Gun Control or some other bullshit

[GW Hayduke 1952]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Then could easily provide a bevvy of statistics of concealed and open carry attackers that opened up in bars and restaurants and other public venues.  There a tens of millions of them, so your sample size should be easy to validate.  Then cross reference these deaths with the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of deaths each year attributed to hands and feet.  

[Js1 85112]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Seriously Yaga, that's some of the dumbest shit ever posted here and there's been lots of dumb shit posted. When you defend an absolutist position on gun rights like that, you're actively hurting your cause. So I guess... keep it up.

That idiocy absolutely just makes me hate them even more. 

[Archer 474]

The guy appears to have handcuffs behind his spare magazine. I’ve been around a couple folks who carry and none of them wear cuffs on their bat belt. I’m betting he’s either LEO or armed security somewhere. 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

Just now, Js1 said:

That idiocy absolutely just makes me hate them even more. 

I find it most productive to consider how people get their brain melted like baby yaga.

He believed Fauci was the main conspirator with covid, which followed precisely with what right wing propaganda was telling him.  The emails released by FOIA was a big deal for him. I was never able to get from him anything about his background other than be sources breitbart, Tucker Carlson, and other dubious sources.  

Now in the gun thread, he seems to think a statistical analysis comparing firearms with hands/feet is somehow relevant to the debate around concealed/open carry.  

The real question is probably something along the lines of, "If someone is captured by propaganda, do they know?"  I'm thinking along the lines of acknowledgment of a problem is often the first step toward fixing.

[wildcat09 29258]

The idea that someone would even bother actually studying whether someone with a gun in a public place is more dangerous to everyone else there than someone who knows martial arts is wild. 

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Archer said:

or armed security somewhere. 

Hard to believe a Hobby Lobby security guard can afford to frequent a place like Mia's.  

[BabaYaga 15212]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

I find it most productive to consider how people get their brain melted like baby yaga.

He believed Fauci was the main conspirator with covid, which followed precisely with what right wing propaganda was telling him.  The emails released by FOIA was a big deal for him. I was never able to get from him anything about his background other than be sources breitbart, Tucker Carlson, and other dubious sources.  

Now in the gun thread, he seems to think a statistical analysis comparing firearms with hands/feet is somehow relevant to the debate around concealed/open carry.  

The real question is probably something along the lines of, "If someone is captured by propaganda, do they know?"  I'm thinking along the lines of acknowledgment of a problem is often the first step toward fixing.

I did?  Really?  Or did I question why the man took advantage of a new administration in 2017 after the prior banned his research due to safety reasons to set up a shop in a foreign country doing GOF research funded by the US?  Weird, right?  Then have the same guy who controls millions if not billions in GOF research money be the same guy repeatedly telling us GOF research and a lab leak hypothesis were preposterous ideas

Or why, if concealed and open carriers are such threats to your personal safety, where are all the bodies?  Since 2007 there have been roughly 1,000+ deaths attributed to CHL carriers NOT related to self-defense.  Of those, more than half were suicides.  

LAST YEAR more than 700 people were killed by hands and feet.  So sure, you want to keep fucking that chicken, by all means.  COULD carriers kill more.  Sure, but they aren't.  So this idea that they are "threat" to anyone is absurd when you look at the actual causes of death YOY.  

[BabaYaga 15212]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Hard to believe a Hobby Lobby security guard can afford to frequent a place like Mia's.  

He's probably LEO.  Not just a random open carry guy

[Nivek 16861]

Not you personally, the gun-control crowd.  As for more laws, eWe have more than twenty thousand municipal, county, state, and federal gun laws on the books right now.  Many that we currently cannot manage today effectively.  So anyone squawking about more and more and more laws when we cannot even enforce the some of current ones on the books either doesn't know what they are talking about or doesn't care to learn.  You want consensus from gun owners, start with a platform to close every gap with the current laws on the books.  If the laws are crap, then we talk about pulling them down, but it's ridiculous to talk about more laws when we can't enforce all the current ones (NICS misses for example).  

More effective laws is what we need. And 10000 municipalities having 2 laws each does mean we have 20000 laws, but its not the same as being over-regulated.

