Catholic Church, mass unmarked graves and Canadian Indigenous people = Burning Churches

[crash_davis 23115]

I think this is the 3rd Catholic church to burn in the last month. This is from last night in Marinville.

Sounds like the Catholic Church leaders are apologizing but doesn't seem like the Indigenous people are buying it. Fucked up situation all around.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/248190/canadian-bishops-indigenous-leaders-will-meet-with-pope-in-december

 

According to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, a Canadian body set up to investigate abuses in the schools, at least 4,100 children died from “disease or accident” at the schools. One of the commission’s calls was for a formal papal apology for the Church’s role in the residential school system.

At the site of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School in British Columbia, the remains of 215 Indigenous children were discovered on the weekend of May 22 with ground-penetrating radar. It is unclear when or how the children died.

 

On June 24, Cowesses First Nation leaders announced that 751 unmarked graves had been discovered at the site of the former Marieval Indian Residential School.

[crash_davis 23115]

better context.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/canada-church-fires-first-nation-reserves

Quote

Two Catholic churches destroyed by fire on First Nations reserves in Canada

 Blazes occurred on National Indigenous Peoples Day

 Graves found at former Christian residential school last month

 

Firefighters’ jackets hang on the fence of the burned-out remnants of Sacred Heart church on the Penticton Indian Reserve, near Penticton, British Columbia, on Monday. Photograph: James Miller/AP

 

Leyland Cecco in Toronto

Tue 22 Jun 2021 14.59 EDT

 

•  
•  
•  

 

 

Two Catholic churches on First Nations reserves in western Canada have been destroyed by overnight fires that investigators are treating as suspicious.

Early Monday morning, fires consumed both the Sacred Heart church, on territory of the Penticton Indian Band and the St Gregory’s church, on the territory of the Osoyoos Indian Band. Both churches, constructed largely of wood, were more than a century old.

 

The fires, which occurred hours apart, happened on National Indigenous Peoples Day – and come nearly a month after the Tk’emlups te Secwepemc First Nation found what they believe are the remains of 215 children in unmarked graves at the site of a former residential school.

 

‘He was just a child’: dead of Indigenous residential schools haunt Canada

Read more

“We, along with the Osoyoos Indian Band … are in disbelief and anger over these occurrences as these places of worship provided service to members who sought comfort and solace in the church,” the Penticton Indian Band said in a statement. “Please do not approach our Indigenous members and ask how we feel about it. This is a fresh wound that needs time to heal and contextualize our feelings as we will support the investigative efforts.”

Police have not said the fires were arson, but a local fire chief said his team found liquid accelerant outside the charred remains of St Gregory’s.

The church burnings come amid growing calls for the Catholic church to formally apologize for their role in Canada’s residential school system, including from the Tk’emlups te Secwepemc First Nation.

For over a century, more than 150,000 Indigenous children in Canada were forced to attend Christian schools as part of a broader strategy to assimilate them into Canadian society. The schools, where physical and sexual abuse was rampant, were run by a number of churches and funded by the federal government.

Justin Trudeau has expressed frustration that Pope Francis has declined to offer an apology for the Catholic church’s role in residential schools.

“As a Catholic, I am deeply disappointed by the position that the Catholic church has taken now and over the past many years,” the prime minister said earlier this month. “We expect the church to step up and take responsibility for its role in this and be there to help with the grieving and healing, including with records.”

According to historical records, the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate ran half of Canada’s residential schools, including the one in Kamloops – the largest in the country. The Oblates have so far refused to release their records to help identify the remains found.

Police have not drawn any conclusions and want to “allow the facts and evidence to direct our investigative action”, RCMP sergeant Jason Bayda, said in a statement. “We are sensitive to the recent events, but won’t speculate on a motive.”

 

[Brisketexan 105346]

Not a good look.

But goddamn.....it's really, really hard to blame them (presuming that these fires are what they appear to be -- revenge arson).

