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Rank the top 5 NBA players

shadow_operative

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I dunno that I can put Kawhi 2 right now but I think your top 5 players is right. Think Embiid is the first one out 

agreed. Embiid was indeed my first one out.

edit: i put Kawhi at two because he's the best two-way player in league. he's the only one who is elite on both ends.

Edited by shadow_operative
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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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2 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Luka belongs somewhere in the top 5

he was in my mind, but he just doesn't have the skins on the wall for me to put him above these guys. these are MVPs, Finals MVPS, title winners, and mostly two-way players who are good-great on D as well. Luka has to earn a  few more stripes before he enters this echelon. 

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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Just now, shadow_operative said:

he was in my mind, but he just doesn't have the skins on the wall for me to put him above these guys. these are MVPs, Finals MVPS, title winners, and mostly two-way players who are good-great on D as well. Luka has to earn a  few more stripes before he enters this echelon. 

I was taking the thread topic as more current game/skill level

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13045

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4 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

agreed. Embiid was indeed my first one out.

edit: i put Kawhi at two because he's the best two-way player in league. he's the only one who is elite on both ends.

I think his defense isn’t quite the same level as it once was but you’re not wrong. 

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Reynolds Woodcock

Reynolds Woodcock 4758

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1. KD

2. Kawhi

3. LBJ (giving him major benefit of the doubt, because he does seem to be slipping).

4. Curry

5. Jokic

6. Luka

7. Embiid

8. Giannis

9. Harden

10. Dame

11. Davis

To me that is the list of superstar players right now. Tons of younger guys on the rise. I could be talked into a lot of different orders for 2-11,  but no question on number 1.

Edit to add: fuck it’s hard to leave CP3 off the list given what he is doing this year.

Edited by Reynolds Woodcock
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Baboontyme

Baboontyme 2814

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11 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

8 being held for the ghost of Kobe (RIP)???

 

Ok after re-focusing - the other guy who slots in on that list is Harden, for sure. I would put him below Giannis and above Dame. The next guy on my list would be AD and then it would be Book or Mitchell. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43477

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My actual list would be:

KD

Kawhi

Luka

Curry

Jokic

But that's kind of based on current form and health and what we've seen this year. Embiid is in my top 5 if he could stay a bit healthier. 

I actually didn't think LeBron was one of the best 5 this year - regular season or playoffs. I'm sure he will be back up there next year, though. 

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hobbes2702

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1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

so, lol at everyone but you and Lakers fans.

I’m not saying Joker is definitely better than AD. I think there is an argument for AD because he can change games defensively. 
But what joker does on offense is truly unique and unlike anyone ever in the league. AD might be better, Joker might be. Pretending that one is far and away better is the real folly here

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Just now, hobbes2702 said:

I’m not saying Joker is definitely better than AD. I think there is an argument for AD because he can change games defensively. 
But what joker does on offense is truly unique and unlike anyone ever in the league. AD might be better, Joker might be. Pretending that one is far and away better is the real folly here

Jokic is inarguably better offensively, which definitely matters more when parsing between players at or near the top of the pile. he's also never hurt, which makes him >>>>>> AD all day every day. 

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hobbes2702

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4 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Jokic is inarguably better offensively, which definitely matters more when parsing between players at or near the top of the pile. he's also never hurt, which makes him >>>>>> AD all day every day. 

I don’t disagree. I just think both guys are elite and the differences between the elites are slim margins. I’ll take Joker for sure, especially considering reliability 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3917

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35 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

If you’re a GM and you choose Jokic over AD, you would be fired. Tell me I’m lying

Don't think that's necessarily correct.  Davis is the more naturally gifted athlete and therefore has a little higher upside, but he also has never had a season as good as Jokic just put up.  Come close once, but not even that close.  The issue is Jokic has never put up a season as good as this season, so who's the real Jokic?  21' Jokic or more like 17'-20' Jokic??  Maybe somewhere in between.  Davis has the higher ceiling but all of those injuries make him have the lower floor.  Availability is sometimes the best ability.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Jokic's career playoff resume suggests that this season is not only nowhere near a fluke, but that Jokic's best could still be yet to come. The guy has been an unheralded monster for three-four years now, and this year he simply put everybody on notice.

