2022 Texas Baseball

[Fletch 5800]

So any word on Kennedy or Ivan? They’re not important to our lineup and defense or anything 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4771]

2 hours ago, Fletch said:

So any word on Kennedy or Ivan? They’re not important to our lineup and defense or anything 

Who cares … we got Pierce.

[ClubWhatever 12138]

As long as we are bagging on Pierce and fretting about our best players being missing…. It occurs to me that the 6 best things on this club basically fell into Pierce’s lap. 
1.  Melendez.  He was recommended to Pierce by a ex-player here who saw the Juco bombs he was hitting first hand.  The name of the ex-player escapes me. 
2.  Tulowitzki.  Huston Street told Pierce Tulo wanted a job at Texas. 
3.  Hansen.  Hansen recruited Texas, not the other way around. 
4.  Kennedy.  His brother played for Augie. 
5.  Stevens.  He recruited himself to Texas.
6.  Stehley.  Altobelli RIP (former Pierce teammate) coached and recommended this kid.  
 

[ztejas 43420]

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

Tulo wanted a job at Texas. 

 

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

Hansen recruited Texas

 

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

His brother played for Augie.

 

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

He recruited himself to Texas.

Hmmm seeing a trend here.

You're faulting Pierce for coaching at the most consistent college baseball powerhouse in the country that just happens to be located in a destination city? No shit stuff is going to fall into his lap. 

[Hookem2147 21217]

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

As long as we are bagging on Pierce and fretting about our best players being missing…. It occurs to me that the 6 best things on this club basically fell into Pierce’s lap. 
1.  Melendez.  He was recommended to Pierce by a ex-player here who saw the Juco bombs he was hitting first hand.  The name of the ex-player escapes me. 
2.  Tulowitzki.  Huston Street told Pierce Tulo wanted a job at Texas. 
3.  Hansen.  Hansen recruited Texas, not the other way around. 
4.  Kennedy.  His brother played for Augie. 
5.  Stevens.  He recruited himself to Texas.
6.  Stehley.  Altobelli RIP (former Pierce teammate) coached and recommended this kid.  
 

Part of being a good coach is having connections and uncovering hidden gems. You create your own luck in recruiting. Nothing just falls into your lap as a coach. You still have to manage a team of 30+ players and go win games.

[ClubWhatever 12138]

46 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

 

 

Hmmm seeing a trend here.

You're faulting Pierce for coaching at the most consistent college baseball powerhouse in the country that just happens to be located in a destination city? No shit stuff is going to fall into his lap. 

The question is does he maximize the recruiting advantages at his disposal?  If that were the case, then it strikes me as unlikely that all of the best players on the team would be essentially brought to his attention rather than being sought out first.  If you are consistently recruiting and signing the best available, does it seem likely that they all either had some prior connection to you or already wanted to come here?   

[ztejas 43420]

3 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

The question is does he maximize the recruiting advantages at his disposal?  If that were the case, then it strikes me as unlikely that all of the best players on the team would be essentially brought to his attention rather than being sought out first.  If you are consistently recruiting and signing the best available, does it seem likely that they all either had some prior connection to you or already wanted to come here?   

Well that's not the question because you didn't bring it up initially. I'm not sure whether he maximizes them or not - but it seemed like you were trying to hold coaching at Texas against Pierce. Anyone that coaches this program is going to have an embarrassment of riches and some of those riches are going to fall into their lap. Does that mean that Pierce is a lesser coach? Maybe. But it doesn't mean that he's gotten "lucky". 

[Had Enough 2081]

As long as we are bagging on Pierce and fretting about our best players being missing…. It occurs to me that the 6 best things on this club basically fell into Pierce’s lap. 
1.  Melendez.  He was recommended to Pierce by a ex-player here who saw the Juco bombs he was hitting first hand.  The name of the ex-player escapes me. 
2.  Tulowitzki.  Huston Street told Pierce Tulo wanted a job at Texas. 
3.  Hansen.  Hansen recruited Texas, not the other way around. 
4.  Kennedy.  His brother played for Augie. 
5.  Stevens.  He recruited himself to Texas.
6.  Stehley.  Altobelli RIP (former Pierce teammate) coached and recommended this kid.  
 

Did you know Augie had a guy on the team, on campus that didn’t do a whole lot one year? Well he hit 4 homers.

I specifically mean the guy that went to Baylor the following year and was all Big 12 and all American.

There also this one guy that came to campus as a 3rd pick and left as a 24th rounder.

So what does that mean?

[ClubWhatever 12138]

just furthering the discussion here with some more data points because it’s a message board.  Not everything has to be a pithy zinger to win an argument. 
 

Does Jack ODowd seem like the best we could have done for a transfer utility player?   Well, he’s here because his dad drafted Tulo. 

Daly is a damn good defensive second baseman but is he really the best we could have there?.  He’s another guy who recruited himself here.  
 

Hodo is an excellent defensive center fielder.  The best we could have?  I don’t know.  But we know why he’s here. 
 

