Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[elfenix 34330]

21 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The Taliban pledged support of it two years prior.  These assholes still need some level of support from the general population, and they don't get that stating they are going to oppose construction projects which will provide a long term revenue stream.  (Shit is still going to get blowed up by someone. )

 

 Feb2018

i remember back in 2000 or so predictions that bush would start a war in afghanistan to get that fucking pipeline built.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

14 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

 

Especially as it seems to be increasingly coming out that he ignored his military advisors and intelligence...

I heard some reports this morning pitting it as intel vs military. Intel was doing what they do and putting all the blame on the stupid military who just wouldn't listen to the smart intel community. CYA mode 100%

['stache 21825]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

TLDR: without a homegrown military that wanted to resist, every bit of "nation building" was pointless.

Yup. I think the people who want out should be given asylum the remainders can live their dream of religious dictatorship/caliphate. We can't fix them.

[Muy Frio 182]

9 minutes ago, Rip76 said:

One very weird thing I’ve noticed is that most ALL media sources are basically saying that Biden f’ed this up pretty badly.  Not something you see daily from all sources.

Just an observation.

That’s because the media generally cheers on the war machine. About the only thing his predecessor was universally cheered for was bombing somebody.

IMO it’s been time to leave for a while now, but it appears to have been planned poorly and executed even worse. 

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

17 minutes ago, XYZ said:

 All you have to do is instill fear in people and then offer a “fix” and people will lap it up. It’s what we do.

Seems to be more than one thread on this site about something like this.....

[Rip76 4946]

1 minute ago, Muy Frio said:

That’s because the media generally cheers on the war machine. About the only thing his predecessor was universally cheered for was bombing somebody.

IMO it’s been time to leave for a while now, but it appears to have been planned poorly and executed even worse. 

I agree they do.

May be something more than that.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Yup. I think the people who want out should be given asylum the remainders can live their dream of religious dictatorship/caliphate. We can't fix them.

Sir, they are incredibly brown.

[Captainant 27686]

(noCR, posting for newsworthiness considering the subject)

Scheduled start for 2:45CT (now)

[Assman 1830]

1 hour ago, Muy Frio said:

From what I’ve read a simple way to have made this all go smoother would’ve been to wait to pull out during the cooler months. Evidently half the year it’s too cold for massive mobilization of forces like the Taliban just did. Looks like we have a lot of posters who did tours over there that could fact check that. 

The Spring I was there, when the snow in the foothills starting melting, that's when the mortars lobbed our way increased exponentially. Then you got to experience this light show every night:

 

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

3 hours ago, Message Board User said:

JFC.

 

Saw that earlier today.

Yet she took the time to put on a Hajib.....ummmm why? Thought they were friendly? Then she moves to the side and cowers as they tell her to move. Women (girls too) from 14 on up and are being rounded up by the new, more friendly Taliban. And it isn't because they are concerned for their safety.

[Blotto 23560]

13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i remember back in 2000 or so predictions that bush would start a war in afghanistan to get that fucking pipeline built.

Things have changed since 2000. Why do we have such a hardon for getting that pipline built? I thought Unocal and other US corps were largely removed from that project. Anybody follow that project enough to know what US interests remain? Why is it as strategic today as it was 20 years go? 

Quote

If completed, the $10 billion pipeline will deliver 33 billion cubic meters (bcm) of gas per year from Turkmenistan’s Galkynish field, the world’s second-largest, to energy-hungry Pakistan and India. It will run along the Kandahar–Herat highway, in Afghanistan, to Quetta and Multan, in Pakistan, and on to Fazilka, India (Adb.org, accessed March 28). The pipeline will pass through Afghanistan’s Herat Province, which the Taliban controls. However, the Taliban has pledged to support the pipeline’s construction, provided no companies or development agencies from the United States are involved (Lenta.ru, March 5).

Turkmenistan’s state-owned Turkmengaz is the leader of the consortium that will operate TAPI, with 85 percent ownership. ISGS of Pakistan, Afghan Gas Enterprise, and India’s GAIL will each have a 5 percent stake. The Asian Development Bank, which has been involved in TAPI since its inception in the mid-1990s, is the project’s key financial advisor.

 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

TLDR: without a homegrown military that wanted to resist, every bit of "nation building" was pointless.

Well, there is the thing about not being able to give people democracy. God knows we try. Except when they elect someone we don't like and in that case authoritarian assholes are just fine.

