Happy Juneteenth, fellow Horns!

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

Absolute Equality

[Scheiss Meister 8408]

We're not there, yet.  The best time to get there was 400 years ago.  The second best time is now.

[brakeman 28409]

 

[Longhornstampede 3185]

Shoulda gone traipsing around Joppe this afternoon with some 40s

[Ten Bears 2481]

Did UT observe Junteenth as a holiday on Friday?

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

The sudden national fascination with our long-celebrated Texas tradition is fascinating. 

[achooloco 1072]

2 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

The sudden national fascination with our long-celebrated Texas tradition is fascinating. 

Should go in another thread but first off, happy Juneteenth to all my fellow Texans. Second, it feels weird as fuck seeing non-Texans celebrating it. I have no clue if African Americans celebrated Juneteenth in Oregon or Maine or South Dakota or nyc before but the ig follow atx barrio archive has a pic of 1985 Juneteenth with run dmc playing a show. Doubt they’d play in Texas if Juneteenth meant fuck all in yankee land back in the 1980s. Whatever, I’ll leave it for a better poster to start another thread so happy Juneteenth! 

 

[GRHorn 105]

18 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

The sudden national fascination with our long-celebrated Texas tradition is fascinating. 

It’s the start of new traditions nationwide. 

 

['stache 21825]

19 hours ago, achooloco said:

Should go in another thread but first off, happy Juneteenth to all my fellow Texans. Second, it feels weird as fuck seeing non-Texans celebrating it. I have no clue if African Americans celebrated Juneteenth in Oregon or Maine or South Dakota or nyc before but the ig follow atx barrio archive has a pic of 1985 Juneteenth with run dmc playing a show. Doubt they’d play in Texas if Juneteenth meant fuck all in yankee land back in the 1980s. Whatever, I’ll leave it for a better poster to start another thread so happy Juneteenth! 

 

The events occurred in Texas, but as I understand it, the growing movement recognizing it nationwide is because these were the last of the enslaved people in the United States to be formally freed by the Union army. I know there are some exceptions to that broad statement, but that's my understanding of how it has grown to be celebrated outside of Texas. One could just as easily celebrate the day of the Emancipation Proclamations, but that really didn't have any direct effect until after the war was won and the army made it to Texas, then the farthest reaches of the states in which slavery was still occurring. 

[Brisketexan 105180]

11 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The events occurred in Texas, but as I understand it, the growing movement recognizing it nationwide is because these were the last of the enslaved people in the United States to be formally freed by the Union army. I know there are some exceptions to that broad statement, but that's my understanding of how it has grown to be celebrated outside of Texas. One could just as easily celebrate the day of the Emancipation Proclamations, but that really didn't have any direct effect until after the war was won and the army made it to Texas, then the farthest reaches of the states in which slavery was still occurring. 

As I understand, that's the reasoning.  It is the bookend official end of slavery in the US.  And yes, that means Texas was last state on that train.  Of course.

I've always thought it was a damned cool holiday, because it was tied to something real, and celebrated in its own right for a long time, regardless of any official label or approval.

[TwiceHorn 31513]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

As I understand, that's the reasoning.  It is the bookend official end of slavery in the US.  And yes, that means Texas was last state on that train.  Of course.

I've always thought it was a damned cool holiday, because it was tied to something real, and celebrated in its own right for a long time, regardless of any official label or approval.

Word of the Union victory and prior emancipation was slow throughout the south, but particularly those Confederate states west of the Mississippi.

A combination of slow communication and disincentive to be honest.

Juneteenth has been a thing in Arkansas forever.

Edited June 21, 2021 by TwiceHorn

['stache 21825]

16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Word of the Union victory and prior emancipation was slow throughout the south, but particularly those Confederate states west of the Mississippi.

A combination of slow communication and disincentive to be honest.

Juneteenth has been a thing in Arkansas forever.

It's been a big thing in Tulsa too for many years, even though we're one of the few exceptions where slavery was still practiced by some Native American tribes for at least a year or so after Juneteenth. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

It almost died out but some politicos and arts types saved it in Houston via the Juneteenth Blues Festival, which got started circa 1972. At the time, both the blues and Juneteenth were seen as relics of an era best forgotten but this yearly fest started a turnaround for both. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

16 hours ago, 'stache said:

It's been a big thing in Tulsa too for many years, even though we're one of the few exceptions where slavery was still practiced by some Native American tribes for at least a year or so after Juneteenth. 

