Fat People

[DonkeyCigars 144]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

We split a lot of meals.   Last sunday we went to brunch at a new (to us) restaurant.  Asked the waitress what was the best thing they have.  She says that fish and chips are the most popular thing they have...everybody loves it.  
 

OK.  Not ideal health/calorie wise, but fuck, fish and chips is yummy.  So we split 1 order.  We ate tasty shit, but only 1/2 of what most people would eat.  

 

Also, kudos to you on the getting fit and weight loss! Awesome to hear and great job. Maybe you can be an inspiration or source of hope to your SIL and other family members too.

Edited July 6, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[DalTxHornFan 3,097]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

I’m 6’1” and the last time I weighed 150 was my freshman year of high school after I had grown a foot over 2 years and hadn’t filled out yet.  Fighting weight was around 190 my senior year when I was playing pretty high level basketball.  I have tree trunks for legs.  Put on 10 not so good pounds the first few years of college and have fluctuated between 200-215 in the 20ish years since.  Covid pushed me to the upper end of that range and I’m now getting back to the lower end of it.  I eat pretty healthy 5 nights a week, exercise moderately, and eat whatever the fuck I want a couple of times a week.  I could probably get back under 200 if I gave up booze, but I’m not doing that. 

Early 60's. I'm 6'0", was probably around 170 in college.  Got up to 235 during all of the Covid clampdown. Today weighed in at 212, just staying away from bread, wine and beer (yay martinis and neat bourbon!)  I'd be fine to stay at around 200, or maybe a little less.  BMI says that would be bad, but screw 'em!

[conVINCEd 21,469]

18 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Early 60's. I'm 6'0", was probably around 170 in college.  Got up to 235 during all of the Covid clampdown. Today weighed in at 212, just staying away from bread, wine and beer (yay martinis and neat bourbon!)  I'd be fine to stay at around 200, or maybe a little less.  BMI says that would be bad, but screw 'em!

I’m not dipping below 200 unless I start running marathons and my knees would have a problem with that.   I’m good with where I am, and most people think I weigh 20 lbs. less than I actually do because of my Earl Campbell-esque thighs.  Nobody but the BMI would call me fat.  

[washparkhorn 9,939]

18 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

most people think I weigh 20 lbs. less than I actually do because of my Earl Campbell-esque thighs.  Nobody but the BMI would call me fat.  

Thunder Thigh Brother.

When I played rugby, I had thighs like Robert Newhouse. These days I make the fitter-nuts with bird legs feel miserable for skipping leg days. I can't believe calf implants are a thing. 

 

[conVINCEd 21,469]

3 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Thunder Thigh Brother.

When I played rugby, I had thighs like Robert Newhouse. These days I make the fitter-nuts with bird legs feel miserable for skipping leg days. I can't believe calf implants are a thing. 

 

I actually grew up playing sports against one of his kids.  Met him a time or two.  I have big legs, but not that big.

[ztejas 43,411]

1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Like others have said, my wife and I regularly split the large portions/meals as well. Portions are very big.

That said we don't come from a culture where you eat 12 courses and spend 5 hours eating dinner as a social or familial cornerstone of every interaction. I could see how that might be difficult, culturally, but we are talking about American culture of huge portions at mostly mediocre restaurants on a Wednesday night. You have a special occasion or a birthday or at a Michelin starred restaurant, live a little. You at Mi Cocina's for the second time this week on a Thursday night, maybe don't eat a whole basket of chips along with frozen margaritas and a bunch of tacos.

I can't tell if I love you as a poster or hate you. You always have me somewhere in between and I'm pretty conservative politically when it comes to posters here. 

Like this is my book is a weak entry but I also understand where you're coming from. Idk. Half the posters here hate me so I can't really talk. 

[SHOOTER12 8,800]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:06 AM, Nicole44 said:

I’m in no position to judge anyone’s weight. I’ve always been (pretty much) the same since I was 13. 5’8” 120. Have dipped below and up to 133.  The people I know that KNOW they are overweight feel the shame of every pound. Fuck as long as you are healthy and your doctor says nada about your heart or cholesterol…why does anyone care? If you want to eat flaming hot Cheetos dipped in chocolate do it! 

Now this is a prime example of the humble brag...

[washparkhorn 9,939]

6 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Now this is a prime example of the humble brag...

1 pound underweight in fact according to BMI. 

