Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Js1 85,311]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Because he didn't want to be blamed for what's happening right now.

 

Obviously 

 

[Anastasis 23,469]

Bill Kristol can literally go fuck his own face. 

[HenryJames 66,041]

22 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

I mean you can lead a horse to water...

[mdmost 43,001]

How was there ever going to be a good way to leave Afghanistan? I hate that we let down the people there who helped us. I expected Biden to do a better job in that. But this was always going to happen. The Taliban were never defeated and we didn't have the stomach to do it. Nor should we. I hate what Afghanistan is going to become. Needless suffering. Violence against dissidents. Oppression and mutilation of women and girls. It's going to be awful. It was always going to be. It was a mistake staying in there as long as we did and going in the first place. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

16 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

What a ducking disaster. Incompetence across the board.
 

America lost all credibility on January 6 when our Capitol was ransacked by a bunch of white trash imbeciles. The prior election of a reality show clown named Donald had already put it on life support. Concerns about our credibility around the world now are meaningless. We have none.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 hour ago, Hookah Horns said:

 

🥺

He forgot to mention the terrorists are operating out of a pizza parlor.

[Aqua Buddha 14,590]

Let's blame everyone except my dad:

 

[Hookah Horns 3,083]

40 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Does the timeline really matter though?   I mean whether it took 30-90 days or 30-90 minutes for Kabul to fall it was going to happen either way and people would bitch about it no matter how quickly it happened. We may have messed up the pullout at this point but it was bound to be a shit show no matter what we did and the Taliban were going to regain control.  I feel bad for the people of Afghanistan but let’s remember that there are countries where people are treated like crap by brutal regimes all over Asia, Africa, South America, etc… and we unfortunately can’t invade all of these countries and get rid of the bad guys either.  The world has some evil people that gain power and do evil things and you can’t just blame the United States.  Not that we don’t do bad stuff also and screw things up diplomatically sometimes but Afghanistan falling to the Taliban is not the United States fault.  If we never went in 20 years ago I am guessing the Taliban would have been in power for the past 20 years and still going strong.

Not really, just marveling at how bad the intel was. 

[Goredho 17,399]

I keep wondering what veterans who fought in Afghanistan are thinking about this.  These are people who signed up to serve, risked their lives, and may have had life altering injuries (mental or physical) as a result.  Or the family of those who served and died in Afghanistan.

I would be fucking livid that my or my loved one’s sacrifices were for this shitty waste.

[6th Street 6,392]

13 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let's blame everyone except my dad:

 

Good point Liz, pick up a gun and go fight them then.

[UDontKnow 10,444]

Speaking of intel. This is an interesting and disturbing walk down memory lane. Sorry for the length of the post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, most of America believes that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are one and the same, but that is far from the case.

[Lobwedgephil 1,139]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe a stupid question, but now that the Taliban has taken over the capital, do we even have the ability to put 7000 troops on the ground to evac all our people without it being a full combat operation?

It will likely be full combat unless they let us leave. But they probably will let us leave. 

[MillerEP 30,454]

That trigger discipline. Really makes me wonder who taught them that:

 

[MillerEP 30,454]

10 hours ago, ousuxndallas said:

This is the Saigon-like moment.

[cactusflinthead 27,598]

 

[Biff Tannen 45,673]

46 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

At this point, most of America believes that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are one and the same, but that is far from the case.

I said exactly this to my buddy at work. The taliban wasn’t responsible for 9/11, but I guarantee you 90% of America doesn’t know the difference. 

[MillerEP 30,454]

The US Embassy is empty and we've moved to the Airport. Videos are showing flocks of Westerners and Afghans wanting out flooding to the airport, hoping to get a flight.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by MillerEP

[JimmyJames 12,271]

8 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Did bin Ladin ever really deny responsibility? What evidence did the taliban really need?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Meant to quote the post prior.

[Assman 1,830]

22 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Army, Marines or Air Force? And nah, they weren't. I pulled into many of their locations, fed and watered my teams. I will take the Afghan over most of our African allies. 