I was curious about Juneteenth outside of Texas and was reading the wikipedia article and saw that. It looks like the Choctaw were formally practicing African Slavery until the reconstruction treaty with them was ratified on June 28, 1866 and proclaimed July 10, 1866. I'm not sure which would have been the proper date for it to be in effect, but that is a solid year after Juneteenth. If I had to guess why we still cited Juneteenth as the end of Slavery in the US, I would think that there was in the past some anti-Indian bias justified by the fact that they are "sovereign nations" within our borders that has now instead become a general reluctance to say anything negative about our native populations.

['stache 21825]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I was curious about Juneteenth outside of Texas and was reading the wikipedia article and saw that. It looks like the Choctaw were formally practicing African Slavery until the reconstruction treaty with them was ratified on June 28, 1866 and proclaimed July 10, 1866. I'm not sure which would have been the proper date for it to be in effect, but that is a solid year after Juneteenth. If I had to guess why we still cited Juneteenth as the end of Slavery in the US, I would think that there was in the past some anti-Indian bias justified by the fact that they are "sovereign nations" within our borders that has now instead become a general reluctance to say anything negative about our native populations.

Indians weren’t American citizens at the time, and Indian land was still only “controlled” by the US by treaty. Neither the Emancipation Proclamation nor the Reconstruction Amendments applied in IT. There are several other complexities, but for the most part, I think the statement that Juneteenth ended “American” slavery has some technical truth. Sort of an exception by technicality. Emancipation in Indian Territory also had several differences from emancipation in the former confederate states, including that the Indian nations were supposed to accept their Freedmen as tribal citizens. That issue has been bubbling for decades and only recently did the Cherokee Nation accept the Freedman treaty rights after prior administrations lost lawsuits. Other tribes are seeing the writing in the wall and are ending their fights against the Freedmen. I can assure you it has nothing to do with not wanting to say “negative” things Native Americans. There’s never been a time in US history that people in general gave two shits about respecting or being “nice” to native peoples. 

I think the Juneteenth celebrations in Oklahoma derive more from the influx of former slaves and descendants into Indian and Oklahoma Territories between the Civil War and statehood who came here to escape Jim Crow laws that were taking hold in former confederate states. IT was still a Wild West of sorts. It was under federal jurisdiction and the laws of Arkansas applied, but only federal officials and courts could enforce them. Several all-black towns developed and thrived through self governance of sorts, including what later became the Greenwood area of North Tulsa, before it was destroyed by the 1921 Massacre. The point being that many formerly enslaved people from Texas probably came to Indian Territory after being freed on Juneteenth and might explain its popularity even before the more recent recognitions. 

I can recommend a pretty good book about Oklahoma’s all black towns, although I have not read it yet, it's still on my list to read. The author is a friend and his other books in black history in Oklahoma which I have read are excellent. https://www.amazon.com/Acres-Aspiration-All-Black-Towns-Oklahoma/dp/0978915038/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlMaGBhD3ARIsAPvWd6hl9_bVV9M_Dl9z0xK0f638H-QBhqW3sPP7jZQOBqtrgLwB4cFTWD8aAtheEALw_wcB&hvadid=241580523338&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1024352&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14936666952769433710&hvtargid=kwd-1852266248&keywords=acres+of+aspiration&qid=1624374764&sr=8-3

[fattyflattie 4638]

21 hours ago, GRHorn said:

It’s the start of new traditions nationwide. 

 

Couldn’t tell if the shooting was all at one place or all over. Figured I’d see this somewhere, was guessing the mass shooting thread. 
 

Belated happy Juneteenth to our AA posters.  I knew it existed, but never really knew it was as big a deal (celebration) until it started gaining national popularity.  

['stache 21825]

22 hours ago, GRHorn said:

It’s the start of new traditions nationwide. 

 

I took my daughter to Tulsa's Juneteenth, which was announced as the biggest in the nation. We were with some friends and their kids. I had this in the back of my of my head unfortunately, but I wasn't going to let fear of hate prevent me from showing support.

[Brisketexan 105180]

This morning, NPR read aloud the entire Emancipation Proclamation.  Holy shit was it moving.  Here's the full transcript of the Proclamation:

Quote

A Proclamation.

Whereas, on the twenty-second day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-two, a proclamation was issued by the President of the United States, containing, among other things, the following, to wit:

"That on the first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the Executive Government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom.