The Catholic Church needs to figure out how to quickly and unconditionally accept responsibility for its past transgressions, apologize, and to atone for its sins.  You know, the exact sequence the church makes part of a SACRAMENT (reconciliation):

Quote

[The sacrament is one by which God] forgives sins committed after Baptism, when the sinner is heartily sorry for them, sincerely confesses them, and is willing to make satisfaction for them.

Just follow the same fucking script you wrote, RCC.

[atomheartbevo 89805]

58 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The Catholic Church needs to figure out how to quickly and unconditionally accept responsibility for its past transgressions, apologize, and to atone for its sins.  You know, the exact sequence the church makes part of a SACRAMENT (reconciliation):

Hey, they are meeting with the Pope in December, which is like next week, isn't it?

[Brisketexan 105346]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

Hey, they are meeting with the Pope in December, which is like next week, isn't it?

Yeah, I saw that date and......

[atomheartbevo 89805]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, I saw that date and......

At least the Catholic Church cares about them now, as much as they did a century ago!

I know the Pope is a busy guy and all, but I feel like if they hopped on a plane and showed up tomorrow, he could find 10 or 15 minutes  for them.

[burntorangebongos 10752]

So if they say Oops sorry, they are accepting financial liability? I guess that is why they won't follow the script.

[Pato del Muerto 52603]

First I’m hearing of anything untoward being done and then covered up by the Catholic Church. These people are followers of Christ!  They would never!

[crash_davis 23115]

so the lingering question. did they molest the boys before they starved them to death and buried them in mass graves?

Christ has to be pissed at what people are doing in his name.

[wildcat09 29393]

The Catholic Church really seems to like mass graves.

[Bernard 879]

The Catholic Church is the biggest organized crime syndicate / terrorist organization on the face of the Earth.

Bernard
(descended from a long line of Irish Catholics) 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Bernard

[Bernard 879]

Do churches carry fire insurance? If so, is that confirmation of a lack of actual faith? 🙂

Bernard

[Mole 4333]

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

[crash_davis 23115]

6 minutes ago, Mole said:

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

did some 9.95er write this. that's some hedging shit right there.

[Deej 76925]

49 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

so the lingering question. did they molest the boys before they starved them to death and buried them in mass graves?

 

Penn State:

[crash_davis 23115]

2 more.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dnyk/more-churches-torched-in-canada-as-outrage-against-catholics-grows?utm_source=reddit.com

 

[Parliament 14310]

No question the Catholic church has to atone for this...and sadly they'll probably only take half measures.  But I hope we all agree burning down churches is wrong.  Innocent people can die from it.

[F250 28822]

The RCC doesn't really accept responsibility for past transgressions, it's not really there thing. Confession for thee but not for me.

 

 

['stache 21871]

On 6/30/2021 at 3:41 PM, Brisketexan said:

Not a good look.

But goddamn.....it's really, really hard to blame them (presuming that these fires are what they appear to be -- revenge arson).

The Catholic Church needs to figure out how to quickly and unconditionally accept responsibility for its past transgressions, apologize, and to atone for its sins.  You know, the exact sequence the church makes part of a SACRAMENT (reconciliation):

Just follow the same fucking script you wrote, RCC.

['stache 21871]

36 minutes ago, Parliament said:

No question the Catholic church has to atone for this...and sadly they'll probably only take half measures.  But I hope we all agree burning down churches is wrong.  Innocent people can die from it.

I agree it's wrong, but if no innocent people were hurt, I'm struggling to find any fucks to give.

[crash_davis 23115]

39 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I agree it's wrong, but if no innocent people were hurt, I'm struggling to find any fucks to give.

I think he was joking since all those bodies in mass graves were kinda innocent.

[Wally Fairway 5587]

3 hours ago, Bernard said:

Bernard
(descended from a long line of Irish Catholics) 

me too - and it is a shameful past
good thing I was such and ugly kid; even the priest wouldn't touch me .....  too soon?

[BabaYaga 15320]

Wasn't there already a report on this?

