Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Assman 1830]

I feel for the troops at HKIA right now and the ones en route.  How the fuck are they going to get out of there?  Once they start moving out, at some point, there is going to be nothing holding back the locals or the Taliban from doing whatever they please.  I pray our dudes on the ground and the aircrew bringing them out get out of there safely.

[Born to Run 6569]

These guys are fish in a barrel, and our only hope is if the taliban aren’t going to harm any western civilians only to get leveled from the sky if they so choose to. Someone needs to drag Biden out of camp David that fucking chode.

So you are cool with 10k of Muslims moving here as asylum seekers. I thought that was your fear....

your posting says you are dumb af

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

Was listening to NPR driving home and they had a story of reaction around the world. Many leaders are blaming the U.S. for everything. These are the same leaders who either never sent troops, or pulled them out 5 years ago. But yes, it's all our fault. 

The buck stops with us. We were slow getting people out. 

I am not a fan announced withdrawals. 

I can't imagine how those pilots felt seeing people clinging to the aircraft. Brutal.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

So you are cool with 10k of Muslims moving here as asylum seekers. I thought that was your fear....

your posting says you are dumb af

Seek asylum when they’re citizens?


You’re dumb af

[Nivek 16923]

Yeah, apparently as soon as Trump agreed to a “peace” deal so we could leave, the Taliban started making deals to get the Afghan security forces to lay down their arms. I assume they got paid to just quit and go home. The few who tried to fight back were captured and summarily executed. Did you see the video of the thirteen men and a boy lying dead with their hands bound behind their backs? What did the Afghan army have to fight for, anyway? A corrupt government that turned tail and fled the country? And without American air support they were never much of a fighting force anyway.
At least the Taliban doesn’t have the wherewithal to operate or maintain the aircraft we left behind. But they might sell some of it to China. 

What did they have to fight for? Themselves, their kids, their wives, their daughters….. I guess not much.

I saw the woman mayor basically gave up on Twitter saying she is waiting to be murdered now. Then get a fucking gun or bomb your own house and kill the motherfuckers that enter it. Fuck being passively murdered.

[Nivek 16923]

I still laugh people thought his crazy cave fortresses existed. 

Looks like something Cobra had in the old cartoons. And also similar to my brothers Iwo Jima mountain we used to battle over.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Looks like something Cobra had in the old cartoons. And also similar to my brothers Iwo Jima mountain we used to battle over.

And the Navarone playset

 

Which was a precursor to

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That would have been a terrible blunder if OBL was hiding out in Tahiti and we invaded Afghanistan.

Bora Bora = depot island in the Pacific Theater

Tora Tora = movie about shooting down Japanese planes

Tora Bora = rad lair

I’m still not entirely sure that dropping a nuke on Tora Bora wouldn’t have been a good idea. Whisk our people out of there and tell all our hired guns from the Northern Alliance to run like hell and don’t look back. Tell everyone concerned not to fuck with us again or we’ll come back and the next time we won’t be so nice. 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

What did they have to fight for? Themselves, their kids, their wives, their daughters….. I guess not much.

That’s exactly what they had to surrender for. Fight back and they all are likely to die, some getting tortured and/or raped in the process. Meanwhile the Afghani leadership who’ve been skimming money off the top of years of U.S. aid are fleeing the country. They know they can’t win. Do they fight and die for a failed cause or do they try to escape with their skin intact? What would you do?

Its a simple calculation. 

[52-80 19150]

13 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That’s exactly what they had to surrender for. Fight back and they all are likely to die, some getting tortured and/or raped in the process. Meanwhile the Afghani leadership who’ve been skimming money off the top of years of U.S. aid are fleeing the country. They know they can’t win. Do they fight and die for a failed cause or do they try to escape with their skin intact? What would you do?

Its a simple calculation. 

i would fight

 

for my right

 

toooo parrtttttyyyyy

[956 Worldwide 34705]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

I don't fault our NATO allies that went in at the beginning and hung around for a fucking decade. They shed blood too and met their treaty obligations. They got out when we should've. Just admit it, we've bungled the whole thing since Bora Bora.

We had NATO Allies there till the very end. And though its easy to turn up your nose at the relatively small contingents— these are often small countries in a fight they didn’t start. A lot of those units fought bravely. The Dutch, for instance, spent their time atoning for Srbrenica by being as aggressive as possible.

And virtually all of them were SCREAMING that the pullout would be a shitshow. The same ones who warned us that Iraq would be a shitshow and we should focus on Afghanistan. 
 

It is our own peculiar blessing that the US probably had more genuine Allies and friends who wish us well than any empire in history. And it’s our own peculiar curse that we can’t bring ourselves to listen to their advice now and again. We’re like a junkie at an intervention who is addicted to our own brand of hopium.

