Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

10 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

You have got to be shitting me…

 

That’s not true. You can be Covid positive, but you will be seated on the exterior of the departing C-17s. 

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

2 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Chinese will show up looking for minerals with a big predatory loan package.  And I expect their interaction with Afghanistan will end just as badly. 

Was thinking this yesterday.  Russia, the US, now it’s China’s turn.

[phdhorn 6224]

This is just peachy:

The Russian foreign ministry has claimed the situation in Kabul “is stabilising” and that the militants have started to “restore public order”.

Russia, whose ambassador is due to meet with the Taliban on Tuesday, said the militants had vowed to “guarantee the safety of local people”, despite thousands of Afghans trying to flee the group’s hardline version of Islam.

Moscow confirmed it had “established working contacts with representatives of the new authorities”, AFP reports. The agency says:

Unlike Western countries, which scrambled to get their diplomats out of the country as the Taliban completed its military takeover of the country this weekend, Russia has said its embassy in Kabul will stay open.

Ambassador Dmitry Zhirnov told Russian state media that the Taliban had already started to guard his embassy.

Foreign ministry official Zamir Kabulov said on Monday that Russia would decide on recognising the new Taliban government based “on the conduct of the new authorities”.

Russia will take part in an emergency UN security council meeting on Afghanistan due later Monday.

The Kremlin has in recent years reached out to the Taliban and hosted its representatives in Moscow several times, most recently last month.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/16/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-evacuation-live-news-updates

[El Diablo 4232]

I was half asleep while listening to the radio last night but it seems like I heard we are trying to extract 30,000 Afghani allies as well as our own folks. 

[phdhorn 6224]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

That’s not true. You can be Covid positive, but you will be seated on the exterior of the departing C-17s. 

I've also heard if you fall off, they'll give you a $100 voucher.

[6th Street 6392]

7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Chinese will show up looking for minerals with a big predatory loan package.  And I expect their interaction with Afghanistan will end just as badly. 

Wait till the Tallies find out what the Chinese have done with the Muslim Uiguyrs

[Balcones 316]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Was thinking this yesterday.  Russia, the US, now it’s China’s turn.

China won’t try to fight anyone like Russia and US. They will probably be successful.

[Buzzrock 14918]

The influence and money will come from China, Iran, or both. It's gonna be fucking bad.

Don’t forget AQ coming home from Pakistan where they have definitely not been continually funded there.

[Goredho 17399]

10 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Not that it's the most important factor here by any means, but the GOP hive mind/propaganda machine has clearly pivoted from "immigrants are causing the COVID surge" to "Biden messed up Afghanistan" as their primary social media focus.

Tactical mistakes are being made, but they wouldn’t be necessary without the horrific strategic blunder to topple Afghanistan and try to build a new nation in its place.  We are eating a shit sandwich now because the neo-conmen stocked the fridge with nothing but shit.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

 

 

[Nivek 16923]

You know, we could severely cripple the global insurgent capabilities if we could just get Toyota to stop producing those Hilux trucks.

I am guessing those are older models. We need to hit the aftermarket factories.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

6 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I was half asleep while listening to the radio last night but it seems like I heard we are trying to extract 30,000 Afghani allies as well as our own folks. 

I think the question is "why now?". Why not months ago. This is a monumental fuck up.

[Buzzrock 14918]

My dude, you wanna bring up other adversarial nations funding of smaller adversaries in response to our nation's actions against them... Can't have your cake and eat it too

Other government activity is news. Our government activity is politics.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

8 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I've also heard if you fall off, they'll give you a $100 voucher.

They just need to admit that they’re following the Spirit operating playbook. 

[brakeman 28359]

1 hour ago, brakeman said:

[Neonmoon 38129]

2 hours ago, Chad said:

Shows how desperate they are to escape the Taliban.

[Enchubben 5510]

12 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I think the question is "why now?". Why not months ago. This is a monumental fuck up.

probably the same reasons we have to airlift people off rooftops during hurricanes. people are ignorant/stubborn/or are simply unable to leave until they have no other option until it's too late.

[wildcat09 29349]

47 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I haven’t kept up entirely with this, but is there any indication that the military we supposedly trained was full of taliban spies or sympathizers? I just can’t imagine this without a large scale refusal to fight. Almost seems that this is what the people we trained want to happen.

The Afghan government was extremely corrupt and wasn't paying them and the Taliban bribed them to stand down.

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

Within the next 5 years, there will be a terrorist attack on American soil. It won’t be a shooting rampage or bombs in the traditional sense. It will be chemical agents and radiological. 

