Racism and the Greek System (South & Texas)

[bad_teammate 13022]

6 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Frats are weird. It's like your parents buying you friends access to higher socioeconomic connections and circles.

fixed
(also explains private schools)

In my time at UT I did not understand the point of them and just saw them as an embarrassment/annoyance (still do). I was very focused on my classes and job and I had a girlfriend I knew I was going to marry, so I felt pretty established emotionally and socially even at that young age, so it took my oldest son a LOT of work to convince me to help him financially with it when he wanted to pledge. His grades went to shit (made a C in a class, which is unacceptable) so I stopped and it became a real sore point for us for years.

He told me a few stories that worried me a lot regarding in terms of what kind of worldview (racist, misogynist) he was paying his own money to immerse himself in, but luckily it didn't stick. Like some of y'all, he's got lifelong friends from the frat and his Facebook feed is regularly full of the most stock-character camaraderie. Has a good job now 100% attributable to frat connections.

Younger son didn't see the appeal either, huge fucking nerd with an ocean of nerd-ass friends.

The "Greek" system exists to perpetuate the values of the bourgeois class, whatever those values might be at the time. But at the end of the day it's a tribe, with all the good and bad that comes with.

Overall take on Greek system: Whatever.

[deadshank 24645]

I was in a frat.  It was fun.  It was stupid. Met some lifelong friends. Met some real turds.  Pretty much like any organization.  

Why would you care or a frat give you pause? Because the typical notion of frats is out of control wealthy white kids?  

[bad_teammate 13022]

Don't know if you were asking me specifically, but my own view/time was very Outsiders in its social/class dynamics.

I grew up very poor and my parents struggled with money and personal relationships and, in their own way, substances. People in my family didn't graduate high school, must less go to UT, so I was extremely serious-minded about the opportunities in front of me and what they meant for my future.

In my mind, I couldn't afford to just screw around and extend my boyhood indefinitely. In my mind, if I didn't succeed it was back to the Jasper area and everything I saw growing up around me. When I saw the frat kids having a grand old time, I saw kids who knew with full certainty in their hearts they'd be OK and the worst that would happen is that they went back to a secure home and influences that would make sure they turned out OK.

Was I correct? Obviously not completely, but I was a kid like they were all kids. We were all just kids who came from where we came from and valued what we valued. Not really seeing each other. It's cool.

Edited June 17, 2021 by bad_teammate

[Helobious 9426]

Wasn’t in a frat myself, but roomed with a Delt & an SAE (who I think they wanted specifically because he was a drug dealer). A couple of them were cool/nice people. I’ve told the story before but a few SAEs were chilling in our living room and I asked one how his intramural basketball game went. He said they had lost to “a bunch of fucking niggers”. No one in the room batted an eye. That was 5-6 years ago.

One thing I remember is all of their music taste was exclusively bro country and hardcore trap rap music. Nothing else. It was a weird dynamic. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

42 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Was I correct? Obviously not completely, but I was a kid like they were all kids. We were all just kids who came from where we came from and valued what we valued. Not really seeing each other. It's cool.

Maybe the most timelessly true and introspective and wise thing you've ever said on this site.

[Js1 83679]

12 hours ago, Orale said:

Didn't know what the hell a frat was when I got to UT. Found my way to the Tejas Club which was pretty diverse as far as male organizations go. We used to have coffee talks on Thursday evenings at the house with some pretty impressive guest speakers. McRaven came one time and impressed the hell out of me. Who know that 10 or so years later he'd lead the raid to get Osama.  /CSB

Tejas is/was the anti-frat (at least when I was at UT because we used to hang there quite a bit).

Very service oriented, very open and diverse and very involved in things like UTSG.   A decent mix of washed up HS athlete bros, bookworms and community do-gooders. 

Their Coffee Talks were great for students - I specifically remember Rep. Rafael Anchia, Gail Goestenkors right after she got to campus, Professor Brands and Professor Brinks from the Gov department in the run-up to the 2008 election (and we watched the UT-hosted debate between Hillary and Obama at the Tejas House before they spoke).  

[6th Street 6299]

Not necessary at a big school like Texas, but if you're at a smaller east coast private school it probably makes sense to join a fraternity. Smaller pledge classes, more tight knit group, etc

[DonkeyCigars 144]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Tejas is/was the anti-frat (at least when I was at UT because we used to hang there quite a bit).