Witt.  Now that seems like an honest to god eval, recruit, and sign “the best”.  Just terrible luck with his arm. 
 

Ardoin.   Another great eval, recruit, and sign.  
 

Faltine.   The best available, defensively.  No prior connections that I know of.  
 

 Messinger.  Here’s where the Texas brand paid off and Pierce jumped on it. 

[Had Enough 2081]

Dalys .316 average and .413 OBP as a Frosh says he’s pretty good.

Hodo while having the family tie brings a number of things to the table that says he belongs.

It would seem to me his history says he finds enough quality to win. And he did enough to get Melendez back. With the relatively low profile of baseball, I’d think a very high percentage comes thru connections. There’s lots of players out there for 11.7 scholarships.

He’s a good baseball guy. And we are winning at a .684 clip this year with a tough schedule while losing potentially our best pro prospect.

But damn if I’m not the least confident I’ve been all year regarding this team.

[jimmyjazz 45914]

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

The question is does he maximize the recruiting advantages at his disposal?  

I'm not sure . . . how would you compare his recruiting to that of Augie & Gus?  I'd guess he's at least their equals, just going by the eyeball test.  Did those two not have connections?

You're overthinking it.  Every coach has connections.  The better coaches have better connections, and use them wisely.

 

[Levi 2586]

College baseball is one of the best sports in my opinion because of all the different variables there are in getting players.  It’s all about who you know or where you’re at and all the coaches use this in some way. I don’t think it hurts them because there are countless DII, DIII, Juco, NAIA ect players that get overlooked and never get the chance to show their talent on the big stage. Theres just too many quality players out there he would need to individually scout but of course he doesn’t have the man power to do. Mlb Pro scouts have trouble seeing and identifying good talent so it’s easy to see how college coaches must use their trusted resources to recruit better players.
 

One thing from Pierce that I want to see more of, now that he’s shown himself on the big stage, is getting higher rated guys to commit and actually land on the 40. Vandy always seems to get a guy that in reality should be making a couple million as an 18 year old. 
 

 

[Hookem2147 21217]

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

just furthering the discussion here with some more data points because it’s a message board.  Not everything has to be a pithy zinger to win an argument. 
 

Does Jack ODowd seem like the best we could have done for a transfer utility player?   Well, he’s here because his dad drafted Tulo. 

Daly is a damn good defensive second baseman but is he really the best we could have there?.  He’s another guy who recruited himself here.  
 

Hodo is an excellent defensive center fielder.  The best we could have?  I don’t know.  But we know why he’s here. 
 

Witt.  Now that seems like an honest to god eval, recruit, and sign “the best”.  Just terrible luck with his arm. 
 

Ardoin.   Another great eval, recruit, and sign.  
 

Faltine.   The best available, defensively.  No prior connections that I know of.  
 

 Messinger.  Here’s where the Texas brand paid off and Pierce jumped on it. 

Texas was not an attractive portal destination this past year outside of 3B because almost the entire damn lineup returned.

You keep saying “recruited themselves here” like they just showed up one day and Pierce just said I guess I have to let you on the team. The street works both ways. There are plenty of examples at Texas and other places where someone pounds their fist on the table for a guy, the head coach says nah and then the guy bites them in the ass at some other school. 

Faltine, Daly, Hodo, Daly and Ardoin were mainstays on a team that finished #3 in the country last year. Maybe they aren’t all having the best years in 2022 but trying to go all revisionist history and ignore what they’ve accomplished in previous years when the team accomplished big things is um….interesting.

[chase25 2048]

6 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

just furthering the discussion here with some more data points because it’s a message board.  Not everything has to be a pithy zinger to win an argument. 
 

Does Jack ODowd seem like the best we could have done for a transfer utility player?   Well, he’s here because his dad drafted Tulo. 

Daly is a damn good defensive second baseman but is he really the best we could have there?.  He’s another guy who recruited himself here.  
 

Hodo is an excellent defensive center fielder.  The best we could have?  I don’t know.  But we know why he’s here. 
 

Witt.  Now that seems like an honest to god eval, recruit, and sign “the best”.  Just terrible luck with his arm. 
 

Ardoin.   Another great eval, recruit, and sign.  
 

Faltine.   The best available, defensively.  No prior connections that I know of.  
 

 Messinger.  Here’s where the Texas brand paid off and Pierce jumped on it. 

I don’t know what prompted this far out there rant but you do realize that baseball has 4 coaches?

The only way to recruit is having connections in baseball unless you expect them to never sleep and even then there isn’t enough time in the day with how many kids play baseball across the country.

Also don’t know how much you know based on the Messinger comment because Messinger is on record of saying the reason he came here was because of Tulo. He grew up in Colorado and Tulo was his idol. Had little to do with the Texas brand

[Herpa Derpa 6125]

I don't care how the best get here, just get them here if you can.

[Hookem2147 21217]

Only fall to #10 in the D1baseball rankings. No one in the top 25 really wanted to win this past week.