But it was quite a humble - humble brag. I am not sure a humble humble brag is a humble brag. I need more evidence.

So . . . 

[InkaUtexas 25,862]

3 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

that's not a hurdle I'm willing to jump.  You can have my beer when you pry it from my cold, dead hand. 

Said a real Surly member. Right there with you my man. I will eat all the rabbit food to ensure I can sip the beers I want AND deserve. 

I say that knowing I am about 10 pounds under where I want to be. 6'1, 175. Want to get back to 185 and do it the right way. 

[BabaYaga 15,288]

13 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I’m 6’1” and the last time I weighed 150 was my freshman year of high school after I had grown a foot over 2 years and hadn’t filled out yet.  Fighting weight was around 190 my senior year when I was playing pretty high level basketball.  I have tree trunks for legs.  Put on 10 not so good pounds the first few years of college and have fluctuated between 200-215 in the 20ish years since.  Covid pushed me to the upper end of that range and I’m now getting back to the lower end of it.  I eat pretty healthy 5 nights a week, exercise moderately, and eat whatever the fuck I want a couple of times a week.  I could probably get back under 200 if I gave up booze, but I’m not doing that. 

Lol, same.

6'5 and vacillate between 212-215lbs.  Waist is down so I can easily fit into '33 shorts.  Jeans are a comfortable 34x35 is I can find them.  I think 205lbs would be a good landing spot.

My Fitness Pal is a great app for those that use them that I found.  Tracks everything.  Never been a "diet" person other than low carbs and minimal processed sugars.  It does a great categorizing almost anything you eat.  Just type it in and it tracks your overall caloric consumption and macros.  Easiest thing I've found.  Say, for example you want to drop weight and the app says you need to stay @ 2400 calories.  Just keep track and it does the work.  Whatever is left at the end of the day is yours. Ice cream.  Beer.  Whatever.  Exercise earns you more calories, but it always keeps you on track for just enough to lose (or gain) weight based upon your inputs.  You eat Chipotle for lunch.  Type it in and it does the rest.  

[Captainant 27,633]

59 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

My Fitness Pal is a great app for those that use them that I found.  Tracks everything.  Never been a "diet" person other than low carbs and minimal processed sugars.  It does a great categorizing almost anything you eat. 

MFP has good features, but a big part of their business model is selling your health data to advertisers - which kind of sucks ass. If you happen to use an iPhone, Apple Health has pretty strong data privacy measures in place and won't sell your info to 3rd parties

[Buzzrock 14,902]

There’s a reason that people in photos from the 70s are all skinny, and it’s not because they were all crossfitters on keto diets.

[BabaYaga 15,288]

10 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

There’s a reason that people in photos from the 70s are all skinny, and it’s not because they were all crossfitters on keto diets.

100%.  Virtually every modern malady people suffer from today stem from a caloric surplus diet.  

[Lat22 4,010]

12 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

There’s a reason that people in photos from the 70s are all skinny, and it’s not because they were all crossfitters on keto diets.

Cigarettes.

[mchookem 16,321]

...and cocaine 😄

[Guest Lobo]

30 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

There’s a reason that people in photos from the 70s are all skinny, and it’s not because they were all crossfitters on keto diets.

It really is amazing to look back of 60's & 70's pics of family members who went on to get real heavy years later.  But there they are, cigarette in one hand, 150 calorie non-light beer in the other hand.  And all of them what would now probably be called "Skinny", back then just normal weight I guess.  Maybe it was also the "going out to eat" entitlement phase hadn't come on yet. 

Even into the 1980's, at least for us growing up...going out to eat was maybe once a month treat.  Yeah, you probably over-ate at this place because it was new and exciting, but it was rare.  We never got takeout.  We went through a drive-through only on long drives or maybe after a little league game.  But everything else was eaten at home and prepared in normal portions.  Now, everybody from kids to adults---it's multiple fast food lunches throughout the week, out to dinner twice a week, takeout another two nights a week.  I bet we went from 80% of meals at home/school with 20% out, to the exact opposite. 

