Fat People

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Education is the first show to drop, and why the fucking food pyramid probably killed more people than all our wars combined.  That's the easy part.  Then comes discipline.  That's the hard part.  Food tracking apps help a lot

Completely agree. But I don’t think folks should be so dismissive of the power of addiction.

[Basil 754]

I like how we're told it's impossible to lose weight long term for all but 2% but we have numerous people posting stories about how they did it and their stories are essentially all the same.

At 46, I just went under 200 lbs for the first time since law school. Similar formula. Quit drinking, started eating a little bit better. Went from 233 to 198 since January 1. My app says just quitting drinking has resulted in a net loss of 91,575 calories this year.

[tigol 2395]

Seriously though your gut has its own “ brain” — neuro endocrine axis that acts independent of and along with your brain. Adipose tissue plays a very active role in this process. This is where meds like ozempic work. It’s not as simple as watching portions and exercising (I mean it is as simple as that, but “that” is incredibly difficult if you are carrying significant excess adipose tissue). And it’s not as simple as just losing it. Once you have excess fat reserves it’s going to be a permanent battle. The adipocytes (fat cells) lose their store of triglycerides but the cells themselves stick around and work on that neuroendocrine gut axis. This is the biggest tragedy of childhood obesity. 
 
You can definitely be successful at long term weight loss without medication or surgery but they are absolutely valid treatment options, just like BP meds diabetes meds and antidepressants 

Thank you for your medically valid contribution.

[BabaYaga 15290]

19 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Completely agree. But I don’t think folks should be so dismissive of the power of addiction.

Neither should they be enabling.  

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Neither should they be enabling.  

I agree. But I haven’t seen any enabling here.

[Gatorubet 30213]

1 hour ago, pearlandhorn said:

We’re insensitive or are you too overly sensitive?

You don’t have to exercise to lose weight. Does your asthma prevent you from a 30 minute walk per day?

No. I do that.  My dog will sign the affidavit….but it will look like a dog signed it.   My BMI is 27-29.    I was using my inability to run as an example  for the general population.   I loved eating anything I wanted after a six mile run and still weighing 150.    

I might’ve been a bit too sensitive, but the general tone of the thread was more of a dump on non-super fit people theme

[pearlandhorn 3269]

Just now, Gatorubet said:

No. I do that.  My dog will sign the affidavit….but it will look like a dog signed it.   My BMI is 27-29.    I was using my inability to run as an example  for the general population.   I loved eating anything I wanted after a six mile run and still weighing 150.    

I might’ve been a bit too sensitive, but the general tone of the thread was more of a dump on non-super fit people theme

I get you and sorry if I came across as entitled. Was just explaining my journey.

 

[Basil 754]

Ah, that’s because a lot of former fats around here were just being lazy fats so they assume that getting lazy will I work for all fats.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Seriously though your gut has its own “ brain” — neuro endocrine axis that acts independent of and along with your brain. Adipose tissue plays a very active role in this process. This is where meds like ozempic work. It’s not as simple as watching portions and exercising (I mean it is as simple as that, but “that” is incredibly difficult if you are carrying significant excess adipose tissue). And it’s not as simple as just losing it. Once you have excess fat reserves it’s going to be a permanent battle. The adipocytes (fat cells) lose their store of triglycerides but the cells themselves stick around and work on that neuroendocrine gut axis. This is the biggest tragedy of childhood obesity. 
 

You can definitely be successful at long term weight loss without medication or surgery but they are absolutely valid treatment options, just like BP meds diabetes meds and antidepressants 

Nah. If you get surgery you are cheating and taking the easy way out and probably a pussy. 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

3 hours ago, Basil said:

At 46, I just went under 200 lbs for the first time since law school. Similar formula. Quit drinking, started eating a little bit better. Went from 233 to 198 since January 1. My app says just quitting drinking has resulted in a net loss of 91,575 calories this year.

We aren’t talking about the same thing. 233 is a dad bod. It’s probably not even over 30 on the bmi chart. You were a little bit overweight. Congrats on getting under 200 pounds. That’s cool. 

[mchookem 16327]

what i have learned from this thread is that former fat people can be just as judgey and disdainful as former smokers towards people who have not yet 'fixed' those problems themselves 😄

[ztejas 43418]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

We aren’t talking about the same thing. 233 is a dad bod. It’s probably not even over 30 on the bmi chart. You were a little bit overweight. Congrats on getting under 200 pounds. That’s cool. 

