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Arsenal 2021-22: The Youth Movement

shadow_operative

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dbecks
dbecks

A bit of a humblebrag, I know. But had to share. Talked the missus into an extended layover in London on our European honeymoon. COYG!

texanbychoice
texanbychoice

Tough loss, guys. Go get ‘em next week.

Surly Bevo
Surly Bevo

Motion to retitle thread.  Arsenal 2020-2021:  Well Fuck

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shadow_operative

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22 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Arteta is the Spanish Special One.   Special as in rides the short bus special.   He’s a clown, this team plays with the passion of the 2017 USMNT team that didn’t qualify for the WC.  

He simply has to go.  

Arteta leaving won't change anything; just like changing wenger/ljungberg/emery didn't change anything. we are a team that is totally in flux, and this entire season is about staying healthy and building chemistry. i'm not saying that arteta has shown me anything, because he hasn't. but god damn, how much better would he/the team look if *we* signed players like Lukaku instead of that being a hilariously unrealistic proposition.

the club has a vision; we've signed a ton of young players who are all still growing into their own. give them a year to see if they can bring it together, and for the love of god get us an every day striker. sacking the manager right now won't change anything.

 

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Dutch

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Hell of a business plan Kroenke has. Pay £2b for the club then let it decay and run into the ground. Nothing is changing as long as that fuckstick owns Arsenal Football Club. Arteta has to go, but what world class manager would work for KSE? Fucking hell. 

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Ted Lange

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The actual $ amount they spend isn’t the #1 problem, how Arteta and Edu choose to spend it is #1.   Arteta is so out of his depth at this level it’s ridiculous.

Ultimately nothing will change as long as Kroenke owns the team, Arsenal is basically Newcastle now. 

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shadow_operative

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16 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

The actual $ amount they spend isn’t the #1 problem, how Arteta and Edu choose to spend it is #1.   Arteta is so out of his depth at this level it’s ridiculous.

Ultimately nothing will change as long as Kroenke owns the team, Arsenal is basically Newcastle now. 

i like the way they've chosen to spend this money. we needed a squad overhaul. i really doubt that Arteta will be the man to see out this project, but it won't surprise me to look up in two years and see that we have a very strong squad filled with players all still in their 20's. of course we still need to add a true world class player or two, but the strategy of stockpiling young EPL level talent is sound.

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Surly Bevo

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Derka would agree with you if this was an American team where you sometimes have to tear it completely down, but a Big 6 EPL team, who was trying to go to the fucking Super League with the way Association Football talent acquisition works should never ever be in Houston Astros 2010-2015 mode.  

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CooterBrown

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i like the way they've chosen to spend this money. we needed a squad overhaul. i really doubt that Arteta will be the man to see out this project, but it won't surprise me to look up in two years and see that we have a very strong squad filled with players all still in their 20's. of course we still need to add a true world class player or two, but the strategy of stockpiling young EPL level talent is sound.

In two years, we’ll be one of the best teams in the Championship.
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shadow_operative

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sigh. y'all act like we're fielding a really good team with lots of balance and depth and experience together. we aren't. no Auba, no Laca, no Odegaard, no Partey, no White, no Bellerin. our captain is Granit Xhaka. we have a team full of young, inexperienced players, many of whom are either getting real minutes for the first time, playing a new position, or both, and y'all act we're supposed to be some well oiled machine. i have no idea what you expected from today, but i'm actually pleasantly surprised that it wasn't 4-0. Chelsea's bench could have beaten our starting lineup today. this is still a work in progress.

 this summer is the first summer since i became a fan over a decade ago where we've actually gone out and spent big money/initiated a total squad overhaul, and yet you guys want to fire the manager who just selected and brought in all of these players. i'm sorry, but y'all are tripping with no map. 

do you want Arsenal to be good or not? because firing the manager who just now brought in all of this young talent isn't going to do it. we've spent the money; we've secured the core of the team for the next 3+ years. how about we give the guys at least a season to see if they can jell and find some chemistry.in my opinion, firing Arteta now would be the stupidest possible move, and it pains me that y'all can't see that.

and FTR, i don't support Arteta any more than i did Ljungberg or Emery- this isn't about him. this about doing a team overhaul the right way. give the manager an actual chance with all of the players he just brought in. and temper your expectations for the time being. you don't have to be a football savant to look at our current lineup and know that we're going to suck for a minute, just like you don't need to be a football savant to know that these players have had zero time to play together, learn and earn their roles, and then bring it all together out on the pitch. if we don't show real improvement by next spring then sure, fire Arteta and being in one of those young German coaches to build up this young core. but get rid of any ideas you have about firing Arteta now. that would be insanity.

