Fat People

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Wulaw, I hope this isn’t misconstrued, but I don’t think this is a healthy thread to be in. I wish you good luck on your journey and hope you get to where you need to be.

[Celery Man 20934]

48 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

My initial reaction to pretty much anyone with pretty much any problem is always “just fix it”.  Almost all of people’s problems can be boiled down to discipline.  If alcoholics had the discipline not to drink, if smokers had the discipline to quit, if broke people had the discipline to manage their money, if fat people had the discipline to eat less, if dumbfucks had the discipline to educate themselves, the list goes on.

But the more you dig into all those problems the more you realize how complex they are, and how far back the root causes go, and it becomes really difficult to hold people accountable for their issues.

Most fat people are fat mostly thru no fault of their own.  Some combination of genetics, childhood trauma, and socioeconomics fucked them long before they started consciously evaluating their caloric intake and expenditures.

So what are we to do?  Do we just say “fuck it”, and nobody is held responsible for anything anymore?  Do we ignore all the mitigating factors and maintain the myth of self-determination?  I don’t have any good answers to that, but for now I fall somewhere in the middle.  All these factors behind these problems should be recognized, but also adults should ultimately be held accountable for their behavior.

I would be in favor of taxing the fuck out of processed foods and products with added sugars and oils and (further) subsidizing fresh fruits and veggies and high fiber foods.  Healthy food should be much cheaper and more available than unhealthy food.  An entire chicken should cost less than a bag of flaming hot Cheetos and a bunch of bananas should cost less than a can of Coke.

i was thinking "fuck you, moron" at your first paragraph but of course that was the setup to a very good post.

Problems like "people be fat" are complicated and multifaceted, really on both the macro scale and the micro scale. It is never surprising to see who leaps at the opportunity to insist that things are simple and those who can't do the simple things (like simply not drink or simply not eat) just aren't smart/good/disciplined enough (like they are). Although I'm not really directing that comment at you Aqua.

The whole reason that groups like Alcoholics Anonymous exist for the booze problem is because it just really is not as simple as "don't drink". It is hard to explain exactly why each little thing is important in that whole framework for recovery because it is a holistic solution to a complex mental and physiological problem. There also does exist the... I won't call it a problem but the "thing" in AA where there's a difference between alcoholics and heavy drinkers who needed to work out and get laid. And the people insisting that it is as simple as getting out of your funk and choosing to put down the drink (because that's what worked for them!) hijack the discussion to talk about a their problem, which is really not the same thing as alcoholism.

Anyways, lot of parallels there. I feel like if you were going to make an analogy between obesity and alcoholism, it would be something like... if cultural and economic factors made it such that 80% of the alcohol on the market was OG 4loko, what would the state of alcoholism and problem drinking be in this country.

[South Austin 52463]

3 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Most fat people are fat mostly thru no fault of their own.  Some combination of genetics, childhood trauma, and socioeconomics fucked them long before they started consciously evaluating their caloric intake and expenditures.

Also, this is very much true. 

I’m a child of the 70s and 80s, which I see as the generational advent of the food industry’s mass production and marketing of shitty processed foods, with the stamp of legitimacy from the federal government. My mom made pretty healthy meals growing up, but as young kids we dined on Spaghetti O’s and the like, and there was also an abundance of crap like Doritos and Cokes in our house, which me and my kid brother heavily consumed from walking through high school, not to mention the horrendous school lunches.

But I fully recognize that we just don’t have the genetics that many obese folks do, and despite a childhood environment that included a fair amount of junk food, we’ve been rail thin for most of our lives. From the outside, I can’t tell how much of our obese population is burdened with just bad genetics or other physiological traits beyond their control, but I’m sure it’s a significant percentage. 

Is there some measure of personal accountability? Sure there is. But in addition to genetics, I also recognize that despite recent awareness and education on healthy eating and fitness, we still live in a culture that constantly tells us, “Here, eat some more of this shit!” And that’s incredibly powerful. The analogy to the tobacco industry is a good one.

So when I comment on what I saw at Universal Studios (I’m not sure if it started this recent discussion, and I didn’t mean to come off as insensitive to the issues above), it was more of a note about one more way our society has been failing its citizenry and heading in a very bad direction.

