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The Sheldon Whitehouse Beach Club Controversy

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bolverk

bolverk 29360

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Never heard of a beach club? Season 3 of Saved by the Bell with Leah Remini at the Malibu Sands Beach Club!

I was out of high school by the time that show came along. In fact, I've never watched a single episode of it.

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11796

Posted
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I was inadvertently a member of a whites only club once.  Where I grew up, the Lions Club owned and operated a swimming pool/park, where only paying members and their invited guests were allowed.  Circa 1976 or so, I actually heard this conversation among other 10 year olds while in the pool.  “How come they don’t allow black people in here?”   “Because you wouldn’t want all that black washing off in this nice clean water, would you?”

Fortunately and partly thanks to my dad, the Lions Club started accepting black men as members in the late 80s, but all those other 10 year olds I heard, they still think the same.  

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aggie08

aggie08 21380

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

So if this beach club would take “a token” black person or two as members then this would be OK with everyone?  Then it would basically be just like another exclusive club he is a member of…. the United States Senate.

Exactly. I think the arrogance and stupidity to not just allow in one token minority member and avoid this kind of headline is almost as maddening as the inherit racism.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)

If that one liberal lady from a few weeks ago had to issue a sad apology for being a kid and winning some debutante ball that had roots (though no is longer associated and now has actual minority participants) in the old south plantation days, then I think it's fair game to make this guy really uncomfortable and make him issue a breathless apology on twitter, resign his membership, and spend a week or two in the proverbial barrel before society moves on to the next minor cultural outrage.

This does remind me that MLB commish Rob Manfred moved the All-Star game for political/racially-sensitive issues, but remains a committed member to Augusta National, another historically no-blacks allowed private club. Lots of people-- a few even on here-- were defending him saying he shouldn't have to feel compelled to resign. Maybe that position should be revisited.

More broadly, maybe the idea of exclusivity-- based on race, economics, or cultural capital-- should be examined more closely. It seems like a moving target-- what was acceptable for inclusiveness in 1800 is obviously not anymore. What will be acceptable in 2120 may be quite different than how we do it now.

For example, maybe the 90% of the American working class in the future after we reach as close as we can to equality utopia, complete with the standard issue government gray jumpsuit all comrades wear, will be aghast to hear about networks like the Soho House and it will be whispered about your family "I can't believe your great great granddad was a hetero artist who sold an NFT to cybercriminals once and peddled in exclusivity by virtue of his creative class capital. You descend from monsters."

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20635

Posted
Posted

Wonder how many Congresspeople were part of an "all white" fraternity or sorority in college. Funny that the right is all hot and bothered by this after 4 years of Trump basically living a country club life and Mar-a-Lago becoming a household name. 

I'm confused. Do Republicans want to ignore systemic racism or just use it as a whataboutism weapon? Make up your mind. 

 

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aggie08

aggie08 21380

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

If that one liberal lady from a few weeks ago had to issue a sad apology for being a kid and winning some debutante ball that had roots (though no is longer associated and now has actual minority participants) in the old south plantation days, then I think it's fair game to make this guy really uncomfortable and make him issue a breathless apology on twitter, resign his membership, and spend a week or two in the proverbial barrel before society moves on to the next minor cultural outrage.

This does remind me that MLB commish Rob Manfred moved the All-Star game for political/racially-sensitive issues, but remains a committed member to Augusta National, another historically no-blacks allowed private club. Lots of people-- a few even on here-- were defending him saying he shouldn't have to feel compelled to resign. Maybe that position should be revisited.

More broadly, maybe the idea of exclusivity-- based on race, economics, or cultural capital-- should be examined more closely. It seems like a moving target-- what was acceptable for inclusiveness in 1800 is obviously not anymore. What will be acceptable in 2120 may be quite different than how we do it now.

For example, maybe the 90% of the American working class in the future after we reach as close as we can to equality utopia, complete with the standard issue government gray jumpsuit all comrades wear, will be aghast to hear about networks like the Soho House and it will be whispered about your family "I can't believe your great great granddad was a hetero artist who sold an NFT to cybercriminals once and peddled in exclusivity by virtue of his creative class capital. You descend from monsters."