Maybe if you're 6'4" plus.

People carry weight differently and have varying muscle mass but 233 for anyone average heightish is pretty fat, dude. 

As far as the BMI chart goes - for me at 6'3" 233 is 29. 30+ is considered obese. Say you're a typical white man of 5'11"-6-1" or whatever and that's going to be in obese territory. 

Not trying to shame you or anyone else - but let's call a spade a spade. And I know you're working on getting in better shape.

Edited March 24, 2023 by ztejas

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Maybe if you're 6'4" plus.

People carry weight differently and have varying muscle mass but 233 for anyone average heightish is pretty fat, dude. 

As far as the BMI chart goes - for me at 6'3" 233 is 29. 30+ is considered obese. Say you're a typical white man of 5'11"-6-1" or whatever and that's going to be in obese territory. 

Not trying to shame you or anyone else - but let's call a spade a spade. And I know you're working on getting in better shape.

I bet 30 or 40% of the population is way more than that. The point is we aren’t talking about land whale or two seat belt or can’t ride the ride at 6 flags. We are talking run of the mill American. I was being sincere in congratulating him for his success but nobody is posting this thread about a middle aged dude at 233. That’s not the subject matter. 

[ztejas 43418]

16 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I bet 30 or 40% of the population is way more than that. The point is we aren’t talking about land whale or two seat belt or can’t ride the ride at 6 flags. We are talking run of the mill American. I was being sincere in congratulating him for his success but nobody is posting this thread about a middle aged dude at 233. That’s not the subject matter. 

Well it's the subject matter right now because we're discussing it. This was the first post in the thread:

Quote

 

I am well aware of the ongoing obesity problem but is this thing really starting to get out of hand?  I went to an Astros game last night - first stadium event post-pandemic - and a solid 1/3 of the people in my section were morbidly obese.  Like fat rolls all around and spilling over fat.  Another 40% were fat and/or overweight.  I'd say about 30% were what one would generally consider to be a normal body type.  Maybe it was just a bad random sample but I am still shaking my head at the 350-punder who ate a batting helmet full of nachos, used his finger to scrape and eat the leftover cheese and then busted out an insulin pen.

Note: I need to drop about 20 and am not some skinny guy gratuitously fat hating.

 

If you weigh 233 and aren't really tall or hitting bench and squats 5 times a week then you're fat.  You fall in that 2nd 40%. The thread is titled "fat people".

Not sure what I'm missing. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by ztejas

[tigol 2395]

Hell of a lot more compassion in the Alcoholics thread than this one.  Why is that?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Hell of a lot more compassion in the Alcoholics thread than this one.  Why is that?

I mean, I was trying to be a voice of reason. Forgot what site I was on.

[ztejas 43418]

13 minutes ago, tigol said:

Hell of a lot more compassion in the Alcoholics thread than this one.  Why is that?

 

4 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I mean, I was trying to be a voice of reason. Forgot what site I was on.

Around 70% of this country is overweight. Do you two think 70% of people are alcoholics? 

[tigol 2395]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Around 70% of this country is overweight. Do you two think 70% of people are alcoholics? 

I actually do think most Americans that drink have a problem with alcohol.  There is no way to safely drink and I wager that 70% of Americans drink.

[ztejas 43418]

4 minutes ago, tigol said:

I actually do think most Americans that drink have a problem with alcohol.  There is no way to safely drink and I wager that 70% of Americans drink.

I thought we were talking about alcoholics. The thread you referenced isn't the "post here if you drink" thread. 

I don't think every overweight person has a problem with food. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by ztejas

[tigol 2395]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

I thought we were talking about alcoholics. The thread you referenced isn't the "post here if you drink" thread. 

And you said overweight.

Again, I believe all drinking is unsafe and problematic.  There is no definition of an alcoholic.  It's self-diagnosed.

[ztejas 43418]

3 minutes ago, tigol said:

And you said overweight.

Again, I believe all drinking is unsafe and problematic.  There is no definition of an alcoholic.  It's self-diagnosed.

Alright. Um. Have a nice night I guess. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Around 70% of this country is overweight. Do you two think 70% of people are alcoholics? 