[Gourmand 7774]

There's a lot that can be said about this idiotic interminable war, but behind all the finger-pointing and blistering US foreign policy critiques, I can't stop thinking about the passage of time and how old this makes me feel. Twenty fucking years of war. 9/11 feels like not long ago yet there's an entire generation that graduated high school since the attack and our retaliatory response against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. It feels like yesterday to me, but my life went on for two decades while US troops fought an unwinnable war in Asia. For nothing. 

I'm glad it's over but what a colossal waste of money and lives. Twenty years of fighting of a war that could never be won. The fact that the Afghan government collapsed so fast isn't proof that we should've stayed, it proves that we should have left a long time ago.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Gourmand

[52-80 19150]

1 hour ago, Gourmand said:

There's a lot that can be said about this idiotic interminable war, but behind all the finger-pointing and blistering US foreign policy critiques, I can't stop thinking about the passage of time and how old this makes me feel. Twenty fucking years of war. 9/11 feels like not long ago yet there's an entire generation that graduated high school since the attack and our retaliatory response against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. It feels like yesterday to me, but my life went on for two decades while US troops fought an unwinnable war in Asia. For nothing. 

I'm glad it's over but what a colossal waste of money and lives. Twenty years of fighting of a war that could never be won. The fact that the Afghan government collapsed so fast isn't proof that we should've stayed, it proves that we should have left a long time ago.

 

yeah thats wild as shit to think about.  there are kids in college now, who were born when the war had already started.  its their lifetime.

[staboner 4969]

hey friends whats up? oh i see

Afghanistan? I thought we had a chance to do something here. Also, what is it we were doing? 

Good news is there are many other people we can drop bombs on. Why limit to just the Afghanis? Explore the space I say. 

 

 

[52-80 19150]

https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-august-16-2021/

Quote

Additionally, the UN Security Council issued a joint press statement earlier today calling for a new government that is united, inclusive, and representative – including with the full and meaningful participation of women. The council spoke with one voice to underscore that Afghanistan must abide by its international obligations – including to international humanitarian law – and ensure the safety and security of all Afghans and international citizens.

 

with politicians this fucking tone-deaf and brain-dead, is it any wonder 20 years were spent in afghanistan achieving fuck-all?

[Bullneck 19078]

4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That’s exactly what they had to surrender for. Fight back and they all are likely to die, some getting tortured and/or raped in the process. Meanwhile the Afghani leadership who’ve been skimming money off the top of years of U.S. aid are fleeing the country. They know they can’t win. Do they fight and die for a failed cause or do they try to escape with their skin intact? What would you do?

Its a simple calculation. 

Been thinking about this.  I'm sure the exiled president will turn up in Cannes shortly.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

6 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

These guys are fish in a barrel, and our only hope is if the taliban aren’t going to harm any western civilians only to get leveled from the sky if they so choose to. Someone needs to drag Biden out of camp David that fucking chode.

 

My bet is that an American could walk down the street in Kabul and not be harmed today. The Taliban are days away from their goal so they wouldn’t screw it up. Would I recommend openly walking down the street? No.

why are thousands of non-military Americans still in Afghanistan?

[Enchubben 5510]

10 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

dusty

Yikes, that’s pretty damning of the current admin. Not even responding to the requests to evacuate these folks until 2 days ago?  Shit even Congress came together months ago to try and get it done.

[956 Worldwide 34705]

28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

My bet is that an American could walk down the street in Kabul and not be harmed today. The Taliban are days away from their goal so they wouldn’t screw it up. Would I recommend openly walking down the street? No.

why are thousands of non-military Americans still in Afghanistan?

We admitted a lot of Afghan refugees during the Soviet War and some after 2001 under the special immigrant visa program and others. Plenty of them have gained citizenship and had kids. Plenty of of them went back especially after 2001 to do various jobs, go back to family…and yes, to marry off their American underage daughters to “decent Afghan homes.” (This last point is disturbingly more common than any advocate for increased immigration would care to either know or admit).

The profile of the people who are still there is not Bill from Topeka, it’s more likely Farah who was born in the U.S. and sent back at some point. But it’s still thousands of blue passport holders who need to get out. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13510]

41 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We admitted a lot of Afghan refugees during the Soviet War and some after 2001 under the special immigrant visa program and others. Plenty of them have gained citizenship and had kids. Plenty of of them went back especially after 2001 to do various jobs, go back to family…and yes, to marry off their American underage daughters to “decent Afghan homes.” (This last point is disturbingly more common than any advocate for increased immigration would care to either know or admit).

The profile of the people who are still there is not Bill from Topeka, it’s more likely Farah who was born in the U.S. and sent back at some point. But it’s still thousands of blue passport holders who need to get out. 