Very service oriented, very open and diverse and very involved in things like UTSG.   A decent mix of washed up HS athlete bros, bookworms and community do-gooders. 

Their Coffee Talks were great for students - I specifically remember Rep. Rafael Anchia, Gail Goestenkors right after she got to campus, Professor Brands and Professor Brinks from the Gov department in the run-up to the 2008 election (and we watched the UT-hosted debate between Hillary and Obama at the Tejas House before they spoke).  

Were those the guys and gals that would dress up in pinks and greens and play croquet in the front yard a couple of times a year or was that the Christian fraternity?

[closetohumping 17302]

13 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Wasn’t in a frat myself, but roomed with a Delt & an SAE (who I think they wanted specifically because he was a drug dealer). A couple of them were cool/nice people. I’ve told the story before but a few SAEs were chilling in our living room and I asked one how his intramural basketball game went. He said they had lost to “a bunch of fucking niggers”. No one in the room batted an eye. That was 5-6 years ago.

One thing I remember is all of their music taste was exclusively bro country and hardcore trap rap music. Nothing else. It was a weird dynamic. 

Ouch.  

 

Way, way back in the day, the KA president was a Muslim dude.  But even then, yeah, I could see some of those guys possibly being racist.

[Bateshorn 9612]

4 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Not necessary at a big school like Texas, but if you're at a smaller east coast private school it probably makes sense to join a fraternity. Smaller pledge classes, more tight knit group, etc

I can speak to this.
 

Really depends on the school.  If your talking somewhere like University of the South, University of Richmond, Colgate, then it’s essential for your social life.  You end up being a bit of an outcast or at least in an “out” group.  
 

Other schools it’s just the meat head component and it’s a form of self segregation that the needs and strivers are grateful for.

If we are talking truly elite schools with secret societies, the fraternity system is not a big deal.  It’s just…there and sorta loserish. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

If we are talking truly elite schools with secret societies, the fraternity system is not a big deal.  It’s just…there and sorta loserish. 

I am not going back to the Caribbean Night at AEPi!

[Bateshorn 9612]

What I find interesting is how when schools ban fraternities for hazing/bad behavior, they almost flourish underground in way they never did when official.  
 

Colby has been at war with underground fraternities for decades. 

[deadshank 24645]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Don't know if you were asking me specifically, but my own view/time was very Outsiders in its social/class dynamics.

I grew up very poor and my parents struggled with money and personal relationships and, in their own way, substances. People in my family didn't graduate high school, must less go to UT, so I was extremely serious-minded about the opportunities in front of me and what they meant for my future.

In my mind, I couldn't afford to just screw around and extend my boyhood indefinitely. In my mind, if I didn't succeed it was back to the Jasper area and everything I saw growing up around me. When I saw the frat kids having a grand old time, I saw kids who knew with full certainty in their hearts they'd be OK and the worst that would happen is that they went back to a secure home and influences that would make sure they turned out OK.

Was I correct? Obviously not completely, but I was a kid like they were all kids. We were all just kids who came from where we came from and valued what we valued. Not really seeing each other. It's cool.

Wasn’t addressing you. Just behind your post. 
 

I’m not sold on the “extend my boyhood indefinitely” bit as exclusive to frats. That is particular to the male of our species.  Some of us grow up and others don’t.  
 

Regarding “seeing kids with full certainty in their hearts….turned out OK,” that is what most strive for and some are fortunate to have that.  Being in a frat has never been a requirement for that.

Your last paragraph is spot on.  All college aged kids, be them dipshit partiers or the super serious types, are still just dumb kids that do what they do.   
 

Some of my frat bros are / have been extremely successful. From big time Wall Streeters, presidential cabinet appointees, fighter pilots, C suite types, you name it.  Others are ordinary ham and eggers like me.  Teachers, bakers and candlestick makers.  Some are miserable flops and lost souls.  
 

Typical of any social circle.  

[Brisketexan 103656]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

fixed
(also explains private schools)

In my time at UT I did not understand the point of them and just saw them as an embarrassment/annoyance (still do). I was very focused on my classes and job and I had a girlfriend I knew I was going to marry, so I felt pretty established emotionally and socially even at that young age, so it took my oldest son a LOT of work to convince me to help him financially with it when he wanted to pledge. His grades went to shit (made a C in a class, which is unacceptable) so I stopped and it became a real sore point for us for years.