Nevermind school lunches.  Those things are fucking insane.  Who is the lobby that gets that shit to qualify as a healthy meal?  I didn't see a school cafeteria until 9th grade.  We made our lunches at home from K-8th, there was no other option except once a quarter we'd get Pizza Hut to bring those personal pan pizzas.  Side note, I did just realize recently as our oldest now packs her own school lunch with a little ice pack deal---I left home for K-8th at 8:00am with a brown paper bag turkey sandwich, and we ate lunch at 11:30am.  3.5 hours of turkey in an unventilated locker in a school with no A/C.  /csb

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Lobo

[BabaYaga 15,288]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It really is amazing to look back of 60's & 70's pics of family members who went on to get real heavy years later.  But there they are, cigarette in one hand, 150 calorie non-light beer in the other hand.  And all of them what would now probably be called "Skinny", back then just normal weight I guess.  Maybe it was also the "going out to eat" entitlement phase hadn't come on yet. 

Even into the 1980's, at least for us growing up...going out to eat was maybe once a month treat.  Yeah, you probably over-ate at this place because it was new and exciting, but it was rare.  We never got takeout.  We went through a drive-through only on long drives or maybe after a little league game.  But everything else was eaten at home and prepared in normal portions.  Now, everybody from kids to adults---it's multiple fast food lunches throughout the week, out to dinner twice a week, takeout another two nights a week.  I bet we went from 80% of meals at home/school with 20% out, to the exact opposite. 

Nevermind school lunches.  Those things are fucking insane.  Who is the lobby that gets that shit to qualify as a healthy meal?  I didn't see a school cafeteria until 9th grade.  We made our lunches at home from K-8th, there was no other option except once a quarter we'd get Pizza Hut to bring those personal pan pizzas.  Side note, I did just realize recently as our oldest now packs her own school lunch with a little ice pack deal---I left home for K-8th at 8:00am with a brown paper bag turkey sandwich, and we ate lunch at 11:30am.  3.5 hours of turkey in an unventilated locker in a school with no A/C.  /csb

 

What's the old gym saying, "cant outwork a bad diet"

[Celery Man 20,931]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Side note, I did just realize recently as our oldest now packs her own school lunch with a little ice pack deal---I left home for K-8th at 8:00am with a brown paper bag turkey sandwich, and we ate lunch at 11:30am.  3.5 hours of turkey in an unventilated locker in a school with no A/C.  /csb

 

I was always jealous of these kids. Fuckin warm spaghettios

[RDCanecutter 26,381]

We normally eat the great majority of meals at home. It was above 99% during the worst of the pandemic, like literally two meals from outside the home in a year.

That said, yesterday I got a wild hair and went and fetched "boughten" food. Chicken finger sandwiches from a local chain. First couple of minutes it tasted pretty good. Then after I finished it I realized they'd thrown an entire salt shaker into the mix. Still a little queasy a day later. All y'all that eat fast food every day, daaaaaamn. Switch to arsenic, it's probably healthier.

[BabaYaga 15,288]

I don't like hippies
And I don't like cornbread
And I don't like much
I said I don't hippies
And I don't like cornbread
And I don't like much
But that's okay
Fat babies have no pride
Fat babies have no pride
Fat babies have no pride
And that's okay
Who needs pride
I like you
Cause you like me
And you don't like much

[BabaYaga 15,288]

5 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

We normally eat the great majority of meals at home. It was above 99% during the worst of the pandemic, like literally two meals from outside the home in a year.

That said, yesterday I got a wild hair and went and fetched "boughten" food. Chicken finger sandwiches from a local chain. First couple of minutes it tasted pretty good. Then after I finished it I realized they'd thrown an entire salt shaker into the mix. Still a little queasy a day later. All y'all that eat fast food every day, daaaaaamn. Switch to arsenic, it's probably healthier.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

100%.  Virtually every modern malady people suffer from today stem from a caloric surplus diet.  

I remember reading in either In Defense of Food or Omnivore's Dilemma  (both by Michael Pollan), that they had compiled research on on basically every diet in the world from ancient indigenous diets to the modern French diet and found that they were actually all pretty good.  The lone exception was the modern "western" diet.

Of course, this issue is more complicated than that, but that is a major factor if not the major factor.

As long as were are throwing out personal weight and diet info, I will dovetail with my earlier post on stress and forces at play preventing healthy eating.

5'-11", 54, 185ish.  I would like to be about 175 or less for rock climbing and general joint health purposes.  I am knowledgeable in things diet and exercise.  On occasion I balloon up to 200 or so  without even knowing it (football season, covid, work etc.).

I'm pretty good about stopping the gain at 200 and getting back down to the 180's in a few weeks either slowly or quickly and it is not real hard to stay there with minimal exercise, moderate alcohol intake and a sensible diet when you stay on top of it.