[Spaceman_Spiff 121]

I think its fair to say that Pierce has underperformed on HS recruiting expectations. From 2017-2021 we are the 32nd ranked team in HS recruiting (Perfect Game rankings, post-draft). We're 5th in the Big 12 behind Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma. There are two pieces to why we're behind. 

Not recruiting enough players: Baseball scouting and development is hazy at best, so the more players you take the better your chances of pulling in talent that can perform immediately or turn into something useful. In that 5 year period we brought 63 players to campus. A couple schools going for high volume were Vandy 81, Tech 87, Arkansas 96, and Tennessee at 106. Vitello has 8 more players every single year to turn into a Hansen, Elder, Kennedy, or Harrison (all lower rated guys from HS). This is in part why I think we have so many third or fourth year holdovers that are just not developing. If guys can't make an impact in the first couple years, they need to be fighting against a freshman pushing them for their spot. 

Not enough top-rated prospects: Texas had 3 guys from the Top 100 make it to campus: Madden, Faltine, and Witt. Vanderbilt had 23. Most other successful schools had 6, 8, or 10+. And anecdotally, I think that trickles down to mid-range talent too. In football terms, you can be successful with 3 and low 4 stars. But you're just going to get outgunned eventually on raw talent. Any way you slice it, we're going up against teams nationally that have 2-3x the high talent level guys we do. 

Now, clearly Pierce has been successful in other areas: scouting, development, and transfer/JUCO recruiting. But while Pierce is doing more with less, that doesn't mean he's done enough to get the highest possible level of talent on the team. 

[Hookem2147 21217]

44 minutes ago, Spaceman_Spiff said:

I think its fair to say that Pierce has underperformed on HS recruiting expectations. From 2017-2021 we are the 32nd ranked team in HS recruiting (Perfect Game rankings, post-draft). We're 5th in the Big 12 behind Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma. There are two pieces to why we're behind. 

Not recruiting enough players: Baseball scouting and development is hazy at best, so the more players you take the better your chances of pulling in talent that can perform immediately or turn into something useful. In that 5 year period we brought 63 players to campus. A couple schools going for high volume were Vandy 81, Tech 87, Arkansas 96, and Tennessee at 106. Vitello has 8 more players every single year to turn into a Hansen, Elder, Kennedy, or Harrison (all lower rated guys from HS). This is in part why I think we have so many third or fourth year holdovers that are just not developing. If guys can't make an impact in the first couple years, they need to be fighting against a freshman pushing them for their spot. 

Not enough top-rated prospects: Texas had 3 guys from the Top 100 make it to campus: Madden, Faltine, and Witt. Vanderbilt had 23. Most other successful schools had 6, 8, or 10+. And anecdotally, I think that trickles down to mid-range talent too. In football terms, you can be successful with 3 and low 4 stars. But you're just going to get outgunned eventually on raw talent. Any way you slice it, we're going up against teams nationally that have 2-3x the high talent level guys we do. 

Now, clearly Pierce has been successful in other areas: scouting, development, and transfer/JUCO recruiting. But while Pierce is doing more with less, that doesn't mean he's done enough to get the highest possible level of talent on the team. 

Tech, Arkansas, TCU and Oklahoma State always oversign and then cut a handful of kids after the fall or wait for the guys who don't make it through their first semester of college to weed themselves out. A&M is going to join this group as well under Schloss. The more kids you sign, obviously the higher your ranking is going to be. It is very easy for Tech, Arkansas, OSU (and A&M to an extent) especially because half the kids they "sign" every year are walk ons and the admission standards to get into those schools are basically nothing. For example, Tech signed freaking 25 kids in the 2022 class and you can only have I believe 33 on a college roster. So half those kids will transfer or be normal students by this time next year. Texas isn't able to follow the same model because obviously the admission standards are higher here. When a school can take a flier on 10 guys a year as walk ons, there a is a decent change 2 or 3 pan out once they get in a college strength and conditioning program and dedicate themselves.

Also, on the topic of recruiting rankings, it took Pierce a few years to find his footing. The 2017 class ranked in the 90's and only two players finished their careers at Texas (Bryce Elder and Cole Quintanilla). 2018 was much better (ranked 8th), 2019 we ranked 23rd, 2020 we only signed 10 kids and ranked 26th. 2021 class was weird. We only signed 9 kids since we had so many guys returning this year, but only 2 of those 9 were position players. We loaded up on pitchers (Harrison, Josh Stewart, Whitehead) and the only position player who is going to make an impact is likely Kash.

One thing I will say is NIL will be a huge benefit for getting kids on campus for Texas. It was one of the big reasons Melendez came back. Vanderbilt is tough school to compare us to because they have been able to get high profile kids on campus for years due to the loopholes they have being a private school and being able to manipulate scholarship numbers. Many don't realize that even the top 100 kids aren't getting full scholarships to Texas, so NIL is going to be very helpful to fill that gap and convince more kids to come to college or stay for an extra year. 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Hookem2147

[40acredropout 2902]

42 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Vanderbilt is tough school to compare us to because they have been able to get high profile kids on campus for years due to the loopholes they have being a private school and being able to manipulate scholarship numbers. 

