Mass casualty building collapse in Miami

[Buzzrock 14921]

159 still missing after three days is awful. Is this the fastest they can work?

[phdhorn 6224]

Yes, it really is. You couldn't design a worse case scenario. A huge fire probably causing asphyxiation, it's so bad that the reporters need to wear masks. Add to that the combination of wind and rain making crane work less than ideal and very slow. The weather has probably greatly reduced the amount of speed at which they can work.

My biggest fear is that if anybody has been alive, the smoke will enhance their odds of dying. I suppose the only good thing about that is that they might go relatively calmly

Edited June 26, 2021 by phdhorn

[RPM 26322]

6 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Is this the fastest they can work?

There is the whole fire and smoke thingy.

[Nicole44 22060]

9 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

159 still missing after three days is awful. Is this the fastest they can work?

Sadly yes. Fires at the site are making rescue efforts nearly impossible. My heart goes out to the victims’ family members. One guy and his friends came to the site—his wife is missing—they offered to help but were turned away.
 

They kept trying to get on the rubble to look and were almost arrested. Then you have those in the Jewish faith whose custom dictates that a body must be found and given a proper burial or Heaven isn’t possible. The mayor and governor said the fires are causing a horrible sulfur like stench that is overwhelming. I hurt for the first responders. They are just encountering bodies now. And even at that not many of those. The fires are deep and they are having difficulty putting them out. Shit work now. Just recovery efforts and those are not going well. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Nicole44

[Armybrat 40850]

16 minutes ago, Blotto said:

probably not as much as the lawyers. Thousands of them probably descending on S Florida like locusts.

TJ Henry undoubtedly winging his way over there on his private Gulfstream jet as we type.

[Nicole44 22060]

Pictures of many of the missing.

 

https://wsvn.com/news/local/loved-ones-share-photos-of-those-missing-in-surfside-condo-collapse/

 

 

[Blotto 23525]

18 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

159 still missing after three days is awful. Is this the fastest they can work?

Quote

 

A fire has spread along the site of a partially collapsed condo in Florida, hindering rescue efforts, officials said Saturday. 

Firefighters have not been able to identify the source of the fire, Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said during a press conference on Saturday.

"We're facing very incredible difficulties with this fire," Cava said. "It's a very deep fire."

"It's extremely difficult to locate the source of the fire," she added.

 

 

[Nicole44 22060]

 

[Cajun 11711]

22 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Hard to know how the pool slab problem and parking deck might have interacted.  Total speculation:   Damage to slab and deck results in loss of fixity for columns at bottom.  Columns less stable.  Roof renovation loads push column loading over their reduced load limit.  This would be a chain of events that previous poster was alluding to.  Might explain the weird noises people were hearing the night before. The columns were in the process of buckling.  Complete speculation as I have no idea how this thing was built.  

Fixity.

Goddamn, that's a good word.  I'm gonna use that word!

All incorrectly, of course.  "Sir, you missed that deer because your weapon has a deficit of fixity.  That'll be $40 please."

Edited June 26, 2021 by Cajun

[Nicole44 22060]

You can really see how bad the smoke is today. 
 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Nicole44

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

46 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

I thought we were missing a few posters.

They are ready and experienced from previous swarms of roofers and insurance adjusters. 

[atomheartbevo 89686]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

My wife & I drove over this street two blocks from our son’s house the day before it collapsed into a sinkhole in our neighborhood three years ago:

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/sinkhole-in-williamson-county-neighborhood-reveals-a-deep-cave-under-3-homes

With the summer heat, if my house was over one a cave like that, I might try and work out something with the neighbors to make it into a naturally-cooled basement that covers 3 homes.

[atomheartbevo 89686]

49 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Hard to know how the pool slab problem and parking deck might have interacted.  Total speculation:   Damage to slab and deck results in loss of fixity for columns at bottom.  Columns less stable.  Roof renovation loads push column loading over their reduced load limit.  This would be a chain of events that previous poster was alluding to.  Might explain the weird noises people were hearing the night before. The columns were in the process of buckling.  Complete speculation as I have no idea how this thing was built.  

When I was living in Lubbock, I had a girlfriend who lived on one of the top floors of Coleman Hall at Tech, it was 12 stories I believe.  She claimed it would move a bit, but I told myself that was only when I was spending the night.  Anyways, I was never too happy about spending the night there.  I mean I was, but I wasn't, but yet I was.

I've always had this thing (phobia) about high rises, and not living in them.

[KaiserSoze 998]

When I was living in Lubbock, I had a girlfriend who lived on one of the top floors of Coleman Hall at Tech, it was 12 stories I believe.  She claimed it would move a bit, but I told myself that was only when I was spending the night.  Anyways, I was never too happy about spending the night there.  I mean I was, but I wasn't, but yet I was.
I've always had this thing (phobia) about high rises, and not living in them.