[Brisketexan 105170]

1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

Well, there is the thing about not being able to give people democracy. God knows we try. Except when they elect someone we don't like and in that case authoritarian assholes are just fine.

I'm sorry.....are you talking about some bassackwards shithole country where the authoritarian in power doesn't like the outcome of the election, so he calls on his loyalist forces to attack the opposition forces in the government, attacking the national capitol and hunting down members of the opposition to execute them?

Or are you talking about someplace like Afghanistan?

[GhostOfTomJoad 9341]

"I am the President of the United States of America and the buck stops with me."

 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I'm sorry.....are you talking about some bassackwards shithole country where the authoritarian in power doesn't like the outcome of the election, so he calls on his loyalist forces to attack the opposition forces in the government, attacking the national capitol and hunting down members of the opposition to execute them?

Or are you talking about someplace like Afghanistan?

Chile and Allende. I suppose we can find others too.

[Muy Frio 182]

36 minutes ago, Captainant said:

(noCR, posting for newsworthiness considering the subject)

Scheduled start for 2:45CT (now)

No questions afterward. 

['stache 21825]

I hate being cynical, but it's pretty clear they did the political research and are confident this won't hurt his reelection chances in 2016 (or whoever he supports from the democratic party if he doesn't run for a second term). As was discussed above, I think they're right. Trump supported it, republicans support it too. They'll pretend they don't but it won't matter. The swing voters support this and won't give a shit about the fox news flip flopping. He'll be fine politically and we can finally end this nonsense.

[babysdaddy 2725]

His entire speech focused on why we were leaving, which is fine and has support across the board.  But the criticism is 100% about the how, which he didn't touch.  That speech is just going to embolden his political opponents.  The no question walk off didn't look great either.

[Satchel 6938]

Barbara Lee’s principled stance caused her to receive all kinds of death threats:

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Satchel

[Michael Knight 12989]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Only a month ago

 

like facts have ever mattered

 

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

8 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

"I am the President of the United States of America and the buck stops with me."

 

you can only imagine if it was Trump giving this speech. He would be blaming Obama for leaving him with a mess so it's Obama's fault.

[HiggyBaby 2543]

We won't go back.
Congressional Rs will go full Benghazi though if they take back the House and try to derail Biden 2024 for this.

Going back won’t be the talking point. But I’ll bet the Isis and Al Queda terrorism talking points are getting warmed up.

[4th&Five 41570]

 

[Tuco 5076]

6 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

His entire speech focused on why we were leaving, which is fine and has support across the board.  But the criticism is 100% about the how, which he didn't touch.  That speech is just going to embolden his political opponents.  The no question walk off didn't look great either.

Do you think Joe Biden, personally, planned the how?  Yeah, he's President, and he's going to take the heat for the how, but do you really think there is anything he could have said to address it.  

[Brisketexan 105170]

9 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

His entire speech focused on why we were leaving, which is fine and has support across the board.  But the criticism is 100% about the how, which he didn't touch.  That speech is just going to embolden his political opponents.  The no question walk off didn't look great either.

Not so sure I agree with your police work there, Lou.  It polled well....but the right wing news sources are absolutely all turning this into broad criticism of us leaving, period.  As expected.  Kind of like how they don't give a shit about the deficit until a Dem is in office.  Again, to be expected.

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

you can only imagine if it was Trump giving this speech. He would be blaming Obama for leaving him with a mess so it's Obama's fault.

100% this.

And again, I DO think that the admin botched the execution and planning for this, most importantly with respect to our allies there who deserve a chance to GTFO and not be killed.  That part was NEVER going to go perfectly (and the last admin's significant restriction on those peoples' ability to get an American visa didn't help in the runup to this point), but it didn't have to go this badly.

[David Dennison 18939]

12 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

His entire speech focused on why we were leaving, which is fine and has support across the board.  But the criticism is 100% about the how, which he didn't touch.  That speech is just going to embolden his political opponents.  The no question walk off didn't look great either.

He could let a loose fart and it would embolden his political opponents. 

The White House knows the American people don't care enough about Afghanistan or foreign policy for this to matter politically.

[Muy Frio 182]

Not sure if this is reap but I laughed. 
 

 

[Michael Knight 12989]

What's happening there has been going on for 40 years now. Millions of civilians have been tortured, raped, intimidated, and murdered. This is just the first time we're watching it on TV and it only feels bad because we're "taking a loss". Nothing is going to change for the people of Afghanistan just the person whos picture they see.

