Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

I don’t have a fan club…lol.

Officials will be bringing those families inside the reunification center to the site of collapse at 2 p.m. Sunday as many have requested to see the area.

It’s a small gesture to those who are desperate for news of any kind, with 156 people still unaccounted for, according to the last update from officials.
 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/27/family-members-inside-reunification-center-growing-frustrated-over-lack-of-updates/
 

So in about an hour the families are going to the site. 🥺 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

“At around 1:46 p.m., two Miami-Dade County buses pulled up to the Grand Beach Hotel on the 9400 block of Collins Avenue to shuttle families of the dead and the missing to the pile of rubble where they hope to pray and, in many cases, mourn.

Victim advocates with the Miami-Dade County police department helped shield the families’ faces with clipboards and umbrellas as they boarded the buses, which will be making trips in shifts for families waiting at the reunification center.

Many family members were crying, and some were wearing t-shirts adorned with photos of their missing loved ones.”
 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252403423.html#storylink=bignews_latest

Things were getting pretty heated today before that. Many of the families want other rescuers (teams that have been sent from Israel and Mexico.) I can’t possibly imagine the level of frustration they are all feeling but I hate this for the rescuers. Lots of arguing with the spokesmen for the fire department etc…Hopefully, the victims being able to see the scene will allow them to start grieving. There’s very little that could have been done to save their loved ones from the moment of the collapse. It sounded like you had brief minutes (based on survivor accounts probably two minutes tops) to assess the situation and run for your life. Many people went to their balconies to see what was happening instead. 🥺❤️

Edited by Nicole44
Posted
  On 6/27/2021 at 7:54 PM, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Doc, you lead the fucking world in being an idiot on how to start a thread. You legitimately got a lecture from imma, not many can say that. 

Expand  

Did I? Shit, I don’t remember.

Regardless, I’ll take my lumps for not starting threads up to peoples standard if you just take you anti-gay bullshit to an appropriate thread.

Posted
  On 6/27/2021 at 6:10 PM, AUS-97HORN said:
not to be morbid, but usually to be on the HOA you have to be a homeowner who lives in the associated homes......

Good point. I was just thinking from the legal perspective.
Posted
  On 6/27/2021 at 6:10 PM, AUS-97HORN said:

not to be morbid, but usually to be on the HOA you have to be a homeowner who lives in the associated homes......

Expand  

Don’t squash his premise too quickly. I bet they have openings.

Posted

Lengthy article with some new (to me) details with various theories.

One victim was on the phone with her husband just before the collapse and she mentions seeing a hole in the concrete near the pool - then the line went dead. Nightmare fuel.

Possible Failure Point Emerges in Miami-Area Building Collapse
Some engineers looking at the failure of a 13-story condo tower in Florida said the collapse appeared to have begun somewhere near the bottom of the building.

The investigation into what may be the deadliest accidental building collapse in American history has just begun, but experts who have examined video footage of the disaster outside Miami are focusing on a spot in the lowest part of the condominium complex — possibly in or below the underground parking garage — where an initial failure could have set off a structural avalanche.

Called “progressive collapse,” the gradual spread of failures could have occurred for a variety of reasons, including design flaws or the less robust construction allowed under the building codes of four decades ago, when the complex was built. But that progression could not have occurred without some critical first failure, and close inspections of a grainy surveillance video that emerged in the initial hours after the disaster have given the first hints of where that might have been.

“It does appear to start either at or very near the bottom of the structure,” said Donald O. Dusenberry, a consulting engineer who has investigated many structural collapses. “It’s not like there’s a failure high and it pancaked down.”

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 11:03 AM, bolverk said:

Lengthy article with some new (to me) details with various theories.

One victim was on the phone with her husband just before the collapse and she mentions seeing a hole in the concrete near the pool - then the line went dead. Nightmare fuel.

Possible Failure Point Emerges in Miami-Area Building Collapse
Some engineers looking at the failure of a 13-story condo tower in Florida said the collapse appeared to have begun somewhere near the bottom of the building.

The investigation into what may be the deadliest accidental building collapse in American history has just begun, but experts who have examined video footage of the disaster outside Miami are focusing on a spot in the lowest part of the condominium complex — possibly in or below the underground parking garage — where an initial failure could have set off a structural avalanche.

Called “progressive collapse,” the gradual spread of failures could have occurred for a variety of reasons, including design flaws or the less robust construction allowed under the building codes of four decades ago, when the complex was built. But that progression could not have occurred without some critical first failure, and close inspections of a grainy surveillance video that emerged in the initial hours after the disaster have given the first hints of where that might have been.

