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Posted
6 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Quitting drinking is as easy as not ingesting alcohol any longer, and yet many people don’t really have “choice” in the same way that others do, and there are a lot of reasons for that. It’s not helpful for non-alcoholics to simply profess that people who can’t seem to put the bottle down are choosing not to and are morally or otherwise weak, and it also displays their own ignorance on the subject. For folks who get a lot of pride out of beating that drum, it speaks to their character as well.

But the path to sobriety also involves rigorous accountability.

I’m not addicted to food, but I always imagine it is exactly like that for some people. And I’m guessing the problem with some rx drugs is that they give you an insatiable appetite? And of course there’s the problem that the easiest diet to eat in America will kill you.

 

While recognizing that I don’t have a food addiction, I do think that part of what made losing weight for me very easy this time around is the amount of practice I have shutting out that voice in my head screaming for the thing.

I get this analogy but I've never been sure that it's a very good one. You have to eat to live. You don't need alcohol to live. 

Maybe that makes food addiction even harder to deal with? Idk. 

Posted (edited)

“Fat is a choice,” is ostensibly correct but leaves out a lot and is terribly oversimplified.

Work 9-5, gym membership, Whole Foods delivery makes living lean a bit easier of a choice than someone who works irregularly and hasta drive across town to buy vegetables.  Yes, certainly that person and “choose to not be fat,” but it comes significantly harder.

Not gonna Stan for the fats, but the complexity of the issue is far beyond the mental capabilities of most Surly posters.

Now I gotta hang up.  Personal chef gonna be here shortly.

Edited by Parliament
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Posted

15 years ago I was 6'1 and 202 lbs. I told my wife I was a fat fucking slob & came up with a plan to make better choices and lose at least 20 lbs.

I became enraptured by my success and lost 40. I was down to my high school weight. I thought I looked great. My wife gave me a healthy dose of reality

Since then, I've found my best weight to be simple: 2nd digit should be a 7.

Good luck to everyone on the journey. But if you think your obesity is out of your own control, you're gonna have a longer trail.

Years ago, I said on this thread or a similar one that there's nothing easier to do than lose weight. I still stand by it. Eat less. Exercise more. Follow a supervised plan & you will get the desired results.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

“I stopped drinking and lost 80 pounds in 2 weeks.” - everyone on Surly

I stopped drinking and stopped being a drunk.  Didn't lose much weight.  I was 30 though.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
7 hours ago, Post Oak said:

If you have a bad day get back to the routine tomorrow

this is such a huge deal. for me this is bacially the entire deal. every time i’ve turned my health around i’ve basically been a jolly, happy-go-lucky robot who lives every day by the same routine. if people who want to lose weight/get healthy have things preventing them from keeping a routine (unstable work hours, kids, in my case severe sleep issues) it makes the entire process almost undoable. there’s never been a time where i lost a significant amount of weight/improved my health without adhering to a daily routine. which again, is another example of losing weight not being as simple as, “just choose to do it.”

Posted
12 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I get this analogy but I've never been sure that it's a very good one. You have to eat to live. You don't need alcohol to live. 

Maybe that makes food addiction even harder to deal with? Idk. 

It does.  A lot of folks, me included to a degree, have to remind them/ourselves that food is sustenance.  It can be pleasurable, but that's not the main intention or necessity.  Making that an intrinsic part of your eating habits can make a big difference as to food choices and portion control.

 

Posted
6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I stopped drinking and stopped being a drunk.  Didn't lose much weight.  I was 30 though.

Man, I did. I was 45, though. When you’re hungover, nothing sounds better than a gas station pizza. 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I get this analogy but I've never been sure that it's a very good one. You have to eat to live. You don't need alcohol to live. 

Maybe that makes food addiction even harder to deal with? Idk. 

I see your point but I don’t agree with it.
You need to drink to live. Water is different than alcohol. You need to eat to live.  Fresh fruits and vegetables are different than Burger King. 

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Posted (edited)

i do not claim to know or understand the science behind this, but from talking to my dietician i’ve learned that beyond just the empty calories, there’s something in alcohol that has an effect on the calorie burning chain of events, and that imbibing more or less moves fat even further towards the back of the line when it comes to what the body will burn for energy.

so, from my own anecdotal experience, i feel like there are people who drink whose metabolism is still pretty kickass, and when they quit drinking they just get back the empty calories. and then there are the people whose metabolism was affected by the drinking, and when they quit drinking they just shed pounds for 2-3 straight months because of the reduction in calories, the improved metabolism, and the assumed reduction in food calories/binge eating from no longer getting drunk.