I lived on the 10th floor of Coleman one year. One night my gf and I were on my bed watching a movie and she looks at me and says, "Are you doing that?". Turns out the bed was shaking. I looked to my right (toward the door) and saw the clothes in my closet were swaying on their hangers.

30 seconds after that my neighbor opens my door and yells, "What the fuck!?". He had a fish tank and there were waves in it that eventually led to water spilling out of it.

Next thing we knew it all stopped. The next day there was a story in the paper that there had been an earthquake overnight and IIRC the epicenter was in Alpine (plenty far away). The news story said that the only people in Lubbock who reported anything were those living on the 5th floor or above in various buildings around town.

Anyway, CSB and all that... hadn't thought about that in ages.

[Rip76 4929]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

Pictures of many of the missing.

 

https://wsvn.com/news/local/loved-ones-share-photos-of-those-missing-in-surfside-condo-collapse/

 

 

Ugh horrible 

[Armybrat 40850]

38 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

With the summer heat, if my house was over one a cave like that, I might try and work out something with the neighbors to make it into a naturally-cooled basement that covers 3 homes.

The back half of the house on the corner there actually sits on top of the big rock column in the center of the first chamber. The house next to it has an in-ground pool (center of pic)sitting directly over the next cave chamber. The collapsed area under the street was filled in with many truckloads of concrete before it was paved over.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4891868,-97.7438546,75m/data=!3m1!1e3

Edited June 26, 2021 by Armybrat

[Nicole44 22060]

At a Saturday news conference, Miami-Dade Fire Chief Alan Cominsky said firefighters are continuing to evaluate options and modifying efforts in an attempt to reach survivors.

"As we are moving debris, and as the smoke is increasing, we still haven't come across any sign of life," Cominsky said. " But it's a very difficult situation and we continue to modify and adjust where we need to hopefully save some lives," he said.

"Debris is falling on them as they do their work. We have structural engineers on site to ensure that they will not be injured, but they are proceeding because they are so motivated and they are taking extraordinary risk on the site every day,” Levine Cava said Friday.

[Lhorn 4914]

1 hour ago, Nicole44 said:

Pictures of many of the missing.

https://wsvn.com/news/local/loved-ones-share-photos-of-those-missing-in-surfside-condo-collapse/

That is heartbreaking. 

[Nicole44 22060]

His replies are interesting. 

 

[Nicole44 22060]

Albert Aguero and his wife say they were asleep early Thursday morning in the Champlain Towers South building while his 22-year-old son and 14-year-old daughter were watching Netflix. That's when they heard a loud thud and felt the walls begin to shake, Aguero recounted to USA Today. 

When he looked outside, he found that the Surfside, Florida, condo was collapsing. 

"When we opened the door to the apartment is when we really realized what happened. I look to the left and there was honestly nothing," he told the outlet. "The apartment to the left of us had been sheared in half. I looked forward to the elevators, directly across from us, and there was just two holes." 

Realizing the rest of the building could soon collapse, Aguero and his family grabbed their belongings and left. 

"We were racing against time," he said, adding that the family of four helped an older woman down the stairs and to safety.

Another survivor, Alfredo Lopez, similarly told The Wall Street Journal that when he awoke to the loud boom he looked outside and saw "there was nothing there." 

"You're thinking about the people that you're never going to see, neighbors of ours that are missing," he said. "It's gut-wrenching to know they're gone."

 

[Nicole44 22060]

Jake Samuelson’s grandparents, Arnie and Myriam Notkin, live in apartment 302 and the family is still waiting to hear from them. Or have they heard from them? Samuelson said his mother’s house line has been receiving calls from the Notkin’s landline phone that he said rested next to their bed.

But there is no human sound on the other end of the line, only static.

The family has received a total of 16 calls with the first one coming in the evening after the condo collapse at 9:50 p.m. Thursday.

Local 10 News tried calling the number and we got the sound of a busy signal.

The family is wondering if anyone else whose loved ones are missing have had the same experience.

We asked authorities earlier in the day about the calls and they said they are looking into it.

[mchookem 16336]

omg that's horrifying

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

This is not going to end well.  There are a lot of bodies in that hole.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

I can’t even imagine the nightmare and blessing to wake up, open the door, see that half the complex is gone, and make it down the stairs to safety. 

[phdhorn 6224]

Total of 5 (1 more).  Mayor also said they "also found some human remains" distinguished from "bodies."  You know what that means, and it's fairly nauseating, but not surprising.