He told me a few stories that worried me a lot regarding in terms of what kind of worldview (racist, misogynist) he was paying his own money to immerse himself in, but luckily it didn't stick. Like some of y'all, he's got lifelong friends from the frat and his Facebook feed is regularly full of the most stock-character camaraderie. Has a good job now 100% attributable to frat connections.

Younger son didn't see the appeal either, huge fucking nerd with an ocean of nerd-ass friends.

The "Greek" system exists to perpetuate the values of the bourgeois class, whatever those values might be at the time. But at the end of the day it's a tribe, with all the good and bad that comes with.

Overall take on Greek system: Whatever.

Just wanted to note that this is an excellent post.  Like any other approach to student life (loner, stoner, athlete, geek, etc), it has its pros and cons.

I was in a fraternity (ITB, ConVINCEd), and was an officer.  I came from a Houston private school background (hola, Maybeacoordinator), so culturally, it fit.  But....I do have a messican last name for sure.  In rush, it was a curiosity at some houses, and there were places where I clearly wouldn't fit in.  I ended up pledging a middle-of-the-road chapter, "prestige"-wise.  And I ended up there because an upperclassmen girl I was friends with was talking to me one day as I was griping about the rush process (I had already decided not to pledge until spring, so I had plenty of time to look around), and she spoke of this house as "nice guys.  I'm comfortable when I'm over there."  So, I checked it out, and they were.

I mean it.  They were good guys.  Some of the biggest blowups we had were when a member treated a woman like shit, tried to take advantage of her, was reported to have hit a girl.  So, that's good.  And even as GOOD GUYS.....we were also misogynist cavemen.  Songs about poontang, all that shit.  But that attitude wasn't unique to us, or fraternities in general, in the late 1980s.  I went to plenty of hippie/stoner parties, or just generic apartment parties, where the same attitudes were prevalent.  

As for race....my great uncle was a star athlete at UT before WWII.  He was also perhaps the first hispanic letterman in the SWC.  He was "kind of a big deal."  So much so, that one of the more prestigious chapters wanted him to join.....but as a condition, they wanted him to anglicize his name.  He declined.  60 years later, I had multiple options of houses I could join, and most of them didn't give 1/10th of a shit about my last name.  So, I really noted the progress.  We didn't have any black members, but some of our other chapters did.  And I remember going to a regional convention (so, guys from all of our chapters in the region), and hanging out with the LSU guys -- who were batshit crazy, fun as shit, and funny as hell.  But as we were carousing one night in a group, including one black member from the chapter at one of the smaller Texas schools, one of the LSU guys who I really liked said "man.....if my daddy knew I'd joined a fraternity with a n---er in it, I don't know what he'd say."  That was a real splash of cold water to the face for me.

But again....I had heard that word plenty used by folks outside the greek system as well.  As bad teammate said, it's a group/tribe, like anything else, with the good and bad.  It's what you make it.  Some of my lifelong friends came from that experience, and I'm glad for that.  Would I join a fraternity if I went to college today? I don't know.  If my son wants to join one when he goes to college, we'll talk about it.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Like any other approach to student life (loner, stoner, athlete, geek, etc), it has its pros and cons.

[Brisketexan 103656]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

"What do YOU need a fake ID for?"

"So I can vote!"

[bad_teammate 13022]

19 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Some of my frat bros are / have been extremely successful. From big time Wall Streeters, presidential cabinet appointees, fighter pilots, C suite types, you name it.  Others are ordinary ham and eggers like me.  Teachers, bakers and candlestick makers.  Some are miserable flops and lost souls.  

Typical of any social circle.  

This isn't a frat argument I'm making, but a class one.

What you're describing is NOT typical of "any social circle". In most social circles in the country, the teacher is actually the most stable and successful person in the group. Any social group that sees a teacher as the career flop is a social group whose averaged income is likely Top 20%. There's a whole bottom 80% below that that remains completely invisible. $65k/yr with health benefits and a pension? Ooh baby.

That was/is my beef in a nutshell. The profound myopia of in-groups and how those in-groups perpetuate inequality through dynastic structures. (Obviously I didn't gain the language for this until later... poverty stricken small towns near Jasper from X#-of-years-ago weren't known for filling their youth's brains with Marxist philosophy.)

The STRUCTURE is the valid target of anger, though, not the kids raised in it. The STRUCTURE that produces Johnny Mustang is what needs to be dismantled, not Johnny Mustang himself. He's just a guy doing the best he can and we love him. But we need him to open his eyes.