However, there is always some incident, injury, occurrence, temptation, or unforeseen factor that crops up and requires adjustment, vigilance, and some kind of rework.  It is just a grind.

Some of this is just getting older as evidenced by my meniscus surgery in December.  But damn, it just feels like it should be easier than this.  I can only imagine what it feels like if someone is even just barely technically obese.  

[Larry T. Spider 1,746]

As I’ve been reading through this thread I’ve been thinking about the simplest solution on a national scale. The best solution will never work because we are idiots, only the simplest has a chance.

Getting people to count calories and stay under a specific number is the only idea I can really think of. I would guess the average 50 pound overweight person doesn’t know how many calories they should be consuming or how many are in their typical foods.

What I see a lot of people ordering as a normal whataburger meal is 1,645 calories. If you are 200 pounds and want to maintain your weight, you have less than 1,000 remaining calories in the day. That’s fine if you are aware of it and make adjustments. But if you keep plowing through calories you are going to be a fat ass in short order.

[BabaYaga 15,288]

5 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I'm pretty good about stopping the gain at 200 and getting back down to the 180's in a few weeks either slowly or quickly and it is not real hard to stay there with minimal exercise, moderate alcohol intake and a sensible diet when you stay on top of it.

However, there is always some incident, injury, occurrence, temptation, or unforeseen factor that crops up and requires adjustment, vigilance, and some kind of rework.  It is just a grind.

Some of this is just getting older as evidenced by my meniscus surgery in December.  But damn, it just feels like it should be easier than this.  I can only imagine what it feels like if someone is even just barely technically obese.  

Yep.  Most of it are inflammation related maladies.  Mine's my lower back.  Long swimmers torso, so if/when my core gets out of whack, my backs locks up.  Now it's migrated to sciatic pain which is the worst.  Gone to back regular ice baths and REALLY want to get a sauna for the home/garage.  Get those heat-shock proteins going.

Thing that's helped my lower body (lower back, knees, and feet & ankles) has been low impact rucking.  Do it 3-4 times a week with 55+lbs.  Slow deliberate pressure has tightened everything up and no more jarring injuries from running/jumping.  Just walk/hike like a pack mule

[BabaYaga 15,288]

8 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Getting people to count calories and stay under a specific number is the only idea I can really think of. I would guess the average 50 pound overweight person doesn’t know how many calories they should be consuming or how many are in their typical foods.

Yep, can't manage what you don't measure.

[RDCanecutter 26,381]

3 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

There’s a reason that people in photos from the 70s are all skinny, and it’s not because they were all crossfitters on keto diets.

Unironic singing of showtunes.

[DaysOff 7,947]

It's insidious how we got here. An extra 100 calories a day is another 10 lbs per year. People aren't gorging as much as you think. Lumpy on Leave it to Beaver doesn't look like the fat kid in school anymore.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

The food lobbies just about never lose cases in this country.  Start there before you start blaming the fat folks.   The food industry has much in common with the tobacco industries.  Convincing the public that things that are terrible for them are good for them.  Adverts targeting children unless fought (and those fights lost more than won), e.t.c. 

An audiobook I'm listening to referenced a study in which obese people chose 'an other handicap' rather than obesity on a questionnaire.   This is unique in that most every other handicapped person choose their own handicap over another.  IE, a blind person would choose to stay blind versus going deaf.   They are emotionally wrecked and shamed at every corner.  People are also sold a bill of goods from the diet industries, the supplement industries, e.t.c.  And the bombardment of ads every where.  

But yeah, shame the fat people not the money that works overtime to keep them that way.

 

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,508]

1 hour ago, Larry T. Spider said:

As I’ve been reading through this thread I’ve been thinking about the simplest solution on a national scale. The best solution will never work because we are idiots, only the simplest has a chance.

Getting people to count calories and stay under a specific number is the only idea I can really think of. I would guess the average 50 pound overweight person doesn’t know how many calories they should be consuming or how many are in their typical foods.

What I see a lot of people ordering as a normal whataburger meal is 1,645 calories. If you are 200 pounds and want to maintain your weight, you have less than 1,000 remaining calories in the day. That’s fine if you are aware of it and make adjustments. But if you keep plowing through calories you are going to be a fat ass in short order.

I find the percentages on nutrition labels to be almost intentionally confusing. They seemed to be designed to help people with underlying health problems and not necessarily for people with weight issues. Of course, those can be related.