-graves were from children who died at the school from epidemics and other diseases.
-the Canadian government would not provide the funds to return the bodies to their home.
-the schools could not afford it either so they gave them Christian burials and marked the graves with wooden crosses.
-after decades and decades the crosses have decayed and disappeared.

Not saying it's accurate, or a spin report from the church as a CYA?  Spanish flu was tearing through the country at the times the churches were most active, so the timelines coincide to a degree

[Brisketexan 105346]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Wasn't there already a report on this?

-graves were from children who died at the school from epidemics and other diseases.
-the Canadian government would not provide the funds to return the bodies to their home.
-the schools could not afford it either so they gave them Christian burials and marked the graves with wooden crosses.
-after decades and decades the crosses have decayed and disappeared.

Not saying it's accurate, or a spin report from the church as a CYA?  Spanish flu was tearing through the country at the times the churches were most active, so the timelines coincide to a degree

Maybe that's the case.  Maybe not.  I haven't seen much on those possibilities. But hell, even if they're true.....

Of course, the REASON that the kids were there in the first place is because they were forcibly taken from their families to have the "injun" trained/beaten out of them.  Literally state-sponsored, church-assisted genocide.  Destroying families, breaking hearts and spirits.  Which is, like, not okay.  Having them die, away from their home, and then just sticking them in a hole in the ground WITHOUT EVEN TELLING THE FAMILY WHAT HAPPENED is so cavalier and inhuman.....I mean, goddamn.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Brisketexan

[conVINCEd 21469]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Wasn't there already a report on this?

-graves were from children who died at the school from epidemics and other diseases.
-the Canadian government would not provide the funds to return the bodies to their home.
-the schools could not afford it either so they gave them Christian burials and marked the graves with wooden crosses.
-after decades and decades the crosses have decayed and disappeared.

Not saying it's accurate, or a spin report from the church as a CYA?  Spanish flu was tearing through the country at the times the churches were most active, so the timelines coincide to a degree

That may be right, but the Catholic Church lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

[BabaYaga 15320]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe that's the case.  Maybe not.  I haven't seen much on those possibilities. But hell, even if they're true.....

Of course, the REASON that the kids were there in the first place is because they were forcibly taken from their families to have the "injun" trained/beaten out of them.  Literally state-sponsored, church-assisted genocide.  Destroying families, breaking hearts and spirits.  Which is, like, not okay.  Having them die, away from their home, and then just sticking them in a hole in the ground WITHOUT EVEN TELLING THE FAMILY WHAT HAPPENED is so cavalier and inhuman.....I mean, goddamn.

All true.  Also a separate matter that is not insignificant, but different and hardly a justification for arson and destruction.  

[Brisketexan 105346]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

All true.  Also a separate matter that is not insignificant, but different and hardly a justification for arson and destruction.  

I don't disagree.  As Chris Rock once said, I aint' saying they should have done it....but I understand.

Man.....if an institution was a heavy player in the genocide of my people and my family.....and when called on it in what should be a more enlightened time, still hemmed and hawed and didn't accept full responsibility and work to make amends......it would be rather hard to resist the desire to literally burn it the fuck down.

[BabaYaga 15320]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't disagree.  As Chris Rock once said, I aint' saying they should have done it....but I understand.

Man.....if an institution was a heavy player in the genocide of my people and my family.....and when called on it in what should be a more enlightened time, still hemmed and hawed and didn't accept full responsibility and work to make amends......it would be rather hard to resist the desire to literally burn it the fuck down.

State funded mandatory attendance

This is the screwed up part

Quote

rom the 19th century until the 1970s, more than 150,000 indigenous children were required to attend state-funded Christian schools as part of a program to assimilate them into Canadian society.

They died, (apparently from disease) on church grounds, but the whole reason they were there was the govt MADE them go and had them shipped off.  Then when they died, wouldn't foot the bill to have the bodies returned so they were given (presumably) Christian burials in unmarked graves

Seems a few federal buildings need to get added to the pyre if this is accurate?