33 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

This is just peachy:

The Russian foreign ministry has claimed the situation in Kabul “is stabilising” and that the militants have started to “restore public order”.

Russia, whose ambassador is due to meet with the Taliban on Tuesday, said the militants had vowed to “guarantee the safety of local people”, despite thousands of Afghans trying to flee the group’s hardline version of Islam.

Moscow confirmed it had “established working contacts with representatives of the new authorities”, AFP reports. The agency says:

Unlike Western countries, which scrambled to get their diplomats out of the country as the Taliban completed its military takeover of the country this weekend, Russia has said its embassy in Kabul will stay open.

Ambassador Dmitry Zhirnov told Russian state media that the Taliban had already started to guard his embassy.

Foreign ministry official Zamir Kabulov said on Monday that Russia would decide on recognising the new Taliban government based “on the conduct of the new authorities”.

Russia will take part in an emergency UN security council meeting on Afghanistan due later Monday.

The Kremlin has in recent years reached out to the Taliban and hosted its representatives in Moscow several times, most recently last month.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/16/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-evacuation-live-news-updates

Within the next 5 years, there will be an attack on American soil. It won’t be a shooting rampage or some ass wagon in a box truck mowing people down. It will be chemical agents and radiological sources. The more involved Russia gets the more I’m tempted to shorten that timeline.

[InkaUtexas 25907]

US sending in an additional 1000 troops. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The Afghan government was extremely corrupt and wasn't paying them and the Taliban bribed them to stand down.

I imagine local leaders saw the writing on the wall for years. As soon as the US leaves with their air support and money, the Taliban would come back in some form.

[52-80 19150]

52 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Not that it's the most important factor here by any means, but the GOP hive mind/propaganda machine has clearly pivoted from "immigrants are causing the COVID surge" to "Biden messed up Afghanistan" as their primary social media focus.

Quote

We went to Afghanistan in 2001... And I supported that military action, along with overwhelming majority of the members of Congress.

...

We will not conduct a hasty rush to the exit.  We’ll do it — we’ll do it responsibly, deliberately, and safely.  And we will do it in full coordination with our allies and partners, who now have more forces in Afghanistan than we do. 

GOP didn't say that.

[Captainant 27654]

[Message Board User 12395]

JFC.

 

[Nueces River Rat 5538]

23 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

This is just peachy:

The Russian foreign ministry has claimed the situation in Kabul “is stabilising” and that the militants have started to “restore public order”.

Russia, whose ambassador is due to meet with the Taliban on Tuesday, said the militants had vowed to “guarantee the safety of local people”, despite thousands of Afghans trying to flee the group’s hardline version of Islam.

Moscow confirmed it had “established working contacts with representatives of the new authorities”, AFP reports. The agency says:

Unlike Western countries, which scrambled to get their diplomats out of the country as the Taliban completed its military takeover of the country this weekend, Russia has said its embassy in Kabul will stay open.

Ambassador Dmitry Zhirnov told Russian state media that the Taliban had already started to guard his embassy.

Foreign ministry official Zamir Kabulov said on Monday that Russia would decide on recognising the new Taliban government based “on the conduct of the new authorities”.

Russia will take part in an emergency UN security council meeting on Afghanistan due later Monday.

The Kremlin has in recent years reached out to the Taliban and hosted its representatives in Moscow several times, most recently last month.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/16/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-evacuation-live-news-updates

Does Russia want another chance?    China?  Batter up and don't expect me to wish you bastards good luck.

Really I hope moving forward this has finally taught this nation a lesson on nation building.  In the last 100 years of warfare involving the United States, nation building only worked twice and that is because there wasn't a power in the world with the industrial machine and money to do it at the time other than the USA.  This would be the reconstruction of Germany, Europe(Marshall Plan) and Japan.  You had two populations who were beaten down by years of war and with Japan, had the threat of more nukes raining down on them along with the USSR entering the war. So this made a quick decision for the Japanese to agree to whatever we decided to do with them moving forward.  I guess one can make the case that nation building worked some what in South Korea... compared to their counterparts to the North.  But we had to back them up with a constant readiness of war since 1953, but it's worked if you are driving a Kia or have a Samsung phone.

One could argue both going into Vietnam and Afghanistan  were filled with good intentions.  But both were sand traps waiting to happen for the US, 20 years later after initial US involvement and ended much the same way with waisted dollars in the billions being spent, loss of American lives and young men/women coming back emotionally and physically scared for life.      NO MORE!     At least the Vietnamese were open to reconciliation a couple of decades later and have become a strategic partner in part to counter the Chinese.     We will never see this with the Taliban.   These bastards what more of our blood.  