The label doesn't tell you how many calories you've consumed as a daily percentage?  They give you per serving and/or total calories but how about telling that 200 lb guy that his whatameal just made up 62% of his daily calories? 

And before someone replies, I understand that a 6'5" man has different calorie needs from a 5'1" woman.  Age and activity level also play a part. But we could have 2 percentages on the label: 1 for the average man and woman.

Quote

But yeah, shame the fat people not the money that works overtime to keep them that way.

At the end of the day, people are responsible for themselves even if the deck is stacked against them. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Nice Guy Eddie

[BabaYaga 15,288]

1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

The food lobbies just about never lose cases in this country.  Start there before you start blaming the fat folks.   The food industry has much in common with the tobacco industries.  Convincing the public that things that are terrible for them are good for them.  Adverts targeting children unless fought (and those fights lost more than won), e.t.c. 

An audiobook I'm listening to referenced a study in which obese people chose 'an other handicap' rather than obesity on a questionnaire.   This is unique in that most every other handicapped person choose their own handicap over another.  IE, a blind person would choose to stay blind versus going deaf.   They are emotionally wrecked and shamed at every corner.  People are also sold a bill of goods from the diet industries, the supplement industries, e.t.c.  And the bombardment of ads every where.  

But yeah, shame the fat people not the money that works overtime to keep them that way.

 

 

 

And just as the zeitgeist changed on the negative aspects of smoking, cause the single biggest disruption to the industry, so too does this idea that being fat is "ok" needs to go away.  They are not victims.  They know what they shovel in their bodies is not good for them just as smokers did/do.  When public sentiment shifted, you saw the usage rates drastically go down.  

This starts with not shitting all over public figures likes Adelle who lost all that weight.  They should be celebrated.  Not castigated.  

[BabaYaga 15,288]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The label doesn't tell you how many calories you've consumed as a daily percentage?  They give you per serving and/or total calories but how about telling that 200 lb guy that his whatameal just made up 62% of his daily calories? 

And before someone replies, I understand that a 6'5" man has different calorie needs from a 5'1" woman.  Age and activity level also play a part. But we could have 2 percentages on the label: 1 for the average man and woman.

People can do their own math.  Just tell us what's in it.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,508]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

People can do their own math.  Just tell us what's in it.  

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep, can't manage what you don't measure.

Counterpoint:

My most effective diet and exercise regimen did not involve counting calories at all.  I was 45 at the time, so it was not a young guy metabolism thing.

It was kind of a paleo type of thing and it involved a lot of cooking but was pretty easy to do and opened up a whole bunch of eating options...and as others have said, it made it real difficult to eat junk food and sweets-they just didn't taste good or were too sweet.  There was no doughnut or candy bar that could compete with some thick coconut milk poured over some raspberries. 

Mostly just a bunch of things that you needed to stay away from and one of them was not alcohol, at least for me.  Just eat when you are hungry.

The problem with it from an every man standpoint was that you needed to plan and shop.  There were a lot of farmers market items and organic food, but you could pull it off without those more expensive items.  I actually did the math on it and with eating at home so much much we actually saved money.

I was on that for years, but one of my kids went vegetarian and complicated things from a logistics standpoint.  That and I also got injured and had to modify workouts etc.  The whole thing just kind of got chipped away at and lost steam.

[BabaYaga 15,288]

10 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Counterpoint:

My most effective diet and exercise regimen did not involve counting calories at all.  I was 45 at the time, so it was not a young guy metabolism thing.

It was kind of a paleo type of thing and it involved a lot of cooking but was pretty easy to do and opened up a whole bunch of eating options...and as others have said, it made it real difficult to eat junk food and sweets-they just didn't taste good or were too sweet.  There was no doughnut or candy bar that could compete with some thick coconut milk poured over some raspberries. 

Mostly just a bunch of things that you needed to stay away from and one of them was not alcohol, at least for me.  Just eat when you are hungry.

The problem with it from an every man standpoint was that you needed to plan and shop.  There were a lot of farmers market items and organic food, but you could pull it off without those more expensive items.  I actually did the math on it and with eating at home so much much we actually saved money.

I was on that for years, but one of my kids went vegetarian and complicated things from a logistics standpoint.  That and I also got injured and had to modify workouts etc.  The whole thing just kind of got chipped away at and lost steam.