“It does appear to start either at or very near the bottom of the structure,” said Donald O. Dusenberry, a consulting engineer who has investigated many structural collapses. “It’s not like there’s a failure high and it pancaked down.”

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Expand  

its possible it was a sinkhole that started near the pool but it was obvious from the video it wasn't from the roof or high up.  

Posted

OK.  Whats going on in these pictures?:

Before.  Look at the parking garage area in the left foreground. The columns appear to be painted or bare concrete washed by the sun.

spacer.png

Miami-building-collapse.jpg

 

Now look at the same area after the collapse and some demo work:

spacer.png

 

From the preceding two pictures, it appears that there was a parking deck above the white portion of the columns both at the intact building and at the pool deck.  In the first picture you can even see where a car fell down to the below deck farther back in the intact building structure.  It looks like the  parking deck just fell straight down as did the pool deck.  So straight down that cars and pool furniture were not mangled.

The collapse video does not show this area clearly, but just behind it is where the first section of main building started to collapse.  The pool deck area is where there were problems from the engineering report.  The collapse of the second main structure might have caused this area to pancake when its debris hit the parking and pool decks as well.  Looks like the tenants in the standing structure were dammed lucky that the collapse stopped at just a portion of the upper deck parking/pool deck area. 

Now look at the whole pool deck area:

spacer.png

It seems odd that where the second collapse came down on the pool deck, the deck collapse stops at the edge of the debris field, yet where the building did not come down by the top (passed the still standing umbrellas), the pool deck and parking structure nevertheless collapsed without direct hit.

Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 5:25 PM, Jiggy-Z said:

yet where the building did not come down by the top (passed the still standing umbrellas), the pool deck and parking structure nevertheless collapsed without direct hit.

Expand  

If it was connected to the adjoining structure via rebar (and it likely was), then the collapse of the adjoining part may well have just pulled that part of the deck free, and down, along with it.

It looks like MAYBE the collapse started where that part of the building met up with the pool deck.  In other words, the failure point was the juncture of the pool deck and the building support structure.  And once that goes, then it's a cascade failure, pulling down both the remainder of that structure and the portion of the pool deck that was tied in by rebar.

Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 5:39 PM, Brisketexan said:

If it was connected to the adjoining structure via rebar (and it likely was), then the collapse of the adjoining part may well have just pulled that part of the deck free, and down, along with it.

It looks like MAYBE the collapse started where that part of the building met up with the pool deck.  In other words, the failure point was the juncture of the pool deck and the building support structure.  And once that goes, then it's a cascade failure, pulling down both the remainder of that structure and the portion of the pool deck that was tied in by rebar.

Expand  

You could not pay me to work on that site.  the whole thing still looks sketchy as shit.

Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 5:43 PM, Jiggy-Z said:

You could not pay me to work on that site.  the whole thing still looks sketchy as shit.

Expand  

Verdad.   But I'm sure that the fire dept etc. had structural engineers look as closely as possible at the remaining structure....all that said, it's a dynamic and unpredictable environment, so....fuck that.

Posted

Shower thoughts: It'd be cool if there was an NTSB type team like they have with plane crashes. Piece by piece put the building back together to determine root cause. People could even move back in after the NTSB team is done.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 7:08 PM, crash_davis said:

Shower thoughts: It'd be cool if there was an NTSB type team like they have with plane crashes. Piece by piece put the building back together to determine root cause. People could even move back in after the NTSB team is done.

Expand  

Actually, there is, more or less, and they're down there:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/560311-federal-government-sending-scientists-to-investigate-miami-area%3famp

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 7:11 PM, phdhorn said:
Expand  

Great.  Now there's going to end up being a crappy TV series about a special office of the NIST, set in Miami.

Fortunately, it's already been cast.....

"They wanted us to believe that the collapse was caused by random corrosion, but.....we're not falling for that........YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAH!"

giphy.gif

Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 7:11 PM, phdhorn said:
Expand  

Will be interesting to see how they can determine anything in all that rubble. "hey look, a big broken piece of concrete. here's another. omg, here's another."

I guess they can rule out if a blast or some sort of incendiary device was the catalyst. Short of that, it'll all look like broken concrete. But what do I know.

Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 7:19 PM, crash_davis said:

Will be interesting to see how they can determine anything in all that rubble. "hey look, a big broken piece of concrete. here's another. omg, here's another."