Probably dumb questions but what does this actually look like?  Just having more flexibility to hand out more "academic" scholarships on top of the 11.7 allowed by the NCAA? 

Regarding admission hurdles, I'm assuming it's institutional rules (not NCAA) that defines how many players we can bring in who wouldn't meet academic standards as a regular student?  Is that a number we are privy to?

50 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

One thing I will say is NIL will be a huge benefit for getting kids on campus for Texas. It was one of the big reasons Melendez came back. 

I've been wondering about this.  I hadn't seen any news on baseball deals other than something with Last Stand Hats.  Are our guys actually making meaningful NIL money right now?

[Hookem2147 21217]

16 minutes ago, 40acredropout said:

Probably dumb questions but what does this actually look like?  Just having more flexibility to hand out more "academic" scholarships on top of the 11.7 allowed by the NCAA? 

Regarding admission hurdles, I'm assuming it's institutional rules (not NCAA) that defines how many players we can bring in who wouldn't meet academic standards as a regular student?  Is that a number we are privy to?

From an article with some of my own commentary mixed in. Not sure about any type of rule that defines how many players we can bring in who wouldn't normally meet academic standards:

Under NCAA rules, a Division 1 baseball team’s 11.7 scholarships can be divided between a maximum of 27 players on a 35-player roster, with all players on athletic scholarship having to receive a minimum of a 25 percent scholarship. That leaves room for eight walk-ons. You can carry more players in the fall but it has to be cut down to 35 by the spring. So when you see schools like Oklahoma State and Tech signing 20 freshman, half those guys will never wear the uniform.

Vanderbilt gets around the scholarship limits with Opportunity Vanderbilt, which promised that any student who was admitted to the school would not be prevented from attending due to cost of tuition.

“The school looked at each student’s family income, how much it could reasonably provide for their child to attend Vanderbilt, and subtracted that from the regular cost (Vanderbilt’s tuition for the 2018-19 school year was over $70,000),

Every year there are a lot of kids that come from low-income families, and there’s no way they can afford to go play college baseball, because they’re not even getting the full scholarship

Their parents would have to kick in, and they can’t afford to.

So what do these kids do? They go straight to minor league baseball, and take their bonus money and go on.

Well, Vanderbilt gets around this by saying, ‘Hey. Hang on. We’ll bring you in here. What’s your family income?'

And then they determine, ‘Okay, you only have to pay this. Because that’s not going as a part of the [athletic] scholarship money that person would have, they can apply more of it to their room and board.

The end result of Opportunity Vanderbilt, which is based on similar programs at other private colleges like the Ivy League schools and Rice, is Vanderbilt gets more players and better players than most other SEC schools.

Vanderbilt baseball head Tim Corbin admitted this system helps his program a lot.

“We have more of an inroad to a kid that is (in a) lower economic (situation) who wants to be here, can be here because of his economic situation,” Corbin said.

Texas is at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting against schools like Vandy because Texas doesn't have any type of program that can lower the cost of tuition and rarely gives out academic scholarships to anyone. A lot of private schools have similar programs and also private schools are a lot more generous with extra money that is kicked in from the schools side that can be combined with any athletic money they are getting in baseball. It's why private schools like Rice (10 years ago), DBU, TCU, etc are able to compete at such a high level despite going against heavy hitters like A&M, Tech, Texas, etc.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Hookem2147

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

20 minutes ago, 40acredropout said:

Probably dumb questions but what does this actually look like?  Just having more flexibility to hand out more "academic" scholarships on top of the 11.7 allowed by the NCAA? 

Regarding admission hurdles, I'm assuming it's institutional rules (not NCAA) that defines how many players we can bring in who wouldn't meet academic standards as a regular student?  Is that a number we are privy to?

I've been wondering about this.  I hadn't seen any news on baseball deals other than something with Last Stand Hats.  Are our guys actually making meaningful NIL money right now?

Vandy has been doing this for years and while other schools (with large endowments)  can too, they have definitely been using it to their advantage. Texas could too, but other sports (Title IX) would be chirping for that money also. NIL will eventually level the field on what Vandy has been doing to stregthen them against the SEC and the rest of the nation.

Here is a better explanation: 
www.postandcourier.com/sports/college/ncaas-new-baseball-scholarship-rules-will-help-some-colleges-more-than-others/article_391e1c66-d59b-11ea-8b0c-0393de0a1bfc.html

Note in particular this part of the article: 

"In 2008, Vanderbilt created “Opportunity Vanderbilt,” which promised that any student who was admitted to the school would not be prevented from attending due to cost of tuition. The school looked at each student’s family income, how much it could reasonably provide for their child to attend Vanderbilt, and subtracted that from the regular cost (Vanderbilt’s tuition for the 2018-19 school year was over $70,000). 

