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Chris Warren signs with the Oakland Raiders

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6577

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I was going to post this in the "Horns in the NFL" thread but as Warren highlights my point I'll do it here.

Do you support all Horns in the NFL just because they played at UT?

I have a hard time rooting for guys like Warren or Hill who never really did shit for the team and by all accounts actually quit on it etc. I am not rooting against him, just not rooting for him.

But someone like Poona I am absolutely rooting for as he worked his ass off at UT, had a great attitude etc

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50 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I was going to post this in the "Horns in the NFL" thread but as Warren highlights my point I'll do it here.

Do you support all Horns in the NFL just because they played at UT?

I have a hard time rooting for guys like Warren or Hill who never really did shit for the team and by all accounts actually quit on it etc. I am not rooting against him, just not rooting for him.

But someone like Poona I am absolutely rooting for as he worked his ass off at UT, had a great attitude etc

Holton Hill didn’t quit on the team. He’s a bonehead, for sure. But to say he “never really did shit for the team” is hilarious. Dude was our best defender last year until his suspension. Absolutely I will root for him. 

Similar with Warren. I don’t know the circumstances behind the end of his tenure, either. I don’t know if he was demoralized by Herman. 

I also don’t seem to know nearly as much as everyone here about Poona. I know he’s way undersized and was for a Texas DT. I know he’s one of those Shag/Surly favorites and I have never understood why. I don’t know about his work ethic.

But absolutely I will root for him because he’s a Horn. I’d fucking root for Ron Weaver McKelvey if he made a comeback. 

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Mileslong

Mileslong 4716

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Mensa got psyched. Only in football-never-ever do you not find a way to work it out with Warren given what else you have... You find a way to work with the young man and get him to commit to something (himself or the team - doesn't matter) and you get him to play for that. The point you are making doesn't really get made, anyway. Players want to win.
 
 


Warrens lack of development goes on Strong not Herman...
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Mileslong

Mileslong 4716

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Maybe he didn’t try hard enough, or have the right attitude, or ran too upright, or wasn’t aligned. But somehow the Seahawks are managing to get something out of him. Mensa and Beck gave Porter his carries and moved him to TE. I would have transferred too. 


Seahawks? Maybe we should start calling you Mensa
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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6577

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18 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Holton Hill didn’t quit on the team. He’s a bonehead, for sure. But to say he “never really did shit for the team” is hilarious. Dude was our best defender last year until his suspension. Absolutely I will root for him. 

Similar with Warren. I don’t know the circumstances behind the end of his tenure, either. I don’t know if he was demoralized by Herman. 

I also don’t seem to know nearly as much as everyone here about Poona. I know he’s way undersized and was for a Texas DT. I know he’s one of those Shag/Surly favorites and I have never understood why. I don’t know about his work ethic.

But absolutely I will root for him because he’s a Horn. I’d fucking root for Ron Weaver McKelvey if he made a comeback. 

I guess I view the repeated drug issues as a problem, Warren basically never seemingly giving his all etc as not being someone that once off the Horns I don't feel need to actively, continuously root for just because they went to Texas. Like I said I am not wishing them harm etc, I am just not actively rooting for them, don't really give a crap how they do in the NFL. Whereas there are other players that stayed engaged, didn't repeatedly fail drug tests etc that I would prefer to root for.

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9 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I guess I view the repeated drug issues as a problem, Warren basically never seemingly giving his all etc as not being someone that once off the Horns I don't feel need to actively, continuously root for just because they went to Texas. Like I said I am not wishing them harm etc, I am just not actively rooting for them, don't really give a crap how they do in the NFL. Whereas there are other players that stayed engaged, didn't repeatedly fail drug tests etc that I would prefer to root for.

Yeah everyone viewed his repeated drug issues as “a problem”. That’s totally different than a player that “never really did shit for the team and by all accounts actually quit on it“. 

7 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

He needed a decent offensive line to get his momentum going forward is what it seems like to me. Never really had that here

He was way too damn slow to hit the hole, and if that doesn’t get fixed (and I don’t know how it can), he has no future as a RB in the NFL. 

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20188

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45 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Holton Hill didn’t quit on the team. He’s a bonehead, for sure. But to say he “never really did shit for the team” is hilarious. Dude was our best defender last year until his suspension. Absolutely I will root for him. 

Similar with Warren. I don’t know the circumstances behind the end of his tenure, either. I don’t know if he was demoralized by Herman. 

I also don’t seem to know nearly as much as everyone here about Poona. I know he’s way undersized and was for a Texas DT. I know he’s one of those Shag/Surly favorites and I have never understood why. I don’t know about his work ethic.

But absolutely I will root for him because he’s a Horn. I’d fucking root for Ron Weaver McKelvey if he made a comeback. 

