Mass casualty building collapse in Miami

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

OK.  Let's fill in some blanks.

So in 2018 there was an engineering report that was commissioned by the board/HOA.

Report comes out with findings and recommendations in 2019?

Then, possible missing step I have not heard about...Report is received by a different structural engineer for actual plans and specifications based on report

Plans and specifications issued as construction documents-when______________.

Construction documents sent out for bids and proposals-when_______________.

Contractor selected-when______________________

Contractor contracted -when__________________

Contractor submittal documents turned in and approved-when______________

Construction-when________________

[AUS-97HORN 11809]

15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Now that doesn't mean some owners were aware of the severity or perhaps they didn't bother to pay attention. 

my guess is that last part.  

I witnessed it first hand during the 03-08 mortgage crises.

ive had numerous interactions with people regarding lifestyle-critical conversations,  even pre-smartphone, these folks would just daydream while you went over the details on them.   The sheer number of times they would try and cherry pick what they wanted at the last minute because they "didnt understand" was a pretty ridiculous percentage of the time, considering that getting to an actual closing meant we had had a minimum of 10 calls, at least 2 face to face meetings, and gone over the difference between adjustable rate and fixed (ad nauseum). 

which is why I scoff at the media portraying all mortgage people prior to 2004 being slimeballs and the poor homeowners had no fucking idea what they were signing....   I fully agree that there were 2-3% of the mortgage folks who were probably given erroneous information.   But the other 97% chose to only hear what they wanted regarding what they were signing.

These same homeowners would start off demanding a fixed rate loan, get a quote for that loan and est monthly payment... go home.... then call   Mikey the OTHER Mortgage guy, tell Mikey that AUS-97 quoted them a $1457.60 Monthly payment  and can he beat that price?     Mikey quotes an adjustable rate note (because they NEVER TOLD HIM IT HAD TO BE FIXED)... and hes quoting it at $1,087.40 monthly.   They then accuse you of trying to fuck them over... and you had a 25% chance to earn back their business by presenting an ajustable rate to them and explain that its adjustable, thats what Mikey quoted you  (insert back and forth of they guarantee its fixed, you tell them to call Mikey is it adjustable)....

and it was 25% you won because thats the percentage of people who will admit they were wrong and accept your explanation.   The other 75% just thought I fucked them, went with Mikey, and since they asked ME for a fixed rate, they assumed thats what Mikey was giving them... until closing... and even then when they would inital on  the "this is an adjustable rate mortgage whose monthly amount due will change in 5 years" line... they still think they are fixed... then 5 years later, poof adjustable rate kicks in and they scream they were mislead.....  bullshit. 

It got so bad that we had customers hand write a letter at closing where they agreed that they understood they were getting an adjustable rate loan, not a fixed loan and the loan price could change in 2,3,5,7,10 years depending on the type they got.    I  STILL had customers formally complain that we sold them a 2 year adjustable rate loan when they were guaranteed a fixed rate.... and we presented their handwritten note which was signed, dated, notarized (with the stamp) they said they were FORCED to sign that letter and note or they wouldnt "get" the loan......   uh.... yeah thats kinda how a refi works people.

[atomheartbevo 89735]

The guy who was banging his girlfriend instead of being back home in his collapsed condo.  You're going to love what she wore for the interview.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/us/erick-de-moura-champlain-towers-resident/index.html

Quote

De Moura and his girlfriend, Fernanda Figueiredo, say they believe he is alive because he was not in his unit in the building that collapsed early June 24 in Surfside, Florida.

"I was right at her door, about to leave. And for some reason, she just asked me to stay" in her home nearby, de Moura told CNN's John Berman in Surfside on Tuesday morning.

Quote

De Moura was at Figueiredo's home on the night of June 23 to watch a Copa America soccer match between his native Brazil and Colombia on TV with friends.

After the game, he got up to leave. But Figueiredo -- in a situation unusual for a Wednesday night -- did not have one of her children at home. He had some appointments to attend to in the morning, but she saw an opportunity for them to spend some time together, they said.

