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Obergefell v. Hodges, six years later.

Walden Ponderer

By Walden Ponderer
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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12,639

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My Facebook feed has a lot of memories for this date six years ago; see, in the aftermath of Obergefell v. Hodges, the Ponderer crew packed up and headed to Austin to assist with wedding overflow. We met fellow activists in one of the Judge's quarters down at the Travis County courthouse, and I should have known the whole event would be coordinated by Glenn Maxey. If you've never met Glenn, you're missing out. Texan through and through, and gayer than a $3 bill. Funniest person I think I've ever met.

Anyway, we shepherded around people (including an awful lot of olds, who were dying for their lifetime partnerships to be legalized before they snuffed it) and even escorted folk down to the Capitol grounds, which seemed like an auspicious place for their no-planning-involved vows to be exchanged.

A lot of good memories there. Anyway, the Facebook memories got me curious about long term effects of the decision. There are several retrospectives, but I'll just share from the easiest to quote, even though it's a year old now:

The Economic Impact of Marriage Equality Five Years After Obergefell v. Hodges

Quote

The U.S. is home to an estimated 513,000 married same-sex couples. Over half of these couples have married since the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in Obergefell v. Hodges1, which extended marriage equality nationwide in June 2015.

An estimated 293,000 same-sex couples have married since Obergefell. As these couples married, their weddings generated an economic boost for state and local economies nationwide. We estimate that wedding spending by these couples and their out-of-state guests has boosted state and local economies by an estimated $3.8 billion and generated an estimated $244.1 million in state and local sales tax revenue since the Obergefell decision. This spending supported an estimated 45,000 jobs for one full year.

The immediate impact on economic impact is too pat, I think. There's lots of secondary impacts related to additional economic stability afforded by committed relationships. And there has undoubtedly also been a boost to mental health that means a negative economic impact has been lessened. Always hard to judge that sort of thing.

But anyway, love has been love has been love for six years now. My how time flies. I can't wait to see this sort of retrospective on pot legalization.

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12,639

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8 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

Judging its correctness based on the amount hotels and party planners made seems a little gauche. 

I certainly get that. On the other hand, marriage is essentially an economic contract between two people. Yes, there is a huge emotional component, but it's the economic principles involved that define the legal approaches to marriage, regardless of sexual orientation.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45,678

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15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But, counterpoint: letting the queers marry each other totally destroyed civilization.  So, you know, there's that.

Has anyone brought this up to the evangelicals?  Seems like they should have to atone for something. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,115

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13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But, counterpoint: letting the queers marry each other totally destroyed civilization.  So, you know, there's that.

And I'm quoting myself because....maybe my smartassery was right.

Bear with me here.....It's hard to think of a any more recent event as a better example of "the ebil libs are hellbent on destroying American, which is a CHRISTIAN NATION!" than Obergefell.  I mean, the law actually blessed an abomination.

That galvanized, motivated, and mobilized the "opposition to the ebil libs."  Think about how the Trump campaign and movement repeatedly has been described as " a fight to save civilization -- Trump is our LAST STAND!"  Now, it's not that Trump and Trumpism are actually a coherent attempt to push back on decades of "liberal" reforms, like letting gays marry, treating minorities like human beings with equal rights, etc.  But, they FEEL like it.  And that's what matters.  So, as those-who-would-be-Trumpkins swirled about in despair and anger, they were waiting for something around which they could coalesce to express their rage, and to seek revenge for, well, the liberals RUINING EVERYTHING.  And there they got it - a narcissist who would claim to be whatever you wanted him to be, so long as you responded with slavish adoration, so he was the perfect rallying point.  Trump was whatever they wanted to believe him to be.  He's a crusader to defend civilization against the immoral liberal plague (even though he is perhaps the most immoral president we've ever seen, it didn't matter.  Their IDEA of Trump is what mattered).

So, Obergefell was the final major catalyst event that made it inevitable for these people to lose all grip on reality, and rally around an insane, evil man, who was willing to sacrifice the country and earth itself, so long as it fed his ego.  It was a match made in hell.

And those durned queers marrying is what made it all happen.

There, hypothesis stated.