Edited March 24, 2023 by South Austin

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Why “willpower” isn’t enough for many (most?) people to sustain weight loss

 

In this review, we focus specifically on the adaptations in white adipose tissues that contribute to the biological drive to regain weight after weight loss

Thank you so much for posting this and all your other posts on the science behind it. I read some of that stuff and it’s like looking in a mirror and the lightbulb goes off and I say- so that’s why (on a Biological level) I did what I did. That’s why it was so hard. That’s why I tried and failed so many times. The deck really was stacked against me once I got morbidly obese the first time. 
I don’t think any of the people in here taking shots at fat people understand the self loathing that the typical fat person has for themselves for not being able to get it under control. The alcoholics no doubt do. But reading this allows some of the self loathing to wash away. It allows me to forgive myself for all my failures. It allows me to come to grips with the idea that I really did need the surgery to fight against the biological cravings of my body. It explains why no matter how well I was doing on my change I’d have dreams about eating pizza and every waking moment my body would be screaming at me “we need to eat and we need to eat right damn now.”  
Thanks for all your awesome and informative and compassionate posts. Truly. 

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You are a ducking dickhead that lost  40 pounds once upon a time and think that anyone in any other situation that can’t suck it up and do what you did is sub human trash. Go fuck yourself fucking prick. I’m literally not arguing or telling anyone how to be healthy I’m saying that fat people are people too, they deserve compassion not scorn, and the numbers and science say it’s hard. 
literally that’s it. Now go fuck off you worthless fucking prick. 

I'm just telling you how not to be fat.  I lost 40 pounds and kept it off and you keep saying that's impossible.  You post on here literally all day but somehow don't have time for a 30 minute walk.  When was the last time you stuck with an exercise plan for longer than 30 days?

Like I said, you are not the expert on how to not be fat.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Aqua Buddha

[BabaYaga 15290]

If you want to see the moth of all transformations executed through sheer bad-assery, check out Ethan Suplee.  Guy was north of 550bs, and now is jacked and around 255 with 11% bodyfat

Suplee is a beast

Quote

"The main thing I had to do was make sure I didn’t eat more calories than I expended each day. And guess what? Foods that were nutritious — dark leafy greens, chicken, salmon — also tended to be much lower in calories than, say, a two-patty Super Star," he shared. "As I became more calorie conscious, I started to binge less and fill up on healthier foods. After a few months of this, calories stopped being calories. They started being food."

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

I probably started all this when I posted the articles on the science of the diabetes drugs (ozempic etc.) and the newer theory/science around how fat people are fat, so for that I apologize, because clearly being fat or a former fat is very personal and emotional for a lot of you. If you are being triggered one way or another (e.g. defensive and hurt like Wulaw or offensive and mean like aqua Buddha), this is probably not a healthy thread.

However, I still think it’s very interesting and worth discussing.

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

We keep hearing the comparison to alcoholism so let's look at that.

We've all known alcoholics but let's just look at the alcoholic thread on here.  It's one of the best, quite frankly.  I learn something every time I go there.  It's helped me learn that I'm not an alcoholic, for example.  There are some great and informative posts over there from alcoholics who have been clean and sober for years but you know what?  They're harsh.  They're right but they're harsh and in some cases, more harsh than anything I've said on here.

If someone was posting all over the beer, wine, bourbon, or high threads and then kept posting on the alcoholic thread about how is sucks to be an alcoholic, they'd have their ass chewed, and rightfully so.  They also wouldn't lecture the sober people about how hard it is to quit drinking.  No shit.  They know that.  

The sober people there will you how to get sober and wouldn't tolerate the excuses.  All ya'll motherfuckers know I'm right, too.

I swear, we've over indexed on this subject.  We went from body shaming a woman for an extra 20 pounds to now saying Lizzo is perfectly healthy.  

 

 

 

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

29 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

If you want to see the moth of all transformations executed through sheer bad-assery, check out Ethan Suplee.  Guy was north of 550bs, and now is jacked and around 255 with 11% bodyfat

Suplee is a beast

 

I hadn't head that story before.  I loved this quote.  Everyone on here should read that link.  They won't, though.  Even if they did, it wouldn't matter.

Suplee was following a very low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet when he landed on Isratel’s TED Talk in 2018 and had a life-changing epiphany. It wasn't what he was eating, it was how much he was eating.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:39 PM, rage-a-holic said:

🤘 you're one of the few. I get a good laugh reading mexico FB travel group posts from people sneaking back 40 liters of "Mexican Coke" that is identical to the US stuff.

When did the switch happen? I never knew that the plastic bottles were ever different than the American stuff. I always thought it was just the glass bottles so I probably screwed myself a ton over the years in Old Mehico.

[Celery Man 20934]

9 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

We went from body shaming a woman for an extra 20 pounds to now saying Lizzo is perfectly healthy.  

the sentiment exists but is very minority. the reality is that we are somewhere between "a 1960 barbie doll is a perfectly healthy body image for a young girl to aspire to" and "lizzo is physically fit", and neither of those poles are a good place to be.