Do us all a favor and occasionally proofread your posts and ask yourself, "Is this a mostly nonsensical word salad that makes me sound like an idiot?" Then, reconsider pressing Submit.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Do us all a favor and occasionally proofread your posts and ask yourself, "Is this a mostly nonsensical word salad that makes me sound like an idiot?" Then, reconsider pressing Submit.

By this response I think I'm hearing you say, "I want to disagree but can't really figure out how to". 

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Wonder how many Congresspeople were part of an "all white" fraternity or sorority in college. Funny that the right is all hot and bothered by this after 4 years of Trump basically living a country club life and Mar-a-Lago becoming a household name. 

I'm confused. Do Republicans want to ignore systemic racism or just use it as a whataboutism weapon? Make up your mind. 

 

Is it Republicans whataboutism? From what I read this was a local reporter/local journalism doing some local work (as journalism generally works) and I can't tell if there is really a political slant-- it was Rhode Island journalism and NYT pursuing this story and pulling at the thread:

Quote

 

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., who has been one of the most outspoken senators on the issue of systemic racism, was questioned by a local news reporter over the weekend about his family’s longtime membership in a private beach club described as “all white.”

In Pawtucket, R.I., Friday, Whitehouse was approached by a reporter from GoLocalProv.com who asked if Bailey’s Beach Club in Newport had admitted any minority members since the publication first asked the senator about it in 2017.

“I think the people who are running the place are still working on that,” Whitehouse replied. “And I’m sorry it hasn’t happened yet.”

Pressed about the apparent hypocrisy of his vocal condemnation of systemic racism while maintaining a decades-long membership in the exclusive club, Whitehouse said, “It’s a long tradition in Rhode Island, and there are many of them, and I think we just need to work our way through the issues.”

 

and

Quote

 

After weeks of refusing to answer GoLocal’s questions about his membership in Bailey’s — Nagle caught up with Whitehouse attending an event in Newport. 

“I think it would be nice if they (Bailey’s Beach Club) changed a little bit, but it's not my position,” Whitehouse told Nagle.

When asked if he would pressure the club to push for diversity at the all-white club], Whitehouse said, “I will take that up privately.” He then told Nagle he had no further comment and walked away.

 

I'm not sure "whataboutism" can be blamed here unless you are talking about the penchant of conservatives to laugh and make light when dumb things or unforced errors happen to political opponents (which is universal and both sides of politics).

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31184

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Exactly. I think the arrogance and stupidity to not just allow in one token minority member and avoid this kind of headline is almost as maddening as the inherit racism.

Well, there's a certain irony in the fact that many or even most black people of the "wealth and standing" to join such clubs would probably be very reluctant to do so.

They don't want to be tokens.  They don't want to be such an obvious minority.  They worry about culture fit even though they think they're well "assimilated."

So it becomes self-perpetuating.

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Captainant

Captainant 27311

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, there's a certain irony in the fact that many or even most black people of the "wealth and standing" to join such clubs would probably be very reluctant to do so.

They don't want to be tokens.  They don't want to be such an obvious minority.  They worry about culture fit even though they think they're well "assimilated."

So it becomes self-perpetuating.

Well yeah, but the conservatives in the CRT thread said the diversity, equality and inclusion initiatives are just codewords for MARXIST COMMUNIST PLOTS!

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Who cares?  This is boring.  Who cares what old, crusty, rich elitist white folks do at some fucking dopey ass beach club?  Does anyone really want to hangout with these people anyway?  I guarantee this guy has never had fun a day in his life.

I think the argument is that we should all care as it relates to diversity, equality and inclusion. Representation matters. Systematic racism is being perpetuated by not caring. Black Americans need allies; people who will care about this and not just ignore it or not care. Anti-racism is caring about this, even if you don't want to hang out with these people.

Do you see?