So when the next 9/11 occurs (not if, but when),  this is what we should do.

Bomb and a destroy the perps hangouts along with the nation who refuse to hand over the murders .   Get in and do it with overwhelming force.  Tactical Nukes?  Might as fricken well do it in some of these no mans land counties like Afghanistan.   Level the mountains they hide out in.

 

Then send them a check for the collateral damage and let them figure it out.  Keep them within their borders with airpower supplied by the US Navy and drones controlled by a few operators at USAF bases in this side of the world.    

[Starfleet Command 441]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Then why didn't they expel him? Stop with the false narrative that the Taliban didn't support OBL and AQ. There is no evidence of that and overwhelming evidence that they did by allowing him to remain in the country.

The best you have is that the Taliban offered to talk about it if the US first stopped the bombing. And let's say you're right in that the Taliban would agree to letting OBL go to SA. That is supporting him.

Pakistan and SA gave far greater support to OBL than the Taliban, but neither were attacked by the US.  Hell, the US itself gave more material support to OBL than the Taliban.  

[Captainant 27654]

12 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Within the next 5 years, there will be a terrorist attack on American soil. It won’t be a shooting rampage or bombs in the traditional sense. It will be chemical agents and radiological. 

Within the next 5 years, there will be an attack on American soil. It won’t be a shooting rampage or some ass wagon in a box truck mowing people down. It will be chemical agents and radiological sources. The more involved Russia gets the more I’m tempted to shorten that timeline.

speaking of russia:

 

but it's ok - we have a """peace treaty""" with the taliban and the russians have never fucked with America

[Starfleet Command 441]

lol this was our case to NATO linking the Taliban with 9/11

Quote

One Western official at NATO said the briefings, which were oral, without slides or documents, did not report any direct order from Mr. bin Laden, nor did they indicate that the Taliban knew about the attacks before they happened.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/03/international/nato-says-us-has-proof-against-bin-laden-group.html

The Saudis are more directly linked to 9/11 than the Taliban but have been shielded from blame by the US government to this day.  That should be far more embarrassing and humiliating for Americans than the goat fuck happening now in Afghanistan.  

[tantric superman 4667]

1) Well, it's heartbreaking.

2) The women who made some gains in education and employment and leadership over there are fucked. 

Shame on everyone.

[Bateshorn 9927]

23 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I imagine local leaders saw the writing on the wall for years. As soon as the US leaves with their air support and money, the Taliban would come back in some form.

The Taliban never left.  They were just in the shadows, waiting us out. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bateshorn

[SimonBolivar 10958]

56 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I've also heard if you fall off, they'll give you a $100 voucher.

Yeah but it's only good for certain flights

 

[Brisketexan 105095]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Taliban never left.  They were just in the shadows, waiting us out. 

Bingo.  It's not a complex approach -- it's time-honored, and it works.  Shit, I use it to advise clients from time to time (especially when they are the David going up against Goliath) -- "just wait them out."   That's it.  All you have to do to win is to still be standing when the dust settles.  Goliath is good at making a ruckus, lots of noise and shit, but when you focus on the ultimate goal (say, long-term occupation of the territory), then the strategy of "just stay alive for when Goliath runs out of gas" is a winning strategy.

This is how "nation-building" exercises built on military power end.  It just is.

Didn't have to be this messy and cruel, but it was always going to end at least somewhat messy and cruel.

[52-80 19150]

9 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Taliban never left.  They were just in the shadows, waiting us out. 

so theyre basically kinda like herpes, or asymptomatic sars-cov-19.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

 

That’s not revisionist history. That was what was being reported even at the time. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

That article is from 7 days after the bombing began.

It says the taliban would require evidence that bin Ladin was behind the attacks which everyone knew he did. Then they wouldnt give him to America but some unspecified third country. Probably Pakistan. It wasn’t a serious offer by the taliban. 
 

Y’all can blame whoever you want but I lay the vast majority of it at the feet of Bush/Cheney for never articulating a clear plan, never even killing bin Ladin, staying there for 7 years with no plan, then starting a completely unnecessary distracting war with Iraq based on lies. 

[Smax 3800]

14 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I said exactly this to my buddy at work. The taliban wasn’t responsible for 9/11, but I guarantee you 90% of America doesn’t know the difference. 

Americans as a whole, are fucking stupid. This shouldn't be news to anyone here

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

39 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

US sending in an additional 1000 troops. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

8 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Taliban never left.  They were just in the shadows, waiting us out. 

