They add some paint protection and take the cars to a tint shop.  It looks like you are getting something more but really you are just getting their standard prep package.  It is very difficult to NOT buy the accessories.

Prices are coming down post COVID and it's hard to tell what a real market price is for the car.   During COVID, dealers were charging above MSRP and they are trying not to give that up, but prices are slowly coming down.  Showrooms now have cars again and supply is coming up.  The more flexible you are with model and color and trim, or purchase time, the more you are going to be able to negotiate or find a deal.  You are at a slight advantage if you can close right at the end of a month.  Try not to overpay but at the end of the day just make a deal and move on with your life.  Look at the car before you drive off for scratches or defects and maybe test drive it a few miles at highway speed to make sure it seems OK.

[chainsaw 9866]

Glad to hear prices are coming down. I would prefer not to take my business to any dealership that fucked any of you all over.

[Captainant 27656]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:54 PM, Dish Boggett said:

Bought a new GMC for in December, did all of the negotiating with them via text. Once we agreed to a price I sent them  all the information and driver's license ETC. In and out of the dealership in less than 45 mins. went well

 

Bought a certified pre-owned for my oldest last month from a different dealer and it was a pain and had to deal with the typical used car salesmen BS. The advertised price was based upon a trade in and financing through them or add $3k to the price.

I got out of there at the advertised price but it wasn't easy or fun.

 

Advice- know what you want and what it is worth , negotiate via text as much as possible. and best of luck.

 

 

 

 

I feel like having your own financing pre-approved in hand is super valuable. With my wife's car we still went with the dealership for financing, but they ended up beating the loan that we were already happy with by a quarter point just so we would finance through them

[BearSchlong 8087]

In 2018, I bought a new Tundra from a longtime friend who was in dealership sales. The very first thing he did during the pricing exercise was to strike through all the dealer-installed options while he said “Well I won't charge you that” under his breath.

I filed that away for future reference, and next time I need to buy a new car that's the first thing I'm requesting be removed before starting the talks. I didn't order it, and I've never used a warranty other than Discount Tire road hazard. And once I've left the lot, the only thing bringing me back is free oil changes.

Also, I'm requesting that they remove the shitty OEM tires and put on new Michelins. I'm not going to spend the first 20K miles rolling on goodyear factory seconds. Apparently, Toyota went with Falkans on the new TRO model that have half the tread depth of replacement tires and people are ditching them after 9k or so miles. I may be wrong, but I honestly believe new non luxury cars come with substandard tires.

Port-installed options were a great value, however - the upgraded wheels and steps on the Texas Edition that Gulf States Toyota put on after leaving the factory were a good deal, especially since that model came with additional rebates.

[Biff Tannen 45677]

Would I be stupid to just build my car online and just have it delivered to the dealer?

[chainsaw 9866]

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Would I be stupid to just build my car online and just have it delivered to the dealer?

I would love for this to be possible. But I worry about there being some kind of catch you don't discover until you're too far down that path

[Armybrat 40833]

On 3/8/2024 at 5:38 PM, Updawg said:

Check out the Costco auto program. Had a great experience with it pre pandemic. No idea how it is now

I used the Costco program to buy from Round Rock Honda twice before the pandemic. 
Called them back yesterday and they said the nearest Honda dealer in their “network” was in Houston.

Things have apparently changed.

[Armybrat 40833]

6 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

Yes.  I just put down a deposit this week on a Honda Civic that is in-transit.  This will be a car for my wife for a bit and then handed to a kid.  Here is the process we followed:

Get a general idea of what class of car you want.  My wife wanted a small car just because it's easier to get around town and park.  She wanted options so I made a list of all of the cars in that class and a list of at least one dealership in the area that has that model.  We spent a half-day driving around visiting showrooms and sitting in different cars.  We were able to eliminate most of the models just by sitting in them and finding something we didn't like about them.  I watched some YouTube reviews for in-depth info.  Safety and reliability were my top concerns.  

This pretty much left the Civic as our best choice for right now.  My wife wanted a specific color combo and trim.  I used the online inventory tools to figure out who had that model in stock or in transit.  I reached out via the web site to all of the dealers in the Austin area and one in San Antonio (Gunn Honda) where we had a good experience with another Civic purchased during COVID for a different kid.  I asked for an email quote and got back a few PDF quotes and a few email responses and a lot of text messages and other emails inviting us to come on in and discuss it.  I did not come on in and discuss it.  Just use email to negotiate.