Edited by Derka
Posted
2 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I see your point but I don’t agree with it.
You need to drink to live. Water is different than alcohol. You need to eat to live.  Fresh fruits and vegetables are different than Burger King. 

I don't agree with the way you restated it. 

Alcohol is a heavy, heavy mind-altering drug. Water isn't. 

Fruits and vegetables (fruits aren't very good for you, btw) affect your brain chemistry differently than Popeye's does but it's still very comparable. 

I'm all ears though I think it's an interesting comp and I could be wrong. 

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

And I’m guessing the problem with some rx drugs is that they give you an insatiable appetite?

i’ve been on rx drugs where i chased that purple dragon all night long, but then ive also had drugs (benzos/anti anxiety) that seem to take me from “im totally full and satisfied, i just had a big meal”, to, “i think i should make some macaroni and cheese with pizza rolls in it” in about half an hour. rx drugs are some powerful shit.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Derka said:

i do not claim to know or understand the science behind this, but from talking to my dietician i’ve learned that beyond just the empty calories, there’s something in alcohol that has an effect on the calorie burning chain of events, and that imbibing more or less moves fat even further towards the back of like when it comes ti what the body will burn for energy.

so, from my own anecdotal experience, i feel like there are people who drink whose metabolism is still pretty kickass, and when they quit drinking they just get back the empty calories. and then there are the people whose metabolism was affected by the drinking, and when they quit drink king they just shed pounds 2-3 straight months because of the reduction in calories, the improved metabolism, and the assumed reduction in food calories/binge eating from no longer getting drunk.

I think it's still just calories in vs. out. The first time I went to rehab I was a fat, out-of-shape sack of shit that was drinking a lot of high-calorie beer and wine. I lost 25 pounds in like a month. And I was eating whatever I wanted. Drinking cokes. Eating candy. Idk. 

1 minute ago, Derka said:

i’ve been on rx drugs where i chased that purple dragon all night long, but then ive also had drugs (benzos/anti anxiety) that seem to take me from “im totally full and satisfied, i just had a big meal”, to, “i think i should make some macaroni and cheese with pizza rolls in it” in about half an hour. rx drugs are some powerful shit.

Benzo munchies are insane lol. You'll eat until you throw up. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't agree with the way you restated it. 

Alcohol is a heavy, heavy mind-altering drug. Water isn't. 

Fruits and vegetables (fruits aren't very good for you, btw) affect your brain chemistry differently than Popeye's does but it's still very comparable. 

I'm all ears though I think it's an interesting comp and I could be wrong. 

I think it’s in the dopamine. I think certain people get an insatiable craving for a second drink, a second hit, or a second helping of cheesy hash browns. The dopamine doesn’t come from iced tea, nor does it come from a banana. 
I think we as substance abusers of whatever nature place our lives on the line of whether we can come to terms with the dopamine being stronger than our own willpower, and take steps for the rest of our lives to avoid it. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Kennythetiger said:

I think it’s in the dopamine. I think certain people get an insatiable craving for a second drink, a second hit, or a second helping of cheesy hash browns. The dopamine doesn’t come from iced tea, nor does it come from a banana. 
I think we as substance abusers of whatever nature place our lives on the line of whether we can come to terms with the dopamine being stronger than our own willpower, and take steps for the rest of our lives to avoid it. 

You're arguing for me, here, though. You don't NEED a second drink or second hit. Meanwhile I can live off of cheesy hash browns and I can do so in moderation without getting fat. 

It's a different equation. 

The dopamine hit for food is intrinsically linked to survival. It isn't that way for booze or fent or gambling or whatever. 

Like I'm saying - maybe that makes it harder to deal with. All I'm saying is that by default I think it's fundamentally different than being an alcoholic or wev. 

Posted

I *think* i remember getting down to about 175 at some point in college and I got down to about 175 after rehab (at 30) as well. I wasn't really eating food anymore in late stage alcoholism, i couldn't stomach it. And so my appetite was all weird and I mostly ate cereal and salad bar. I think if I just *had* a salad bar available all the time it'd be easy to eat well.

Anyways, I'm sure a food addiction is complicated by not being able to abstain from food.  I couldn't drink just a little bit, that's kinda one of the first things you have to deal with in recovery. I think from the little reading about and talking to I've done with people who have big food issues, it sounds like addiction stuff to me.