[hpslugga 4062]

31 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Chile and Allende. I suppose we can find others too.

Iran and Mossadegh.

But do you want to know what all those have in common?

[crash_davis 23114]

So after 20 or so years of training these dudes, they couldn't put up a fight for more than a couple of weeks? 

As someone said upthread, I guess most all of the men switched sides as soon as we left in the middle of the night. The optics for Biden is deservedly shitty. But it's self evident that we can't help those who don't want to help themselves. Snuck out in the middle of the night versus another year to prep and plan for the withdrawal, the outcome was going to be the same. The men want to live in the 19th century. 

[Hmbre97 6325]

Live look at the Afghan army seeing off the US troops

 

 

[babysdaddy 2725]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Not so sure I agree with your police work there, Lou.  It polled well....but the right wing news sources are absolutely all turning this into broad criticism of us leaving, period.  As expected.  Kind of like how they don't give a shit about the deficit until a Dem is in office.  Again, to be expected.

 

Every single thing I've watched is the the MSM calling out the administration on the how and not the why.  And there is broad support by both dems and pubs on leaving as has been pointed out by others on this thread.  70% support if I'm not mistaken.    

[Not a cat 5660]

I read that the Taliban told the regular army soldiers they could quit now and go home and nobody would fuck with them.  But if they fought and lost, shit was gonna get real.

Seems they made a business decision.

[ousuxndallas 65]

Leaving is the right call, the way we left was completely mismanaged.

[Hook1997 5397]

1 hour ago, Rip76 said:

One very weird thing I’ve noticed is that most ALL media sources are basically saying that Biden f’ed this up pretty badly.  Not something you see daily from all sources.

Just an observation.

Because we should have already setup a plan a long time ago to get people out of the country before the shit hit the fan.  Embassy workers, interpreters working with us the whole time that wanted to leave, western contractors, ect.  A plan to not leave a ton of useable vehicles, weapons, ect.  You are going to tell me intelligence agencies didn’t know this is exactly what would happen when we left?   Also probably would have happened under the last administration too.  Shitty exit plans are our MO.  

[Brisketexan 105170]

1 minute ago, ousuxndallas said:

Leaving is the right call, the way we left was completely mismanaged.

Agreed.  And this admin doesn't get to skate on that failure.

Just a side question: the decision to leave was made months ago.  Under a different admin.  Did that admin have a plan in place to execute our departure so it WOULDN'T be a shitshow?  Nope?  Okay then.  So long as you understand that our Afghanistan adventure was a bi-partisan policy failure, damned near from start to finish, then you are close to getting it.

[Js1 85449]

17 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

What's happening there has been going on for 40 years now. Millions of civilians have been tortured, raped, intimidated, and murdered. This is just the first time we're watching it on TV and it only feels bad because we're "taking a loss". Nothing is going to change for the people of Afghanistan just the person whos picture they see.

America could stand to take a few Ls to get humbled.  

['stache 21825]

He was pretty harsh on Afghan forces. I was holding off being too critical, but it's straight from the president's mouth. They have no interest in fighting the taliban. So be it. Again, we cannot fix the world's problems. There are humanitarian crisis much closer to home, including in Central America, which we can spend money working on if we really want to stop refugee caravans at the southern border. To be clear, I don't necessarily recommend that, since we always seem to bungle it and end up creating dictatorships, but if anyone could get it done, it would be this president over other recent presidents.

[phdhorn 6224]

Looks like the "newer, nicer" Taliban is off and running!

 

[Tuco 5076]

5 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Every single thing I've watched is the the MSM calling out the administration on the how and not the why.  And there is broad support by both dems and pubs on leaving as has been pointed out by others on this thread.  70% support if I'm not mistaken.    

They are calling out the repercussions of the action.  It's easy to pretend there is some way the decision to leave wouldn't have repercussions, but it's bullshit. 

This is Senator Sasse's comment:

Quote

 

n a statement, the Nebraska senator said that “the unmitigated disaster in Afghanistan – the shameful, Saigon-like abandonment of Kabul, the brutalization of Afghan women, and the slaughter of our allies – is the predictable outcome of the Trump-Biden doctrine of weakness.

“History must be clear about this: American troops didn’t lose this war – Donald Trump and Joe Biden deliberately decided to lose.”