In essence, the cost of attendance was what the student and their family could afford. Some complained that it helped Vanderbilt get players through that program while allowing the school to use its 11.7 scholarships for other players.



It wasn’t that simple, as if a player chose Vanderbilt because of the school’s financial aid, he couldn’t partake in athletic aid. Yet Vandy has won two College World Series titles in the past six years and Corbin called it an advantage in a recent interview with The Athletic.



“We have more of an inroad to a kid that is (in a) lower economic (situation) who wants to be here, can be here because of his economic situation,” Corbin said. “Does it hurt us? Yeah, because we don’t get every kid we want. But you also understand, it is an advantage for us, there is no doubt.”



Vanderbilt is a private school and has that advantage over every other school in the SEC. And now it can mix and match school and athletic financial aid, much like other private schools can (Stanford, Tulane, Miami, etc.).

The schools with the biggest endowments will benefit the most but all coaches will have the same opportunity. They can tell a prospect that he can receive aid from the school with academic scholarships, Pell grants and/or loans and they can also get some money from the pool of 11.7 scholarships.



Yet not many schools have the kind of endowments that can fund numerous academic initiatives.



“People that had this idea that this is going to hurt Vandy or even the playing field are sadly mistaken,” Rogers said. “Vandy now has another avenue to bolster the scholarships and a guy could essentially be a walk-on getting a full ride. If anything, it helps schools like Vanderbilt.”

[Spaceman_Spiff 121]

1 hour ago, Hookem2147 said:

Tech, Arkansas, TCU and Oklahoma State always oversign and then cut a handful of kids after the fall or wait for the guys who don't make it through their first semester of college to weed themselves out. A&M is going to join this group as well under Schloss. The more kids you sign, obviously the higher your ranking is going to be. It is very easy for Tech, Arkansas, OSU (and A&M to an extent) especially because half the kids they "sign" every year are walk ons and the admission standards to get into those schools are basically nothing. For example, Tech signed freaking 25 kids in the 2022 class and you can only have I believe 33 on a college roster. So half those kids will transfer or be normal students by this time next year. Texas isn't able to follow the same model because obviously the admission standards are higher here. When a school can take a flier on 10 guys a year as walk ons, there a is a decent change 2 or 3 pan out once they get in a college strength and conditioning program and dedicate themselves.

Also, on the topic of recruiting rankings, it took Pierce a few years to find his footing. The 2017 class ranked in the 90's and only two players finished their careers at Texas (Bryce Elder and Cole Quintanilla). 2018 was much better (ranked 8th), 2019 we ranked 23rd, 2020 we only signed 10 kids and ranked 26th. 2021 class was weird. We only signed 9 kids since we had so many guys returning this year, but only 2 of those 9 were position players. We loaded up on pitchers (Harrison, Josh Stewart, Whitehead) and the only position player who is going to make an impact is likely Kash.

One thing I will say is NIL will be a huge benefit for getting kids on campus for Texas. It was one of the big reasons Melendez came back. Vanderbilt is tough school to compare us to because they have been able to get high profile kids on campus for years due to the loopholes they have being a private school and being able to manipulate scholarship numbers. Many don't realize that even the top 100 kids aren't getting full scholarships to Texas, so NIL is going to be very helpful to fill that gap and convince more kids to come to college or stay for an extra year. 

 

Fair point on admissions standards - though Vandy is tougher than we are and plenty of schools that have easy admissions standards aren't hitting those numbers. At least some of that can be attributed to the staff. We also hit 21 kids in the 2018 class and regularly take fliers on JUCO; I concede that it's a factor but not sure I'm ready to say Texas just can't compete for numbers. At the very least, we should be consistently hitting the max we can, knowing we can't have huge classes every other year. 

Last years class (ranked 60th) is exactly the thing that goes against your argument. 9 guys is just too low, and we're seeing the holes in our roster this year. Getting 2, maybe 3 guys that contribute from a class is brutal for future years, especially if what you see on numbers is true. 

Agreed on NIL, and I it does have that impact.  

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

15 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

As long as we are bagging on Pierce and fretting about our best players being missing…. It occurs to me that the 6 best things on this club basically fell into Pierce’s lap. 
1.  Melendez.  He was recommended to Pierce by a ex-player here who saw the Juco bombs he was hitting first hand.  The name of the ex-player escapes me. 
2.  Tulowitzki.  Huston Street told Pierce Tulo wanted a job at Texas. 
3.  Hansen.  Hansen recruited Texas, not the other way around. 
4.  Kennedy.  His brother played for Augie. 
5.  Stevens.  He recruited himself to Texas.
6.  Stehley.  Altobelli RIP (former Pierce teammate) coached and recommended this kid.  
 

Omar Quintinilla was the one that recommended him. Both from El Paso and he had seen him play.

[Hookem2147 21217]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman_Spiff said:

Fair point on admissions standards - though Vandy is tougher than we are and plenty of schools that have easy admissions standards aren't hitting those numbers. At least some of that can be attributed to the staff. We also hit 21 kids in the 2018 class and regularly take fliers on JUCO; I concede that it's a factor but not sure I'm ready to say Texas just can't compete for numbers. At the very least, we should be consistently hitting the max we can, knowing we can't have huge classes every other year. 