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lmao

lmao 178

Posted
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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Wonder how many Congresspeople were part of an "all white" fraternity or sorority in college. Funny that the right is all hot and bothered by this after 4 years of Trump basically living a country club life and Mar-a-Lago becoming a household name. 

I'm confused. Do Republicans want to ignore systemic racism or just use it as a whataboutism weapon? Make up your mind. 

 

They don't care which is why addressed it in the OP. Tbf from what I know Mar-a-Lago takes the anyone who can cough up the dues regardless of ethnicity. These clubs only take in a certain stratosphere of connected white people.

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah.

They probably wouldn'ta let me in, either.

The list of "clubs" that wouldn't admit me is rather long and distinguished.

I'm still surprised when I am greeted warmly and know people -- as opposed to being accosted by security and tossed out -- at places as mundane as the Austin Club or the Old Ebbitt Grill.  I try to avoid letting them know about my lineage.

 

Capture+_2021-06-25-09-45-26-1.png

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well yeah, but the conservatives in the CRT thread said the diversity, equality and inclusion initiatives are just codewords for MARXIST COMMUNIST PLOTS!

I'm a conservative and I think that is really stupid reasoning. I'm a conservative and I think DEI is a good thing, generally speaking. I think it's in the application and policy that reasonable disagreement can be had.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, lmao said:

They don't care which is why addressed it in the OP. Tbf from what I know Mar-a-Lago takes the anyone who can cough up the dues regardless of ethnicity. These clubs only take in a certain stratosphere of connected white people.

Again, why are people defaulting to "This is bad but WORSE is this is a hypocritical witch hunt by Republicans and BUT TRUMP!".

You people realize this thread was pulled at and unraveled by the Rhode Island equivalent of Austinlocal.com or culturemap.com or KXAN? This wasn't some astroturfed or GQP conspiracy theory or red meat for the base cooked up in a think tank lab to rile up the base.

If your problem is that political opponents are making fun of it and laughing at it and enjoying the unforced error and 15 minutes of political micro-controversy, then I question if your ability to consume politics and political news is appropriate for your state of mind or mental health state.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31184

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm a conservative and I think that is really stupid reasoning. I'm a conservative and I think DEI is a good thing, generally speaking. I think it's in the application and policy that reasonable disagreement can be had.

And herein lies the problem.  What passes for conservatives these days aren't willing to have an honest or reasonable discussion about anything.

They just label and mischaracterize anything and use it to score internet points, or the equivalent, with their increasingly stupid and fragile constituency.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
Just now, TwiceHorn said:

And herein lies the problem.  What passes for conservatives these days aren't willing to have an honest or reasonable discussion about anything.

They just label and mischaracterize anything and use it to score internet points, or the equivalent, with their increasingly stupid and fragile constituency.

Agreed. It's the culture of politics in 2021. I mean look at this thread and some of the responses here. Everything has to have a spin because politics is cut-throat these days.

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Captainant

Captainant 27311

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm a conservative and I think that is really stupid reasoning. I'm a conservative and I think DEI is a good thing, generally speaking. I think it's in the application and policy that reasonable disagreement can be had.

hey isn't this the guy you voted for?

 

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C-Man

C-Man 26992

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

If that one liberal lady from a few weeks ago had to issue a sad apology for being a kid and winning some debutante ball that had roots (though no is longer associated and now has actual minority participants) in the old south plantation days, then I think it's fair game to make this guy really uncomfortable and make him issue a breathless apology on twitter, resign his membership, and spend a week or two in the proverbial barrel before society moves on to the next minor cultural outrage.

This does remind me that MLB commish Rob Manfred moved the All-Star game for political/racially-sensitive issues, but remains a committed member to Augusta National, another historically no-blacks allowed private club. Lots of people-- a few even on here-- were defending him saying he shouldn't have to feel compelled to resign. Maybe that position should be revisited.

More broadly, maybe the idea of exclusivity-- based on race, economics, or cultural capital-- should be examined more closely. It seems like a moving target-- what was acceptable for inclusiveness in 1800 is obviously not anymore. What will be acceptable in 2120 may be quite different than how we do it now.