[RDCanecutter 26473]

Do a-little-bit-molesty priests ever go to real prison? All I read is that Father McTicklemonster gets passed around to a dozen other parishes, because I guess he has reciprocal dirt on Bishop GrabAsski and ArchBishop HeyDatSluttyKidWasAskinForIt.

Am I wrong? Do these child-molesters ever do prison time? Why the fuck not?

[BabaYaga 15320]

25 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

That may be right, but the Catholic Church lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

No doubt they have a metric shit ton of skeletons in their collective pedophile laden closets

[wildcat09 29393]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

State funded mandatory attendance

This is the screwed up part

They died, (apparently from disease) on church grounds, but the whole reason they were there was the govt MADE them go and had them shipped off.  Then when they died, wouldn't foot the bill to have the bodies returned so they were given (presumably) Christian burials in unmarked graves

Seems a few federal buildings need to get added to the pyre if this is accurate?

Passive tense doing a lot of work here.

[BabaYaga 15320]

Just now, RDCanecutter said:

Do a-little-bit-molesty priests ever go to real prison? All I read is that Father McTicklemonster gets passed around to a dozen other parishes, because I guess he has reciprocal dirt on Bishop GrabAsski and ArchBishop HeyDatSluttyKidWasAskinForIt.

Am I wrong? Do these child-molesters ever do prison time? Why the fuck not?

Church covers it up.  Fucked up.  NO convictions I am aware of?

[Brisketexan 105346]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

State funded mandatory attendance

This is the screwed up part

They died, (apparently from disease) on church grounds, but the whole reason they were there was the govt MADE them go and had them shipped off.  Then when they died, wouldn't foot the bill to have the bodies returned so they were given (presumably) Christian burials in unmarked graves

Seems a few federal buildings need to get added to the pyre if this is accurate?

No disagreement there, either.  And indigenous Canadians are rightly pissed as hell at the state and the commonwealth, too......

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/americas/canada-queen-victoria-elizabeth-toppled-intl/index.html

 

Even Trudeau had the good sense to say that maybe THIS Canada Day (yesterday), it shouldn't be a big old celebration, and perhaps should be a day for some real reflection on Canada's history.

So, yeah.....the State sure as shit gets their ire, and as I look at the toppled statue.....again, I ain't saying it's right, but I'm saying I understand.  These schools existed until 1996.  The wounds are still fresh as hell.  And the righteous anger is, too.

 

EDIT:

A great wrong was done.  It was an ongoing wrong, continuing until quite recently.  The actors responsible should apologize.  And there are a thousand resources on what an actual apology is, but they all look something like this:

 

Once conflict is created, there is no peace without accountability.  The Church, and Canada, know what they have to do.  The question is "will they do it?"  I ain't holding my breath.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Brisketexan

[Murfdogg21 4428]

Why is this so shocking and news to the indigenous people in 2021? Didn’t their grandparents and great grandparents know they had children die of plagues at these schools 70-100 years ago? It was always an atrocity but why the sudden outrage?

[crash_davis 23115]

1 minute ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Why is this so shocking and news to the indigenous people in 2021? Didn’t their grandparents and great grandparents know they had children die of plagues at these schools 70-100 years ago? It was always an atrocity but why the sudden outrage?

no bodies before. finding hundreds/thousands of bodies buried in a mass unmarked grave will rightly piss you off, but for real this time.

[Brisketexan 105346]

1 minute ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Didn’t their grandparents and great grandparents know they had children die of plagues at these schools 70-100 years ago?

Part of it is.....they DIDN'T know.  Their kids were taken by the state.  And they were essentially never heard from again.  The government and church didn't exactly send home quarterly report cards saying "John Eagle Feather progressed well in mathematics this past fall, and shows great promise on the basketball team.  And also, he died of an infectious disease and we buried him out back sometime in the spring."  Families didn't know what became of their children.  

And.....it wasn't all 70-100 years ago.  The residential school program ended a mere 25 years ago.

[BabaYaga 15320]

28 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Why is this so shocking and news to the indigenous people in 2021? Didn’t their grandparents and great grandparents know they had children die of plagues at these schools 70-100 years ago? It was always an atrocity but why the sudden outrage?