Most of the quotes were at MSRP, and a few have created a thing called a MVRP (market value price) which is just a made up number.  Know the MSRP for your car.  They added difference dealer accessories like tinting, windshield warrantees, paint and fabric protection, what ever.  Their goal is to pitch a MSRP price and add $1000 to $1600 in accessories.  I was able to find the car and get the price down close to MSRP, plus TTL for an out the door price.  Generally, they will offer you a discount on the price but still include the accessories because they put the "accessories" on most of their cars just after they get off the truck.  They add some paint protection and take the cars to a tint shop.  It looks like you are getting something more but really you are just getting their standard prep package.  It is very difficult to NOT buy the accessories.

Prices are coming down post COVID and it's hard to tell what a real market price is for the car.   During COVID, dealers were charging above MSRP and they are trying not to give that up, but prices are slowly coming down.  Showrooms now have cars again and supply is coming up.  The more flexible you are with model and color and trim, or purchase time, the more you are going to be able to negotiate or find a deal.  You are at a slight advantage if you can close right at the end of a month.  Try not to overpay but at the end of the day just make a deal and move on with your life.  Look at the car before you drive off for scratches or defects and maybe test drive it a few miles at highway speed to make sure it seems OK.

I just bought this new 2024 Civic Hatchback EX-L (below) yesterday from Round Rock Honda. It has about $1,400+ of those dealer add on stuff. The MSRP was about $30,200 plus the above “extras”.

They were asking $33,987. After some back & forth they only knocked it down to $33k out the door. I went ahead and bought it because Mrs. Brat really liked it and we were needing a second car, as I had gifted my 2019 Civic EX 2door coupe (with 15,000 miles on it) to my grandson for his 21st birthday last month.

This new one has just about all the bells & whistles on it, most of which we’ll never figure out how to program or use. 
Yeah, I got screwed, but don’t really care because she’s happy.

 

 

[Armybrat 40833]

The 2019 Civic my grandson now owns…

 

[JGrayDBU 338]

On 9/24/2023 at 11:41 AM, jimmyjazz said:

My kid needs a compact SUV.  She found a 2012 Toyota RAV4 that smelled like pizza and cost $13K.  We told that dealer to get fucked.  I'm now slowly coming around to thinking about just helping her out into a new vehicle.  Prices seem to start around $20K.  

My question:  are new vehicles still pulling full MSRP or even more?

Would consider later-model used if the value is there.  Recs are welcomed.

Just saw this.  Bought new 2022 Hyundai Kona in summer 2021.  Paid $500 less than MSRP during COVID.  Good car. great warranty. 

[Covri 6248]

Brat, you didn’t get screwed . You go what you wanted at a price you were willing to pay. That’s what it comes down to.

We looked at 3-4 different vehicles, trims, leg room, etc. Looked at outside financing which as mentioned above is a nice back pocket negotiation (my current truck was UFCU financed not dealer/manufacturer because of that) but went with Hyundais current offer. It’s fucked that some trims qualify and others don’t with some car companies. 
 

Dealerships are still trying to gouge but it’s getting harder to do so. If you don’t need a new vehicle immediately I’d wait 4-6 months for the deals to really start happening. The 2025s are rolling in by then. 

[Texas Jeff 1945]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

This new one has just about all the bells & whistles on it, most of which we’ll never figure out how to program or use. 

There is one switch on the center console that you should learn how to use.  It switches the car between Econ, Normal, and Sport modes.  Econ will save you some gas ... but ... alternatively ... Normal and Sport will make the car more fun to drive.

[Armybrat 40833]

I’ll have to look for it on this one. There are twice as many buttons on this heap as the 2019.

That Civic had one too, but it was just for economy & normal….and easier to find.

[Armybrat 40833]

9 hours ago, Covri said:

Brat, you didn’t get screwed . You go what you wanted at a price you were willing to pay. That’s what it comes down to.

We looked at 3-4 different vehicles, trims, leg room, etc. Looked at outside financing which as mentioned above is a nice back pocket negotiation (my current truck was UFCU financed not dealer/manufacturer because of that) but went with Hyundais current offer. It’s fucked that some trims qualify and others don’t with some car companies. 
 

Dealerships are still trying to gouge but it’s getting harder to do so. If you don’t need a new vehicle immediately I’d wait 4-6 months for the deals to really start happening. The 2025s are rolling in by then. 

We just paid cash….a high interest loan ain’t in the cards at my stage in life.

[NoRagrets 1125]

Dealer inventories seem to really be picking up. Good deals should be back in play soon. 

[chainsaw 9866]

14 hours ago, Covri said:

I’d wait 4-6 months

I could do that, but I'm starting to feel the heat about having procrastinated so long. In my defense, the waiting so far seems to have been beneficial from an inventory and pricing standpoint.