Warren never did shit here. That was his choice and his alone. 

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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I root for all Horns in the NFL, even if they didn't reach their potential here and left early or didn't play bowl games. Sucks rooting for Earl and Poona means Pete Carroll too, but I think they have the most former horns. 

Even dudes like Donta and Armani I'm rooting for, especially because they are Texas city boys. Their dad is a goof, but Armani came around in the end. That reverse for a TD was awesome.

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Red Five

Red Five 40693

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56 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I also don’t seem to know nearly as much as everyone here about Poona. I know he’s way undersized and was for a Texas DT. I know he’s one of those Shag/Surly favorites and I have never understood why. I don’t know about his work ethic.

Wait. What?

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formermav43

formermav43 4599

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53 minutes ago, Mileslong said:

 


Warrens lack of development goes on Strong not Herman...

 

Let’s disregard 2015, since he played sparingly and we know about the one Tech game.

So he was averaging 6 ypc as Foreman’s backup through 4 games until he got hurt in 2016, in 60+ carries, a respectable sample. Herman can’t (or won’t) replicate those results, and moves him to H-back. And that’s Strong’s fault?

Umm...ok.

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VinyVango

VinyVango 677

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Warren played pretty well under Strong and looked very promising.  Then, he got banged up and then Herman came in and they didn't mesh.  I think even when Herman was only giving him 3 carries a game, he was around 4 ypc, which x3 in MENSA apparently doesn't equal a first down.

He is the type of back that needs a good 8-10 carries to get in a groove.  He definitely had some questionable effort plays in his few carries near the end, but it's unclear if that was him having some mental hurdle to get over regarding an injury, pouting about Herman not playing him, a shit O-line, or a mix of the above.  Herman chose not to use him and he took it personally.  Generally labeling him as a shitty player is inaccurate.

That said, I think Herman and Warren learned from last year.  I am hopeful Herman doesn't abandon the run game (with RBs) too soon in games this year, and I believe Warren does need some coaching up to improve how he runs in traffic.

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7171

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20 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I hear about his great work ethic. But I don’t really know. 

Not to derail the thread further, but this just seems like an odd take. 

Poona's measurables have always been in question, but not his motor or production.  He was the b12 defensive lineman of the year last year.  Now I know we're not exactly the sec when it comes to dline, but at minimum that means he was pretty damn productive. 

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29 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Not to derail the thread further, but this just seems like an odd take. 

Poona's measurables have always been in question, but not his motor or production.  He was the b12 defensive lineman of the year last year.  Now I know we're not exactly the sec when it comes to dline, but at minimum that means he was pretty damn productive. 

I agree with everything you said. It (strongly) suggests a strong work ethic. But I don’t know. 

The only reason I even am talking about it is because everyone presumes to know Hill and Warren are quitters and we simply do not know that and in fact I just don’t think that’s the case. 

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6658

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i can not believe that there are honestly people here who are defending the staff's use of kyle porter last year.
of course warren was better.  of course he should have got more carries.  i'm not sure what the guy did to some of you, but you need to let it go.  

There are people in every fan base that don’t think the coach can make a mistake. Lots of trust the coach stuff. True, the coaches see the practices and attitudes, but they aren’t without their own biases. Sometimes the coaches want to show everyone that they are smarter than the fans. Sometimes the coaches are bitches.

Fans never want to admit those things.
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The Dog

The Dog 43851

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i can not believe that there are honestly people here who are defending the staff's use of kyle porter last year.
of course warren was better.  of course he should have got more carries.  i'm not sure what the guy did to some of you, but you need to let it go.  

I’m not seeing anyone defending the staffs use of Porter.
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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20865

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1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Let’s disregard 2015, since he played sparingly and we know about the one Tech game.

So he was averaging 6 ypc as Foreman’s backup through 4 games until he got hurt in 2016, in 60+ carries, a respectable sample. Herman can’t (or won’t) replicate those results, and moves him to H-back. And that’s Strong’s fault?

Umm...ok.

 

2017 season - Including the OSU game (Warrens last real time at RB) Chris Warren was averaging 2.7ypc against teams not named San Jose St.   Not sure what else Herman needed to see.

 

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Nope

Nope 3112

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5 minutes ago, po elvis said:

wasn't the deal with Warren was he was saving himself for the NFL? he was too worried about hurting himself in college so he didn't give 100%? how he i running right now kind of lends credence to what we were hearing.

We made that theory up here, so yes it’s a fact.

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9 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

2017 season - Including the OSU game (Warrens last real time at RB) Chris Warren was averaging 2.7ypc against teams not named San Jose St.   Not sure what else Herman needed to see.