Last years class (ranked 60th) is exactly the thing that goes against your argument. 9 guys is just too low, and we're seeing the holes in our roster this year. Getting 2, maybe 3 guys that contribute from a class is brutal for future years, especially if what you see on numbers is true. 

Agreed on NIL, and I it does have that impact.  

We will probably be more active in the portal market than we were in previous offseasons. Signed 14 guys in the 2022 class for next season, might lose 1 or 2 of those to the draft and will have a bunch of open starting spots with guys who are departing.

Not really an apples to apples comparison, but Childress left Schloss a ton of holes and A&M was able to go out and sign a ton of portal guys. I think like their top 4 in the order and Saturday starter were all transfers. There will be a lot of good players in the portal in a few months.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Hookem2147

[GreenspointTexas 9600]

5 teams from Texas ranked in top 25. Goddamn!

[TwiceHorn 31457]

Texas is in a funny place, particularly for out-of-state students.  Tuition is still relatively cheap, compared to "elite"ish private schools, but at almost all the private schools, no one pays full tuition.

We have a family friend that is admitted to Texas, but out of state.  Just about every private she's admitted to winds up being cheaper than Texas with "automatic aid" kind of like the Vanderbilt deal, and despite their "retail" tuition being double or more Texas'.

[jimmyjazz 45914]

Yeah, the calculus seems to be (zero order) out-of-state high-end public = private.  Beyond that, there are small effects, but the publics rarely offer much money, whereas the privates do (although they tend to start at a higher price tag).

I mean, UC-Boulder seems to have built its brand on being a decent school that won't cut out-of-state kids a break, so it's littered with well-to-do students who couldn't get into Michigan.

[EZ$ 2104]

15 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Did you know Augie had a guy on the team, on campus that didn’t do a whole lot one year? Well he hit 4 homers.

I specifically mean the guy that went to Baylor the following year and was all Big 12 and all American.

There also this one guy that came to campus as a 3rd pick and left as a 24th rounder.

So what does that mean?

Who were these guys?

[BurdineBandit 815]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Texas is in a funny place, particularly for out-of-state students.  Tuition is still relatively cheap, compared to "elite"ish private schools, but at almost all the private schools, no one pays full tuition.

We have a family friend that is admitted to Texas, but out of state.  Just about every private she's admitted to winds up being cheaper than Texas with "automatic aid" kind of like the Vanderbilt deal, and despite their "retail" tuition being double or more Texas'.

As a public state school, we rely on those kids as money-makers. Because they're willingly paying the higher cost to attend as an out-of-state student at that OOS rate. Private schools are on a whole other funding scheme. 

[Had Enough 2081]

Who were these guys?

Charley Carter
Russell Moldenhauer. It should have read 3rd round pick. Not 3rd.

[zlavydra 2121]

32 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Charley Carter
Russell Moldenhauer. It should have read 3rd round pick. Not 3rd.

Moldenhomer!

[torre 1285]

19 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Did you know Augie had a guy on the team, on campus that didn’t do a whole lot one year? Well he hit 4 homers.

I specifically mean the guy that went to Baylor the following year and was all Big 12 and all American.

There also this one guy that came to campus as a 3rd pick and left as a 24th rounder.

So what does that mean?

 

3 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Charley Carter
Russell Moldenhauer. It should have read 3rd round pick. Not 3rd.

 

Respect your posts, don't want to debate, but checked back   Need to defend Moldenhauer.   🙂

Carter was a transfer from McLennan who came in Augie's first year (1997) and left.   Baylor was a strong program and we were rebuilding.   Perhaps he did not want to be part of  the rebuild or other reasons.   iirc,  others left after Augie's first year.

Moldenhauer was a highly rated catcher, outstanding hitter in high school.  Competed with Preston Clark and Cameron Rupp.    Primarily a DH and OF at Texas which resulted in lower draft position.     Always a place in my heart for key hits against aggy.

But certainly agree with your initial post.   Alot of intangibles in recruiting.

 

[Fletch 5800]

3 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Charley Carter
Russell Moldenhauer. It should have read 3rd round pick. Not 3rd.

Moldenhauer hurt his throwing shoulder or some shit. He still has an MLB bat but he was drafted that high out of high school cause he was the complete package at catcher. Then he got hurt and could only really DH

[Fletch 5800]

30 minutes ago, torre said:

 

 

Respect your posts, don't want to debate, but checked back   Need to defend Moldenhauer.   🙂

Carter was a transfer from McLennan who came in Augie's first year (1997) and left.   Baylor was a strong program and we were rebuilding.   Perhaps he did not want to be part of  the rebuild or other reasons.   iirc,  others left after Augie's first year.