I guess they can rule out if a blast or some sort of incendiary device was the catalyst. Short of that, it'll all look like broken concrete. But what do I know.

Expand  

I imagine they can look at how the concrete broke (I suspect that pieces that broke/flaked off before the collapse look different than those that shattered/split of as a result of the collapse?)  And, they'll look at corrosion in the rebar/reinforcement.  I wouldn't be surprised if that's where the "smoking gun" is.

Posted (edited)
  On 6/28/2021 at 7:19 PM, crash_davis said:

Will be interesting to see how they can determine anything in all that rubble. "hey look, a big broken piece of concrete. here's another. omg, here's another."

I guess they can rule out if a blast or some sort of incendiary device was the catalyst. Short of that, it'll all look like broken concrete. But what do I know.

Expand  

The science of building forensics seems to have come a long way especially since 9/11. This agency was formed from that event. I've been reading various things from structural engineers and they can do an amazing job of pretty much pinpointing most building failures, even this one eventually.

I don't believe this agency has authority over this particular investigation, but will work with the local and State inspectors to take all the findings and use them to improve building construction nationally. Which is essentially with the NTSB does for the airline industry.

Edited by phdhorn
  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

Allyn Kilsheimer has been hired to consult on the Champlain Tower South partial building collapse. He's worked at major disaster sites, including the Pentagon after the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the Miami Dade College garage collapse. After an initial walk-through of the Champlain East and North towers, Kilsheimer says he saw no visible evidence of any major structural concern, according to a press release.

Although the focus right now remains on rescue and recovery efforts, many are asking how something like this could happen. One of those people is John Pepper, president of PE Group Consulting Engineers. Pepper has more than 50 years of experience and says he's never seen anything like what happened in Surfside, despite working several structural collapse investigations throughout his career.

"This is something that is very major. We're in uncharted territory. This hasn't happened before," said Pepper. 

He gave some insight as to what investigators and engineers will be searching for to figure out why the 12-story condominium building came down. "In my experience, it's a rule that you don't see major damage without minor damage, so it was likely multiple factors," explained Pepper. He says engineers will be examining the way the pile of rubble sits now and its position in regards to how the building stood before. "The way the columns fell, the ones that aren't completely crushed will fall left or right, they'll be pushed or pulled in certain ways," he said.

Forensic engineers will also look at the foundation, concrete, evidence of leaks, groundwater and focus on corrosion from the salty ocean air. "They'll be looking for things that don't look right, columns that are broken, how they're broken and corrosion on the columns which is quite likely a factor," Pepper said.
https://www.wtsp.com/amp/article/entertainment/television/brightside/how-engineers-will-find-out-why-the-surfside-building-collapsed/67-d1b47deb-b76d-48d2-aa0e-dc88d442add4?__twitter_impression=true

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted
  On 6/28/2021 at 7:51 PM, Nicole44 said:

Allyn Kilsheimer has been hired to consult on the Champlain Tower South partial building collapse. He's worked at major disaster sites, including the Pentagon after the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the Miami Dade College garage collapse. After an initial walk-through of the Champlain East and North towers, Kilsheimer says he saw no visible evidence of any major structural concern, according to a press release.

Although the focus right now remains on rescue and recovery efforts, many are asking how something like this could happen. One of those people is John Pepper, president of PE Group Consulting Engineers. Pepper has more than 50 years of experience and says he's never seen anything like what happened in Surfside, despite working several structural collapse investigations throughout his career.

"This is something that is very major. We're in uncharted territory. This hasn't happened before," said Pepper. 

He gave some insight as to what investigators and engineers will be searching for to figure out why the 12-story condominium building came down. "In my experience, it's a rule that you don't see major damage without minor damage, so it was likely multiple factors," explained Pepper. He says engineers will be examining the way the pile of rubble sits now and its position in regards to how the building stood before. "The way the columns fell, the ones that aren't completely crushed will fall left or right, they'll be pushed or pulled in certain ways," he said.

Forensic engineers will also look at the foundation, concrete, evidence of leaks, groundwater and focus on corrosion from the salty ocean air. "They'll be looking for things that don't look right, columns that are broken, how they're broken and corrosion on the columns which is quite likely a factor," Pepper said.
https://www.wtsp.com/amp/article/entertainment/television/brightside/how-engineers-will-find-out-why-the-surfside-building-collapsed/67-d1b47deb-b76d-48d2-aa0e-dc88d442add4?__twitter_impression=true

Expand  

Let me be the first to thank you for posting this in plain text.  /spystud

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Haha 1

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...