 

A bigger sample size. One that doesn’t have Porter carrying the ball a dozen times more whilst carrying a ypc 1.3 lower. 

I think we abandoned Warren. I don’t know why. I won’t blame Herman, because I don’t know his rationale, and I do know Warren was hit the hole absurdly slowly. But I won’t label Warren a quitter by any stretch, and the decision to give Porter carries in lieu of Warren cannot be defended. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4599

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23 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

2017 season - Including the OSU game (Warrens last real time at RB) Chris Warren was averaging 2.7ypc against teams not named San Jose St.   Not sure what else Herman needed to see.

 

Apparently he needed to see more Kyle Porter, who was averaging fewer ypc over that same stretch (2.2), while getting more carries until OSU, when he was injured.

Our running game was obviously dysfunctional last season. I’m not disputing that. Nor am I saying that Warren was some sort of world beater.

I was responding directly to the idea of trying to absolve Herman of all responsibility here-particularly the notion that his lack of development is somehow attributable to Strong? The fact is that Warren, for all his flaws, put up good numbers in 2016. He’s likely going to make an NFL team this year. Part of his failure last year is his own fault. But Herman has to own part of it, as Snacks pointed out. Our insistence on using 11 personnel, even with no TEs on the roster and a surplus of decent receivers. Our bizarre rotations at the skill positions favoring good practice players over actual talent/results. Our insistence on the QB running game with a razor thin depth chart. Our refusal to adapt in general to suit the current personnel’s strengths.

Herman chose to play the long game, favoring instilling his scheme and culture, over short term results. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. It could pay great dividends down the road for program building, or it could be a sign of his narcissism-the jury is still out.

But Warren COULD have been a more effective player last year. He was before, and he looks like he’s going to stick with it he Raiders. That he wasn’t is his fault for not buying in, it’s a matter of poor scheme fit, of poor OL play, of Herman for not getting him to buy in or adapting his scheme-it’s all of the above.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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My biggest issue with our running game last year was the scheme we chose to run with our personnel. I'm not technically savvy enough to detail the specifics, but it was obvious that we employed a lot more delay and hesitancy in our system last year compared to the power, hit the hole with speed stuff we did under Gilbert. I don't know enough to suss out the particulars between a power vs zone blocking system, but whatever they are it was clear that both our Oline and RB personnel was way better at the former than the latter, yet we insisted on doing what they weren't good at.

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Skipper

Skipper 6105

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2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:


So the guy with a 12 yd running head start locked the guy running sideways off his feet and we are shocked?

That's your take on that play? Warren probably had at least 25 pounds on the guy.  He absolutely should have fared well better than that.  Hell, I'm certainly no Porter defender but he would have fared better than that.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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On 8/19/2018 at 3:44 PM, texasstrong12 said:

Warren's best games: 

'15 Baylor (75th in S&P+ defense), '15 Texas Tech (124th in S&P + defense), '16 UTEP  (123rd in S&P+ defense),  '16 California (106th in S&P + defense), '16 Oklahoma State (66th in S&P + defense), '17 San Jose State (117th in S&P + defense). 

Warren didn't have any other games with over 50 yards rushing or multiple touchdowns. Oklahoma State was probably the only defense he produced against that was a semi-decent defense at 66th in S&P + . But they were shit against the run at 88th in rushing defense. 

That pretty much sums up Warren's career at Texas (under Herman and Strong). Produced a few good games against shit defenses and was a no show against any defense that had a pulse. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah you'd think with the 1995 Dallas Cowboy offensive lines we had here road-grading huge holes for him and our VY-level QBs preventing opposing Ds from keying on the run, Warren would have been able to shred even Miami 2001-level defenses.

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Mileslong

Mileslong 4716

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i can not believe that there are honestly people here who are defending the staff's use of kyle porter last year.
of course warren was better.  of course he should have got more carries.  i'm not sure what the guy did to some of you, but you need to let it go.  

No one has said Porter was better, I was the first guy who said Porter shouldn’t play and I caught all kinds of shit for it.

But these coaches are blind or idiots. There are reasons he didn’t play much, may be attitude, blocking assignments, etc etc. bottom line is he probably should have played more but he was an under achiever and that’s on him
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Deej

Deej 76585

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1 hour ago, po elvis said:

wasn't the deal with Warren was he was saving himself for the NFL? he was too worried about hurting himself in college so he didn't give 100%? how he i running right now kind of lends credence to what we were hearing.

If he was, he cost himself a lot of money. Hope he can stay healthy until his next contract.

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6658

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That's your take on that play? Warren probably had at least 25 pounds on the guy.  He absolutely should have fared well better than that.  Hell, I'm certainly no Porter defender but he would have fared better than that.