And for ripping off the band aid, let's do it here. But slowly. Make the ANA see what is coming. Let the troops get back to their tribal areas. Don't leave the 215 cut off. 

Agree on a JDAM fest. You can only get into Kabul on 3 roads. Let them come and go find their virgins. 

USAF.  And I've calmed down a bit from last night.  You're right in that there are some far worse militaries in Africa, because I've worked with them too.  I just never trusted the ANA, because there were too many Green on Green incidents costing American lives.  I'm sure a majority of them were good people that just wanted to raise their family without the fear of being killed or kidnapped because they wanted a different future for their county.  At the same time, we gave them more weapons and training than any other 3rd world county and they did nothing with them.  I'm not sure if that's for a lack of "give a fuck" or if they just never had a chance. 

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe a stupid question, but now that the Taliban has taken over the capital, do we even have the ability to put 7000 troops on the ground to evac all our people without it being a full combat operation?

Kabul has a pretty large airport with tons of ramp space due to the large international terminal, ANA ramp, and NATO ramp, but I'm not sure how you shoehorn 7000 people there in some sort of security detail.  Bagram is probably still usable and is only a 7-minute Herk flight away (that was my record at least), if you need a larger staging area.  It seems like complete overkill for a few hundred Americans (total guess, I have no clue how many work at the embassy).

[ChickenSandwich 9,832]

 

[shakahorn 1,645]

Afghan prez fled the country. Where did he go?

[brakeman 28,359]

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Failing safe passage to America or somewhere else safe, I hope that some who collaborated with us can find shelter with warlords formerly aligned with us. Remember, post USSR withdrawal and pre-2001, the Taliban never could quite get control of all of Afghanistan. 

It's also easy to forget it took the Taliban years to take over after the Soviet withdrawal. As much as we might not like it, they have popular support in many area, because they and they alone seem capable of bring order to parts of Afghanistan. A crude and brutal order, but for many, superior to the chaos that reigned when the whole country was scrapped over like a bone by warring chieftains and the government in Kabul was knee-bucklingly corrupt. 

If you choice is between Taliban government or the shitshow that followed Soviet withdrawal and their takeover, your country is fucked. But it's my view that countries like this -- tribal, somewhat multi-ethnic, with various shades of Islam all over the place -- can only be governed by authoritarians. Sad but true: take away a Tito from Yugoslavia and the whole thing falls apart. Same for Saddam and the Assads. Lebanon is one country where it sort of works in a sort of democracy, but it's always one lit fart from a total explosion.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

CSB: I once saw a Taliban delegation in the flesh. For a while there, we were making progress with a pipeline from the gas fields north of Afghanistan down to Karachi. The Louisiana Street c-suite boys brought a bunch of them to Houston to not-wine and dine them. Asked what they wanted to do while in Houston, they agreed on a trip to the zoo, which is where I saw them, black turbans and all.

Edited August 16, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[52-80 19,150]

5 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Platitudes don’t accomplish jack shit. 

Ah, whoops, my bad. 
 

Well, we should have never been there in the first place. Now that we are, theres no good, clean, or dignified way to exit. But anything is better than fucking platitudes and fellating you boss in public. 

[berlinerbaer 678]

3 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

Speaking of intel. This is an interesting and disturbing walk down memory lane. Sorry for the length of the post.

I'm convinced that third country would have been Pakistan. Fuck Bush, but I would have rejected that offer too.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

I feel like I’m having flashbacks to battle of Bastogne in band of brothers when Dike could not make any sort of decision on the battlefield so Spiers, a badass with balls, gets called in to take over and wins the battle.


What in the fuck is going on? Biden needed a “my fellow Americans” speech 4 hours ago.

[UDontKnow 10,444]

3 minutes ago, berlinerbaer said:

I'm convinced that third country would have been Pakistan. Fuck Bush, but I would have rejected that offer too.