 

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The guy who was banging his girlfriend instead of being back home in his collapsed condo.  You're going to love what she wore for the interview.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/us/erick-de-moura-champlain-towers-resident/index.html

 

 

On 6/24/2021 at 9:40 AM, conVINCEd said:

The guy who decided to stay at his gfs place last night is buying lottery tickets right now.

 

[Hefeweizen 5328]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The guy who was banging his girlfriend instead of being back home in his collapsed condo.  You're going to love what she wore for the interview.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/us/erick-de-moura-champlain-towers-resident/index.html

 

Would bang the foundation out from under her.

 

I am tending away from a sinkhole given the reports of saltwater intrusion into the structure and betting on corrosion to reinforcing steel and concrete deterioration as the root causes.  And yeah it can take a long time for shrinkage cracking that exposes reinforcement to finally cause the steel to disappear, but tension failure can be sudden after that.

 

I know one thing for sure, if you have some spare cash and are willing to speculate I think there will be fine real estate deals to be had in Florida soon.

[smuggs 9353]

42 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The guy who was banging his girlfriend instead of being back home in his collapsed condo.  You're going to love what she wore for the interview.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/us/erick-de-moura-champlain-towers-resident/index.html

 

 

 

 

[Deej 76846]

8 minutes ago, smuggs said:

 

 

[Brisketexan 105161]

59 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

but she saw an opportunity for them to spend some time together,

Don't know why people feel the need to be subtle/use euphemisms.  The kids weren't home.  This was a good chance for them to bang and make all the noise they wanted.

Good for them.

ESPECIALLY good for him.

[davidg 4038]

2 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

The fucking tides cause routine flooding there. On days with significant rainfall (hint: this happens often...) entire portions of the beach and the mainland flood. 

Here is an unremarkable news clip that shows the baseline for "normal" in South Florida (hint: nothing - flooding or otherwise - is normal there). 

 

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33876]

6 hours ago, Ellellelle said:

I am really curious about the likelihood this happens to similar buildings in the area. Is that something people need to be concerned about?

you're goddamn right other condos have to be concerned - especially ones that have had similar issues. looks like there are two other buildings just a block away that are of similar construction. I would be retaining a lawyer if I lived there.

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The quote about the parking garage routinely having a 1-2 foot of water is nuts. Or the pumps having to frequently replaced because they were constantly pumping out water. That can't be normal, right?

not in the least. I mean, some flooding from ground or tide water is normal, but not 1-2 feet on a regular basis.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Longhorn_Fan68

[ROFL BOX 6649]

3 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

The fucking tides cause routine flooding there. On days with significant rainfall (hint: this happens often...) entire portions of the beach and the mainland flood. 

Here is an unremarkable news clip that shows the baseline for "normal" in South Florida (hint: nothing - flooding or otherwise - is normal there). 

 

Having lived in Fort Lauderdale & other areas of Broward County for 25+ years, I recall times around 1980 where friends paddled a canoe off a street & right into an adjacent canal.

 

This exact location, to be specific:

 

[ROFL BOX 6649]

Curious... of all responding here, who has any engineering (civil, structural) training or experience?

My brother is in the thick of it down there (field C.E.) & we had a decent conversation 4 days ago.

A lot that has been discussed in this thread came up, esp. WRT condo boards, associations, etc

[lemonlime 5503]

6 hours ago, C-Man said:

You’re right. But I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a million times you get what you pay for in the personal insurance world. These don’t look like condos that would be on Chubb/AIG/PURE/Cincinnati’s radar, though. Those are the carriers that *might* cover the entirety of an assessment like this. (There might be language baked in that excludes the assessment when it comes for the purpose of fixing something like this. Interesting question I might ask later.)

Would a condo that close to the beach carry flood insurance?  And would that cover structural repairs due to the water damage in the garage?

