Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Brisketexan 105142]

Fuck both parties for finger pointing on this debacle. Our entire country owns this.

Correct. This is the result of a pretty consistent US approach, not something unique to either party.

Also, while I said that anyone with any sense knew this was coming, and fast….I didn’t think it would only take a week. My expectation was 2-4 weeks. Turns out, there is no govt/army resistance at all. What a mess.

[UDontKnow 10445]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We should probably stop playing empire.

I understand the sentiment behind your post. The invasion of Afghanistan only benefited the neocon R's and the likes of Halliburton (Dick Cheney) and Raytheon. Aside from that, it was a fool's errand.

But look around in the world right now. Look at what the Russians and Chinese are doing. We are forced to play empire if don't want to lose to the likes of them. There has to be a better way to play the game.

[Js1 85338]

6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Fuck both parties for finger pointing on this debacle. Our entire country owns this.

I’m at this point too. This is the fourth president that we’ve been in Afghanistan under, 2 of each party.  Zero reason to be there another 20 years under 2-3 more presidents. 

It failed. Someone had to nut up and get us out.  The general public is tired of it and not really interested in us being there anymore.  Just about all 47 people who ran in 2020 was against staying. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Js1

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

17 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Serious question: and you believe that ?  The Taliban will kill every single one of the men given the chance.  You think they're gonna let the women go ?  Doubtful, IMO, they're valuable commodities as sex slave chattel.  Once again, the US post WWII has shown how idiotic our foreign policy has been.

Where did I say that? The Taliban is going to kill many Afghans especially those that prospered under US rule or openly went against Taliban teachings.  Unfortunately this was the inevitable outcome. A majority can always wait out an occupying force. 

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

35 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

At this point, we should do everything in our power to make sure the inevitable surrender is peaceful.

It will be peaceful until all of the occupying forces are out of the country. Then the bloodbath will start. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Where did I say that? The Taliban is going to kill many Afghans especially those that prospered under US rule or openly went against Taliban teachings.  Unfortunately this was the inevitable outcome. A majority can always wait out an occupying force. 

Didn't mean say you did specifically, and I did ask, do you believe it.  Your post about the Taliban saying they'd allow folks out quickly is something I'd expect them to say, and then round everyone up, and kill then in the village square.

[ousuxndallas 65]

This is the Saigon-like moment.

[Brisketexan 105142]

Didn't mean say you did specifically, and I did ask, do you believe it.  Your post about the Taliban saying they'd allow folks out quickly is something I'd expect them to say, and then round everyone up, and kill then in the village square.

Quite probably. But there’s not much we can do….aside from actually getting those who assisted us the fuck out of there. We owe them that, and us not doing so is fucking shameful and unacceptable.

Evacuate them to Ft Bliss, Ft Hood, wherever. But get them out so they don’t lose their lives because they did what we asked.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Didn't mean say you did specifically, and I did ask, do you believe it.  Your post about the Taliban saying they'd allow folks out quickly is something I'd expect them to say, and then round everyone up, and kill then in the village square.

I don’t think they’re allowing the majority of Kabul out. Not that it’s even remotely possible to evacuate a city in that manner.

it’s a tragedy but too many Afghans believed in the lie that their govt would protect them. But not enough to prevent this from happening.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Quite probably. But there’s not much we can do….aside from actually getting those who assisted us the fuck out of there. We owe them that, and us not doing so is fucking shameful and unacceptable.

Evacuate them to Ft Bliss, Ft Hood, wherever. But get them out so they don’t lose their lives because they did what we asked.

100% this. We need to show the world we stand by our allies. epsecially when they're risking their very lives assisting us.  You wanna win the hearts, and minds of people ?  Show them why we say we're the shining city on the hill we should be.  

And yep 100% political here, but the climate of our current political parties are why we're in the shit we're in. Party uber alles....

[David Dennison 18860]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It will be peaceful until all of the occupying forces are out of the country. Then the bloodbath will start. 