For example, maybe the 90% of the American working class in the future after we reach as close as we can to equality utopia, complete with the standard issue government gray jumpsuit all comrades wear, will be aghast to hear about networks like the Soho House and it will be whispered about your family "I can't believe your great great granddad was a hetero artist who sold an NFT to cybercriminals once and peddled in exclusivity by virtue of his creative class capital. You descend from monsters."

Augusta National has black (and women) members.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Augusta National has black (and women) members.

Agreed. But it's the history and implicit racism vis-a-vis "exclusivity" that I don't think you are considering (and which is a similar theme to these beach clubs). Here is a referesher:

Quote

 

But Augusta National has always existed in a bubble, a byproduct of a famously private club consolidating its influence and then enforcing it over the decades while maintaining practices that, throughout most of its storied history, were exclusionary and racist.

The Masters, first played in 1934, didn’t extend an invitation to a Black competitor until 1975. The club didn’t admit its first Black member until 1990 and didn’t offer membership to women until 2012.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/sports/golf/lee-elder-masters-augusta-national.html

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

hey isn't this the guy you voted for?

 

You vote for composites of people. I don't think there are many examples where a politician anyone voted for agreed with the votee in lock step on every issue or matter.

I generally agree with Ted Cruz on a lot of matters. Let me be clear for you: I do not agree with Senator Cruz on this topic nor do I agree with his tweet and find it to be very much in error and out of line with my way of thinking.

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lmao

lmao 178

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  • Author
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Again, why are people defaulting to "This is bad but WORSE is this is a hypocritical witch hunt by Republicans and BUT TRUMP!".

You people realize this thread was pulled at and unraveled by the Rhode Island equivalent of Austinlocal.com or culturemap.com or KXAN? This wasn't some astroturfed or GQP conspiracy theory or red meat for the base cooked up in a think tank lab to rile up the base.

If your problem is that political opponents are making fun of it and laughing at it and enjoying the unforced error and 15 minutes of political micro-controversy, then I question if your ability to consume politics and political news is appropriate for your state of mind or mental health state.

berneydidnotread.gif

Edited by lmao
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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20635

Posted
Posted

I wish this wasn't so complicated. At the most basic level, it's very important for everyone to acknowledge and accept that systemic racism is all around us. 

Does that mean you should cancel your country club or sailing club membership? No 

Does that mean you should personally beat yourself up for benefitting from systemic racism? No. 

Does that mean it's your personal responsibility to rid your life of any privilege as a result of systemic racism? No.

What we can't have is people being adversarial regarding systemic racism. Fighting back against it as some sort of defense mechanism. And that's what we're seeing from the GOP. 

I swear to fuck, the standard response for all these Republicans who bitch about stuff like this should be "IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU." 

 

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I wish this wasn't so complicated. At the most basic level, it's very important for everyone to acknowledge and accept that systemic racism is all around us. 

Does that mean you should cancel your country club or sailing club membership? No 

Does that mean you should personally beat yourself up for benefitting from systemic racism? No. 

Does that mean it's your personal responsibility to rid your life of any privilege as a result of systemic racism? No.

What we can't have is people being adversarial regarding systemic racism. Fighting back against it as some sort of defense mechanism. And that's what we're seeing from the GOP. 

I swear to fuck, the standard response for all these Republicans who bitch about stuff like this should be "IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU." 

 

I hear you, but I don't think what you are stating in the above is all that accurate. At the very least it is debatable. I certainly don't think it's as simple (or not so complicated as you said) and cut-and-dried as you have laid out.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

Posted
Posted
You vote for composites of people. I don't think there are many examples where a politician anyone voted for agreed with the votee in lock step on every issue or matter.
I generally agree with Ted Cruz on a lot of matters. Let me be clear for you: I do not agree with Senator Cruz on this topic nor do I agree with his tweet and find it to be very much in error and out of line with my way of thinking.