[Trey3216 15349]

15 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Would a condo that close to the beach carry flood insurance?  And would that cover structural repairs due to the water damage in the garage?

Not un-repaired damage that is deterioration related from years of neglect/non-investment.   

[Trey3216 15349]

2 hours ago, smuggs said:

 

 

 

Got crazy eyes and size 12 lookin feet.   She def crazy.  

[Brisketexan 105161]

3 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Got crazy eyes and size 12 lookin feet.   She def crazy.  

Dude.  Florida latina.  Did you even need a photo to reach your conclusion?

[jimmyjazz 45991]

48 minutes ago, ROFL BOX said:

Curious... of all responding here, who has any engineering (civil, structural) training or experience?

Mechanical engineer with structural design experience on repurposed or purpose-built shipping containers, but all went through civil PE stamped approval.  No liability on my part.

[Trey3216 15349]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  Florida latina.  Did you even need a photo to reach your conclusion?

Not.  At.  All.   But a woman with eyes like that, trying to show off her face stomp size 12’s is something to behold.   I’d have a 4 night stand with her.  

[bolverk 29694]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

[Brisketexan 105161]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

[bolverk 29694]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

All right, all right. I get it.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

Damn. Posting from the car at a light….got in a loop on 5G. What a mess.

[Blotto 23560]

10 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It's a condo building, built 40 years ago.  The "building owners" are the residents and the HOA (made up of the residents).  So....there's probably not even a good defendant to sue in this case.  Someone may try to sue the engineers who gave the report in 2018, arguing that it should have said "danger, Will Robinson!  Building is not safe to occupy!"

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/25/first-lawsuit-filed-following-partial-building-collapse-in-surfside/

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/28/lawsuit-filed-against-surfside-condo-association-by-resident-who-survived-collapse/

come on man.....

good defendant, lulz.

Just the lawsuits between condo members  suing to reclaim legal fees arising from frivolous lawsuits will probably send 10 lawyers kids to college.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Blotto

[Updawg 2276]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Charleston is the city I’m worried about. Very cool city but huge flood issues. Lot of of it is really old so hopefully it keeps standing up

[Updawg 2276]

Given the increasing intensity and frequency of high tides / king tides in South Florida which is likely related to rising sea levels (and potentially played a role in this disaster), is this collapsed building going to be eventually remembered as the canary in the coal mine on the perils of intense coastal development in the coming decades? /no cr

Charleston is the city I’m worried about. Very cool city but huge flood issues. Lot of of it is really old so hopefully it keeps standing up

[conVINCEd 21469]

35 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Damn. Posting from the car at a light….got in a loop on 5G. What a mess.

Once you’ve fucked a whale your quadruple posting problems will magically disappear.

[Brisketexan 105161]

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/25/first-lawsuit-filed-following-partial-building-collapse-in-surfside/
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/28/lawsuit-filed-against-surfside-condo-association-by-resident-who-survived-collapse/
come on man.....
good defendant, lulz.
Just the lawsuits between condo members  suing to reclaim legal fees arising from frivelous lawsuits will probably send 10 lawyers kids to college.
 
 

Cool….where will the money come from? They can file a jillion lawsuits, and seek a brazillion in damages….but to get paid, the money has to come from somewhere.

Having defendants means jack shit. Having solvent, deep-pocket defendants means everything. Sal and Moira Morgenstern of unit 10C who were on the HOA for a term last year aren’t gonna be ideal defendants.

Without big insurance policies (which likely didn’t exist and/or cover this sort of event) or a big deep pocket corporate defendant, the odds aren’t great that there’s a big pot of gold at the end of the lawsuit rainbow.

Shit, I’ve seen it in defective condo cases with many millions of dollars at stake just for repairs. Developer was a corporate shell that’s now insolvent, relevant contractors are insolvent and were underinsured….didn’t matter how good a case the plaintiffs had, there was nobody around who could pay the judgment.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Damned Dp. Gonna reboot tapa.