If Pakistan were a college football team, it would most definitely be aggy. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,776]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let's blame everyone except my dad:

 

What’s your position on torture and violating the Geneva Convention, Liz?

[Brisketexan 105,095]

I feel like I’m having flashbacks to battle of Bastogne in band of brothers when Dike could not make any sort of decision on the battlefield so Spiers, a badass with balls, gets called in to take over and wins the battle.


What in the fuck is going on? Biden needed a “my fellow Americans” speech 4 hours ago.

To accomplish….what objective, exactly?

Biden, Trump, Jesus Christ, it didn’t matter who was POTUS. A US pullout from Afghanistan was always going to result in a Taliban regime, and quickly.

Where I will definitely fault the admin for is not having a plan to take care of the people who worked for us. Any of those folks who can be saved must be saved, if at all possible.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

To accomplish….what objective, exactly?

Biden, Trump, Jesus Christ, it didn’t matter who was POTUS. A US pullout from Afghanistan was always going to result in a Taliban regime, and quickly.

Where I will definitely fault the admin for is not having a plan to take care of the people who worked for us. Any of those folks who can be saved must be saved, if at all possible.

Yea that. I’m talking to my friend right now about it who basically echoed everything. Hope those that want out can get out to wherever, those who stick behind know what lies ahead.

[956 Worldwide 34,705]

4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

Not really, just marveling at how bad the intel was. 

You act as is if it informed the decision instead of being interpreted and created to justify the decision. That practice didn’t end after Yellow Cake. No one gets anywhere by telling the President his ideas don’t work. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,776]

3 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

Speaking of intel. This is an interesting and disturbing walk down memory lane. Sorry for the length of the post.

At this point, most of America believes that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are one and the same, but that is far from the case.

“The Taliban weren't involved with 9/11. A council of 600 senior AfPak Muslim clerics – essentially the Taliban's governing body – expressed dismay at the 9/11 attacks and offered to expel bin Laden from the country.”

Did the Taliban offer to take Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri and all of al-Qaeda’s top lieutenants into custody and turn them over to the U.S. so they could face prosecution? No? Fuck them. That’s not an offer at all. The Taliban weren’t part of 9/11 but they were and are ideologically aligned with al-Qaeda’s corrupt interpretation of Islam. The Saudi royals also claim to be and help promote that interpretation but they don’t abide by it themselves and that’s one reason why bin Laden resented them and why they kicked him out of the country since they saw him as a dangerous radical.

But it’s true that the only time the Taliban ever personally attacked Americans was when we were an invading force in their country. And yeah, most Americans don’t know the difference between one Muslim and another. That’s why the invasion of Iraq was such an easy sell despite the fact that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. Most Americans don’t know the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam either and President George W. Bush was reported to be one of them just two months before the Iraq invasion (according to Ambassador Peter Galbraith).

[956 Worldwide 34,705]

4 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

Speaking of intel. This is an interesting and disturbing walk down memory lane. Sorry for the length of the post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, most of America believes that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are one and the same, but that is far from the case.

Damn, the Twitter hot takes are going to be shit for this, worse than all the Islam expert bloggers in 2002. This dude gets so much basic shit wrong (ex: the crazy, sanctuary on steroids concept is part of the Pathan traditional code, not Islamic law). His biggest mistake is treating the Taliban as their own reliable and principled narrators is the worst. 
 

“I’m a professional mediator so I could have solved 9/11” brings the lulz though. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by 956 Worldwide

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Goredho said:

I keep wondering what veterans who fought in Afghanistan are thinking about this.  These are people who signed up to serve, risked their lives, and may have had life altering injuries (mental or physical) as a result.  Or the family of those who served and died in Afghanistan.

I would be fucking livid that my or my loved one’s sacrifices were for this shitty waste.

Have a close friend who served in Iraq, combat vet.  It contributed to some big emotional struggles when the places where his compatriots fought and/ or died went back into the hands of the enemy.  It's a very tough and real anguish.