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

It should be noted that these weight loss stories involving large amounts of weight don't happen overnight.  I would imagine Suplee took years.  The people I know personally that lost a large amount of weight and now run half marathons or something, it took on average 4-5 years with them.

The key to any workout plan is the first 30 days.  If you stick with it that long, it starts to become a habit.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

22 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I personally couldn’t subsist on this plate of food 5 times a day without help. If you can good for you and congrats. 

 

I'm a big fan of yours and love watching your journey, but I think there may be some confusion on what "we" eat in the "normal" BMI range. I'm privileged enough to be able to go home and cook myself lunch every day and using yesterday as an example I had....

an omelet that consisted of

- 3 whole eggs

- 6oz of grilled chicken

- 4 thin strips of bacon

- handful of spinach

- Mexican taco seasoning

That produced a fucking big ass omelet that took up an entire 10" plate and was 630 calories and had 62g of protein. Now I'm manlet sized in height so somebody taller could easily throw in another egg and some meat and be in the same boat relative to their height. It isn't that hard to get full when eating real food, but of course that's a different battle than being addicted to sugar or whatvever.  I know some people can eat grilled chicken and veggies for every meal, but that's not me and there are easy alternatives if you have the ability to cook a lot. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but I hate the stigma out there that eating healthy means you aren't eating anything and starving all the time. 

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

22 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I'm a big fan of yours and love watching your journey, but I think there may be some confusion on what "we" eat in the "normal" BMI range. I'm privileged enough to be able to go home and cook myself lunch every day and using yesterday as an example I had....

an omelet that consisted of

- 3 whole eggs

- 6oz of grilled chicken

- 4 thin strips of bacon

- handful of spinach

- Mexican taco seasoning

That produced a fucking big ass omelet that took up an entire 10" plate and was 630 calories and had 62g of protein. Now I'm manlet sized in height so somebody taller could easily throw in another egg and some meat and be in the same boat relative to their height. It isn't that hard to get full when eating real food, but of course that's a different battle than being addicted to sugar or whatvever.  I know some people can eat grilled chicken and veggies for every meal, but that's not me and there are easy alternatives if you have the ability to cook a lot. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but I hate the stigma out there that eating healthy means you aren't eating anything and starving all the time. 

Great point.  It's why fad diets or harsh diets are bad.  They're just not sustainable.

If you have even a moderate workout regimen of 3-5 days a week of doing something (running, biking, lifting, etc.) you can a fairly normal diet within reason.  I could probably drop another 20 if I stopped drinking and went on some strict diet but I just don't want to.

 

[Brothahorn 10087]

Great point.  It's why fad diets or harsh diets are bad.  They're just not sustainable.
If you have even a moderate workout regimen of 3-5 days a week of doing something (running, biking, lifting, etc.) you can a fairly normal diet within reason.  I could probably drop another 20 if I stopped drinking and went on some strict diet but I just don't want to.
 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Sawbonez or any other medical professional (and sorry if you covered it already an I missed it), but how does hormones factor into this whole equation? I mean I know it does, but to what extent? Is it the practice of doctors to test all that prior to the surgical intervention?

[Sawbonz 27546]

12 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I appreciate your knowledge but I know literally dozens of people that used to be obese that aren't now.  If "biology is destiny," then how do you explain that?

I’m sure I know dozens who have as well. It doesn’t change the evidence that the majority of people regain the weight,  and often additional weight on top of that.
 

Not sure why you left off my qualifier “for the most part.” Of course people can overcome genetic predispositions toward obesity, but there bodies are literally resisting their efforts at the cellular and neuronal levels.
 

And of course many people have favorable genetic traits that resist obesity. They might be fucked in a famine, but currently such traits are beneficial 

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m sure I know dozens who have as well. It doesn’t change the evidence that the majority of people regain the weight,  and often additional weight on top of that.
 

Not sure why you left off my qualifier “for the most part.” Of course people can overcome genetic predispositions toward obesity, but there bodies are literally resisting their efforts at the cellular and neuronal levels.
 

And of course many people have favorable genetic traits that resist obesity. They might be fucked in a famine, but currently such traits are beneficial 

It's been my experience they put the weight back on because they go back to prior behavior.  A good example is the Suplee story up thread.  He'd always go back to what he did before until he realized it wasn't what he was eating but how much he was eating.

The fat guy in my marathon story lost about 100 lbs but gained it all back because he went bo eating +5 Big Mac's at a time.  The Big Macs had more to do with any sort of genetics.