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shadow_operative

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on the positive side, Sambi looks ready, and looks like he could be a real steal based on his play early on. he already looks like he's our best MF, Odegaard notwithstanding. regardless of who the manager is a year or two from now, i really do support the moves this club has made, for the first time since i've become a supporter. look at the spine of the team going forward:

GK-Ramsdale (possibly Leno as well?)

CB-Saliba, Gabriel, and White

MF- Partey, Sambi, Odegaard, and yes, Xhaka 🤨 

ST- this is the one spot that I really want to see us lock down soon, assuming that neither Auba/Laca sets the world on fire.

that ^^^ is a solid plan moving forward. that spine of the team + Martinelli, Saka, Pepé, Tierney, and (potentially) Nelson and AMN, and you can clearly see that we have a plan and are trying to build a sustainable roster of young, talented players. again, I have no idea if Arteta is the man to take this squad (+ a real striker) back to the UEFA CL (i tend to think 'probably not'), but i am happy enough with the direction we are moving to where i'm not going to be calling for the manager's head when we suck right now. we're gonna be better a year from now, and we ought to be much improved a year after that. in the meantime we're going to take our lumps, and i can accept that, for the time being anyway. i really do believe this is a solid plan however, and i'm behind it.

 

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GlenFromTheMailRoom

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3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

sigh. y'all act like we're fielding a really good team with lots of balance and depth and experience together. we aren't. no Auba, no Laca, no Odegaard, no Partey, no White, no Bellerin. our captain is Granit Xhaka. we have a team full of young, inexperienced players, many of whom are either getting real minutes for the first time, playing a new position, or both, and y'all act we're supposed to be some well oiled machine. i have no idea what you expected from today, but i'm actually pleasantly surprised that it wasn't 4-0. Chelsea's bench could have beaten our starting lineup today. this is still a work in progress.

 this summer is the first summer since i became a fan over a decade ago where we've actually gone out and spent big money/initiated a total squad overhaul, and yet you guys want to fire the manager who just selected and brought in all of these players. i'm sorry, but y'all are tripping with no map. 

do you want Arsenal to be good or not? because firing the manager who just now brought in all of this young talent isn't going to do it. we've spent the money; we've secured the core of the team for the next 3+ years. how about we give the guys at least a season to see if they can jell and find some chemistry.in my opinion, firing Arteta now would be the stupidest possible move, and it pains me that y'all can't see that.

and FTR, i don't support Arteta any more than i did Ljungberg or Emery- this isn't about him. this about doing a team overhaul the right way. give the manager an actual chance with all of the players he just brought in. and temper your expectations for the time being. you don't have to be a football savant to look at our current lineup and know that we're going to suck for a minute, just like you don't need to be a football savant to know that these players have had zero time to play together, learn and earn their roles, and then bring it all together out on the pitch. if we don't show real improvement by next spring then sure, fire Arteta and being in one of those young German coaches to build up this young core. but get rid of any ideas you have about firing Arteta now. that would be insanity.

You are wholesale wrong.  The tactics the last two matches showed how out classed Arteta is as a manager. 
 

It took him 45 minutes to realize he left the entire left side exposed.  We’re losing out of the tunnel because he’s bad at his job.

He has a ton of great, young talent on hand.  He just doesn’t know how to fucking use them.

Martinelli was a non-factor and half the players you cited as the “core” didn’t play.  You said it yourself, there is no map.

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shadow_operative

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1 minute ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

You are wholesale wrong.  The tactics the last two matches showed how out classed Arteta is as a manager. 
 

It took him 45 minutes to realize he left the entire left side exposed.  We’re losing out of the tunnel because he’s bad at his job.

ok, so let's fire him. then what? what top flight manager is going to join this club and fix everything? when Wenger left we had an incredibly attractive job opening and we got Emery; then Freddie; now a rookie manager; so let's fire our third manager in five years, moments after we've just signed a whole bunch of young players whom he personally recruited, players selected to play his style. explain to me what happens after we fire Arteta, and how it does anything to improve the state of the club.