Goddamn it man. Why do we have to explain so much shit to you like a child. I never gave any stats. Go up thread and read. I agreed that MOST overweight people would be able to get healthy by following suggestions given by AB, Pearland and others. I merely stated that sugar addiction is real and it is probably part of the problem for others. Why are you the way you are?

[ztejas 43418]

3 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Goddamn it man. Why do we have to explain so much shit to you like a child. I never gave any stats. Go up thread and read. I agreed that MOST overweight people would be able to get healthy by following suggestions given by AB, Pearland and others. I merely stated that sugar addiction is real and it is probably part of the problem for others. Why are you the way you are?

You tacked on to someone bringing up the alcoholics thread. I don't think it's very difficult to understand the difference between that thread and a general thread about fat people in America. Maybe I need to explain some shit to you like you're a child. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

You tacked on to someone bringing up the alcoholics thread. I don't think it's very difficult to understand the difference between that thread and a general thread about fat people in America. Maybe I need to explain some shit to you like you're a child. 

Lulz. Both are addictions you jackass. That is the correlation I made. Yes explain it to me and while you’re at it give us that bad ass top 25 albums with blink 182.

[Sawbonz 27547]

can y’all go fuck up a different thread 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

can y’all go fuck up a different thread 

I mean my measured, empathetic replies weren’t appropriate? I wasn’t the one threadshitting.

[ztejas 43418]

3 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Lulz. Both are addictions you jackass.

One is a widespread public health issue that has just arisen in recent decades. One is a disorder that has affected a certain % of drinkers for thousands of years.

Are you intentionally being a dipshit? 

Also, we HAVE to eat food to survive. No one ever HAS to drink. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by ztejas

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

One is a widespread public health issue that has just arisen in recent decades. One is a disorder that has affected a certain % of drinkers for thousands of years.
Are you intentionally being a dipshit? 

Yes.

[Sawbonz 27547]

6 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I mean my measured, empathetic replies weren’t appropriate? I wasn’t the one threadshitting.

Disengage 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

The fact that you have to eat but don’t have to drink alcohol argued that alcoholics should get less tolerance than fat people. They could just avoid their vice, easy as can be. Fat people have to eat so it’s a thrice daily dance with the devil which has to happen for you to continue to live. No big deal. Take this thing you struggle with and you have to engage with it 3 times a day. 
It’s bizarre. 
Note for the slow out there- this is not an argument to shame alcoholics. 

[Sawbonz 27547]

Humans evolved in the setting of constant threat of starvation. Crops weren’t domesticated until around 10,000 years ago, followed closely by animals for food and work. Really until the late 19th century, humans were still at the mercy of the elements even in terms of domesticated food sources, not to mention storage and transport issues.  Even with plentiful food you may have not been able to afford it if you didn’t engage in subsistence farming 

 

Our bodies evolved to resist starvation, so any excess calories are hoarded, and the body will not part with them easily. Adipose tissue is a very key component of this adaptation. When you look at it that way it makes perfect sense why a society with such cheap, easily accessible calories would be full of obese people.  And you have to take it into account if you want to fix the problem, whether on an individual or population level

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Humans evolved in the setting of constant threat of starvation. Crops weren’t domesticated until around 10,000 years ago, followed closely by animals for food and work. Really until the late 19th century, humans were still at the mercy of the elements even in terms of domesticated food sources, not to mention storage and transport issues.  Even with plentiful food you may have not been able to afford it if you didn’t engage in subsistence farming 

 

Our bodies evolved to resist starvation, so any excess calories are hoarded, and the body will not part with them easily. Adipose tissue is a very key component of this adaptation. When you look at it that way it makes perfect sense why a society with such cheap, easily accessible calories would be full of obese people.  And you have to take it into account if you want to fix the problem, whether on an individual or population level

 

 

Thank you so much for actually bringing real facts and explanations to this discussion. 
 