[Sawbonz 27546]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

It's been my experience they put the weight back on because they go back to prior behavior.  A good example is the Suplee story up thread.  He'd always go back to what he did before until he realized it wasn't what he was eating but how much he was eating.

The fat guy in my marathon story lost about 100 lbs but gained it all back because he went bo eating +5 Big Mac's at a time.  The Big Macs had more to do with any sort of genetics.

Read the link I posted. It explains there is a drive at the cellular level to go back to that behavior. I’m out on this thread. Congrats to all who have successfully lost and maintained the weight loss and good luck and prayers to those working on it. Realizing there is a biological drive working against you can help get past the feelings of failure when you aren’t consistently meeting your goals and help give you the patience to stick with it. Also medication and even surgery are absolutely valid adjuncts to changing behaviors and attitudes about food in general 

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

I think some of the frustration (that turns into disdain/snark) comes from disingenuous statements like this

 ...began gaining weight whenever he ate more than eight hundred calories less than the average amount recommended for a man his size."

Yes, people who have put on weight and list it will most likely have to maintain a lower caloric intake than someone who never put it on due to metabolic changes.  But if you run an 800 calorie deficit for long enough, you will lose weight.  If you don’t, you are lying about something.
 The solution is simple.  The long term implementation program is really fucking hard.  For a long time, I had no idea how much I was eating and was deluding myself.  It was only after a month or two of logging calories that I saw how off I was.  This worked for me because energy balances are part I do everyday.  It clicked, but obviously wont for everyone else.  It’s an every day slog with no quick fix.

When you combine the lying (intentional or not) with the lack of acknowledgment for other’s hard work (“you must just have good genes”, “if I ate that, I would gain 20 lbs”, etc.), the frustration turns to anger.  

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I doubt you see many people showing the same disdain to people falling off the wagon or admitting they have a problem in the Alcoholics thread when they post.  Coming in with a sense of humility and self acknowledgement garners compassion.  But when an addict comes in saying they don’t have a problem, placing the blame in other directions, saying there is no solution, - the tough love will come out.  Some of us have even had these discussions before with loved ones.

 

Good luck to those making a genuine effort.  And for those who aren’t, I hope the light clicks soon.

[Gatorubet 30209]

29 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

It's been my experience they put the weight back on because they go back to prior behavior.  A good example is the Suplee story up thread.  He'd always go back to what he did before until he realized it wasn't what he was eating but how much he was eating.

The fat guy in my marathon story lost about 100 lbs but gained it all back because he went bo eating +5 Big Mac's at a time.  The Big Macs had more to do with any sort of genetics.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Gatorubet

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

I’m sure I know dozens who have as well. It doesn’t change the evidence that the majority of people regain the weight,  and often additional weight on top of that.
 
Not sure why you left off my qualifier “for the most part.” Of course people can overcome genetic predispositions toward obesity, but there bodies are literally resisting their efforts at the cellular and neuronal levels.
 
And of course many people have favorable genetic traits that resist obesity. They might be fucked in a famine, but currently such traits are beneficial 

Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, Dr. Layne Norton, Dr. Spencer Nadolsky, Ben Carpenter and Alan Aragon all agree with you.

[gmr548 16576]

PEANUT BUTTER!.  WHY?

Uh, cause it’s good. Generally try to avoid added sugar but not there.

[rage-a-holic 4382]

2 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

When did the switch happen? I never knew that the plastic bottles were ever different than the American stuff. I always thought it was just the glass bottles so I probably screwed myself a ton over the years in Old Mehico.

2013

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

34 minutes ago, Kringelbert Fishtybuns said:

I think some of the frustration (that turns into disdain/snark) comes from disingenuous statements like this

 ...began gaining weight whenever he ate more than eight hundred calories less than the average amount recommended for a man his size."

Yes, people who have put on weight and list it will most likely have to maintain a lower caloric intake than someone who never put it on due to metabolic changes.  But if you run an 800 calorie deficit for long enough, you will lose weight.  If you don’t, you are lying about something.
 The solution is simple.  The long term implementation program is really fucking hard.  For a long time, I had no idea how much I was eating and was deluding myself.  It was only after a month or two of logging calories that I saw how off I was.  This worked for me because energy balances are part I do everyday.  It clicked, but obviously wont for everyone else.  It’s an every day slog with no quick fix.

When you combine the lying (intentional or not) with the lack of acknowledgment for other’s hard work (“you must just have good genes”, “if I ate that, I would gain 20 lbs”, etc.), the frustration turns to anger.  