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GlenFromTheMailRoom

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18 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

ok, so let's fire him. then what? what top flight manager is going to join this club and fix everything? when Wenger left we had an incredibly attractive job opening and we got Emery; then Freddie; now a rookie manager; so let's fire our third manager in five years, moments after we've just signed a whole bunch of young players whom he personally recruited, players selected to play his style. explain to me what happens after we fire Arteta, and how it does anything to improve the state of the club.

Dude, you’re literally identifying all the reasons he shouldn’t be the coach.  He’s literally getting coached out of the box.  It doesn’t matter who is on the pitch.  You cannot be this fucking dense.

And no.  You don’t get another fucking rookie manager.  You go get one that knows what he’s doing.  We drop $150mm this summer and we can’t pay a top flight manager?  Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

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GlenFromTheMailRoom

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5 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

so, you're not going to answer my question, you can't name a viable replacement, and you're going to insult me in the process. yup. this is why i said that arsenal fans are by and large a buncha retards who are only happy when they're miserable. 

Valverde, Setien, Pirlo, etc.  Do I need to keep going?  
 

You are flat fucking wrong dude.

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shadow_operative

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18 minutes ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

Valverde, Setien, Pirlo, etc.  Do I need to keep going?  
 

You are flat fucking wrong dude.

so those guys are all going to willingly hop on board the Kroenke Train, taking over a subpar squad that was just hand selected to be coached by Arteta, knowing full well that they have an uphill battle to get us back into the CL, that Wenger, Emery, and Arteta all failed to do so, and that Emery and Arteta were given only a couple of seasons (less than two seasons for Arteta) before they were fired. buddy, i don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. why in the fuck would any of those coaches want to step into that situation? "we just bought a bunch of players for Mikel Arteta and then we immediately fired him. please come take this job, and get us back into the CL next year, or you're fired too." yeah that sounds doable. 🙄 

the manager is not the problem. the problem is and always has been KSE. now that KSE has *finally* spent competitive money, you want to sack the guy who they just bought all the players for, immediately after buying them that is some completely nonsensical, short sighted, irrational, know-nothing fanboy shit. but uh, keep yelling and cussing and believing that the magical formula is to simply can the manager and suddenly everything is all better. clearly i can't stop you.

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Surly Bevo

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Derka, take a breath and allow me to take over the rant. 

Arteta may not be the guy, I don't disagree with you that you fire him now you may not going to get anything better (remember I'm the guy who joked we should just take back Arsene)

That said you may be well right about some of what you are projecting forward in the coming 2-3 seasons BUT you should be pissed off beyond belief that you are even having to type that shit out.  This is a club that at least in theory doesn't believe it's a West Ham United, a Southampton hell even an Everton or a gasp Tottenham  If you want to believe you are a fan of one the premeire clubs in Europe and with the way the transactional business side of things work with players and coaches than you should never be satisfied with we suck right now. we're gonna be better a year from now, and we ought to be much improved a year after that.

Oh fucking really?  Arsenal ought to be "much improved" in the 2023-2024 campaign?  Again this isn't American style sports, a squad like Chelsea has made itself, remade itself, and remade itself again in the last decade having one shitty 10th place campaign and one where they finished 6th...and oh yea won the Champions League so fuck me.  ManC does the same.  Fuck even Spurs although they never quite grasp the silver have figured out how to retool and do it quickly.  2-3 years and we might be improved may be right and at the same time should make you want to burn that motherfucker down.  

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shadow_operative

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Arteta: buy me £200M worth of players.

KSE: done.

Arteta: ok good, what i'm hoping to accomplish in this first season with my new players is-

KSE: you're fired.

Arteta: Que?

KSE: you heard us, you're fired.

Arteta: I haven't even had a chance to coach my players. half of my starters are out injured and my new players haven't even gotten their footing yet.

KSE: doesn't matter the lads on reddit and glen from the mail room said you gotta go, so.

Arteta: wow. seems harsh.

world class coaches everywhere: OH BOY, CAN I PLEASE SIGN UP FOR THIS GIG NOW, WHAT AN AMAZING JOB IN SUCH A HEALTHY WORK ENVIRONMENT!!!

🙄

people get so caught up in hating a HC/manager that they can't even see/hear/listen to anything other than "fire the manager." it's so dumb. if he's that wrong for the club, he'll still be that wrong for the club next May. but Arsenal fans would rather see the club take a giant step backwards, so long as they get their pound of flesh. it's patently fucking stupid.