And also you're right about the extended boyhood. That's inside a young man. Plenty of broke friends of mine never grew up and paid the price.

[babysdaddy 2708]

I'm actually pretty shocked the greek system is still around and operating at UT.  I read somewhere that bulk of the athletic donations to UT come from ex greeks so maybe not a total shock. 

But as it relates to the question, the bigger houses at UT have feeder highschools.  Some guys can get in that come from non established pipeline high schools but almost always the pledge classes will be dominated by those same schools.  Those schools that feed are not the most diverse places (or at least don't have many black students attending UT) and the membership reflects that.  It's really as simple as that.  And the one I was in had every group imaginable....except black dudes.

[Hank Scorpio 17691]

None of you nerds are getting bids. 

[deadshank 24645]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This isn't a frat argument I'm making, but a class one.

What you're describing is NOT typical of "any social circle". In most social circles in the country, the teacher is actually the most stable and successful person in the group. Any social group that sees a teacher as the career flop is a social group whose averaged income is likely Top 20%. There's a whole bottom 80% below that that remains completely invisible. $65k/yr with health benefits and a pension? Ooh baby.

That was/is my beef in a nutshell. The profound myopia of in-groups and how those in-groups perpetuate inequality through dynastic structures. (Obviously I didn't gain the language for this until later... poverty stricken small towns near Jasper from X#-of-years-ago weren't known for filling their youth's brains with Marxist philosophy.)

The STRUCTURE is the valid target of anger, though, not the kids raised in it. The STRUCTURE that produces Johnny Mustang is what needs to be dismantled, not Johnny Mustang himself. He's just a guy doing the best he can and we love him. But we need him to open his eyes.

And also you're right about the extended boyhood. That's inside a young man. Plenty of broke friends of mine never grew up and paid the price.

Sorry you misconstrued the teacher as part of the flop and last soul group and not part of the ordinary ham and egg er group.  
 

The flop and lost soul group is just that.  Some are still my friends though.  

BTW, the Marxist that will rebuild the STRUCTURE will have their elites, too, and we will be right back discussing this very topic. 

We will just be discussing it in a forced labor camp. 

[Continental Op 3934]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

None of you nerds are getting bids. 

I didn't send a picture to Lambda Lambda Lambda so I am probably good to go. 

[Poe It Up 126]

I partied with SAE’s quite a bit. I’m pretty sure it was all white, but that wasn’t the weird part for me. The weird part was that there was a sorority somehow associated with them that would bring over their pledges for entertainment. Felt a bit like sex trafficking. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

45 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

spring, so I had plenty of time to look around), and she spoke of this house as "nice guys.  I'm comfortable when I'm over there."  So, I checked it out, and they were.

I mean it.  They were good guys.  Some of the biggest blowups we had were when a member treated a woman like shit, tried to take advantage of her, was reported to have hit a girl.  So, that's good.  And even as GOOD GUYS.....we were also misogynist cavemen.  Songs about poontang, all that shit.  But that attitude wasn't unique to us, or fraternities in general, in the late 1980s.  I went to plenty of hippie/stoner parties, or just generic apartment parties, where the same attitudes were prevalent.  

 

My frat took an idiotic pride in its misogynistic rep, which is why we struggled to keep mixers going even with second-tier sororities. It wasn't always that way; decades before, when my grandfather was there, they were elite, and I think this moronic pride in being dicks to girls was a huge factor in why they had fallen from that ranking to the second tier. (That, and the loss of the old house, which had been in a primo spot.) I only lasted a year at UT but in my semester as an active I would nag these idiots along these lines. Cultivating that image served absolutely no purpose other than to make it that much harder to pull the finest women. So fucking stupid. 

[TonyTexas 10433]

It’s a pretty small pool to choose from if a frat was open minded about accepting black members. UT’s student body is around 5% black. Let’s assume 1/2 are female, that leaves about 1200 black males. About 10% of the total student body is Greek. So now your pool is down to 120. And that has to populate the black fraternities as well. And this is now. I have to assume those numbers were even smaller in the time periods most of y’all have been referencing. That leaves pretty slim pickings. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by TonyTexas

[mchookem 15574]

i wasn't in a sorority but i lived in WC amidst the greeks and my girlfriends and i went to several parties.

most of the snobby rich kids from my h.s. pledged (male and female). my two currently filthy rich cousins were FiJIs (about 8-10 years ahead of me), i heard plenty of stories.

i kicked a guy in the nuts at one party bc he wouldn't let me leave his room after i changed my mind. he thought it was a big joke, and when he put his hands on me to physically restrain me i let him have it.

i also had to work in college, and i delivered pizzas in WC...delivering to the frat houses was always uncomfortable bc there were inevitable catcalls from inside and lewd 'invitations'.

i've never read a news story about something terrible a fraternity did that shocked me. they no doubt provide invaluable connections for succeeding in life,  but i wouldn't say i'm a fan lol.