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I doubt you see many people showing the same disdain to people falling off the wagon or admitting they have a problem in the Alcoholics thread when they post.  Coming in with a sense of humility and self acknowledgement garners compassion.  But when an addict comes in saying they don’t have a problem, placing the blame in other directions, saying there is no solution, - the tough love will come out.  Some of us have even had these discussions before with loved ones.

 

Good luck to those making a genuine effort.  And for those who aren’t, I hope the light clicks soon.

I couldn’t have said it better.  Thank you.

The want to compare themselves to alcoholics but when you treat them like alcoholics, they turn into vagines.

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

54 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Read the link I posted. It explains there is a drive at the cellular level to go back to that behavior. I’m out on this thread. Congrats to all who have successfully lost and maintained the weight loss and good luck and prayers to those working on it. Realizing there is a biological drive working against you can help get past the feelings of failure when you aren’t consistently meeting your goals and help give you the patience to stick with it. Also medication and even surgery are absolutely valid adjuncts to changing behaviors and attitudes about food in general 

I’m not disputing that but when people say they have a medical disposition to being fat, it’s fair to ask what they’re doing to manage that.  My wife and her entire family has high cholesterol.  (They’re also all fat.). Wife got put on meds in college.  When she lost weight in her 30’s, her cholesterol dropped to normal levels and she’s off the meds.

Also, with all due respect, surgery should be the last resort for any condition.  Had a doctor once try to talk me into back surgery once.  I went to PT for three months instead.  Every so often, it slips back and I go back to PT.  I’m managing my condition.

No meds, no surgery.  What’s the fun in that?

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

4 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Wulaw, I hope this isn’t misconstrued, but I don’t think this is a healthy thread to be in. I wish you good luck on your journey and hope you get to where you need to be.

Except it is in a lot of ways. If you read what I wrote to, you know, the actual medical professional that is actually talking about what the science says that is literally life changing for me in a lot of ways. It's explains so much of what my experiences have been and gives me the ability to stop being so hateful to myself.  

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Except it is in a lot of ways. If you read what I wrote to, you know, the actual medical professional that is actually talking about what the science says that is literally life changing for me in a lot of ways. It's explains so much of what my experiences have been and gives me the ability to stop being so hateful to myself.  

Of course. I’m talking about the folks screaming in your face. I don’t think that is an effective way to communicate in general. I am pretty sure health professionals don’t go at folks this way either. People tend to shut down. And the doctor on that show certainly gets stern with his patients, but that is because they aren’t following instructions, which from what I can tell, you are doing what your doctor has told you to do.

I’m not a descending voice, I am trying to throw you support, but fully acknowledge that likely most obese Americans are being lazy. I don’t know the percentage, but it’s small, have serious emotional and physical addictions to food, especially sugar.

I merely didn’t care for the way folks were coming at you, especially for how open and honest you have been. Sorry, I am protective by nature. My daughters are going to hate me when they start dating.

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

9 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Of course. I’m talking about the folks screaming in your face. I don’t think that is an effective way to communicate in general. I am pretty sure health professionals don’t go at folks this way either. People tend to shut down. And the doctor on that show certainly gets stern with his patients, but that is because they aren’t following instructions, which from what I can tell, you are doing what your doctor has told you to do.

I’m not a descending voice, I am trying to throw you support, but fully acknowledge that likely most obese Americans are being lazy. I don’t know the percentage, but it’s small, have serious emotional and physical addictions to food, especially sugar.

I merely didn’t care for the way folks were coming at you, especially for how open and honest you have been. Sorry, I am protective by nature. My daughters are going to hate me when they start dating.

There's only one person being a dickhead.  If someone can tell me how to put a user on ignore I would greatly appreciate that.  And really, I don't care if he calls me a morbidly obese piece of shit that deserves to die in a fire. Truly- I can handle that. I got irate b/c said dickhead was completely misconstruing everything I said in, what I absolutely believe to be, an incredibly bad faith manner.  

The thing I can't understand is what would posses a person to overcome something themselves (what's funny is it sounds like he didn't actually overcome what we are talking about in being morbidly obese) and then go back and shit on that populations b/c they made it out. I can promise you the last thing in the world I will ever do, when I get down to where I'm going, which I will now that I have the tools to combat what biology is doing to help keep me fat is act with condescension or disdain for people who were in the same situation I once was.  But to each their own I guess. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Wulaw Horn

[tbone_ 14115]

This thread is such a good use of energy

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

31 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

There's only one person being a dickhead.  If someone can tell me how to put a user on ignore I would greatly appreciate that.  And really, I don't care if he calls me a morbidly obese piece of shit that deserves to die in a fire. Truly- I can handle that. I got irate b/c said dickhead was completely misconstruing everything I said in, what I absolutely believe to be, an incredibly bad faith manner.  