[956 Worldwide 34,705]

10 minutes ago, slorch said:

Have a close friend who served in Iraq, combat vet.  It contributed to some big emotional struggles when the places where his compatriots fought and/ or died went back into the hands of the enemy.  It's a very tough and real anguish.

I am not a combat vet but worked as a civilian in the region. About six years ago my farewell wrap up task was to report back and do some next steps planning after our amazing local partners we had been working with for years got murdered by militants.  The feeling of waste and anger when I went wheels up stayed with me longer than I cared to admit. Feeling it a bit today watching the news. I can’t imagine what Afghan military and civilian hands are feeling now. 

[956 Worldwide 34,705]

A sobering reminder that when we talk about how “they” want to live, we are talking about how, at maximum, 50 percent want to live. This does not mean that we should stay there or that fixing it is our job. But we should be humble about the human cost and realize that the literal erasure of women and girls exists.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/an-afghan-woman-in-kabul-now-i-have-to-burn-everything-i-achieved

 

 

Quote

All I could see around me were the fearful and scared faces of women and ugly faces of men who hate women, who do not like women to get educated, work and have freedom. Most devastating to me were the ones who looked happy and made fun of women. Instead of standing by our side, they stand with the Taliban and give them even more power.

 

 

 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

To accomplish….what objective, exactly?

Biden, Trump, Jesus Christ, it didn’t matter who was POTUS. A US pullout from Afghanistan was always going to result in a Taliban regime, and quickly.

Where I will definitely fault the admin for is not having a plan to take care of the people who worked for us. Any of those folks who can be saved must be saved, if at all possible.

Sorry, you can't criticize Mr. Biden DDD Dad said so, so just stop it right now...  ya got that.  

I got your back DDD dad... we have to protect you imbeciles.

[aggie08 21,496]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A sobering reminder that when we talk about how “they” want to live, we are talking about how, at maximum, 50 percent want to live. This does not mean that we should stay there or that fixing it is our job. But we should be humble about the human cost and realize that the literal erasure of women and girls exists.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/an-afghan-woman-in-kabul-now-i-have-to-burn-everything-i-achieved

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post. Thank you. I've come around to the philosophy that it's not our job to play world police in shitty countries, but saying, "Some countries don't want democracy, and that's their right" is usually a simplistic way of saying that they want to continue treating women as horribly and unequally as possible.

[Telegraph_it 3,357]

Fuck. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000532138610

 

[Telegraph_it 3,357]

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, Telegraph_it said:

 

How the hell did the admin. not see this coming ?  Are our intel, and military advisors so clueless they didn't know this would happen or just didn't care ?  Did they advise the admin. otherwise ?   Whoops, there I go again criticizing the admin. sorry DDD Dad hope you don't start crying.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

We probably should of organized a leave THEN reduced our troop numbers. 
 

I always mess up some mundane detail 

[Hornius Emeritus 12,457]

Watching Afghanistan collapse, as it was always going to and as I argued so vociferously was a huge mistake on Hornfans BEFORE we went to war and spent/committed to spend more than 6 trillion (borrowed) dollars, reminded me of PNAC and Bill Kristol, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, John Bolton, Richard Perle and especially Paul Wolfowitz and Robert Kagan. I thought of Karl Rove's (believed to be, though he has denied saying it) quote: " 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Robert Schuerer was right. Imperial hubris, indeed.

What kills me is that all of the architects of this misguided folly ----- the biggest foreign policy mistake in American history ----- are still sleeping comfortably in their beds unless, like Rumsfeld, they died of wealthy old age. Wolfowitz, given his scandals since, is the one who chaps my hide the most. And George W. Bush, who made the ultimate call, is padding around his ranch, painting portraits, living the life of a comfortable patrician.

Meanwhile, my cousin continues to suffer epileptic seizures from the war, the young soldier who saved his life continues to be dead, that soldier's son and daughter continue to have no father (and, judging from his son's Twitter feed, continue to sorrow for the father they will never know), the earth keeps spinning, and I lie awake at night, consumed by thoughts of the ancient, nameless ills that plague the planet.