 

edit: 

Jokic is 25. he's not only already led his team to three different playoff series comebacks from down 3-1, all as underdogs, but his career playoff stats are as follows:

25.9 ppg, 11.3 reb, 6.4 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.8 blk,  .840 FT%, .406 3P% on 4.8 3PA.

again, he's 25, and he's never hurt. the list of guys in the history of the NBA with those ^^^ playoff numbers through their age 25 season has got to be one short list. Nikola Jokic is the truth. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19109

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KD

harden

luka 

joker

Giannis
 

if I’m picking a team and starting from scratch to play a full regular season that’s my list. No LBJ b/c I think he’s through playing quality regular seasons. No Leonard because he’s a load managing pussy. Harden and Luka bc they answer the bell and play every game normally and raise your floor to 45 wins even if the rest of your team sucks. Joker and Giannis are just big and good and tear shit up over a regular season 
 

if we are taking who I’m picking in the playoffs to go 4 rounds and everyone is healthy?


KD

LBJ
Leonard

joker

Pandemic P. Ha. Haha. Hahaha. 
#5 would probably be Embiid I guess. 

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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On 6/15/2021 at 11:02 PM, ztejas said:

My actual list would be:

KD

Kawhi

Luka

Curry

Jokic

But that's kind of based on current form and health and what we've seen this year. Embiid is in my top 5 if he could stay a bit healthier. 

I actually didn't think LeBron was one of the best 5 this year - regular season or playoffs. I'm sure he will be back up there next year, though. 

That's my list exactly

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ztejas

ztejas 43477

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Fucking Mavs. Kid is what, 22? And he has Spurs fans (or non Mavs fans) in here anointing him as the fucking 3rd best player in the league already. 

But he is. Just gotta offload that Porzingis deal somehow and y'all are set.

Edited by ztejas
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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Luka is a huge, versatile, offensive savant. but if you were to rank the top 15 NBA players he's probably be no higher than 13th when it comes to defense. He has a ways to go in that regard before he cracks my top five. i doubt you could go to any period in NBA history and find a top 5 player who was worse than Luka defensively.

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ztejas

ztejas 43477

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3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Luka is a huge, versatile, offensive savant. but if you were to rank the top 15 NBA players he's probably be no higher than 13th when it comes to defense. He has a ways to go in that regard before he cracks my top five. i doubt you could go to any period in NBA history and find a top 5 player who was worse than Luka defensively.

You put Jokic at 3rd and you're knocking Luka for his D? C'mon man. There have been plenty of not great defenders that were top 5 players. Curry and KD (KD from 2010-2013ish) are two recent examples. 

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shadow_operative

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6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

We're not coming to terms here. You love Jokic. I think Luka is a better player. That's it. Jokic had a better regular season. I'll concede that. I'm taking Luka in the playoffs 10 times out of 10. 

based on what? Jokic has been better in the playoffs than he has during his regular season career. Jokic has led his team to three different comebacks from down 3-1, all as the underdog. he's a monster in the playoffs who is still better than Luka. yeah, i love Jokic, but you're not going to find many stats or advanced metrics that say he's inferior to Luka. Jokic has better numbers and has accomplished more. it's not even really a debate. 

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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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I'm going to go with the Bill Simmons question of "if aliens landed and we had a single game for the fate of the world, who are my first 5 picks to be on the team?".

  1. KD
  2. Kawhi
  3. LeBron
  4. Steph
  5. Jokic

It is hard to leave Giannis off since he can get a team to 50 wins almost by himself, but in a single game I'm going to go with the guys above.

As a thought exercise, with some of the players behind these guys, you can ask... "if I swapped X player with one of these guys, how would the team results change".  For example, if you swap Steph and Luka, which team does better this year?  I think Dallas improves with Steph and GS gets worse. Barely.

Swap Giannis and Jokic, which team gets better? (Yes I realize they play different positions). Close one here. I think the role players in Milwaukee get marginally better and the team wins a few more games.  For me, it is very close between Giannis, Jokic and Embiid.  Swap Jokic and Embiid and both teams might actually get better.

Jimmy Butler isn't getting any mention.  This year he was #5 in PER, #5 in WS, #3 in WS/48, #6 in VORP

Zion is #4 in PER, #11 in WS, #13 in WS/48, #10 in VORP

Gobert is #2 in WS, #4 in WS/48, #14 in VORP, #15 in PER

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