They knew.  Maybe not ALL, but many did.  Wikipedia is sketchy as a source, but it seems it happened quite often

Quote

Parents and family members regularly travelled to the schools, often camping outside to be closer to their children. So many parents made the trip that Indian Commissioner Hayter Reed argued that the schools should be moved farther from the reserves to make visiting more difficult.

He seems fun....

Quote

He also objected to allowing children to return home during school breaks and holidays because he believed the trips interrupted their assimilation.[47] Reed said in 1894 that the problem with day schools was that students returned home each night, where they were influenced by life on the reserve, whereas "in the boarding or industrial schools the pupils are removed for a long period from the leadings of this uncivilized life and receive constant care and attention".[21]:199

And this is always great to read about

Quote

Experimentation[edit]

Both academic research and the final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee relay evidence that students were included in several scientific research experiments without their knowledge, their consent or the consent of their parents.[33] These experiments include nutrition experiments[51] which involved intentional malnourishment of children, vaccine trials for the BCG vaccine,[52] as well as studies on extrasensory perception, vitamin D diet supplements, amebicides, isoniazid, hemoglobin, bedwetting, and dermatoglyphics.[33]

 

[Jiggy-Z 3435]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

That may be right, but the Catholic Church lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

Yeah.  This stuff keeps happening.  I remember when the first sex scandal broke and thought that would be the end of it until the second one broke.

Then you start looking back in time and start thinking abut this.  How many times has this happened over the centuries?  And what other secrets are in the closet?

The known stuff is pretty bad whether its the crusades, the inquisition (which nobody expected), sympathizing with the Nazis, arresting Galileo, etc.

How many catholic churches had BSA chapters?  I know mine did, and although I never made it out of cub scouts, I remember well the creepy scout building at the back of the church property.  Thank god we only had den mothers in cub scouts. 

[RomaVicta 30022]

Our history with this stuff is abysmal as well. We did them the favor of rescuing them from savagery by taking children from their families and tribes and sparsely funding the residential schools that would raise them to the grand level of the white man.

An account from OregonLive which confirms what I read in other sources as part of a project at work.

Quote

Starting in the late 1800s, social reformers posited that the so-called “Indian Problem” could be solved only through immersive assimilation. In practice, that ended up meaning removing Native American children from their communities and sending them to far-off boarding schools, where they were stripped of their language and culture, as well as blocked from almost all contact with relatives -- including their parents.

Quote

Boarding-school students also had almost no exposure in their formative years to family life, sometimes causing them difficulties when they started families of their own. And they often emerged from their schools to find themselves in a kind of cultural no-man’s-land -- not accepted in the larger, white-dominated society that continued to discriminate against them, but also now alienated from their own communities, at times not even sharing a language with parents or grandparents.

“Intergenerational trauma is still working its way through the community,” Kentta says.

The old caption on this was "children playing." The picture accompanies an article claiming rampant sexual abuse. I found it haunting in its starkness.

Even now, state agencies have been ordered to review procedures which lead to a disproportionate number of children being removed from tribes under claims of inadequate care. 

"Why do we have to hear about all of this again?" Because most of us don't know.

We now return to Hooray for the Red, White, and Blue.

We're not alone. England has movements to look at the truth about their empire. Imagine sifting through centuries of this shit.

Edited July 2, 2021 by RomaVicta

[Brisketexan 105346]

The Jesuits in the US are at least saying/calling for the right thing (not just in Canada, by the way.....a similar system in the US was the MODEL for what Canada did):

Quote

The Catholic Church must come clean—completely—about what it did to Native Americans

Canada’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission has helped all Canadians and First Nations communities grapple with the sorrowful realities of their nation’s colonial past, particularly the gruesome legacy of its residential schools for Indigenous children. Those schools, many administered by Catholic religious orders and intended to be engines of assimilation, became centers of despair and brutality.