War is the stupidest endeavor in which we humans engage, even stupider than arguing with each other in the corral. I try to kill you and all that you hold dear and to destroy your economic base. and you try to do the same to me and, in the meantime, we end up destroying the one thing that allows our children a chance at living, the environment. My dad once said to me that he's convinced that most of those fighting each other would actually like each other if they met in a bar someplace in the world. And all this violence over differences that we, ourselves, manufacture in our own heads. It's the biggest arrow of evidence in the quiver of those who say that God does not exist.

I pray for peace. I pray for karmic justice. I pray for you and for me. I pray that we can figure it out before it's too late.

But right now I pray for one good night's sleep.

[Telegraph_it 3,357]

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How the hell did the admin. not see this coming ?  Are our intel, and military advisors so clueless they didn't know this would happen or just didn't care ?  Did they advise the admin. otherwise ?   Whoops, there I go again criticizing the admin. sorry DDD Dad hope you don't start crying.

One possibility. We did see it. 
 

 

[Bullneck 19,078]

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How the hell did the admin. not see this coming ?  Are our intel, and military advisors so clueless they didn't know this would happen or just didn't care ?  Did they advise the admin. otherwise ?   Whoops, there I go again criticizing the admin. sorry DDD Dad hope you don't start crying.

It was always going to happen.  So, either we stay forever and prop them up or we leave and let it happen.

I haven't seen anything to make me think they were worth the sacrifice of lives and money.

 

[Telegraph_it 3,357]

3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

It was always going to happen.  So, either we stay forever and prop them up or we leave and let it happen.

I haven't seen anything to make me think they were worth the sacrifice of lives and money.

 

Sure. But images and the situation seen from Kabul airport did not have to be this way?

 

[aggie08 21,496]

It was always going to be a mess and a black eye politically for whoever finally pulled the trigger. That's why Trump--smartly, I might add--set an exit date into what would have been his 2nd term.

Doesn't mean that it's still not the right thing to do. The poor planning of what to do with those who aided us is every deserves valid criticism. Unless there were no viable options for relocating them, and abandoning them was the plan...which is extremely shitty.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

13 hours ago, Homercles said:

My understanding is that there never has and never will be a central ‘government’ in the traditional sense.  There are so many tribes, allegiances, families, foreigners and other loose organizations there…many of which have gone on for centuries…that whoever is present and has the most cohesive ability to enforce rules is who maintains the power.  
 

How can you expect to successfully manage that position?  A country that has never known (or appeared to want) a ‘modern’ lifestyle and centralized identity/system of governance, will not fight to (re)gain one.  Germany, and to a lesser extent Japan, had the recent memories of a peaceful and organized system to revert back to…they just needed a model change away from authoritarian, war-driven cult of personalities.  

ISIS cannot recognize a state, as to do so goes against their requirement of a worldwide caliphate.  The Taliban at least appear to do so, and even if their own is a brutally fundamentalist horror show, at least it can be a somewhat cohesive unit.  I’d love to see them turned against China in some proxy fashion, as a way to divert resources away from their growing dominance in the region…maybe that’s the next empire to lay waste there (though I’m not sure how that’d happen except via some regional conflict that they feel inclined to engage in). 
 

Shoulda been a special forces / air power playground of hunting down extremist leadership to keep their influence local and in check…seems once a commitment of large amounts of regular forces got involved, the end was written (as believe been stated here before).   I have nothing but appreciation for those who served, and gave so much to fight over there on endless tours.  
 

Then again I’m not a vet and not qualified to do anything but sit here in the safety of my shitter posting opinions with you assholes.  

I think you would need at least two generations of occupations to raise people up in a system that offers education combined with some black ops running a secular insurgency to offer an alternative for the disenfranchised without them joining a radicalized Islamic insurgency. But that would be risky as shit from both a practical and political level.