Yes. Until then, evacuate everyone you can and grant them refuge in the United States. 

 

 

[Anastasis 23469]

 

[used2b 249]

 

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20150501-the-skate-girls-of-kabul

Edited August 15, 2021 by used2b

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Yes. Until then, evacuate everyone you can and grant them refuge in the United States.

Or wherever you can take them to keep them safe. I heard on the news this morning that they’re evacuating a lot of people to Qatar until they can complete their paperwork to apply for visas. Just evacuate everyone who put their lives on the line in order to help us along with their families and fast track their visa applications. 

[Nivek 16930]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

And a lot of us carry Neanderthal DNA. 

Explains Ohio.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

12 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Explains Ohio.

Har har. We can’t all be as cultured and sophisticated, and as unmasked and unvaccinated, as the great State of Texas.

[Anastasis 23469]

17 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Explains Ohio.

I thought that he was speaking for Ohio. 

[Leeroy Jenkins 2404]

Apparently the air field at Kabul has taken some gun fire. A guy I know is waiting to get out on a C-17.  The 24MEU is setting up a perimeter right now.  

[956 Worldwide 34715]

This is going to be a tough pill to swallow but the Special Immigrant Visa program and other similar programs were never conducive to the aim of turning Afghanistan over to the Afghans. Over twenty years, that’s tens of thousands of the very best, most motivated, elites who know how to do things who never actually intended to make Afghanistan their own.  They always knew that one way or another, they were working to leave. The only hope that country had was for its leaders and elites to steel themselves for the idea that Afghanistan was theirs, that nowhere else is, and that they could fight for it or die there. 
 

Please don’t get me twisted. Leaving people behind was never the right thing to do. They are not wrong for leaving. They are absolutely right to prefer bailing out to fighting Allah’s hillbillies for control over a wasteland. It would be absolutely immoral for us to leave them there. I’m simply saying that this brutal policy among other things, was the only prayer in hell we had of this not happening. It’s no surprise that the people winning are the ones with nowhere else but tribal Pakistan to go. 
 

Further proof that we just don’t have the stomach for this sort of thing, and should stop imagining we do. 

[HRSchenker 2268]

Fuck Afghanistan. New personal rule from now on: any President or presidential candidate proposing we send a single soldier back there is ineligible for my vote regardless of party. Those people don't give a shit about us, themselves, or their country. Middle Eastern politics is so goddamn irrational.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

These next few days could be for lack of a better term…gory.


Jesus. This was unheard of 7 days ago. Where and when did these guys just start mowing down city after city?? When that started is when the evacuations needed to start. Not a few hours before Kabul would tumble

[Rip76 4928]

What a shit show.

 

[elfenix 34241]

On 8/14/2021 at 10:43 AM, JimmyJames said:

Except it’s really not. The reason people have different skin colors was due to proximity to the equator, which affects your relationship with the sun, and natural selection caused by susceptibility to viruses (which are of course everywhere) on one hand, and susceptibility to skin cancer (still the most common form of cancer) on the other. That’s it. 
 

One of the reasons society in Europe changed, for better or worse, in relation to societies in Africa was the domestication of animals. Which of course has nothing to do with the color of your skin and was related to what the animals would be willing to do. In other words, sheer luck. 
 

To think one person or society is superior to another because of skin pigmentation was always stupid and is even more so today. 

it's actually vitamin d production vs folate destruction by UVs. 

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

Still recommended reading:

[DDD Dad 14339]

1 hour ago, used2b said:

 

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20150501-the-skate-girls-of-kabul

It is heartbreaking to contemplate what lies in store for these girls (probably young women now, six years removed).  

[Smax 3800]

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

12 minutes ago, elfenix said:

it's actually vitamin d production vs folate destruction by UVs. 

Thanks for pointing that out. Had not heard that but upon initial review I think that might be right. Makes sense. Skin cancer doesn’t occur until later in life so wouldn’t affect natural selection. Interesting. 

[Telegraph_it 3357]

Welp. That’s that. 