[ztejas 43418]

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Humans evolved in the setting of constant threat of starvation. Crops weren’t domesticated until around 10,000 years ago, followed closely by animals for food and work. Really until the late 19th century, humans were still at the mercy of the elements even in terms of domesticated food sources, not to mention storage and transport issues.  Even with plentiful food you may have not been able to afford it if you didn’t engage in subsistence farming 

 

Our bodies evolved to resist starvation, so any excess calories are hoarded, and the body will not part with them easily. Adipose tissue is a very key component of this adaptation. When you look at it that way it makes perfect sense why a society with such cheap, easily accessible calories would be full of obese people.  And you have to take it into account if you want to fix the problem, whether on an individual or population level

 

 

This ignores the cultural (and socioeconomic) aspect of the equation, though. There are plenty of wealthy countries that can buy whatever bullshit food they want whenever they want that have nowhere near the obesity rates that America does. There are also plenty of Americans that aren't fat. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by ztejas

[Gatorubet 30213]

30 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Humans evolved in the setting of constant threat of starvation. Crops weren’t domesticated until around 10,000 years ago, followed closely by animals for food and work. Really until the late 19th century, humans were still at the mercy of the elements even in terms of domesticated food sources, not to mention storage and transport issues.  Even with plentiful food you may have not been able to afford it if you didn’t engage in subsistence farming 

 

Our bodies evolved to resist starvation, so any excess calories are hoarded, and the body will not part with them easily. Adipose tissue is a very key component of this adaptation. When you look at it that way it makes perfect sense why a society with such cheap, easily accessible calories would be full of obese people.  And you have to take it into account if you want to fix the problem, whether on an individual or population level

Steatopygia, holla!

[Sawbonz 27547]

18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

This ignores the cultural (and socioeconomic) aspect of the equation, though. There are plenty of wealthy countries that can buy whatever bullshit food they want whenever they want that have nowhere near the obesity rates that America does. There are also plenty of Americans that aren't fat. 

Biology for the most part is destiny. If you put on excess adipose tissue, you will have trouble shedding it and will have a high likelihood of regaining the shed weight. Of course there is genetic variability and thus some are more prone to put on excess weight than others, and can shed it more easily. And societal factors definitely play a role especially in putting on the excess weight in the first place. We drive everywhere, for instance, and buy our food in mass quantities or from restaurants that even with “shrinkflation”  give you a meal with close to if not more than your daily caloric requirement. But the science is becoming more and more clear wrt the mechanisms of obesity

[ztejas 43418]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If you put on excess adipose tissue

Keyword if. If you put on excess adipose tissue. You don't have to. In many societies and cultures people don't.

I don't think you're disagreeing with me - you're simply saying that once society (or an individual themselves) has enacted that snowball effect it is difficult to reverse. I think that's true. The question is how do we keep people from doing that in the first place? I think if people were more educated and practiced better food culture it would solve whatever % of the problem is equivalent to the % of people that aren't alcoholics. 

But maybe I need it explained to me like I'm a child @Patricio Swayze

[Sawbonz 27547]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You don't have to. In many societies and cultures people don't.

There are no societies that are not in the midst of a famine that don’t have fat people. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here but you have a good evening 

[Sawbonz 27547]

For some perspective 

 

 

Interactive map for obesity / overweight prevalence and trends

[Jkwellborn 6697]

No glossing over it at all.  I keep hammering the diet.  I also understand that some people have an emotional attachment to food that's hard to kick.
People also don't need a crazy diet.  Just be sensible and cut out the snacking and late night meals.    

I had gotten to about 280 last November. Staying up late, overeating, eating late and lots of snacking and sweet tea did it.

Got sick in December and lost right at 30lbs so far just because I started eating healthier with smaller portions and went back to drinking nothing but water with lemon.

I’ll add exercise soon.

[Rimbo 25921]

[ztejas 43418]

17 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

There are no societies that are not in the midst of a famine that don’t have fat people. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here but you have a good evening 

Dude I literally fucking addressed this. Are you not reading what I'm writing? 

22 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think if people were more educated and practiced better food culture it would solve whatever % of the problem is equivalent to the % of people that aren't alcoholics. 

Unless you think there are certain societies where individuals aren't alcoholic or otherwise addicted to non-food substances. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by ztejas

[Sawbonz 27547]

Why “willpower” isn’t enough for many (most?) people to sustain weight loss

 

In this review, we focus specifically on the adaptations in white adipose tissues that contribute to the biological drive to regain weight after weight loss

[ztejas 43418]

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

7 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

No. I do that.  My dog will sign the affidavit….but it will look like a dog signed it.   My BMI is 27-29.    I was using my inability to run as an example  for the general population.   I loved eating anything I wanted after a six mile run and still weighing 150.    

I might’ve been a bit too sensitive, but the general tone of the thread was more of a dump on non-super fit people theme

We're not talking about being super fit.  We're talking about how not being obese.  Just mix in some salads, grilled chicken, and go for a 30 minute walk.