[GW Hayduke 1952]

20 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I did?  Really?  Or did I question why the man took advantage of a new administration in 2017 after the prior banned his research due to safety reasons to set up a shop in a foreign country doing GOF research funded by the US?  Weird, right?  Then have the same guy who controls millions if not billions in GOF research money be the same guy repeatedly telling us GOF research and a lab leak hypothesis were preposterous ideas

Or why, if concealed and open carriers are such threats to your personal safety, where are all the bodies?  Since 2007 there have been roughly 1,000+ deaths attributed to CHL carriers NOT related to self-defense.  Of those, more than half were suicides.  

LAST YEAR more than 700 people were killed by hands and feet.  So sure, you want to keep fucking that chicken, by all means.  COULD carriers kill more.  Sure, but they aren't.  So this idea that they are "threat" to anyone is absurd when you look at the actual causes of death YOY.  

I get it. You've cracked the code on Fauci!!!  It is everyone else who has melted brains!!

On 6/2/2021 at 4:46 PM, BabaYaga said:

Fauci wrote in 2012 that gain-of-function research could "spark a pandemic" but he felt the benefits of it outweighed the risks.  Obama shut him down in 2014.  Under the nose of Trump, he started them back up in Wuhan with US grant money in 2017.  He covered-up a possible lab origin not just from the public but from the most senior White House national security officials as he knew this would lead back in time to his ties to this lab and it's GOF research being done there.  

 

 

 

On 6/2/2021 at 5:24 PM, BabaYaga said:

Are you this unaware?  JFC.  Why am I not surprised...

All GOF research goes through Faucci.  He is the godfather of GOF research.  Over 15 years more than $230M went into the these labs.  Specifically, ACE2 receptors in human lung tissue to try and prevent and predict the next pandemic. 

In 2014 Obama shut him down citing safety concerns. 

In 2017 he quietly re-opened the research and much of the research moved to Wuhan...on his own, without WH approval

In 2018 the lab was cited for safety violations

Faucci is THE premier actor in GOF research.  He controls all the NIH and other grant money; including the $3.7M grant most recently approved for GOF research on the horsehoe bats.  We are learning that he knew from day one this was a genetically created virus from the labs he helped fund.  Jesus, when it first broke, Robert Redfield, head of the CDC and respected virologist told us it came from a lab....and he was castigated, called a racist, etc.  

These emails clearly illustrate Faucci trying to cover his own ass for an outbreak he himself predicted could very well happen back into 2012, but thought the research too valuable to stop.  

 

 

[BabaYaga 15212]

2 minutes ago, Nivek said:

More effective laws is what we need. And 10000 municipalities having 2 laws each does mean we have 20000 laws, but its not the same as being over-regulated.

Then start with the NICS database.  This is a federal database that has admittedly missed multiple straw buyers and buyers that should have been flagged but were still allowed per the background check to buy the guns then commit the crimes.

Do you see how absurd it is to argue for expanded background checks when we can't facilitate the background process currently on the books?

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

It’s troll feeding time and the buffet is open. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

27 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I did?  Really?  Or did I question why the man took advantage of a new administration in 2017 after the prior banned his research due to safety reasons to set up a shop in a foreign country doing GOF research funded by the US?  Weird, right?  Then have the same guy who controls millions if not billions in GOF research money be the same guy repeatedly telling us GOF research and a lab leak hypothesis were preposterous ideas

Or why, if concealed and open carriers are such threats to your personal safety, where are all the bodies?  Since 2007 there have been roughly 1,000+ deaths attributed to CHL carriers NOT related to self-defense.  Of those, more than half were suicides.  

LAST YEAR more than 700 people were killed by hands and feet.  So sure, you want to keep fucking that chicken, by all means.  COULD carriers kill more.  Sure, but they aren't.  So this idea that they are "threat" to anyone is absurd when you look at the actual causes of death YOY.  

since you never cite any source, i went and looked it up:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

interestingly, in 2019, yes, 600 people killed by hands and feet.

looks like 9,500 were killed by guns.

totally comparable.

eyeroll.

[Guest Lobo]

When deadly hands are outlawed, only feet will have guns.  

Dammit, I had something for this.  