[Aqua Buddha 14596]

14 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Welp. That’s that. 

Well we barely make the airport
For the last plane out
As we taxied down the runway
I could hear the people shout
They said, "don't come back here Yankee"
But if I ever do
I'll bring more money
'Cause all she wants to do is dance

[David Dennison 18860]

41 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

These next few days could be for lack of a better term…gory.


Jesus. This was unheard of 7 days ago. Where and when did these guys just start mowing down city after city?? When that started is when the evacuations needed to start. Not a few hours before Kabul would tumble

Um, we've known this was going to happen for years. It's why no one wanted to make the decision to leave.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

It’s immoral for us to leave afghanis in Afghanistan? That’s how we get into 20 year wars.

the mistake was not leaving over the past few weeks, the mistake was going there in the first place. Or to be more precise trying to occupy Afghanistan. The events of this week tell me that 90% of the country do not want western democracy. Is it America’s job to send our troops to protect the 10% around the world?

how many billions did we spend? How many Americans died? And it bought less than a week of the afghanis protecting themselves. 

I do think we should have encouraged more to leave but I’m sure that was actually discouraged. After all, what’s the long term prospects for democracy if all of the people wanting democracy leave?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Um, we've known this was going to happen for years. It's why no one wanted to make the decision to leave.

Spot on. Trump wanted to leave and he was 100% right. I’m sure the military and state depts told him that Afghanistan would fall within months. Even the military couldn’t face the realistic timeline of less than 10 days.

[RexWilson 1347]

If my family was willing to sponsor a refugee family, how do you do that? I started a google search but couldn't figure out a clear path.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Um, we've known this was going to happen for years. It's why no one wanted to make the decision to leave.

Not exactly what I was asking…was wondering when the taliban started picking up steam of this onslaught of cities

[gmr548 16580]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:30 PM, Brisketexan said:

It’s not that warfare is never the answer. It’s that it rarely is, and when it is, that represents a lousy outcome anyway. When the best remaining option is “kill lots of people at great expense, and sacrifice American lives to do it,” then you’re in a shitty spot.

 

One of the most interesting classes I took at UT was a government class called Causes of War. This is what I took from the class at a base level.

Dirty liberal propaganda, but still.

Edited August 15, 2021 by gmr548

[AUS-97HORN 11763]

sucks because we put so much into trying to teach these fucks to take control of their own lives, but instead they seem perfectly happy to just melt away and provide absolutely no defense..... which pretty much tells you something like 60% of the ANA were really Taliban sympathizers and were just doing whatever their tribal elders told them to do. 

and just like Vietnam, every single person who was on record of helping the Americans or the Brits is going to get wiped out.  They have to get to Pakistan or any of the other bordering -stans right now.     Iran is an absolute final option but still a better option than dealing with the taliban who are gonna be out for blood. 

These reporters who are effectively left beind are in deep shit as well because its not like the taliban give a fuck about killing reporters. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by AUS-97HORN

[TexasBeta 1261]

There’s a reason Afghanistan is called the graveyard of empires. Nobody ever learns. These people have zero interest in democracy or any other form of government not grounded in their medieval theocracy. What a waste. We should have bailed after Tora Bora. It’s not like nuking them into the Stone Age is any kind of threat. They live in the Stone Age.


I am grateful to all on this board who went willingly in support of this country and the mission. I continue to go back to my fathers words after his second tour in Vietnam, “never again should we go to another country to fight and die for a populace that doesn’t want us there and for a government that can’t clearly articulate what is victory”… or something like that from what I remember.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

57 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Well we barely make the airport
For the last plane out
As we taxied down the runway
I could hear the people shout
They said, "don't come back here Yankee"
But if I ever do
I'll bring more money
'Cause all she wants to do is kill all the infidels, and anyone who doesn't believe in my radical form of Islam......

Those were the original lyrics I believe, but just didn't have that same pop...