Edited June 17, 2021 by mchookem

[Brisketexan 103656]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My frat took an idiotic pride in its misogynistic rep, which is why we struggled to keep mixers going even with second-tier sororities. It wasn't always that way; decades before, when my grandfather was there, they were elite, and I think this moronic pride in being dicks to girls was a huge factor in why they had fallen from that ranking to the second tier. (That, and the loss of the old house, which had been in a primo spot.) I only lasted a year at UT but in my semester as an active I would nag these idiots along these lines. Cultivating that image served absolutely no purpose other than to make it that much harder to pull the finest women. So fucking stupid. 

Yeah.....I knew a fair number of girls who steered WAY clear of your house (and a couple of others, to be fair).

[Brisketexan 103656]

12 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I had no idea of how diverse my frat actually was until the AIDS crisis hit.

Yep.  Well, it didn't take the AIDS crisis.  We pretty much knew who the gay guys were.  Including the guy who came out to me and one of the other guys as he drove at breakneck speeds down 2222, drunk, with us in the car with him, getting more emotional and intense as he confessed to us.  We both said "dude, we're totally cool with you being gay....but could you pull over and let one of us drive so we don't all die tonight?"

Also, some of our gay members were some of the smartest and now most successful guys we had in the chapter.  More power to them.

[Hank Scorpio 17691]

38 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

None of you nerds are getting bids. 

Fuck, the chapter president just told me that we need the dues. 

[Bateshorn 9612]

As I alluded to:  the race thing cuts both ways.  For most black people interested in a Greek lifestyle, why would they join a white frat when black frats exist?  I can’t imagine being a minority at say UT, then choosing to be an extreme minority in your social club. 

[Brisketexan 103656]

5 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

As I alluded to:  the race thing cuts both ways.  For most black people interested in a Greek lifestyle, why would they join a white frat when black frats exist?  I can’t imagine being a minority at say UT, then choosing to be an extreme minority in your social club. 

Also, I remember watching the Alpha Phi Alphas practice their step show routine in the common area at Jester, and it was badass as hell.  Definitely made me want to hang with those guys.

[Orale 1080]

Were those the guys and gals that would dress up in pinks and greens and play croquet in the front yard a couple of times a year or was that the Christian fraternity?

Yep. I think it was when we did a big crawfish boil.

[deadshank 24645]

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

As I alluded to:  the race thing cuts both ways.  For most black people interested in a Greek lifestyle, why would they join a white frat when black frats exist?  I can’t imagine being a minority at say UT, then choosing to be an extreme minority in your social club. 

 

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Also, I remember watching the Alpha Phi Alphas practice their step show routine in the common area at Jester, and it was badass as hell.  Definitely made me want to hang with those guys.

The black sororities and frats catch just as much criticism by their own non-member racial groups, as well.  Cries of classism / elitism are common.  More so with the girls.  

[bad_teammate 13022]

"cries of"

[RDCanecutter 25995]

14 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I just want to say that sorority girls dressed up for antebellum formals, while sketchy as fuck, can be hot as fuck.

And the internet will never forget them either.

1,1,1,x*,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1

1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1

*not into Marjorie Taylor Green

They're going for Scarlett O'Hara but calculated the windage wrong and hit "Irish Whorehouse in 1848 Baltimore."

Not that I have a problem with that.

[deadshank 24645]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"cries of"

you have them?

 

[RDCanecutter 25995]

14 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Do frats do any kind of actual service? Is there a point to them other than get shitfaced and have an “elite” social group where you can all get each others jobs at your dads’ firms?

 Kinda poking fun, but also that is the literal point and they otherwise provide no benefit to society, right?

From personal experience they keep tshirt artists financially solvent. Prepare to draw lots of school mascots wearing attitudinous sunglasses. If that doesn't bother you, it can be like printing money.