[GW Hayduke 1952]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

 

Do you see how absurd it is to argue for expanded background checks when we can't facilitate the background process currently on the books?

The system isn't perfect, so we shouldn't make an effort to fix the system!!!

[Hank Kingsley 20708]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

He's an idiot for open carrying, but he's no more a threat than anyone else that can pick up a bottle, chair, or open a pocket knife and cut your throat or a BJJ practitioner that can snap your neck in a matter of seconds or crush your windpipe.  

[BabaYaga 15212]

6 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

The system isn't perfect, so we shouldn't make an effort to fix the system!!!

Are you completely fucking retarded?  I clearly stated earlier that there would and is common ground between both sides - specifically on vetting and fixing current laws on the books that both sides support but we are unable to maintain them.  Shoring up the NICS database is one of them.  Straw buyers are another.  Fucking clown....

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Then could easily provide a bevvy of statistics of concealed and open carry attackers that opened up in bars and restaurants and other public venues.  There a tens of millions of them, so your sample size should be easy to validate.  Then cross reference these deaths with the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of deaths each year attributed to hands and feet.  

Hands and feet don't kill people. People with hands and feet kill people!

[GW Hayduke 1952]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Are you completely fucking retarded?  I clearly stated earlier that there would and is common ground between both sides - specifically on vetting and fixing current laws on the books that both sides support but we are unable to maintain them.  Shoring up the NICS database is one of them.  Straw buyers are another.  Fucking clown....

Uhhh.  You are the clown that thinks expanding background checks as an absurd idea - an "absurd idea" because the existing system isn't perfect.   

20 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

 

Do you see how absurd it is to argue for expanded background checks when we can't facilitate the background process currently on the books?

[BabaYaga 15212]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

since you never cite any source, i went and looked it up:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

interestingly, in 2019, yes, 600 people killed by hands and feet.

looks like 9,500 were killed by guns.

totally comparable.

eyeroll.

We're not talking ALL guns.  This is specifically in reference to CHL and open carry.  Since 2007 you have roughly 1,000+/- deaths by this group.  More than half are suicides. 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

We're not talking ALL guns.  This is specifically in reference to CHL and open carry.  Since 2007 you have roughly 1,000+/- deaths by this group.  More than half are suicides. 

Why no sources?  Seems eerily familiar to Tucker Carlson's Fauci narratives.  Hmmm. I wonder why that is.

[BabaYaga 15212]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Uhhh.  You are the clown that thinks expanding background checks as an absurd idea - an "absurd idea" because the existing system isn't perfect.   

24 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So let me get this straight.  The current background check process doesn't work, so instead of fixing that one, we just need to layer and even more complicated one on top of it?  That about right?  As most expanded background proposals involve expanding the NICS database...the one currently in use that keeps missing people it should have caught?

Like I said, fucking clown....

[GW Hayduke 1952]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

So let me get this straight.  The current background check process doesn't work, so instead of fixing that one, we just need to layer and even more complicated one on top of it?  That about right?  As most expanded background proposals involve expanding the NICS database...the one currently in use that keeps missing people it should have caught?

Like I said, fucking clown....

Yes.  Being against expanding background checks is clownish.  Even more so, when your reason is because the existing system isn't perfect.  The only thing I can do is point out to you that your brain is melted and your position is dumb.  I know the progun propaganda tells you to be against universal background checks and they give you reasons, but when those reasons are dumb, you need to be able to stop parroting.  

 

 

[safe sex 11684]

2 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

This fucking guy was at the bar at Mia’s last night. 

What a fucking loser.

[Guest Lobo]

^ 

I bet you only looked at those hip shoes and khakis as he looms over those two unfortunate females and came to that conclusion.  And the open carry only sealed the seal.  

If anybody on here can "enhance...enhance...enhance..."; I'd be very curious to know what his right wristband entitles him to?  

[RomaVicta 29794]

I really love the multiple clips. What fantasy lives in his mind about being the good guy with a gun spraying dozens of rounds in a bar under attack by ISIS, AOC, and Charlie Whitman?

It will never. Never. Never play out the way he imagines it.