Lemme translate that for the world: “as a conservative, I SAY that I don’t like or support racism or race-baiting, but it’s FAR from a deal-breaker for me. I’m just fine with it, so long as the racist is in line with me on tax policy.”
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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20635

Posted
Posted
Just now, DonkeyCigars said:

I hear you, but I don't think what you are stating in the above is all that accurate. At the very least it is debatable.

Sure, there are some people that go overboard on how pro-active people should be to fight against systemic racism. 

But Republicans taking these broad criticisms so personally  and playing the victim is pathetic. 

 

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13391

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Fortunately and partly thanks to my dad, the Lions Club started accepting black men as members in the late 80s, but all those other 10 year olds I heard, they still think the same.  

I don't understand why someone would want to join a club that had just previously prevented you from joining. Maybe you do it because you want to help open up membership but I can't imagine wanting to be around the other members.

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14167

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't understand why someone would want to join a club that had just previously prevented you from joining. Maybe you do it because you want to help open up membership but I can't imagine wanting to be around the other members.

TDSUEK3MC3FETGMQWWO7NMX63I.jpg

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Sure, there are some people that go overboard on how pro-active people should be to fight against systemic racism. 

But Republicans taking these broad criticisms so personally  and playing the victim is pathetic. 

 

 

Have we met? My name is DonkeyCigars. I think I like you.

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2711

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Wonder how many Congresspeople were part of an "all white" fraternity or sorority in college. Funny that the right is all hot and bothered by this after 4 years of Trump basically living a country club life and Mar-a-Lago becoming a household name. 

I'm confused. Do Republicans want to ignore systemic racism or just use it as a whataboutism weapon? Make up your mind. 

 

"But Trump" doesn't really work here.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/palm-beach-used-to-be-a-nice-town-for-billionaires-then-trump-came-along/2019/01/08/a14b1708-1049-11e9-84fc-d58c33d6c8c7_story.html

"So Trump opened Mar-a-Lago as a private club in 1995. Unlike the Everglades or Bath and Tennis clubs, which did not admit Jewish members, and the Palm Beach Country Club, which admitted wealthy Jews, Mar-a-Lago was open to anyone. “Basically, he didn’t care who came in as long as they could pay for it,” explains a Palm Beach social expert. Money may have been the motive, but Trump’s open-door policy — his was the first club to accept African Americans and openly gay couples — began the slow process to diversify other clubs in town."

 

To the question at hand, it's a private club and they can do what they want.  Given he's a Dem he'll get away with it (and apparently the two other all white clubs he's a member of).  If he was a Rep he'd be getting slaughtered.  

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted

um, he is and will continue to get "slaughtered" for this, and rightfully so. 

but let's not pretend all these congress people aren't members of exclusive clubs, ivy league societies, fraternities, etc. it's all a part of white privilege. i think most of us born and bred texans do not fully understand how old money in the northeast operates. it is, in its own way, far more antebellum and racist than what we experience in texas, in large part because texas is far more diverse. "old money" texans would not be allowed in an old money northeastern club without connections.

ultimately, if your rhetoric is about diversity and inclusion, but you're a member of an all-white exclusive club, then it comes across as "diversity for thee, but not for me." it's completely hypocritical.

also, let's out all senators and representatives that are members of exclusive all-white clubs. should be educational.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

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Posted
24 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

um, he is and will continue to get "slaughtered" for this, and rightfully so. 

but let's not pretend all these congress people aren't members of exclusive clubs, ivy league societies, fraternities, etc. it's all a part of white privilege. i think most of us born and bred texans do not fully understand how old money in the northeast operates. it is, in its own way, far more antebellum and racist than what we experience in texas, in large part because texas is far more diverse. "old money" texans would not be allowed in an old money northeastern club without connections.

ultimately, if your rhetoric is about diversity and inclusion, but you're a member of an all-white exclusive club, then it comes across as "diversity for thee, but not for me." it's completely hypocritical.

also, let's out all senators and representatives that are members of exclusive all-white clubs. should be educational.

Love this post. This drives to the heart of it all; well done!

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