"That the Executive will, on the first day of January aforesaid, by proclamation, designate the States and parts of States, if any, in which the people thereof, respectively, shall then be in rebellion against the United States; and the fact that any State, or the people thereof, shall on that day be, in good faith, represented in the Congress of the United States by members chosen thereto at elections wherein a majority of the qualified voters of such State shall have participated, shall, in the absence of strong countervailing testimony, be deemed conclusive evidence that such State, and the people thereof, are not then in rebellion against the United States."

Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion, do, on this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and in accordance with my purpose so to do publicly proclaimed for the full period of one hundred days, from the day first above mentioned, order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States, the following, to wit:

Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.

And by virtue of the power, and for the purpose aforesaid, I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States, and parts of States, are, and henceforward shall be free; and that the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons.

And I hereby enjoin upon the people so declared to be free to abstain from all violence, unless in necessary self-defence; and I recommend to them that, in all cases when allowed, they labor faithfully for reasonable wages.

And I further declare and make known, that such persons of suitable condition, will be received into the armed service of the United States to garrison forts, positions, stations, and other places, and to man vessels of all sorts in said service.

And upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution, upon military necessity, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind, and the gracious favor of Almighty God.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington, this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three, and of the Independence of the United States of America the eighty-seventh.

By the President: ABRAHAM LINCOLN
WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.

For those of us today, "no one is free until we all are free."  Juneteenth is important for black Americans, but it has to be important for everyone else, too.  Why wouldn't we celebrate the freedom of our fellow Americans?  If we want to live into e pluribus unum, that's part of it.  And something as simple as "support black-owned businesses" is only a start.  Black-owned businesses are just that....businesses.  In our community.  They are part of the fabric of our community as a whole.  I've recently touted one near and dear to me, Hoover's Cooking.  Black-owned, and an Austin institution.  My wife and I ate dinner there the night she was in labor with our first child (dinner, then about 15 hours later, we were a family of 3 instead of just 2).  Hoover's has had a tough go of it through and post-pandemic.  He's making it work, but could use some more support.  So, a reminder to put Hoover's back on your list, maybe hit it up in the next couple of weeks (closed today, though -- closed on Mondays).

Freedom is a journey.  It didn't end with the reading of the Proclamation in Galveston (far from it).  It's been a long walk, and will continue to be.  But every journey is better when we walk it together, and listen to the stories and experiences of those who have been walking it the longest.

[CycleTex87 2979]

I heard it also.  Don't guess I've ever heard the full text before.  The listing of a bunch of Louisiana parishes that were not affected (non rebelling) was interesting.  Didn't know that.  Some of the enforcement of the proclamation are still a little tepid in the 21st century.

[Armybrat 40857]

8 minutes ago, CycleTex87 said:

I heard it also.  Don't guess I've ever heard the full text before.  The listing of a bunch of Louisiana parishes that were not affected (non rebelling) was interesting.  Didn't know that.  Some of the enforcement of the proclamation are still a little tepid in the 21st century.

When my brother lived in Alexandria for 10 years in the 1980s, he said those people seemed like they never heard of Emancipation.

[Brisketexan 105180]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

When my brother lived in Alexandria for 10 years in the 1980s, he said those people seemed like they never heard of Emancipation.

I had the same experience DEEP in the swamp/riverbottom on the LA/MISS border back around 1990.  Holy.  Shit.  It was eye-opening as hell.

[landman 559]

I get Juneteenth for Texas, but seems the 13th Amendment would be the better celebration for a national holiday.

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I had the same experience DEEP in the swamp/riverbottom on the LA/MISS border back around 1990.  Holy.  Shit.  It was eye-opening as hell.

Saw a ‘if I knew it was going to be this much trouble I would have just picked the damn cotton myself’ bumper sticker passing through Alexandria on my way back from NO in the 90’s.  All kinds of stupid in that statement, but that’s what it said. Central Louisiana ain’t real high on my list of places I want to live.

[bolverk 29696]

1 hour ago, landman said:

I get Juneteenth for Texas, but seems the 13th Amendment would be the better celebration for a national holiday.

It was already a tradition that had organically spread out from Texas years ago and was celebrated in the Black community nationwide, so this was the natural date for it to occur. Maybe celebrate the fact that, over time, what was once a uniquely Texas tradition among our African American brothers and sisters has had such a major impact on the rest of the country.

[ztejas 43524]

I feel like it says a lot about Juneteenth that y'all just bumped the thread from 2 years ago instead of starting a new one. 

[ztejas 43524]

2 hours ago, landman said:

I get Juneteenth for Texas, but seems the 13th Amendment would be the better celebration for a national holiday.