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shadow_operative

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5 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Derka, take a breath and allow me to take over the rant. 

Arteta may not be the guy, I don't disagree with you that you fire him now you may not going to get anything better (remember I'm the guy who joked we should just take back Arsene)

That said you may be well right about some of what you are projecting forward in the coming 2-3 seasons BUT you should be pissed off beyond belief that you are even having to type that shit out.  This is a club that at least in theory doesn't believe it's a West Ham United, a Southampton hell even an Everton or a gasp Tottenham  If you want to believe you are a fan of one the premeire clubs in Europe and with the way the transactional business side of things work with players and coaches than you should never be satisfied with we suck right now. we're gonna be better a year from now, and we ought to be much improved a year after that.

Oh fucking really?  Arsenal ought to be "much improved" in the 2023-2024 campaign?  Again this isn't American style sports, a squad like Chelsea has made itself, remade itself, and remade itself again in the last decade having one shitty 10th place campaign and one where they finished 6th...and oh yea won the Champions League so fuck me.  ManC does the same.  Fuck even Spurs although they never quite grasp the silver have figured out how to retool and do it quickly.  2-3 years and we might be improved may be right and at the same time should make you want to burn that motherfucker down.  

i feel you man. we should never ever ever have gotten to this point. once the decision was made to let Wenger go we should have identified some of the tippy tippy top managers in the world and thrown the full court press at all of them.  it of course that's not what we did. we hired a guy who- no joke- couldn't even communicate with our players because they couldn't understand the words that were coming out of his mouth. unreal.

we then continued to be major, unbelievable, epic failures in the transfer market. we sold Gnabry, Wilshere, Alexis, Ozil, Ramsey, Koscielny, and like four other starters for a total of 3 quid and Henrikh Mikiyharuan. we then hired a rookie manager and again failed to bring in any world class players/sell our valuable players while they still have value. all of this falls on KSE and the board. all of it.

now, just now, as in, still-ongoing-right-now, we are finally spending some real cash, and doing so specifically for Mikel Arteta. to can him now is unthinkable. ive typed out 500 words on this mess, and none of them are in any sort of ardent support of Mikel- because it's not about him. that's what frustrates me with the Arteta-out crowd. if he sucks that bad then we will have a much, much easier time hiring a world class manager in May as opposed to the last week of August, seeing as we've spent the entire summer building a team specifically for Arteta, plus the fact that we have no available managers lined up and ready to take the job. the idea of firing Arteta is an absolute non starter at this moment in time. it sucks that this is where we are, but...we're here. all we can do now is hope that this team shows signs of growth and improvement as this season goes on. if we don't, then Mikel will be gone soon enough anyway. 

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GlenFromTheMailRoom

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1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

so those guys are all going to willingly hop on board the Kroenke Train, taking over a subpar squad that was just hand selected to be coached by Arteta, knowing full well that they have an uphill battle to get us back into the CL, that Wenger, Emery, and Arteta all failed to do so, and that Emery and Arteta were given only a couple of seasons (less than two seasons for Arteta) before they were fired. buddy, i don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. why in the fuck would any of those coaches want to step into that situation? "we just bought a bunch of players for Mikel Arteta and then we immediately fired him. please come take this job, and get us back into the CL next year, or you're fired too." yeah that sounds doable. 🙄 

the manager is not the problem. the problem is and always has been KSE. now that KSE has *finally* spent competitive money, you want to sack the guy who they just bought all the players for, immediately after buying them that is some completely nonsensical, short sighted, irrational, know-nothing fanboy shit. but uh, keep yelling and cussing and believing that the magical formula is to simply can the manager and suddenly everything is all better. clearly i can't stop you.

They’re not working.  Why the fuck would they not.?

the fact of the matter is is that arteta is getting out coached.  Bottom line.  He’s done by week 4.

If I’m the owner, and he trots out that dogshit after what they invested, questionable or not, youre goddamn right I’d be asking “what’s up” to the manager.

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Dutch

Dutch 4465

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22 hours ago, texanbychoice said:

It’s always darkest before the dawn.

Chins up, Derka.

Edit. Make that 30 years. Our worst manager overseeing our worst stretch since 1990 has won more silverware than Spurs. Man, y’all really are EPL aggy. 

Edited by Dutch
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