[UpperWestside 6164]

I am glad we are leaving. It is well past time and I hope we never return. I feel sadness for the young girls and women in that country though. They are going to be treated lower than dirt by the Taliban. The lack of human decency that people can have for one another is something I will never fully comprehend.

[David Dennison 18860]

2 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I am glad we are leaving. It is well past time and I hope we never return. I feel sadness for the young girls and women in that country though. They are going to be treated lower than dirt by the Taliban. The lack of human decency that people can have for one another is something I will never fully comprehend.

The Austin homeless thread is eye-opening.

[Lobwedgephil 1139]

We are now sending 7,000 troops to evacuate our people, not sure they will get there in time. This is up from 4,000 a few days ago. 

[Aqua Buddha 14596]

I like how this is Bush’s war that Trump promised to exit but didn’t and it’s Joe Biden’s fault for doing it wrong.

[3adays 454]

5 hours ago, ousuxndallas said:

This is the Saigon-like moment.

And this is exactly with President Biden said would not happen.

 

Q    Mr. President, some Vietnamese veterans see echoes of their experience in this withdrawal in Afghanistan.  Do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam, with some people feeling —

THE PRESIDENT:  None whatsoever.  Zero.  What you had is — you had entire brigades breaking through the gates of our embassy — six, if I’m not mistaken. 

The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability.  There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan.  It is not at all comparable. 

[Muy Frio 182]

 

[Dnaguy 11964]

21 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I like how this is Bush’s war that Trump promised to exit but didn’t and it’s Joe Biden’s fault for doing it wrong.

Never underestimate the ability of Fox News to rewrite reality.

 

Afghanistan is the shining example of the sunk cost fallacy.

 

Without turning to Iraq, W could probably 'won' Afghanistan and put in a government corrupt as the dickens but in control

Without the insurgency of Iraq, we'd probably have left Afghanistan during Barrack's term and not try to do the same strategy / nation building in Afghanistan.

We should have left over 10 years ago.

Fuck W and his terrible choices.

Fuck Democrats for trying to clean up Repubs mess.

Fuck Repubs for always blundering forgein policy.... save George H.W. He had his shit together. The Cold War could have ended way worse. HE should get credit.

[Telegraph_it 3357]

the CIA and Doha station are on it. 
 

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

32 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I like how this is Bush’s war that Trump promised to exit but didn’t and it’s Joe Biden’s fault for doing it wrong.

Trumpublicans roasting Biden now were roasting him for not sticking to Trump’s May 1 departure date and they’d be roasting him if he said we couldn’t leave and opted to stay in the country. They’re trolls who should be ignored.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

7 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Fuck Repubs for always blundering forgein policy.... save George H.W. He had his shit together

Except when he ignored Afghanistan after the Russians left and allowed the Taliban to take over in the first place. And when he didn’t extend the flight ban in Iraq to include helicopters and so Saddam Hussein used them to destroy the Iraqis who tried to heed Bush’s call to take matters into their own hands. They got slaughtered. Thanks, George.

[Dnaguy 11964]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Except when he ignored Afghanistan after the Russians left and allowed the Taliban to take over in the first place. And when he didn’t extend the flight ban in Iraq to include helicopters and so Saddam Hussein used them to destroy the Iraqis who tried to heed Bush’s call to take matters into their own hands. They got slaughtered. Thanks, George.

 

But I mean, Baker's handling of the fall of the wall was pretty spectacular.

I take your points.

But the complete shit storm that COULD have happened after the wall fell and after the collapse of the Soviet Union, is a major triumph of his administration.

Europe could have imploded. 

It didn't.

Maybe it's actually just a happy accident.

Who knows.

[Hornius Emeritus 12462]

6 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Fuck both parties for finger pointing on this debacle. Our entire country owns this.

I am on record on Hornfans as saying before we invaded that it was going to be a bloody, costly mistake.  Then my cousin was very nearly killed in Baghdad by a RPG in 2004. Three years later, the young man who saved my cousin's life was killed by a roadside bomb.

I refuse to own this.