Disagree. The 13th amendment didn't effectively free anybody from their physical circumstance. Juneteenth was 2.5 years after the 13th amendment and a month after the war had ended. If you were black in Texas the 13th amendment didn't mean shit to you. (and we were the furthest state West during the Civil War and the last state that technically "freed" all its slaves)

[JBJ 3664]

11 hours ago, ztejas said:

Disagree. The 13th amendment didn't effectively free anybody from their physical circumstance. Juneteenth was 2.5 years after the 13th amendment and a month after the war had ended. If you were black in Texas the 13th amendment didn't mean shit to you. (and we were the furthest state West during the Civil War and the last state that technically "freed" all its slaves)

This is just wrong.

Juneteenth was 2.5 years after the Emancipation Proclamation.  It was the actual enforcement of such after the theater of war in the Mississippi Basin/ Galveston ended.

The 13th amendment was after Juneteenth and did effectively free slaves.

Delaware and Kentucky never abolished slavery at the state level and it was still practiced there until the passing of the 13th amendment.

It really makes zero sense as a national holiday.

[CooterBrown 18016]

I remember distinctly being taught in 7th grade Texas history that it took so long for Texas slaves to be freed was because it took 2.5 years for the message to arrive to Texas. In hindsight, such a Texan thing to teach kids.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

It makes sense to celebrate it as a national holiday because it was already being celebrated throughout much of the country. If it had not spread throughout the country, then the ratification of the 13th amendment would make more sense. But even then, it was not until the summer of 1866 that the slaves owned by all of the five civilized tribes were freed.

[TwiceHorn 31513]

I was reading the wiki, and, bizarrely, Texas recognized the holiday by proclamation in 1938.  And I am almost certain, but can't prove it, that a lynching occurred that year in our great state.

Some of the shit we do in regard to race is so bizarre and schizophrenic.

[Brisketexan 105180]

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

This is just wrong.

Juneteenth was 2.5 years after the Emancipation Proclamation.  It was the actual enforcement of such after the theater of war in the Mississippi Basin/ Galveston ended.

The 13th amendment was after Juneteenth and did effectively free slaves.

Delaware and Kentucky never abolished slavery at the state level and it was still practiced there until the passing of the 13th amendment.

It really makes zero sense as a national holiday.

It's based on something that was more spontaneous, and truly felt/perceived.  Signing a piece of paper is nice, but actual liberation was what was accomplished on Juneteenth.  It was organically perceived and celebrated by the free black community.  They were the ones who were freed, and THEY were the ones who perceived and felt Juneteenth as their liberation day.  In the rest of the country, emancipation and freedom largely came in dribs and drabs.  In Galveston and Texas, it came in one fell swoop on Juneteenth.

Free black people celebrated Juneteenth as their liberation day.  They are our fellow Americans.  If that's when they celebrate their freedom, then that's when WE celebrate their freedom.  If we (the rest of the country) told them "cool, I get that you celebrated your freedom on Juneteenth, but now we're gonna tell you how it's gonna be -- you need to celebrate on the day the proclamation was signed [or whatever date we decree]," that misses the entire point.  In fact, it's counter to the entire point.

But then, I grew up in Houston, where Juneteenth was always a thing.  I remember being at parks on Juneteenth, and the crowds were gathered there grilling, having a good time, and genuinely celebrating.  It wasn't so much official as it was organic and sincere.  That's kinda the best basis for a holiday and celebration.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

I'm sure that those slaves in Delaware, Kentucky, New Jersey, and Indian Territory who were still enslaved on Juneteenth felt the same...

But on a serious note, the reason it makes sense to me is that it grew organically into what it is now. But we do need to do a better job of informing people what exactly Juneteenth is and what it did and didn't do.

[Samson's Wig 3194]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was reading the wiki, and, bizarrely, Texas recognized the holiday by proclamation in 1938.  And I am almost certain, but can't prove it, that a lynching occurred that year in our great state.

Some of the shit we do in regard to race is so bizarre and schizophrenic.

It's almost as if Texas is large, and contains multitudes.

At any given time there are going to be a few people doing the right thing, a few people doing the wrong thing, and most people doing what seems like the right thing at the time but turns out to be the wrong thing once younger, smarter, and more enlightened people come along to point it out.  The best we can do is try not to take a small sample size of shit behavior and attribute it to everyone (GRhorn's bullshit post up-thread comes to mind), while also recognizing that we shouldnt' take a small sample size of good behavior and attribute it to everyone.   There will always be work to do.