Exactly. I imagine many of them worked with us. Not necessarily even as spies but as part of their everyday life. If a stronger force comes into your area, why wouldn't you work with them especially if you know it won't last forever. An occupying force has always left.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

17 minutes ago, Smax said:

Americans as a whole, are fucking stupid. 

If you on that platform then you have my vote.

[Brisketexan 105095]

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

It says the taliban would require evidence that bin Ladin was behind the attacks which everyone knew he did. Then they wouldnt give him to America but some unspecified third country. Probably Pakistan. It wasn’t a serious offer by the taliban. 

This.  It wasn't a serious offer and never was.  And yes, it is beyond dispute that the Taliban knowingly provided AQ with safe harbor to train and plan the attacks on the US.

I have no issue with us using force to take out a force that attacked us.  That force was AQ and OBL.  To the extent that another force is providing him active shelter and protection (e.g., the Taliban), pop them where they do so.  That should have been our mission.  Our mission ended up WAY beyond that, and that extended mission was doomed to fail.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

And like clockwork, the Republicans are putting all the blame on Biden, even though it is their former guy that started this withdrawal.  Fucking infuriating.

 

 

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

this aged well

 

[The Ace of Aces 5181]

Kudos to Biden for following through on this troop pulldown. 
 

It is wild to me Pompeo released the Taliban soon-to-be-president in 2018 then met with him in 2020 to broker a treaty. 
 

What is happening was going to happen regardless. You have to rip off the bandaid. Should’ve been done the day after Tora Bora. 

[DDD Dad 14332]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And like clockwork, the Republicans are putting all the blame on Biden, even though it is their former guy that started this withdrawal.  Fucking infuriating.

 

 

 

How did Crenshaw not see this coming?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

How did Crenshaw not see this coming?

[Js1 85311]

7 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And like clockwork, the Republicans are putting all the blame on Biden, even though it is their former guy that started this withdrawal.  Fucking infuriating.

 

 

 

There hasn't been a lot of polling on this, but the American public does not want to be there anymore.  End of story. Foreign policy itself was 6th in terms of importance for voters in 2020. 

The last public polling (early July) was 70% support for getting out (77% of Dems, 73% of indies and 56% of GOP) 

Also from Upshot (Nate Cohn) on people trying to draw parallels to Ford/Biden:

 

 

Good opinion piece: https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/567917-beltway-reporting-of-afghanistan-withdrawal-a-disservice-to-americans

Quote

It’s undeniable that the circumstances in Afghanistan have deteriorated much more quickly than the administration anticipated — or, at least, that it wanted to discuss publicly. But two main questions were left under-examined as the political media rushed to do what it too-often does: Find a simple D.C.-centric story thread and race to repeat it.

The most important issue: What do the American people want? Reports from outside the Beltway, looking for voter reaction, have been rare. But recent polling makes the answer clear. In one April survey, 73 percent of respondents approved of Biden’s plan to withdraw from Afghanistan. As late as last month, polls showed 57 percent supported ending the war.

In other words, the people who have for the past 20 years been asked to do the fighting — or to send loved ones far away, tour-after-tour, as the conflict dragged on — have said “Enough is enough.” Their voices should count for something, yet their point of view was largely missing from reports out of Washington this past week.

 

['stache 21802]

11 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

How did Crenshaw not see this coming?

He did see it but thought it would only be half as bad.

[Js1 85311]

My point to the above:  the media is racing to make leaving Afghanistan a political story, and not a story of the thousands of American troops and their families who have had to suffer for a pointless 2 decade war that the American public no longer has the appetite for.   They are still pushing viewpoints from the mid-00s and not 2021. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

 

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Only a month ago

 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

My point to the above:  the media is racing to make leaving Afghanistan a political story, and not a story of the thousands of American troops and their families who have had to suffer for a pointless 2 decade war that the American public no longer has the appetite for.   They are still pushing viewpoints from the mid-00s and not 2021. 

This is what is so infuriating.  I was listening to MSNBC earlier and they were ripping Biden and his administration for everything going on in Afghanistan and they had some R congressman on saying this is all Biden’s fault and Trump would have never let this happen.  I can’t imagine what Fox and OAN are saying right now.  It is too bad that the media can’t tell the whole story since they probably realize that most people in this country are too stupid to understand it.  The same people yelling about getting out of Afghanistan last year and that Trump was great to do start the process will be yelling at the top of their lungs that we need to invade Afghanistan and take out the Taliban.  I bet the R’s start to campaign on going back to war in Afghanistan and their base will eat it up.