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staboner

staboner 4,969

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57 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But, counterpoint: letting the queers marry each other totally destroyed civilization.  So, you know, there's that.

well civilization is destroyed so there is that

giphy.gif?w=300

Edited by staboner
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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27,548

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6 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

My Facebook feed has a lot of memories for this date six years ago; see, in the aftermath of Obergefell v. Hodges, the Ponderer crew packed up and headed to Austin to assist with wedding overflow. We met fellow activists in one of the Judge's quarters down at the Travis County courthouse, and I should have known the whole event would be coordinated by Glenn Maxey. If you've never met Glenn, you're missing out. Texan through and through, and gayer than a $3 bill. Funniest person I think I've ever met.

Anyway, we shepherded around people (including an awful lot of olds, who were dying for their lifetime partnerships to be legalized before they snuffed it) and even escorted folk down to the Capitol grounds, which seemed like an auspicious place for their no-planning-involved vows to be exchanged.

A lot of good memories there. Anyway, the Facebook memories got me curious about long term effects of the decision. There are several retrospectives, but I'll just share from the easiest to quote, even though it's a year old now:

The Economic Impact of Marriage Equality Five Years After Obergefell v. Hodges

The immediate impact on economic impact is too pat, I think. There's lots of secondary impacts related to additional economic stability afforded by committed relationships. And there has undoubtedly also been a boost to mental health that means a negative economic impact has been lessened. Always hard to judge that sort of thing.

But anyway, love has been love has been love for six years now. My how time flies. I can't wait to see this sort of retrospective on pot legalization.

How many divorces?

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troph

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2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

How many divorces?

A lot, it’s actually part of the irony, I know more than a few couples that were together for years, married then divorced within a year.  The right to marry isn’t a fairy tale. Shit blows up for the straights and gays alike. 

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troph

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The other legacy of marriage equality is seeing the evangelicals acknowledge their loss and double down on trans folk, bathrooms and more science denying bullshit.  HERO, other EROs, the corporate world vs red state hooligan legislators in the battle of equality came right on the heels of the decision. We also still have the Equality Act and once the wedding is over the job, housing, insurance all all sorts of other basic needs of a modern life can still be denied. Love is love is a powerful statement, so they moved on, for the children. 

Edited by troph
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mchookem

mchookem 16,330

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5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And I'm quoting myself because....maybe my smartassery was right.

Bear with me here.....It's hard to think of a any more recent event as a better example of "the ebil libs are hellbent on destroying American, which is a CHRISTIAN NATION!" than Obergefell.  I mean, the law actually blessed an abomination.

That galvanized, motivated, and mobilized the "opposition to the ebil libs."  Think about how the Trump campaign and movement repeatedly has been described as " a fight to save civilization -- Trump is our LAST STAND!"  Now, it's not that Trump and Trumpism are actually a coherent attempt to push back on decades of "liberal" reforms, like letting gays marry, treating minorities like human beings with equal rights, etc.  But, they FEEL like it.  And that's what matters.  So, as those-who-would-be-Trumpkins swirled about in despair and anger, they were waiting for something around which they could coalesce to express their rage, and to seek revenge for, well, the liberals RUINING EVERYTHING.  And there they got it - a narcissist who would claim to be whatever you wanted him to be, so long as you responded with slavish adoration, so he was the perfect rallying point.  Trump was whatever they wanted to believe him to be.  He's a crusader to defend civilization against the immoral liberal plague (even though he is perhaps the most immoral president we've ever seen, it didn't matter.  Their IDEA of Trump is what mattered).

So, Obergefell was the final major catalyst event that made it inevitable for these people to lose all grip on reality, and rally around an insane, evil man, who was willing to sacrifice the country and earth itself, so long as it fed his ego.  It was a match made in hell.

And those durned queers marrying is what made it all happen.

There, hypothesis stated.

 

s4IzUjo.gif

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28,779

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20 minutes ago, troph said:

A lot, it’s actually part of the irony, I know more than a few couples that were together for years, married then divorced within a year.  The right to marry isn’t a fairy tale. Shit blows up for the straights and gays alike. 

The gays deserve the same right to be miserable as the straights. 