Moldenhauer was a highly rated catcher, outstanding hitter in high school.  Competed with Preston Clark and Cameron Rupp.    Primarily a DH and OF at Texas which resulted in lower draft position.     Always a place in my heart for key hits against aggy.

But certainly agree with your initial post.   Alot of intangibles in recruiting.

 

Ahhhhh the days of dudes like Preston Clark and Cameron Rupp battling it out for starting catcher leaving a stud like Moldenhauer the odd man out 

[Had Enough 2081]

 
Respect your posts, don't want to debate, but checked back   Need to defend Moldenhauer.   
Carter was a transfer from McLennan who came in Augie's first year (1997) and left.   Baylor was a strong program and we were rebuilding.   Perhaps he did not want to be part of  the rebuild or other reasons.   iirc,  others left after Augie's first year.
Moldenhauer was a highly rated catcher, outstanding hitter in high school.  Competed with Preston Clark and Cameron Rupp.    Primarily a DH and OF at Texas which resulted in lower draft position.     Always a place in my heart for key hits against aggy.
But certainly agree with your initial post.   Alot of intangibles in recruiting.
 

It’s not intended to be a slight to Moldenhauer. But his story is a bit of an anomaly. I’m glad he was here and more disappointed for him that it didn’t work out better in the end. Or maybe for him it did. I’m merely an observer and not familiar with any inside perspective as to why he came to campus or what he’s doing now. And I do think he can be proud of finishing what he started in spite of whatever accolades he had coming in.

On Carter, I have no inside info on him either. Just aware of the statistical impact from one year to the next.

In all sports, the system or coaching style impacts guys differently. As I age and reflect back but also observe things happening today, the more I believe environments and circumstances impact outcomes far greater than natural talent. And we all fit certain systems or styles better than others.

Over the past 25 years of Texas baseball, if I were a hitter with pro aspirations, I’d choose a Pierce coached team over an Augie coached one. If the objective was to play in the most College World Series, then an Augie coached team is a good choice. But Pierce may be too. With what I believe is a greater emphasis on hitting, Moldenhauer would be an interesting guy on this team. I think he’d do quite well. But that doesn’t mean the same for every guy passing thru in these 25 years. Majewski was incredible and difficult to believe he could have done better. Anywhere. At any time.

The objective is to win. You only become one of the top programs all time by doing a lot of that. It’s pretty incredible that we’ve sustained for so long. It can be done in different ways too. Gus, Augie and Pierce could all frustrate the hell out of you (well me anyway). Pierces story still is unfolding, but I’m pleased with his progress thus far.

Al Davis was right. “Just win baby!”

[Horn80 6119]

6 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

5 teams from Texas ranked in top 25. Goddamn!

Snort

[Had Enough 2081]

Moldenhauer hurt his throwing shoulder or some shit. He still has an MLB bat but he was drafted that high out of high school cause he was the complete package at catcher. Then he got hurt and could only really DH

I don’t know the particulars of his injuries, but here is an excerpt from his bio from Texassports.com. It looks as though he already converted to 3rd in high school. Based on games played, it looks his Junior year at Texas would be the year he was not 100%. He pitched as a Senior in high school then was mostly DH as a frosh at Texas. There wasn’t discussion in his bio about injuries. It did reference his conversion to OF in 2007 though. I wasn’t aware that he was a solid footballer in high school.


Batted .510 with eight home runs and 27 RBI as a senior, earning first-team all-district, first-team All-Area San Antonio Super Team and first-team all-state as a third baseman.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

30 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

 I wasn’t aware that he was a solid footballer in high school.


Batted .510 with eight home runs and 27 RBI as a senior, earning first-team all-district, first-team All-Area San Antonio Super Team and first-team all-state as a third baseman.

Russell was pretty much All everything in high school. He also was the State player of the year (baseball) for 4A-5A as a senior. He still holds plenty of records for Boerne and was inducted to the school's Athletic Hall of Honor in '20. His dad played for Tech while in college and was one of my teachers and also one of my baseball coaches when I went to school there in Boerne.

Russell is passing on what he learned from his dad and is involved (instructing/coaching) with a business and a club(s) in Boerne that helps youth that want to get better or up to the next level. 🤘

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

This is a much less interesting regional. 

 

[LTtxfan 49184]

 

[petscii 1189]

Gonzaga host?  

[zlavydra 2121]

Tomorrow night v. AFA we'll see Eckhardt v. Dylan Rogers, a freshman from McKinney, who's making his first start.

[torre 1285]

2 hours ago, BillyGoatHill said:

Russell was pretty much All everything in high school. He also was the State player of the year (baseball) for 4A-5A as a senior. He still holds plenty of records for Boerne and was inducted to the school's Athletic Hall of Honor in '20. His dad played for Tech while in college and was one of my teachers and also one of my baseball coaches when I went to school there in Boerne.

Russell is passing on what he learned from his dad and is involved (instructing/coaching) with a business and a club(s) in Boerne that helps youth that want to get better or up to the next level. 🤘

Thanks for the info.   I met his parents at a restaurant travelling to a game at aggy.   I thought his dad was an educator thus the reason he may have not signed the 3rd round offer.    Below is an excerpt from the full bio on TexasSports.