He should just stick to regular masturbation and leave psycho fantasies to the pros.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

he also takes his daughters with him everywhere he goes so people know he's gotten laid.

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I want everyone who can pass a thorough background check and prove safe and secure methods of storage to be able to own as many guns as their hearts' content. Everyone else can fuck right off.

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I think the gun owner=small penis joke is lazy and played out...BUT I'll make an exception for open carriers. What a bunch of pussies and what a stupid law.

Aside from the whole aggy thing, might you have a newsletter I can subscribe to? I’d vote for someone who felt like this. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

25 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We're not talking ALL guns.  This is specifically in reference to CHL and open carry.  Since 2007 you have roughly 1,000+/- deaths by this group.  More than half are suicides. 

ah, okay. how many crimes have been stopped by a chl person? with a citation, please. i simply do not buy the "good guy with a gun" narrative any longer. i'm sure that there is the odd case here and there, but it is not at all widespread. "more guns" does not mean "more safety." more guns means more gun deaths. 

full disclosure, i own two guns, a 9mm handgun and a single shot 410 shotgun.

[4th&Five 41461]

I'm guessing there is a ton of overlap in the "America is the greatest country God has ever created!" and the "I have to be strapped at all times because everyone wants to kill me!" crowds.

[fattyflattie 4636]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

full disclosure, i own two guns, a 9mm handgun and a single shot 410 shotgun.

“I’ve got a black friend”. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

4 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

I'm guessing there is a ton of overlap in the "America is the greatest country God has ever created!" and the "I have to be strapped at all times because everyone wants to kill me!" crowds.

pretty damn near a circle

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

24 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I really love the multiple clips. What fantasy lives in his mind about being the good guy with a gun spraying dozens of rounds in a bar under attack by ISIS, AOC, and Charlie Whitman?

It will never. Never. Never play out the way he imagines it.

He should just stick to regular masturbation and leave psycho fantasies to the pros.

I'm seeing one extra magazine and what looks like handcuffs. Probably a cop, as others have said. But do go on about your fantasies of his fantasies, lol.

[RomaVicta 29794]

6 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm seeing one extra magazine and what looks like handcuffs. Probably a cop, as others have said. But do go on about your fantasies of his fantasies, lol.

I should have assumed the invaders of the Capitol were also cops because they had flextie handcuffs as well, I suppose. I suppose I should also feel comforted that a likely off duty cop is flashing his weapon in a bar. lol.

Why don't you jump up my ass.

Edited June 21, 2021 by RomaVicta

[BabaYaga 15212]

44 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Yes.  Being against expanding background checks is clownish.  Even more so, when your reason is because the existing system isn't perfect.  The only thing I can do is point out to you that your brain is melted and your position is dumb.  I know the progun propaganda tells you to be against universal background checks and they give you reasons, but when those reasons are dumb, you need to be able to stop parroting.  

 

 

Who said I was against expanded checks?  I said expanding the current system that us unable to match the current demand and expand it a matter of multiples is fucking stupid.  But you can't or won't see that....or are you saying we need to scrap the current NICS database and process, and build a completely new one from scratch?  If you, so are a weapons-grade moron.  

[BabaYaga 15212]

9 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm seeing one extra magazine and what looks like handcuffs. Probably a cop, as others have said. But do go on about your fantasies of his fantasies, lol.

Hey, if he "makes you uncomfortable" or feel "threatened", then your feelings are all that matter.....

[BabaYaga 15212]

28 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

ah, okay. how many crimes have been stopped by a chl person? with a citation, please. i simply do not buy the "good guy with a gun" narrative any longer. i'm sure that there is the odd case here and there, but it is not at all widespread. "more guns" does not mean "more safety." more guns means more gun deaths. 

full disclosure, i own two guns, a 9mm handgun and a single shot 410 shotgun.

According to the CDC, it's in the millions each year....but hey, you have a single shot .410.....

Quote

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Who said I was against expanded checks?  I said expanding the current system that us unable to match the current demand and expand it a matter of multiples is fucking stupid.  But you can't or won't see that....or are you saying we need to scrap the current NICS database and process, and build a completely new one from scratch?  If you, so are a weapons-grade moron.  