 

They lead with the repercussions, and then pivot to the decision itself.  They "deliberately decided to lose."  The "doctrine of weakness." 

And this shitstain pretends he is some sort of Constitutional originalist who cries out for a return to small government policy.  Bullshit.  

[elfenix 34330]

 

[Brisketexan 105170]

2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

They are calling out the repercussions of the action.  It's easy to pretend there is some way the decision to leave wouldn't have repercussions, but it's bullshit. 

This is Senator Sasse's comment:

They lead with the repercussions, and then pivot to the decision itself.  They "deliberately decided to lose."  The "doctrine of weakness." 

And this shitstain pretends he is some sort of Constitutional originalist who cries out for a return to small government policy.  Bullshit.  

This.  There is no alternative in his mind that isn't some version of "foreverwar."  Fuck him.

[BabaYaga 15302]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Agreed.  And this admin doesn't get to skate on that failure.

Just a side question: the decision to leave was made months ago.  Under a different admin.  Did that admin have a plan in place to execute our departure so it WOULDN'T be a shitshow?  Nope?  Okay then.  So long as you understand that our Afghanistan adventure was a bi-partisan policy failure, damned near from start to finish, then you are close to getting it.

What does it even matter?  The new administration is the new administration, and the NEW administration had more than half a year to plan an exit strategy and execute it.  Whether there was a plan or not at that time doesn't account for whether they would have something ready to execute at the time of the withdrawal, or to change the date and buy more time.  What was Joe's line in the debates - the buck stops with him?

[phdhorn 6224]

I also heard today on TV that there's a shitload, perhaps several thousand, Americans and Afghan friendlies who are stuck in Kabul and can't get to the airport.

Taliban might let some of those foreign journalists through, but I would bet the Afghan friendlies won't get much farther than the local soccer stadium for this sunday's family entertainment. I've seen several sources now that say the Taliban are already executing people in Kabul who cooperated with the U.S.

Edited August 16, 2021 by phdhorn

[BabaYaga 15302]

5 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

Looks like the "newer, nicer" Taliban is off and running!

 

It's going to be a bloodbath

[babysdaddy 2725]

Just now, Tuco said:

They are calling out the repercussions of the action.  It's easy to pretend there is some way the decision to leave wouldn't have repercussions, but it's bullshit. 

This is Senator Sasse's comment:

They lead with the repercussions, and then pivot to the decision itself.  They "deliberately decided to lose."  The "doctrine of weakness." 

And this shitstain pretends he is some sort of Constitutional originalist who cries out for a return to small government policy.  Bullshit.  

What are you mad about?  That Biden is getting hammered?  Did you expect everyone to just throw up their hands and say "welp, see you later"?  The images and videos coming out ruined that potential outcome.

[BabaYaga 15302]

7 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I also heard today on TV that there's a shitload, perhaps several thousand, Americans and Afghan friendlies who are stuck in Kabul pool and can't get to the airport.

Taliban might let some of those foreign journalists through, but I would bet the Afghan friendlies won't get much farther than the local soccer stadium for this sunday's family entertainment. I've seen several sources now that say the Taliban are already executing people in Kabul who cooperated with the I.S.

Know what's a really good way to help enemies mobilize and coordinate?  A predetermined date for a certain action.  Ok, you're stuck with the date.  Fine.  Alternative then?  Start long before that date extricating tens of thousands of people at risk months in advance, knowing were they to be left behind they'd be slaughtered.

Just spit-balling here...Kurds out front should have told you

Edited August 16, 2021 by BabaYaga

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Did that admin have a plan in place to execute our departure so it WOULDN'T be a shitshow?  Nope?  Okay then. 

How do you know? Maybe they had a plan. A big beautiful plan. Best plan. 

[Schulz2.0 28985]

25 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

So after 20 or so years of training these dudes, they couldn't put up a fight for more than a couple of weeks? 

As someone said upthread, I guess most all of the men switched sides as soon as we left in the middle of the night. The optics for Biden is deservedly shitty. But it's self evident that we can't help those who don't want to help themselves. Snuck out in the middle of the night versus another year to prep and plan for the withdrawal, the outcome was going to be the same. The men want to live in the 19th century. 

We unconditionally pulled air support. They realized they were in for death or worse and surrendered. Most people fight if they think they have a chance to win.

[DDD Dad 14344]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

How do you know? Maybe they had a plan. A big beautiful plan. Best plan. 

It will be revealed in two weeks.