[Elvis 3371]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:26 AM, PRONG HORN said:

This is USA not China.  Did aggies build it?

Woof.

 

Screaming under the rubble (in a thong) is nightmare fuel.  Godspeed Miami peeps.

[lmao 178]

....

Edited June 27, 2021 by lmao

[Buzzrock 14921]

I’m trying to come up with a word to describe it all. I think I’m gonna go with “hellish”.

[hookemATL 11739]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

I’m trying to come up with a word to describe it all. I think I’m gonna go with “hellish”.

Fuckt. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

Wife used to be a city planner in miami beach. When we heard she immediately said it was probably an 80s structure. Sure enough it was.  Apparently everything build there in the 80s used used the cheapest and shittiest techniques and material possible and are now all falling apart.  
 

she recommends if traveling stay in something pre60s or very new. 

[Hanrahan 1306]

This wife of yours, she hot?

[aggie08 21504]

45 minutes ago, Xian said:

Wife used to be a city planner in miami beach. When we heard she immediately said it was probably an 80s structure. Sure enough it was.  Apparently everything build there in the 80s used used the cheapest and shittiest techniques and material possible and are now all falling apart.  
 

she recommends if traveling stay in something pre60s or very new. 

It's almost like everyone had expensive drug habits to support at the time.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

29 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

This wife of yours, she hot?

Yep. I married up. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Wife used to be a city planner in miami beach. When we heard she immediately said it was probably an 80s structure. Sure enough it was.  Apparently everything build there in the 80s used used the cheapest and shittiest techniques and material possible and are now all falling apart.  
 
she recommends if traveling stay in something pre60s or very new. 

Soooo this just a Miami thing or all of Florida?

[Hefeweizen 5324]

Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Soooo this just a Miami thing or all of Florida?

Florida.  It was notoriously shoddy then.

[Guest Lobo]

Just now, Hefeweizen said:

Florida.  It was notoriously shoddy then.

As opposed to the statewide cultural and intellectual renaissance of the 2020's?  

to reiterate above, all my family and friends in Florida all say that same thing, go mid-century or anything built in the last 10-20 years...everything else is a gamble.  What an awful thing to happen in this day and age in this country.  So many unanswered questions for loved ones.  We pray for them today. 

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

As opposed to the statewide cultural and intellectual renaissance of the 2020's?  

to reiterate above, all my family and friends in Florida all say that same thing, go mid-century or anything built in the last 10-20 years...everything else is a gamble.  What an awful thing to happen in this day and age in this country.  So many unanswered questions for loved ones.  We pray for them today. 

As opposed to the holy shit wtf that hurricane andrew caused in 1992 that got them to take building seriously. 

[Brisketexan 105152]

As opposed to the statewide cultural and intellectual renaissance of the 2020's?  
to reiterate above, all my family and friends in Florida all say that same thing, go mid-century or anything built in the last 10-20 years...everything else is a gamble.  What an awful thing to happen in this day and age in this country.  So many unanswered questions for loved ones.  We pray for them today. 

“This day and age in this country?” You mean….the day and age where we can’t keep the lights on in two of our largest states? Where bridges literally fall down in other states?

We are committed to being a failed, third world country within the next couple of decades. And with our can-do spirit, I think we can get the job done!

“Failing infrastructure deaths” are going to be an ongoing thing. Our 700 dead in Feb, Florida’s 150+ in June, just keep a running total.

[Upgrayedd 5813]

44 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

This wife of yours, she hot?

 

14 minutes ago, Xian said:

Yep. I married up. 

Pics aren't loading

[Hefeweizen 5324]

5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

As opposed to the holy shit wtf that hurricane andrew caused in 1992 that got them to take building seriously. 

This.  It changed the building industry in Florida.

[Guest Lobo]

11 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

As opposed to the holy shit wtf that hurricane andrew caused in 1992 that got them to take building seriously. 

Yeah, but those codes and actual new builds didn't finish on a wide scale until about 20 years ago.  I mean, repair/replacements took place almost immediately afterwards.  But the real post-Andrew new developments, particularly high-rises, only got delivered about 20+ years ago.  

My uncle had a massive custom van dealership near Miami Shores in the 80's/90's. It was absolutely leveled by Andrew.  I mean, the vans picked up and tossed 500 yards away were shown as stock footage of Andrew for years.  Took him a decade to settle the insurance claim.  He had a sense of humor about it though.  By the time he got a little money back out of it all he said, "Lobo, just as well...full size vans were getting creepy anyway."  But just to rebuild the two-story showroom/offices/customization shop was a completely different code than what was required when he built it in the mid-late 80's so he didn't bother and took a job as an airline pilot (he was a vietnam pilot and then went on to achieve more fame by being the left chair that crashed that Kalitta Air cargo plane in three pieces on a Brussels runway in 2008).  /csb

But those barrier lands developments are particularly susceptible because of saltwater on both sides, not just one.  If these stories are true of whistleblower engineers and maintenance staff, I can't even fathom what's owed to the victims and family members on something like this.  