I get it.  You are only for expanded background checks once the system is perfect.  I've already clowned on that enough.  

Even though the progun propaganda tells you accept dumb positions, you don't have to parrot.  

[DDD Dad 14252]

The guy appears to have handcuffs behind his spare magazine. I’ve been around a couple folks who carry and none of them wear cuffs on their bat belt. I’m betting he’s either LEO or armed security somewhere. 

He had a badge of some sort on his belt but the guy was completely slobbed out. Shirt untucked, gut hanging out.

I don’t care if he’s fucking FBI he shouldn’t be bringing in a gun with an extra magazine at the FUCKING BAR.

I guess we’re not far from Deadwood, cocksucker.

[hayden_horn 11360]

why am i getting shit on for owning guns?

[BabaYaga 15212]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

I get it.  You are only for expanded background checks once the system is perfect.  I've already clowned on that enough.  

Even though the progun propaganda tells you accept dumb positions, you don't have to parrot.  

I'm not the one wanting to expand the capabilities of a system already missing an egregious number of people that should have been flagged, were able to buy a gun, and then go on to commit crimes with sed gun.  I know, I know....it's a wild and crazy stance to actually want to try and invest time and money into first fixing this system before asking it do even more.

 

[BabaYaga 15212]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

He had a badge of some sort on his belt but the guy was completely slobbed out. Shirt untucked, gut hanging out.

I don’t care if he’s fucking FBI he shouldn’t be bringing in a gun with an extra magazine at the FUCKING BAR.

I guess we’re not far from Deadwood, cocksucker.

100% agreed.  Not sure anyone is saying otherwise.  Further, I've said repeatedly open carry is fucking stupid as it gives up the one advantage a CHL carrier has:  the element of surprise.  

The ONLY time it might make sense is during hunting season, I will often carry on my hip when hog hunting and we go straight to the processor or a store.  I will sometimes leave it on, like at the gas station or grabbing something inside or to use the bathroom.  Never in a fucking bar (which is illegal anyways)

[henrygandorf 29178]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I'd argue about the "minority" part.  

yeah, you missed every possible drop of my point.

[Hate 20103]

why am i getting shit on for owning guns?

Because it’s just a matter of time before those guns kill someone.

[BabaYaga 15212]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

yeah, you missed every possible drop of my point.

as you apparently missed mine

[GW Hayduke 1952]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

According to the CDC, it's in the millions each year....but hey, you have a single shot .410.....

 

This is a lie.  That is not according to the CDC.  The CDC conducted a study and presented the range of findings related to firearms as a starting off point to direct future research.  

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3

As is the case with right wing propaganda, they misuse and misunderstand sourced information.  That is one of the underlying reasons your side is often viewed as clowns.

For other non-clowns, the discussion related to defensive uses:

Quote

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.

Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or injury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry—may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners, this could cancel or outweigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that relate to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration.

 

 

 

[henrygandorf 29178]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

as you apparently missed mine

you were talking about the minority in a gunowner poll.  i was making a point about the minority, or better put, the representatives of the minority who have been able to abuse the system to affect so many common sense and popular policies within the us legislature.

but i'd love to hear more about how your point was more important.

[TexLonghorn 5593]

Additionally, a "defensive use" of a gun does not imply that the defensive use actually stopped or even reduced the violence in the event.  The defensive use could have accelerated the offensive use or even created the offensive use if it caused an attacker to fire who otherwise wouldn't have.

Edited June 21, 2021 by TexLonghorn

[hayden_horn 11360]

9 minutes ago, Hate said:

Because it’s just a matter of time before those guns kill someone.

are you trying to convince me of something?

[BabaYaga 15212]

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

This is a lie.  That is not according to the CDC.  The CDC conducted a study and presented the range of findings related to firearms as a starting off point to direct future research.  

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3

As is the case with right wing propaganda, they misuse and misunderstand sourced information.  That is one of the underlying reasons your side is often viewed as clowns.

For other non-clowns, the discussion related to defensive uses:

 

 

 

Lol, the study affirmed millions of uses each year.  That was the question.  My quote you also included. Even if it is 100,00+ cases each year, that is a staggering number of instances of self defense.