Doesn't Hodo's dad have a baseball clinic in the Boerne area or did at one time  ?

 

HIGH SCHOOL
· Earned four letters as a third baseman, catcher and pitcher for head coach Chuck Foster at Boerne (Texas) High School.
· Holds Boerne High School career records for home runs (29), doubles (24), singles (105), runs (139) and RBI (133).
· Tabbed a 2006 first-team All-American by the National High School Baseball Coaches Association.

Batted .500 with 13 home runs and 55 RBI earning first-team all-state as a catcher, co-MVP of Greater San Antonio as sophomore and 4A State Player of the Year.

https://texassports.com/sports/baseball/roster/russell-moldenhauer/2856

Edited April 19, 2022 by torre

[Cairn Horn88 8262]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Kansas State was 12-2 at home….14-3 after they played the Horns.    Apparently, it’s true that …. There’s no place like Home!

[LTtxfan 49184]

3 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Kansas State was 12-2 at home….14-3 after they played the Horns.    Apparently, it’s true that …. There’s no place like Home!

[markstanco 12576]

6-6 in conference. Not good. Hoping for a regional at home, super, no way.

[Fletch 5800]

6 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Over the past 25 years of Texas baseball, if I were a hitter with pro aspirations, I’d choose a Pierce coached team over an Augie coached one. If the objective was to play in the most College World Series, then an Augie coached team is a good choice. But Pierce may be too. With what I believe is a greater emphasis on hitting, Moldenhauer would be an interesting guy on this team. I think he’d do quite well. But that doesn’t mean the same for every guy passing thru in these 25 years. Majewski was incredible and difficult to believe he could have done better. Anywhere. At any time.

The objective is to win. You only become one of the top programs all time by doing a lot of that. It’s pretty incredible that we’ve sustained for so long. It can be done in different ways too. Gus, Augie and Pierce could all frustrate the hell out of you (well me anyway). Pierces story still is unfolding, but I’m pleased with his progress thus far.
 

Man you just got me thinking of our 2012-2016 teams. ‘12-‘15 look much different under Pierce IMO. Ben Johnson, Payton, Knebal, Peters, French, Thornhill, Marlow, Shaw and some other pieces in ‘12 and ‘13. Add Kacy, Tres, Hinojosa, Gurwitz in 2014 then Kody and Mathis and Boswell in 2015 and ‘16. Lot of really solid talent wasted from 2012-2016. That drop off was worse than 5-7 after the Colt bama rose bowl. (Results wise after Jungmann left)

 

57 minutes ago, markstanco said:

6-6 in conference. Not good. Hoping for a regional at home, super, no way.

3 of our last 4 conference series are at home. If Hansen didn’t lose it Friday night, we’d be sitting at 7-5. Were going to rape baylor this weekend cause they suck and we’re pretty good at home. Oklahoma state series is gonna be a lot of fun. I’m not totally sold on West Virginia. I think they’re very beatable 

Oh and dumbass, you realize if you host a regional you have a shot at hosting a super, right? Shit, you can host a super without hosting a regional. So yeah. Your entire post is just all around stupid 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Fletch

[TheBryMan81 2509]

20 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

Texas is at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting against schools like Vandy because Texas doesn't have any type of program that can lower the cost of tuition

I'm nitpicking a little, but this isn't entirely true.

https://texasadvance.utexas.edu/

Starting Fall 2020

TUITION COVERED

Up to $65,000

adjusted gross income

 

TUITION SUPPORT

Up to $125,000

adjusted gross income

If your family makes less then 65K, tuition is fully covered. Less than 125k, and you get some lower tuition costs.

 

Now I don't know how an athletic scholarship would affect this. If a player gets a 25% scholarship for baseball, would he still qualify for the above? I don't know.

[Had Enough 2081]

You’re far better at remembering the years than I am. I know the guys but have a difficult time placing them on which team. Mathis was a guy with seemingly lots of pop.

I do enjoy the refresher on some of the guys and appreciate hearing a little insight on them too.

Maybe I’m a little too soft, but I’ll take it easy on the players and give a little more grief to their coaches on outcomes. I do believe if you can do it once, that is your ceiling. The difficulty is repeating it time and again. And baseball is made for occasional slumps. This board is mostly emotional when it comes to ripping ass whereas football is just all out jackasses.

[Had Enough 2081]

You’re far better at remembering the years than I am. I know the guys but have a difficult time placing them on which team. Mathis was a guy with seemingly lots of pop.

I do enjoy the refresher on some of the guys and appreciate hearing a little insight on them too.

Maybe I’m a little too soft, but I’ll take it easy on the players and give a little more grief to their coaches on outcomes. I do believe if you can do it once, that is your ceiling. The difficulty is repeating it time and again. And baseball is made for occasional slumps. This board is mostly emotional when it comes to ripping ass whereas football is just all out jackasses.