The thing I can't understand is what would posses a person to overcome something themselves (what's funny is it sounds like he didn't actually overcome what we are talking about in being morbidly obese) and then go back and shit on that populations b/c they made it out. I can promise you the last thing in the world I will ever do, when I get down to where I'm going, which I will now that I have the tools to combat what biology is doing to help keep me fat is act with condescension or disdain for people who were in the same situation I once was.  But to each their own I guess. 

I'm not being a dickhead.  I'm just treating you like an alcoholic would and you think that makes me a dickhead.  You're just simply wrong about long term weight loss and it doesn't matter how you feel.  Your opinion is like me telling an alcoholic at rock bottom what to do about it.  I can give my opinion but I'm still wrong.  And no, I wasn't in your situation because I stopped it before it got that bad.  I was gaining 10 lbs per year.  Had it gone another few years, I'd have been 300 lbs.  

But you clearly have an issue with food.  You need to admit that as the first step.  If you don't, that surgery will be a waste and you'll be back where you started.  I love those people in that alcoholic thread and they'd treat you worse than me.  I love them because they recognized where they were and the lack of power they had over it and took control.  They also didn't blame anyone else and they hold people accountable.  You may respond better to positive affirmation but you also need some tough love and someone to hold you accountable.  

I hope your surgery works out well in the long run but know that you have ownership in that outcome just like you have ownership as to why it got that way in the first place. 

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

20 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

This thread is such a good use of energy

If only it burned calories....

Another tip for anyone legitimately curious about not being fat is that lunch is the killer meal of the day.  It's easy to go out with the office, pick up something because you're busy, eat bad while you're traveling, etc.  It was one of my problems.  It's easier to control breakfast and dinner but lunch is sneaky.  It's an easy 1,500 calories if you're not careful.  I've been fortunate enough over the past few years to live close enough to work where I can go home for lunch and eat something healthier.  If not, I'd prolly be packing lunch every day, which can be a pain in the ass.

Also, cut out the snacking but that's obvious.

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

57 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Of course. I’m talking about the folks screaming in your face. I don’t think that is an effective way to communicate in general. I am pretty sure health professionals don’t go at folks this way either. People tend to shut down. And the doctor on that show certainly gets stern with his patients, but that is because they aren’t following instructions, which from what I can tell, you are doing what your doctor has told you to do.

I’m not a descending voice, I am trying to throw you support, but fully acknowledge that likely most obese Americans are being lazy. I don’t know the percentage, but it’s small, have serious emotional and physical addictions to food, especially sugar.

I merely didn’t care for the way folks were coming at you, especially for how open and honest you have been. Sorry, I am protective by nature. My daughters are going to hate me when they start dating.

Yes, sugar is addictive.  No shit.

Imagine going to an AA meeting, admitting that alcohol is addictive (no shit) but you were still going to drink all day and it's not your fault.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Yes, sugar is addictive.  No shit.
Imagine going to an AA meeting, admitting that alcohol is addictive (no shit) but you were still going to drink all day and it's not your fault.

I get it. However, sugar/food addiction is more precarious as we all seem to have agreed. You have to eat to live, but you don’t have to drink. So it seems inherently easier to relapse. I think you can agree to that.

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

1 minute ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I get it. However, sugar/food addiction is more precarious as we all seem to have agreed. You have to eat to live, but you don’t have to drink. So it seems inherently easier to relapse. I think you can agree to that.

Completely agree.  I gradually weened myself off most sugar but it was gradual and took years.  I would drink 3-4 cans of Dr Pepper per day.  Sometimes more.  (Looking back at it now below, it's like good hell.)  Slowly got off that, went to sweet tea (lulz) and then unsweet tea.  Now, it's earthier the unsweet tea or water.  (I drink a lot of water.)  

Still get a little sugar from various foods and booze is my biggest offender. 

But I totally get how addictive sugar can be.  You just need to manage it and ween yourself off as much as you can.  

 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Holy shit. I love Dr Pepper but never would imagine drinking 4 cans a day. Granted, I’ll hit whataburger here abs there and obviously those big cups are probably 36 oz. But 9/10 I get unsweet tea.

[Da Fino 2779]

5 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

I probably started all this when I posted the articles on the science of the diabetes drugs (ozempic etc.) and the newer theory/science around how fat people are fat, so for that I apologize, because clearly being fat or a former fat is very personal and emotional for a lot of you. If you are being triggered one way or another (e.g. defensive and hurt like Wulaw or offensive and mean like aqua Buddha), this is probably not a healthy thread.