For sure.  There us a lot more to measure than calories.  Hours of sleep.  Water consumption.  Daily weight.  Exercise.  It's just being proactive.  Same basic premise most of use used in school:  time management, allotment, organization, & most importantly discipline.  

[Larry T. Spider 1,746]

Those are all great things at an individual level, but I don’t think it’s realistic across the 200 million people that need to lose weight in this country. Like I said with calorie counting, it’s far from the ideal solution. But when dealing with large numbers, something that everybody can understand and implement is going to yield the best results.

In football terms, you can’t roll an NFL playbook out to middle schoolers.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

And just as the zeitgeist changed on the negative aspects of smoking, cause the single biggest disruption to the industry, so too does this idea that being fat is "ok" needs to go away.  They are not victims.  They know what they shovel in their bodies is not good for them just as smokers did/do.  When public sentiment shifted, you saw the usage rates drastically go down.  

This starts with not shitting all over public figures likes Adelle who lost all that weight.  They should be celebrated.  Not castigated.  

Usage rates for smoking didn't go down b/c of shaming.    That may have contributed, but that's pretty minor. They went down b/c of taxation, banning of ads targeting children, giant ass warning labels, multiple concerted efforts.  And those battles took years to win as the tobacco companies denied and sued the shit out of anyone trying to say "smoking causes cancer."  The food industries do much the same, and the organizations we choose to be their watchdogs are run by them.  

Edit:  On top of that, I think maybe you missed it, but the majority of obese people are already ashamed.  Maybe they're not meeting the contrition rites you have in mind.

Public sentiment isn't going to change as much w/food b/c the public loves being told that their bad habits of consumption are actually good for them.  Broccoli isn't shelf stable, and thus not as profitable.  Follow the money.  Always.

Edited July 6, 2021 by MC Fresh Breath

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

3 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Those are all great things at an individual level, but I don’t think it’s realistic across the 200 million people that need to lose weight in this country. Like I said with calorie counting, it’s far from the ideal solution. But when dealing with large numbers, something that everybody can understand and implement is going to yield the best results.

In football terms, you can’t roll an NFL playbook out to middle schoolers.

Baba Yaga took what I said about not measuring calories and then added  bunch of other stuff that you need to measure, which was not my experience at all.

Calorie counting is for the masses will not work, especially if you are counting shitty food.  It is just one more layer of diet administration that will inevitably get fucked up or lead to loss of momentum (again, for the masses).

Eat the right things and the calories will follow, would be my solution on the diet side.  Not really any need to monitor anything except the lbs once a week.

Do that and there is little need to work out more than taking some walks and some basic calisthenics appropriate for your fitness level. 

But we are Americans, and long before calorie counting does us in, we will join a gym, get some home equipment, buy some workout clothes and inevitably fall flat when we can't make even the most minor adjustments to the eating habits that got us here.

Its kind of like fishing.  I have guys I fish with that are into every new lure or reel that comes out and rather than having faith in the stuff that works and spending time reading the water or honing presentation, they are in a perpetual cycle of new equipment or accessories that yields the results that were no better than the last time they went out.  And the sad thing is that the time and money investment in the things that work is less than what they are doing.  

['stache 21,795]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

And just as the zeitgeist changed on the negative aspects of smoking, cause the single biggest disruption to the industry, so too does this idea that being fat is "ok" needs to go away.  They are not victims.  They know what they shovel in their bodies is not good for them just as smokers did/do.  When public sentiment shifted, you saw the usage rates drastically go down.  

This starts with not shitting all over public figures likes Adelle who lost all that weight.  They should be celebrated.  Not castigated.  

Tobacco has a ton of rules now on age, ingredients (i.e. flavoring), super high taxes, etc. What really needs to happen is to treat HFCS (and added sugars in general) as a hugely negative ingredient. Marketing campaigns, etc. It's already started, with the big soda makers investing heavily in water, non-sugared seltzers, etc. And in my world, bucket size colas would be outlawed, and anything above a certain threshold of added sugars would have additional taxation. Manufacturers use HFCS and other sugars because they are cheap and subsidized. Taxes have always played a role in creating incentives and disincentives. If we can disincentivize the use of cheap sugars, manufacturers will implement changes in turn.