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troph

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28 minutes ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

I can’t believe it’s been six years and I’m still not gay married. I thought it was going to be shoved down my throat by now.

I see what you did there. 

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Harrison Bergeron

Harrison Bergeron 1,798

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I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,457

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16 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

I'm reasonably sure gay people are subjectively happier.  Objectively, they can get spousal benefits and other accoutrement of family that may have been denied them.

A culture war distraction on whose part?

And, snowflake, really?  

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28,779

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3 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Right, this question seems to come from someone who's straight and knows no one gay or can't imagine queer folks benefiting from this??

 Not a man of science and data and quite probably gay and in denial about it.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29,353

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6 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

Oh shit, it’s a big logic brain! Everyone run!

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21,195

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7 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

I'm guessing most ladies could kick the ever livin' shit out of a snowflake cunt like you.  

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Bookman

Bookman 4,639

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7 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

Great, another mouth-breather.

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Captainant

Captainant 27,660

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7 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

Sorry, you must be looking for texags.com. Based on this single post, those are more your people than we are. But seriously, you really think that as a new poster, coming in and immediately name-calling is going to be the best first impression you can handle?

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troph

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8 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

Just because your wife hates you doesn’t mean his husband or her wife hates them.  Snowflake? You have no idea what mental toughness is until you live a day as a queer person with dumbfucks like you all around trying to stop progress just so you can marry the person you love and have access to basic modern necessities like insurance, housing, mortgage loans and jobs. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28,779

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7 minutes ago, troph said:

Just because your wife hates you doesn’t mean his husband or her wife hates them.  Snowflake? You have no idea what mental toughness is until you live a day as a queer person with dumbfucks like you all around trying to stop progress just so you can marry the person you love and have access to basic modern necessities like insurance, housing, mortgage loans and jobs. 

I still say he’s closeted gay.

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Js1

Js1 85,320

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47 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Sorry, you must be looking for texags.com. Based on this single post, those are more your people than we are. But seriously, you really think that as a new poster, coming in and immediately name-calling is going to be the best first impression you can handle?

He doesn’t ruffle any panties, SNOWFLAKES!!!1!11!11

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32,859

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

You guys pretty much proved my point.

You didn't have a point. If you think you do, go ahead and make it, otherwise it's just another terrible post from you in a long line of them.

I mean I can try to guess your point, but the closest thing seems like it might be that things should only be legal if they lead to quantifiable quality of life improvements. Which may be the dumbest thing anyone has ever implied. Hey everybody, let's start a list of things that would be illegal for everyone if this was the standard:

Alcohol consumption
Most (all?) processed foods
Coke/soda/soft drinks/pop
Revealing clothes
Firearms (non-hunting use for sure)

What can y'all come up with?

Oh, and this doesn't even get into the issue of certain things being illegal for some but not others. White people can drink all the Dr Pepper they want because they have lower rates of diabetes than minorities. Science! Data! Quantifiable!

Edited by Huckleberry
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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,639

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11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, if we're a bunch of snowflakes, I guess that makes you an orange cock gobbler?

I mean, this is shaggy, er. surly, we can do stupid.

His gun control posts would appear not. Just a troll trying to stir shit on any and all sides. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11,362

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On 7/7/2021 at 11:32 PM, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

i mean, seriously?

also, yall remember when brothers were going to marry sisters and men would marry their donkeys if we gave the gays marriage?

i remember when those arguments were the soup du jour. it would be instructive to go back and take a look at them on the old site and see which posters were embracing them.

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MoJames

MoJames 8,244

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On 7/7/2021 at 10:32 PM, Harrison Bergeron said:

I'm new here, but I get the sense that this forum tends to lean heavily snowflake, so I do not want to ruffle any panties. I honestly could give two shits about gay marriage. But I am a science and data guy. Is there any data that quantifies marked improvements in quality of life post Oberfell? Again, you ladies keep your daggers in the curing solution  - I am just wondering if this was just a culture war distraction or if there is quantifiable and demonstrable data that shows this made QOL improvements.

 

Best step would be to go ask all of your friends now able to be married and see how they are doing.

Serious Biy GIF

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