I like how Wulaw is the expert on this thread about weight loss and he's 350 lbs or whatever.  Dude posts on here literally all day but doesn't have time for a 30 minute walk.

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Biology for the most part is destiny. If you put on excess adipose tissue, you will have trouble shedding it and will have a high likelihood of regaining the shed weight. Of course there is genetic variability and thus some are more prone to put on excess weight than others, and can shed it more easily. And societal factors definitely play a role especially in putting on the excess weight in the first place. We drive everywhere, for instance, and buy our food in mass quantities or from restaurants that even with “shrinkflation”  give you a meal with close to if not more than your daily caloric requirement. But the science is becoming more and more clear wrt the mechanisms of obesity

I appreciate your knowledge but I know literally dozens of people that used to be obese that aren't now.  If "biology is destiny," then how do you explain that?

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The fact that you have to eat but don’t have to drink alcohol argued that alcoholics should get less tolerance than fat people. They could just avoid their vice, easy as can be. Fat people have to eat so it’s a thrice daily dance with the devil which has to happen for you to continue to live. No big deal. Take this thing you struggle with and you have to engage with it 3 times a day. 
It’s bizarre. 
Note for the slow out there- this is not an argument to shame alcoholics. 

You have to eat but you don't have to eat trash.  Do you want me to start posting your food posts on here?  You eat like fucking ass and you smoke.  I hope you get better but you're a fucking beating on this.  You're a morbidly obese fat man who just had his stomach stapled lecturing people on what it takes to lose weight.

Stop acting like you're the expert on health.  

[ztejas 43418]

Dude @Patricio Swayze isn't going to like these posts. He may start another thread in the CR if you keep going.

[Snake Diggity 4621]

My initial reaction to pretty much anyone with pretty much any problem is always “just fix it”.  Almost all of people’s problems can be boiled down to discipline.  If alcoholics had the discipline not to drink, if smokers had the discipline to quit, if broke people had the discipline to manage their money, if fat people had the discipline to eat less, if dumbfucks had the discipline to educate themselves, the list goes on.

But the more you dig into all those problems the more you realize how complex they are, and how far back the root causes go, and it becomes really difficult to hold people accountable for their issues.

Most fat people are fat mostly thru no fault of their own.  Some combination of genetics, childhood trauma, and socioeconomics fucked them long before they started consciously evaluating their caloric intake and expenditures.

So what are we to do?  Do we just say “fuck it”, and nobody is held responsible for anything anymore?  Do we ignore all the mitigating factors and maintain the myth of self-determination?  I don’t have any good answers to that, but for now I fall somewhere in the middle.  All these factors behind these problems should be recognized, but also adults should ultimately be held accountable for their behavior.

I would be in favor of taxing the fuck out of processed foods and products with added sugars and oils and (further) subsidizing fresh fruits and veggies and high fiber foods.  Healthy food should be much cheaper and more available than unhealthy food.  An entire chicken should cost less than a bag of flaming hot Cheetos and a bunch of bananas should cost less than a can of Coke.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Snake Diggity

[South Austin 52463]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I would be in favor of taxing the fuck out of processed foods and products with added sugars and oils and (further) subsidizing fresh fruits and veggies and high fiber foods.  Healthy food should be much cheaper and more available than unhealthy food.  An entire chicken should cost less than a bag of flaming hot Cheetos and a bunch of bananas should cost less than a can of Coke.

That would help. But the giant conglomerates who supply all the processed unhealthy crap will never let that happen. They can drop $7 million for a 30-second add during the Super Bowl like it’s nothing. They’ll pony up plenty more in Congress to smother any excise taxes or subsidies for healthier foods.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

8 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

You have to eat but you don't have to eat trash.  Do you want me to start posting your food posts on here?  You eat like fucking ass and you smoke.  I hope you get better but you're a fucking beating on this.  You're a morbidly obese fat man who just had his stomach stapled lecturing people on what it takes to lose weight.

Stop acting like you're the expert on health.  

You are a ducking dickhead that lost  40 pounds once upon a time and think that anyone in any other situation that can’t suck it up and do what you did is sub human trash. Go fuck yourself fucking prick. I’m literally not arguing or telling anyone how to be healthy I’m saying that fat people are people too, they deserve compassion not scorn, and the numbers and science say it’s hard. 
literally that’s it. Now go fuck off you worthless fucking prick.