[bad_teammate 13022]

3 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

From personal experience they keep tshirt artists financially solvent. Prepare to draw lots of school mascots wearing attitudinous sunglasses. If that doesn't bother you, it can be like printing money.

why are school mascots so pissed off all the time???

[deadshank 24645]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

why are school mascots so pissed off all the time???

because they are always "fighting"

[RDCanecutter 25995]

10 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i paid to meet more jewish people since about 6 total went to my high school. 

also because of how shy i am. 

Go back in time to the 90s, and take some of Dr. Bar-Adon's Hebrew classes. You will meet many Jewish people, as well as lots of cute Mexican girls who are about to decide they're Crypto.

[bad_teammate 13022]

nm

Edited June 17, 2021 by bad_teammate

[RDCanecutter 25995]

21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

why are school mascots so pissed off all the time???

They are pissed off some of the time. On party tshirts they more often adopt a very smug just-got-away-with-something smile, behind their sunglasses.

[RDCanecutter 25995]

I ain't gonna lie, I don't see why a Black guy would join a White frat unless somebody paid him to.

But after meeting lots of guys who were in Black frats, if I went back in time my White self would join one of those, if they'd have me. For one thing, they demanded some discipline and a decent GPA, two things I badly needed.

[Bateshorn 9612]

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

nm

I don’t know for sure what this NM is about, but I’m also not taking that obvious bait.

 

32 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

From personal experience they keep tshirt artists financially solvent. Prepare to draw lots of school mascots wearing attitudinous sunglasses. If that doesn't bother you, it can be like printing money.

How are Calvin and Hobbes going to have any fun if not at Spring Fling?

 

Fun fact: Bill Watterson doesn’t license.  Literally every piece of Calvin and Hobbes merchandise you’ve ever seen is illegal.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Bateshorn

[Guest Lobo]

15 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I just want to say that sorority girls dressed up for antebellum formals, while sketchy as fuck, can be hot as fuck.

And the internet will never forget them either.

1,1,1,x*,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1

1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1

*not into Marjorie Taylor Green

I mean, were they trying to dress exactly like the Omega Mu's in RotN?  It's uncanny.  

[RDCanecutter 25995]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

Fun fact: Bill Watterson doesn’t license.  Literally every piece of Calvin and Hobbes merchandise you’ve ever seen is illegal.

You're nobody until somebody steals your art.

The only thing I remember bootlegging was a cartoon VW Beetle. Apparently, even though VW doesn't make any more cool cars, they have people scouring the internet making sure no artists evoke a time when they still made cool cars.

I figured after two engine rebuilds on my own Bug, I was due a cartoon. I was wrong.

[atomheartbevo 89052]

50 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

They're going for Scarlett O'Hara but calculated the windage wrong and hit "Irish Whorehouse in 1848 Baltimore."

[Jive Turkey 12433]

It's a fraternity, not a "frat."  You're just jealous you couldn't get into one.  /AlamoHeightsHorn

[Bateshorn 9612]

4 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

It's a fraternity, not a "frat."  You're just jealous you couldn't get into one.  /AlamoHeightsHorn

Shouldn’t you have something better  to do, like losing to Westlake in the playoffs?/Bateshorn

[bad_teammate 13022]

"You're just jealous (that you didn't grow up with money, to a family with a history of higher education and financial success, in an area with high concentrations of educated/connected people)!"

Well, yes, of course.

[Celery Man 20607]

Social life/brotherhood makes sense, that's a thing we all want and especially at that period in our lives. For me, I couldn't have told you the name of a frat at any point when I was at UT without stringing together greek letters and getting lucky. I had no interest because those are not my dudes. That's probably exactly the challenge of any fraternity who had an interest in bringing in some black diversity. I'm a white upper middle class dude who likes/liked UT football, pussy, and drinking. Despite all that commonality I'm definitely not a frat dude so I didn't look at frats (and they wouldn't have looked at me for the same reason, I'm sure). At a school with so many options of how to find that social life and those close connections, who are the black white frat dudes?

I think b_t's post touched on or addressed directly the weirdness that would come with trying to make frats more diverse or inclusive. They're not, which is at least largely the point. It's better if the exclusion is based more on "people who wear the wrong brand of fishing shirt and are kinda poor" than "people who differ from me racially", but does that difference change frats radically, or is that distinction even really possible? 

again, not mad and not trying to shit on frats, and I'm sure the reality is at least slightly more complex than dude bros pounding beers and taking advantage of the women folk. it's an interesting thing to think about