The recent discovery of hundreds of unmarked graves at two schools, and the likelihood that thousands more will be found at other residential school sites, have added to the anguish. But at least in Canada, a foundation for healing is being laid by the government-sponsored truth and reconciliation commission.

No similar process has started in the United States, though many of the same outrages likely occurred on this side of the border, in the system of more than 350 Native American boarding schools in the 19th century that were the model for the Canadian network. And just as in Canada, the Catholic Church had a significant role in the administration of this “schooling,” which stripped Native American children of their languages and cultures.

Forgiveness and healing can begin only after the most difficult part is addressed: confronting the past, speaking the truth, revealing the worst.

Tweet this

Beginning in 1819 and continuing through 1969, the U.S. government provided the resources and logistical support for the schools, and religious groups, including the Catholic Church, were among the willing recipients. According to the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition, by 1926 there were 357 schools in 30 states with more than 60,000 children. Catholic religious orders here in the United States administered 84 of the schools. The Society of Jesus managed four of them.

The Department of Interior is for the first time in U.S. history being led by a Native American. Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland has ordered an investigation into the history of these schools and a search for graves of children who may have perished at them.

Announcing the initiative, Ms. Haaland said she hoped it would “shed light on the unspoken traumas of the past.”

“I know that this process will be long and difficult,” she said. “I know that this process will be painful. It won’t undo the heartbreak and loss that so many of us feel. But only by acknowledging the past can we work toward a future that we’re all proud to embrace.”

It will be difficult after so long to determine the cause of death for many of the children that will be found in such graves. Many of the deceased will surely be found to have perished because of diseases like tuberculosis, which likewise claimed many lives among the school children at residential schools in Canada. But identifying TB and other forms of “natural” mortality among these schoolchildren will not tell the full story.

A thorough review of surviving records will be important to help tease out individual stories and help build a broader narrative of mortality at the boarding schools. The church in the United States should make every effort now to prepare for this Department of Interior investigation and for the larger, comprehensive undertaking to unravel the complete history of the boarding schools and the church’s role in the mistreatment of these Indigenous children.

For decades the people of God were anguished by the obfuscation on the part of those church leaders who allowed only a trickle of incomplete document releases from diocesan and provincial archives while investigators struggled to get to the truth about the abuse of children by U.S. priests and the coverup of those crimes. The church in the United States must demonstrate that it has learned from the suffering such failures imposed on survivors, their families and Catholics everywhere.

Now is the time and here is the opportunity. As this preliminary investigation begins, the church must bring everything out into the light—completely and quickly. U.S. church officials should vigorously seek out and share the archives and material locked away in chanceries, academic archives and the attics of religious communities. Forgiveness and healing can begin only after the most difficult part is addressed: confronting the past, speaking the truth, revealing the worst.

https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/06/30/native-american-boarding-schools-catholic-church-investigation-240950?fbclid=IwAR0TnZMKol75IEVE_svJsLRrbj61vtAZdPRCDgWyLDyHkCgcuciYTKncD68

Reveal it.  All of it.  Own every single thing that was done wrong -- in the name of God, in the name of our nations.  It is the only morally acceptable path.

Will the church demonstrate that it has learned from its past missteps?  Will Canada and the US?

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Brisketexan

[BabaYaga 15320]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Our history with this stuff is abysmal as well.

This is the basis for Carl Sagan's stringent warnings about UFO's and advanced "visitors"......it NEVER goes well for the less developed group.  Ever....

['stache 21871]

I'm sure many died of disease, but it's well documented by now that, in addition to being taken and prevented from being with their families, they were beaten, starved, and abused in many other ways for things like talking an Indian language to a friend, playing a traditional game, or sometimes just for fun, because they're "savages" afterall. Not to mention that even with the disease part, paying for healthcare wasn't exactly a priortity for either the church or government. Probably gave them a cocaine soda and handed a rosary and if they die, well I guess it's god's punishment and just a symptom of their racial inferiority. The history here is dark as fuck, so yeah, I understand the anger, and appalled yet not even a little surprised that the church doesn't give a fuck.