Edited June 27, 2021 by Lobo

[Rip76 4929]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

“This day and age in this country?” You mean….the day and age where we can’t keep the lights on in two of our largest states? Where bridges literally fall down in other states?

We are committed to being a failed, third world country within the next couple of decades. And with our can-do spirit, I think we can get the job done!

“Failing infrastructure deaths” are going to be an ongoing thing. Our 700 dead in Feb, Florida’s 150+ in June, just keep a running total.

And a continued growth in population will not help matters.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

20 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Soooo this just a Miami thing or all of Florida?

Miami is its own beast. So not sure about the rest of florida.  

Another thing to mention is that the mid century structures are build on the most stable land, are not as tall, and do not have the stupid submerged parking garages.   All those equate to more stability.   

 

This tall ass building was built over wetlands and had a submerged garage that pooled salt water (all water, even rain water becomes salt when it collects on a narrow barrier island)  I mean wtf were they thinking.  

[phdhorn 6224]

24 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

 

Pics aren't loading

Sez the guy with the "whatta rack" avatar.  Your videos aren't coming out either.

if you really want to get down to it, it's a dumb decision in the first place (see Xian's post immediately above this one) to build huge structures in the middle of sea air, on questionable ground, where major storms can cause catastrophe in minutes.  But we do and all in all have fared pretty well, considering.  I mean if you tell people the worst place to build anything is on a coast, they look at you like you're nuts.  But it is.  And we've done it well in general.  But sooner or later nature will nature and it'll win.

I also heard an interview today where a FL building inspector says that chlorides in the air naturally will corrode any steel.  Salt air (not in and of itself corrosive but it can allow faster production of chlorides in the air), which seeps into the microscopic pores in concrete (which even the smoothest has these pocks) and begins to eat away at it, will cause it to crack, splay, and weaken, never mind cause oxidation of steel within it.  I know this for a fact because I had a steel tank which got exposed for a time to leaking Clorox on my water filtering system years ago, and within a few months the bottom of that tank was eaten away, and I actually sat it on a rock for awhile.  Once out of the way of the chlorine, it was fine.
 

Edited June 27, 2021 by phdhorn

[Nicole44 22060]

You can see all of the 2018 report here. 
 

https://townofsurfsidefl.gov/departments-services/town-clerk/champlain-towers-public-records-documents
 

most have probably see a portion of it in various news stories. Fucked up. Just horrific situation now. The family members still holding out hope—my heart goes out to them and the rescuers. I can’t see anyone else being pulled out alive and given the fact they are not finding whole bodies (5 out of 159?) damn. I can’t imagine sitting with all the families and seeing about 100 or so rescuers climbing all over the rubble and not being allowed to help. ❤️

[Prepuce of Doom 21075]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

 

to reiterate above, all my family and friends in Florida all say that same thing, go mid-century or anything built in the last 10-20 years...everything else is a gamble.

Chinese drywall and black mold says what's up... 

If there isn't the possibility of asbestos and lead paint, you don't want it... 

[RPM 26322]

38 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

The family members still holding out hope—my heart goes out to them and the rescuers. I can’t see anyone else being pulled out alive

Those that weren't killed in the collapse or the fire were drowned by the fire response. Helluva way to go. 

[Nicole44 22060]

9 now recovered? 

 

Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava confirmed Sunday morning that the death toll had risen to nine. 

Rescue crews recovered four bodies overnight, as well as additional human remains, Cava said. That bring the total number of recovered victims from the debris to eight. 

One of the deceased victims was rescued from the rubble Thursday morning but died on the way to the hospital.

State Fire Marshal Jimmy Patronis provided an update to Local 10 News’ Annaliese Garcia Sunday morning as dozens of rescue workers continue working above and below ground.

“The fires definitely complicate things,” Patronis said. “The trenching that has been taking place has been in essence to help that.”

That trench, which was built underneath the rubble, is 125 feet long, 20 feet wide and 40 feet deep, and according to Patronis, it serves a multitude of purposes.

“It’s almost like a firebreak, a way to try to contain the fire,” he said. “But add access also for those men and women that are doing the urban search and rescue.”

Cava said it was because of this trench that workers were able to recover more of the victims.

[shadow_operative2.0 15987]

Nicole, for the 37th time, learn to paste in plain text. It’s very, very simple. 

[RPM 26322]

I see plain text with a hyperlink.