However, I still think it’s very interesting and worth discussing.

My sister in law used this stuff. The results were staggering. 

[Wulaw Horn 19069]

22 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Holy shit. I love Dr Pepper but never would imagine drinking 4 cans a day. Granted, I’ll hit whataburger here abs there and obviously those big cups are probably 36 oz. But 9/10 I get unsweet tea.

The cups look a lot bigger than they actually are. If you fill it full of ice it will barely fit a 16.9 OZ plastic bottle of water- like the water goes all the way to the top and leaves a couple drops in the bottle. That's talking about the normal size that barely fits in the cup holder and comes with the meal when they ask you if you want to super size it. If they have a bigger one I'm not aware of it. 

[BabaYaga 15290]

Soda is canned death.  A soda a day is close to four pounds of sugar consumed over a month.  Just as bad:  lemonade, sweet tea, tonic water, juice, smoothies, many fancy coffee drinks.  All have 20+ grams of sugar each, which of course the body just breaks down as any other sugars.  

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by BabaYaga

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Holy shit. I love Dr Pepper but never would imagine drinking 4 cans a day. Granted, I’ll hit whataburger here abs there and obviously those big cups are probably 36 oz. But 9/10 I get unsweet tea.

I'd have one in the morning for the caffeine, then another at lunch, and one for dinner.  Then if I went out for dinner, I'd get refills.  Now, it's been so long since I've had soda, it tastes like fucking swill and I have a visceral reaction to it.  I ate like complete ass as a teenager and into my 20's and as I got older, I slowly gained weight.  Lost 30-40 lbs twice, actually.  Once in my mid 20's and again in my mid 30's and it was much harder my second time around.  That's when I made a vow to keep it off because it would be harder in my 40's, 50's, etc.

Truth be known, I hate working out.  I just hate being fat more.  (Kind of like working.  I hate working but I hate poverty more.)

[YGIFS 19450]

1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Holy shit. I love Dr Pepper but never would imagine drinking 4 cans a day. Granted, I’ll hit whataburger here abs there and obviously those big cups are probably 36 oz. But 9/10 I get unsweet tea.

How's your six-pack going, you burger/soda chugging goofball?  

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I'd have one in the morning for the caffeine, then another at lunch, and one for dinner.  Then if I went out for dinner, I'd get refills.  Now, it's been so long since I've had soda, it tastes like fucking swill and I have a visceral reaction to it.  I ate like complete ass as a teenager and into my 20's and as I got older, I slowly gained weight.  Lost 30-40 lbs twice, actually.  Once in my mid 20's and again in my mid 30's and it was much harder my second time around.  That's when I made a vow to keep it off because it would be harder in my 40's, 50's, etc.

Truth be known, I hate working out.  I just hate being fat more.  (Kind of like working.  I hate working but I hate poverty more.)

Yeah, I'm not one to talk.  Everybody's body is different.  But two things I just don't miss are soda and salt.  Only good news is they are easy as shit to quit.  Quitting booze is incredibly difficult but helps weight loss.  I'm not a huge carb/starch consumer but I don't know how the fuck I could ever quit it.  But I just have to accept I can never stop eating meat in large quantities.  I don't know how the fuck people do that considering our teeth and eyes.  All the fad diets, all the trends and programs...it's all bullshit but quitting soda isn't really that hard considering we're not hardwired for it.  And I got chastised/negged for this on another thread, not saying it's horrible for you...just that I decided not to add salt to any of my food ever again.  Just me.  Not for everybody,  But it jumpstarts weight loss, bowel regularity, and hydration.  Coffee and water, and if you're so inclined---red wine...you can feel like a Golden Pony Boy.  

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

Understanding that I could not drink 1L of coke and eat half a Family sized bag of Doritos for a snack and follow that up with a pizza buffet dinner while maintaining a 28” waist took far too long for me to grasp.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

28” waist? Got plans tomorrow night?

[YGIFS 19450]

28" waist?  I don't know the correct term your people prefer, is it "Little Person" or "Hobbit"?  

Edited March 24, 2023 by YGIFS

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

I

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

5 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

28" waist?  I don't know the correct term your people prefer, is it "Little Person" or "Hobbit"?  

Haha.  I’m short, but having 3 soccer practices + a game every week probably had something to with it.

I was 5’3” at the end of sophomore year, but started junior year 5’10”.  Let’s just say I fell down a lot for no apparent reason during physical endeavors.

[YGIFS 19450]

Sorry for your vertical loss/vertigo?  I guess? 