Edited July 2, 2021 by 'stache

[Brisketexan 105346]

18 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I'm sure many died of disease, but it's well documented by now that, in addition to being taken and prevented from being with their families, they were beaten, starved, and abused in many other ways for things like talking an Indian language to a friend, playing a traditional game, or sometimes just for fun, because they're "savages" afterall. Not to mention that even with the disease part, paying for healthcare wasn't exactly a priortity for either the church or government. Probably gave them a cocaine soda and handed a rosary and if they die, well I guess it's god's punishment and just a symptom of their racial inferiority. The history here is dark as fuck, so yeah, I understand the anger, and appalled yet not even a little surprised that the church doesn't give a fuck.

It just all makes me so damned sad.  More than angry, sad.

Our institutions -- nations, churches, etc. -- have done some truly awful things to entire peoples/communities.  Some of it was ALWAYS unambiguously awful.  Some of it was -- at least ARGUABLY -- rationalized as being good at the time.  But across that spectrum, they are still awful things that were done by institutions that no only survive today, but that thrive.

Why is it so hard to say?  Why is it so hard to directly, and plainly, state and mean the words of a fundamental prayer:

Quote

I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and
in what I have failed to do,

My country created and maintained genocidal indigenous schools.  Numerous denominations (it's not just the Catholics, by the way) were actively complicit in this awful scheme.  Our country was wrong, and did a great wrong.  Canada was wrong, and did a great wrong.  The churches were wrong, and did a great wrong.

For fuck's sake, all of this hemming and hawign and refusal to straight up own this shit is as if Germany after WWII kept trying to rationalize or avoid responsibility for the Final Solution.  No, fuckers.  You did a horrible, awful thing.  Own it.  Accept responsibility.  And dedicate yourself to the effort of making sure it never happens again.

If America really was Great, that's what we would do.  If the churches really were an instrument of God, that's what they'd do.

They won't.  Because human beings learn nothing.

[Mole 4333]

Repenting and atoning for your sins and the sins of your forebearers is one of the most foundational beliefs of the Christian faith. Any church that refuses to do so when necessary attests to their own uselessness. A church that claims to teach the true faith but demonstrates total unbelief through actions is a social club. If you’re looking to join a social club, you’d be better off not joining one so demented.

Daniel Tiger has taught me that saying “I’m sorry” is the first step, then “how can I help?”

[UpperWestside 6190]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:41 PM, Brisketexan said:

Not a good look.

But goddamn.....it's really, really hard to blame them (presuming that these fires are what they appear to be -- revenge arson).

The Catholic Church needs to figure out how to quickly and unconditionally accept responsibility for its past transgressions, apologize, and to atone for its sins.  You know, the exact sequence the church makes part of a SACRAMENT (reconciliation):

Just follow the same fucking script you wrote, RCC.

So about these Indigenous groups…A quick summation on why it will be hard for them to receive what is due (Anything they are asking for is the right answer) to them.

They aren’t white and it is the Catholic Church we are talking about here. Jesus would get turned away by them if he showed up because, well, He looks more like the aggrieved in skin color than the aggressor.

[bolverk 29725]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

No disagreement there, either.  And indigenous Canadians are rightly pissed as hell at the state and the commonwealth, too......

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/americas/canada-queen-victoria-elizabeth-toppled-intl/index.html

 

Now they've gone and done it. Icono...er... @Macklemoreis gonna be pissed they toppled a statue of the queen.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

Burning beautiful historic architecture is never the answer. 

[Orale 1087]

27 minutes ago, Xian said:

Burning beautiful historic architecture is never the answer. 

[workswithseed 2111]

39 minutes ago, Orale said:

Fuck Lindbergh.

[Macklemore 2875]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

Now they've gone and done it. Icono...er... @Macklemoreis gonna be pissed they toppled a statue of the queen.

They should direct their anger towards the appropriate symbol. The Crown has nothing to do with Roman Popery and are proudly the defender of the true faith - the Church of England.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Macklemore