Yes, people can buy more than one soda and fill their own buckets, and fatties will pay the extra taxes, but I've read behavioral economics and health care studies showing that many people will not buy the second and just live with the smaller portion. And "sin" taxes on cigarettes have indeed helped reduce consumption (although my proposal is more about disincentives to manufacturers first and consumers second). There are a million policies that can be implemented to help. It's pretty clear that the sugar regime is a big part of the problem, as the chart posted earlier showed with the introduction of HFCS as a mainstream cheap ingredient coinciding almost exactly with the rise in HFCS usage. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by 'stache

[JulesVerne 32]

I started what a lot of you would call a "fad diet" and can echo some of the comments on this page. I lost some weight doing nutrisystem and I can tell you that the only reason I started it and stayed on it when the going got tough, meaning I got hangry and irritable while trying to change my mindset about food and eating, was beacuse it was convenient and it was simple.

I didn't have to count the calories or know about nutrition. I didn't need to add more time or find more time in my day for healthy cooking and shopping and cleaning disihes. I simply ate the yellow packaged food for breakfast, the blue one for lunch and the red one for dinner and the purple ones for snack. I saved time during the day and the thinking was done for me. Most people don;t just ride a bike, we have to learn with training wheels.

[BabaYaga 15,288]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Tobacco has a ton of rules now on age, ingredients (i.e. flavoring), super high taxes, etc. What really needs to happen is to treat HFCS (and added sugars in general) as a hugely negative ingredient. Marketing campaigns, etc. It's already started, with the big soda makers investing heavily in water, non-sugared seltzers, etc. And in my world, bucket size colas would be outlawed, and anything above a certain threshold of added sugars would have additional taxation. Manufacturers use HFCS and other sugars because they are cheap and subsidized. Taxes have always played a role in creating incentives and disincentives. If we can disincentivize the use of cheap sugars, manufacturers will implement changes in turn.

Yes, people can buy more than one soda and fill their own buckets, and fatties will pay the extra taxes, but I've read behavioral economics and health care studies showing that many people will not buy the second and just live with the smaller portion. And "sin" taxes on cigarettes have indeed helped reduce consumption (although my proposal is more about disincentives to manufacturers first and consumers second). There are a million policies that can be implemented to help. It's pretty clear that the sugar regime is a big part of the problem, as the chart posted earlier showed with the introduction of HFCS as a mainstream cheap ingredient coinciding almost exactly with the rise in HFCS usage. 

All true.  And these mechanisms helped facilitate the change, but the change is much more culturally ingrained now.  Kids and teens don't smoke nearly as much now because of the stigma against it.  There's vaping, which is another side note.  My point is it's no longer seem as a cultural positive.  It's no longer the cool thing to do.  

Taxing certain foods with a certain HFCS threshold wouldn't be the worst idea.  Taking steps like these along with addressing what seems to be a more and more cultural acceptance on obesity seem like steps in the right direction.  What was it, 50+ years ago the sugar industry quietly paid scientists to say fats', not sugars make you fat.  I wonder how many tens of millions died from this insidious advice over the years?

Any top-down, one size fits all solution won't work for a myriad of reasons.  Biodiversity being one of the most obvious.  Not every plan works for each person.  Zack Bitter broke the world record of a 100 mile race averaging 7 minutes a mile.  He eats ONLY ribeye's.  That's it.  100% carnivore.  

[BabaYaga 15,288]

27 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Edit:  On top of that, I think maybe you missed it, but the majority of obese people are already ashamed.  Maybe they're not meeting the contrition rites you have in mind.

Public sentiment isn't going to change as much w/food b/c the public loves being told that their bad habits of consumption are actually good for them.  Broccoli isn't shelf stable, and thus not as profitable.  Follow the money.  Always.

I'm not so certain of that.  More and more seem to be echoing this "big is beautiful" messaging (that I take umbrage with) and get applauded for it.  

I think many of the quantifiable steps mentioned earlier to make this crap food more expensive is a start.  The bolded above is another example of disinformation that finally cracked.  It worked with tobacco.  I can work with all this processed garbage people think is "food".  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,508]

Almost every diet, short or long term, works if you stick to it. 

Nothing is going to change in terms of American's obesity problem except it will get worse. We can talk solutions but most people are not going to change. The fried chicken sandwich is too tasty and I will start eating better next week.

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

19 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm not so certain of that.  More and more seem to be echoing this "big is beautiful" messaging (that I take umbrage with) and get applauded for it.  

I think many of the quantifiable steps mentioned earlier to make this crap food more expensive is a start.  The bolded above is another example of disinformation that finally cracked.  It worked with tobacco.  I can work with all this processed garbage people think is "food".  