Kids was raised as a reason why people might not be able to stick to a good diet, and I'll raise again the thing that i discovered, which was that I could structure good choices in a way where the good choice solved the same problem that was being solved by bad choices. I had to stop snacking and make some different choices and what have yous but really for me, I enjoy the cup yogurt/scoop protein powder/tbsp peanut butter powder/bigasshandful of spinach/banana/handful of frozne strawberries/bunch of ice cubes/vitamix goes brrrrrt even more than I enjoyed the grilled cheese sandwich and plate of chips or whatever shitty thing I used to grab for lunch because I don't have any time or emotional energy to make a plan. I had to get into the habit of not eating every time I got the urge to eat. I've discovered that being pretty hungry for every meal makes most food really delicious, so whatever thing it is the wife wants to do for dinner these days is usually great. And I discovered that i'd been fucking myself up by being afraid of counting calories and stepping on a scale every day. It is not that big of a deal (for me, non food problem having person) and I can budget whatever choice I want to make and most of all I *know* quantitatively what it is that I'm doing and I can see the number change on the other side. Which of course is also a big deal because it took a few weeks for my pants to get loose and for me to really be able to tell that I looked any different.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I think from the little reading about and talking to I've done with people who have big food issues, it sounds like addiction stuff to me.

It absolutely is. And I don't want anyone to think that I'm diminishing a problem with food and acting like it isn't as serious as alcohol/drug addiction. I have empathy for those struggling with overeating just like I have empathy for, well, everyone. 

I just think it's a different issue that needs to be addressed differently. 

8 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Kids was raised as a reason why people might not be able to stick to a good diet, and I'll raise again the thing that i discovered, which was that I could structure good choices in a way where the good choice solved the same problem that was being solved by bad choices. I had to stop snacking and make some different choices and what have yous but really for me, I enjoy the cup yogurt/scoop protein powder/tbsp peanut butter powder/bigasshandful of spinach/banana/handful of frozne strawberries/bunch of ice cubes/vitamix goes brrrrrt even more than I enjoyed the grilled cheese sandwich and plate of chips or whatever shitty thing I used to grab for lunch because I don't have any time or emotional energy to make a plan. I had to get into the habit of not eating every time I got the urge to eat. I've discovered that being pretty hungry for every meal makes most food really delicious, so whatever thing it is the wife wants to do for dinner these days is usually great. And I discovered that i'd been fucking myself up by being afraid of counting calories and stepping on a scale every day. It is not that big of a deal (for me, non food problem having person) and I can budget whatever choice I want to make and most of all I *know* quantitatively what it is that I'm doing and I can see the number change on the other side. Which of course is also a big deal because it took a few weeks for my pants to get loose and for me to really be able to tell that I looked any different.

Of course. All of this shit is easy(ish) for you just like it's easy for non-alcoholics to not have 14 drinks after they have their first. 

🤷

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I get this analogy but I've never been sure that it's a very good one. You have to eat to live. You don't need alcohol to live. 

Maybe that makes food addiction even harder to deal with? Idk. 

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Man, I did. I was 45, though. When you’re hungover, nothing sounds better than a gas station pizza. 

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Edited by elfenix
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Posted
Of course. All of this shit is easy(ish) for you just like it's easy for non-alcoholics to not have 14 drinks after they have their first. 


Definitely not easy, but both can be done and are done every day.
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Posted

Not sure what percent of the population has a food addiction, but I definitely think it is real. My FIL, the one that had the quadruple bypass, is a prime example.

Really nice guy but his life is dictated by food. It’s all he thinks about. If we have a healthy meal, he will become visibly depressed like it ruined his day. He has a sentimental attachment to food and associates it with family members that have passed away. It’s almost like he feels like he would be abandoning his culture (white, southern) to eat a different way even some of the time.

I first realized it was a problem when we were going on a camping/hunting trip with some of the guys in his extended family. We went to the grocery store and bought somewhere in the neighborhood of 10x what we actually needed. It’s almost like he’s blind to what an appropriate amount of food is.

He almost lost his life because of it and was very lucky to recover but it has done nothing to change his diet. Last night we had breaded and fried pork cops covered in gravy. He also sneaks out of the house to get fast food.

All of this screams addiction to me but his wife has the most control of the situation and she’s an enabler. White southern men his age don’t exactly go to therapy, but he needed professional help 10-20 years ago. 

Would be interested to see if anybody connects with this on a personal level or has some insight. 

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