Yes that’s my take. Warren should have fared better, but in that situation, 25 lbs ain’t shit.
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Baconboy

Baconboy 135

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4 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Warren never did shit here. That was his choice and his alone. 

This is revisionist history. Go watch the early games from last season, particularly the KSU game. He's all over the field doing just about everything but being given the ball (except the last play of the game when he had to carry half the KSU defense four yards into the endzone after getting hit two yards behind the line of scrimmage). Not sure what happened off the field or who to blame, but there was clear separation in ability and certainly equal effort during games between him and Porter the first half of the season.

Lots of reporters were asking about it. Mensa is Mensa, but his response when asked why Warren wasn't getting more carries was just stupid:

"Puzzling to some has been Texas’ reluctance to use junior tailback Chris Warren III , a 250-pound battering ram who averages nearly 6.6 yards per carry over his career and ran for 166 yards in a win over San Jose State. In losses to Maryland and USC, Warren got just 10 carries for 46 yards.

Herman was asked why Warren didn’t get the ball more often against the Trojans. Against Maryland, an early 27-7 deficit forced Texas to abandon its running game, but the Longhorns never trailed USC by more than seven. Warren carried the ball just once in the second half against USC and caught one pass for 11 yards in the fourth quarter.

Herman noted that Warren averaged only 3.8 yards on his four carries against USC. By that measure, Warren would have scored from the USC 3-yard line in overtime. Instead, the play call had freshman quarterback Sam Ehlinger try to power his way in over left tackle and his fumble set up the Trojans’ winning field goal . Texas’ first drive of the game was stopped on 4th-and-2 when, instead of testing USC’s strength with Warren, Ehlinger was dropped for a 3-yard loss.

“We’ve got to find a way to get (Warren) more yards, but in the middle of a game when you see how that is shaking out, the definition of insanity is repeatedly performing the same act and expecting different results. To keep going back to 3.8 yards per carry, I think there would be some criticism there, too. ‘Tom, why did you give Chris Warren the ball 20 times if he only had 70 yards?'” Herman said.""

https://wtop.com/ncaa-football/2017/09/texas-offensive-woes-start-with-absent-run-game/

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formermav43

formermav43 4599

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4 minutes ago, Deej said:

Maybe the rest of the offense was too tired in overtime to push him over the goal line?

Too tired to hold on to the football, evidently.

Not surprising considering it’s a true freshman throwing the ball 40+ times and running 20 (both at incredibly low efficiency).

 

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hookem48

hookem48 4634

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4 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:


So the guy with a 12 yd running head start locked the guy running sideways off his feet and we are shocked?

we're shocked by the absolute lack of effort, not the fact that a 250 pound blocking back got knocked 5 fucking yards on his ass, well that's pretty shocking too.

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6233

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10 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

My biggest issue with our running game last year was the scheme we chose to run with our personnel. I'm not technically savvy enough to detail the specifics, but it was obvious that we employed a lot more delay and hesitancy in our system last year compared to the power, hit the hole with speed stuff we did under Gilbert. I don't know enough to suss out the particulars between a power vs zone blocking system, but whatever they are it was clear that both our Oline and RB personnel was way better at the former than the latter, yet we insisted on doing what they weren't good at.

You mean you wanted to us to run more power with a big back like we did the prior year, allowing our inexperienced and undersized lineman to use angles and leverage to their advantage, and guys like Vahe to do what they do best, like pull and block down? Why?

It makes much more sense to run outside zone to the boundary with a 250 pound back with little lateral quickness, asking guys like Nickelson and Garret Gray to set the edge. 

Don’t question the experts sonny - they know much more than Joe Fan, including what it takes to make it as an Hback/TE RB in College the NFL. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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19 hours ago, po elvis said:

wasn't the deal with Warren was he was saving himself for the NFL? he was too worried about hurting himself in college so he didn't give 100%? how he i running right now kind of lends credence to what we were hearing.

For sure. He never ran here with the urgency he's showing with the Raiders. If he ran and got in a pileup, he'd push the pile, but in this preseason he's hitting everything hard af.

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CfRhTxStBobcats

CfRhTxStBobcats 600

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On 8/25/2018 at 7:46 AM, BrazilHorn said:

I was going to post this in the "Horns in the NFL" thread but as Warren highlights my point I'll do it here.

Do you support all Horns in the NFL just because they played at UT?

I have a hard time rooting for guys like Warren or Hill who never really did shit for the team and by all accounts actually quit on it etc. I am not rooting against him, just not rooting for him.

But someone like Poona I am absolutely rooting for as he worked his ass off at UT, had a great attitude etc

I'll root for him, but not as hard as I did say for Jamaal. Jamaal left early, but put in far more effort in his 3 years on the 40.

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