I feel like the 'big is beautiful' stuff is exaggerated things similar to clickbait, but that's me.

That study I referenced is somewhat old:

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1990648&page=1

Quote

 

One part of the online study examined subconscious attitudes toward obesity and found that across the board, regardless of age or body weight of the participants, "individuals more strongly associated fat people with bad and thin people with good," the report said.

Fat people are seen as lazy and unwilling to try hard enough to lose weight.

That, Schwartz says, is a big part of the problem. Even overweight participants in the study thought poorly of themselves, and once that level of self-condemnation is reached, it becomes nearly impossible to lose weight.

"Children are constantly given the message, 'You're fat because you're lazy,'" Schwartz said, "'and you're not trying hard enough.' That child is going to internalize that message. And once somebody believes that about themselves, it's going to get harder rather than easier for them to do the hard work that it takes to really fight obesity and be healthy."

 

These people are already shamed, imo.  Shaming them further doesn't show compassion or empathy to me.  I feel instead of worrying about appearance and trying to make them feel bad enough about thesmselves, the appeal should be towards health/longevity.   But I would also quit subsidizing meat, dairy, sugar, e.t.c. and start subsidizing veggies/fruits.  And that's obviously never going to happen. 

Some big food industry stuff can be found by simply googling "food industry is like the tobacco industry."  I know you aren't specifically arguing that point.  I just find it interesting and think it is a much bigger contributor to the problem.  The rise in obesity has a pretty clear timeline and the set of actions during that timeline (mainly industrialized farming and food industries) seem to go right along with it. 

[ABSR 5,308]

38 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Almost every diet, short or long term, works if you stick to it. 

Nothing is going to change in terms of American's obesity problem except it will get worse. We can talk solutions but most people are not going to change. The fried chicken sandwich is too tasty and I will start eating better next week.

Every diet works, and every person is on a diet.  Part of understanding weight management is understanding that you are already on a diet, just likely a bad one.

And after you do change your diet/lifestyle to lose weight, you need to eventually have a plan for what the "maintain weight" diet/lifestyle will look like, otherwise people will claim success and then revert back to prior habits and prior weight gain.

[BabaYaga 15,288]

2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I feel like the 'big is beautiful' stuff is exaggerated things similar to clickbait, but that's me.

Agree to disagree.  I think it's huge on social and mainstream media.  The idea that even discussing the myriad of negative health effects is "fat shaming".  That needs to stop.  

Nor is "shaming" in the literal sense.  It's not overt abuse, but rather the consistent messaging that this is not ok, but there are paths to get through it.  Five decades of intentional dietary lying ought to piss a few people off as well.  We post calories.  Start with HFCS and sugars.  A Snickers bar has about 20 grams of sugar.  Juxtapose that with a bagel and fancy coffee.  Which combined is almost always more grams....yet it's "healthy".  It's wild what people still believe.  

There are already massive ag subsidies, but it's on the right track and a discussion that needs to happen.  

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

Sorry, I probably should have read the entire thread.  I feel Mr. Drummond put it way more eloquently than me:

Quote

 

Those fatties know they are fat, they have just given up and don't think they can fix it.   Every minute of the day they think about their weight, they don't go on family vacations, or if they do, it is reluctantly.   That guy debated about going to the astros game because those seats are small and he knew they will be in the next person's way sitting there - but someone convinced them and they couldn't tell them why they didn't want to go.   They wake up every Monday morning saying today is the day it will change and they fail by lunch.   Over and over, decade after decade they fail.    All that failure is just a beating and have given up.    They have accepted their fate - they are committing suicide, and they know it, and they hate themselves way more than you hate them.  

 

 

 

 

And fair enough that you disagree.  I just personally feel that there are many forces conspiring against them.  It isn't to say healthy weight loss can't be done.  But there are many, many more factors than just laziness and not enough shame.   

 

 

[Message Board User 12,395]

 

[XYZ 2,154]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

Don’t you ever get tired of shitposting?

[Gil Bang 25,917]

I suppose it could be a supply/demand argument, but in some places, it’s hard to find healthy food. My son served at Fort Polk. Lots of fats around that area. We went to a popular restaurant and I was so amazed by the menu I had to take a photo



Find something healthy on that thing.

[Message Board User 12,395]

34 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Don’t you ever get tired of shitposting?

No.  Don't like it, put me on ignore.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Message Board User