[Dahobbs 17625]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool….where will the money come from? They can file a jillion lawsuits, and seek a brazillion in damages….but to get paid, the money has to come from somewhere.

Having defendants means jack shit. Having solvent, deep-pocket defendants means everything. Sal and Moira Morgenstern of unit 10C who were on the HOA for a term last year aren’t gonna be ideal defendants.

Without big insurance policies (which likely didn’t exist and/or cover this sort of event) or a big deep pocket corporate defendant, the odds aren’t great that there’s a big pot of gold at the end of the lawsuit rainbow.

Shit, I’ve seen it in defective condo cases with many millions of dollars at stake just for repairs. Developer was a corporate shell that’s now insolvent, relevant contractors are insolvent and were underinsured….didn’t matter how good a case the plaintiffs had, there was nobody around who could pay the judgment.

I'll also point out that the lawsuits aren't frivolous. They have a good deal of merit to them. There just isn't a pocket with money to pay.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

Apparently you can't remember you already posted this 3x so I guess not.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Apparently you can't remember you already posted this 3x so I guess not.

Yeah….tapa is borked. Hit reply once…..didn’t touch it again….and it posted 3 times. We’ll see how many times THIS posts.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Apparently you can't remember you already posted this 3x so I guess not.

Yeah….tapa is borked. Hit reply once…..didn’t touch it again….and it posted 3 times. We’ll see how many times THIS posts.

[freyguy 4279]

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah….tapa is borked. Hit reply once…..didn’t touch it again….and it posted 3 times. We’ll see how many times THIS posts.

Had the same thing happen in another thread, and I'm not on tapa.  somethings........ amiss...

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah….tapa is borked. Hit reply once…..didn’t touch it again….and it posted 3 times. We’ll see how many times THIS posts.

Had the same thing happen in another thread, and I'm not on tapa, something's........ amiss...

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

See.....

[Trey3216 15349]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Damn. Posting from the car at a light….got in a loop on 5G. What a mess.

But how does your shoulder feel 

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

8 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

The fucking tides cause routine flooding there. On days with significant rainfall (hint: this happens often...) entire portions of the beach and the mainland flood. 

Here is an unremarkable news clip that shows the baseline for "normal" in South Florida (hint: nothing - flooding or otherwise - is normal there). 

 

Gaby

[lmao 178]

5 hours ago, Deej said:

 

Lol literally thought of this when I saw that pic

[AUS-97HORN 11809]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh. you think we can learn. How adorable.

 

 

Brisket going straight savage and putting the shit on blast 5 times.

 

[lmao 178]

11 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I would move.

Who is going to buy your place?

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 minute ago, lmao said:

Who is going to buy your place?

In this scenario I’m renting.

[atomheartbevo 89735]

5 hours ago, ROFL BOX said:

Curious... of all responding here, who has any engineering (civil, structural) training or experience?

I probably have 25-30 hours of watching shows on Discovery Channel about how large buildings were built, and another 15-20 hours on YouTube on how Roman structures were built.

[Hate 20122]

I used to watch that show "Seconds from Disaster" when it was on NatGeo.  It was a great show. 

[atomheartbevo 89735]

Speaking of Chinese construction earlier

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/j-hotel-shanghai-tower-china-intl-hnk/index.html

Quote

he J Hotel Shanghai Tower, which opened on June 19, isn't just another high-end property. 

It claims to be the highest hotel in the world. The J Hotel occupies the top floors of the Shanghai Tower -- which at 632 meters (about 2,000 feet) is the tallest building in all of China.

\

[bernorange 8362]

12 hours ago, South Austin said:

... I think it's safe to say that the market for South Florida condominium units is taking a bit of a dip.

Cratering even.

12 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The quote about the parking garage routinely having a 1-2 foot of water is nuts. Or the pumps having to frequently replaced because they were constantly pumping out water. That can't be normal, right?

It's Florida.  They are used to living in a swamp.