[YGIFS 19450]

13 minutes ago, Kringelbert Fishtybuns said:

Haha.  I’m short, but having 3 soccer practices + a game every week probably had something to with it.

I was 5’3” at the end of sophomore year, but started junior year 5’10”.  Let’s just say I fell down a lot for no apparent reason during physical endeavors.

Also, sorry I assumed your people used the inches system, you're probably on the metric scale in middle Earth  

That's about when my growth spurt happened, I guess a few months earlier.  But yeah, I was probably 5'5"/120 pounds by the summer before Sophomore year, even played DB in football.   And by the next summer, I was 6'1", 180# and lost most of my coordination.  I was still decent at baseball and swimming but went from middle infield to 1b and short distance/breaststroke to middle distance (200F) and backstroke.  I faked it a few more years even into collegiate athletics but my body just completely changed overnight and I never really got used to it until much later in life.  My metabolism also just completely shifted.  I went from downing carbs for energy and still losing weight to just packing weight based on anything except lean proteins.  I know that happens to most men at end of puberty.  But I was borderline anorexic in junior high just based on metabolic rate, had doctors warn my parents 'n shit despite eating and playing a lot.  And a few years later, I'm seeing a dietician because of early signs of obesity/high cholesterol.  It was weird in hindsight.  

TO The point of this thread---it's just weird how your body settles into these weight plateaus at various times in your life.  I add this exercise or this lifestyle change and voila---weight flies off.  And then this change to food choices and diet and nothing happens, nothing changes.  I have been 6'1" and 180 pounds and was a Division I (non-scholly) athlete.  I have been 6'1" and 255 pounds and couldn't walk to my car without wheezing, and that was in my 20's and another time in my 30's.  I am now in mid-40's and trying to make another tectonic shift because I'm out of time.  Off to a good start, but I also didn't realize how much mental health and sleep played in all this.  Two things I completel took for granted when they were going well for me.  Get some rest and meditation fellas.  Just as important as diet and exercise.  Moreso, I think.  

[Aqua Buddha 14588]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Also, sorry I assumed your people used the inches system, you're probably on the metric scale in middle Earth  

That's about when my growth spurt happened, I guess a few months earlier.  But yeah, I was probably 5'5"/120 pounds by the summer before Sophomore year, even played DB in football.   And by the next summer, I was 6'1", 180# and lost most of my coordination.  I was still decent at baseball and swimming but went from middle infield to 1b and short distance/breaststroke to middle distance (200F) and backstroke.  I faked it a few more years even into collegiate athletics but my body just completely changed overnight and I never really got used to it until much later in life.  My metabolism also just completely shifted.  I went from downing carbs for energy and still losing weight to just packing weight based on anything except lean proteins.  I know that happens to most men at end of puberty.  But I was borderline anorexic in junior high just based on metabolic rate, had doctors warn my parents 'n shit despite eating and playing a lot.  And a few years later, I'm seeing a dietician because of early signs of obesity/high cholesterol.  It was weird in hindsight.  

TO The point of this thread---it's just weird how your body settles into these weight plateaus at various times in your life.  I add this exercise or this lifestyle change and voila---weight flies off.  And then this change to food choices and diet and nothing happens, nothing changes.  I have been 6'1" and 180 pounds and was a Division I (non-scholly) athlete.  I have been 6'1" and 255 pounds and couldn't walk to my car without wheezing, and that was in my 20's and another time in my 30's.  I am now in mid-40's and trying to make another tectonic shift because I'm out of time.  Off to a good start, but I also didn't realize how much mental health and sleep played in all this.  Two things I completel took for granted when they were going well for me.  Get some rest and meditation fellas.  Just as important as diet and exercise.  Moreso, I think.  

Thanks for mentioning sleep.  If you don't get enough sleep, your body will keep weight on.  Also, the harder I work out, the better sleep I get.  Nothing feels better than an afternoon nap on a long run Saturday.

[YGIFS 19450]

You nap while you're running   Psycho.

But yeah, in middle-age, again no magic bullets or quick fixes... but you just have a better time losing weight if you get solid sleep no matter what the fuck else you do.  It's science, but what's more---it's just knowing your body.  I got nothing on any of you but I shed 30-40 pounds in the last many months and then hit a wall.  A huge wall.  And in hindsight, it's because I haven't slept for shit in the last month or so.  4-5 hours of just garbage, toss-n-turn sleep.  But about the same diet and abstaining from alcohol.  Activity level has varied a bit so that's certainly part of it but just absolute, garbage sleep.  That's be a fucking coincidence.