Good point that I immediately think of a pale guy from Topeka wandering around Afghanistan when Americans are mentioned. You’re correct that many people from Afghanistan or one generation removed, could easily be there.

[alincoln 2371]

The Afghanistan conflict (and the Iraq wars for that matter) achieved exactly what they were intended to.  Preserving and enriching the military-industrial complex beyond its wildest dreams.  It was a stunning success for those traitors who are now either worm food or relaxing in their beachfront compound in Naples while the world burns.  

You have to wonder where we would be today without hanging chads.  Meanwhile, W is now almost celebrated by corporate media as a goofy amateur painter who sneaks candy to his buddy Michelle O at events involving the past Presidents.    

[Bateshorn 9927]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

yeah thats wild as shit to think about.  there are kids in college now, who were born when the war had already started.  its their lifetime.

My oldest was born 4 days after 9/11, I had to evacuate the Hill with his mom during the attack. 
 

The AUMF and the War of Terror has gone on so long, I’ve aged out of draft status and had a child age in.  And if they don’t repeal that abomination by February, I’ll have a second child qualify.  
 

 

[Guest Lobo]

8 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That would have been a terrible blunder if OBL was hiding out in Tahiti and we invaded Afghanistan.

Bora Bora = depot island in the Pacific Theater

Tora Tora = movie about shooting down Japanese planes

Tora Bora = rad lair

Typical fucking Al Qaeda Realtors:  His "mountain fortress of elaborate caves" just minutes from Tora Bora ends up being a lame split-level 4/2 in the suburbs of Abbottabad with a shitty yard and underperforming schools. 

[Balcones 316]

9 hours ago, lmao said:

Obama & Trump inherited this clusterfuck & kicked the can down the road. We knew at some point we were going to have to rip the bandaid off but no one wanted to take the heat. Not a fan of Biden but he's going to take the brunt of this when there are so many people that should held accountable for probably the biggest blunder in U.S. history. I still contend that the Bush/Cheney admin was the worst in modern American history & we will continue to pay for their mistakes for the foreseeable future. 

Obama by himself kicked the can, but Bush/Cheney is a team. I see how this works. 

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

i would fight

 

for my right

 

toooo parrtttttyyyyy

If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is "poontang."

[Balcones 316]

14 minutes ago, alincoln said:

The Afghanistan conflict (and the Iraq wars for that matter) achieved exactly what they were intended to.  Preserving and enriching the military-industrial complex beyond its wildest dreams.  It was a stunning success for those traitors who are now either worm food or relaxing in their beachfront compound in Naples while the world burns.  

You have to wonder where we would be today without hanging chads.  Meanwhile, W is now almost celebrated by corporate media as a goofy amateur painter who sneaks candy to his buddy Michelle O at events involving the past Presidents.    

Biden is equally a celebrated truck driver/professor who enjoys ice cream. 
 

We haven’t had an AQ attack on US soil since 9/11/01. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[lmao 178]

12 hours ago, The Ace of Aces said:

The US stuff will be inop within 2 months. They’re not going to stop using all the Russian gear they’ve used the late 70s. It’ll never not work. 

The Kalashnikov's & Toyota's aren't going anywhere.

[Muy Frio 182]

11 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

dusty

Whoa whoa whoa I’m not just going to sit aside while Mr Zeller plays the blame game. This isn’t the time! Didn’t he get the memo?

 

 

[David Dennison 18854]

7 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Let them take the political shots all day long. They are only preaching to their base. No one's vote is going to change because Joe Biden led a haphazard exit from Afghanistan.

[Goredho 17399]

Wtf, it is really hard to maintain my freedom boner through this.  Thanks, Obiden!

[thrillhammer 683]

i shouldnt be surprised at the uproar over this but i am.  this was inevitable from the get go.  this was always going to happen.  the afghan people need to decide what kind of people they want to follow and consider leaders.  we cant make them choose.  we propped them at a great expense of dollars and american lives.  it's their battle now.  

[52-80 19150]

28 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Typical fucking Al Qaeda Realtors:  His "mountain fortress of elaborate caves" just minutes from Tora Bora ends up being a lame split-level 4/2 in the suburbs of Abbottabad with a shitty yard and underperforming schools. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

18 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Let them take the political shots all day long. They are only preaching to their base. No one's vote is going to change because Joe Biden led a haphazard exit from Afghanistan.

It's a hobby of mine to point out the glaring hypocrisy. This episode in the crazy ass timeline has provided ample opportunity.

[Js1 85311]

Just now, cactusflinthead said:

It's a hobby of mine to point out the glaring hypocrisy. This episode in the crazy ass timeline has provided ample opportunity.

That’s true and not at all surprising coming from Slimy Lyin Ted

[DDD Dad 14332]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes....and no.  Sending a shitload of troops because "DO SOMETHING!" is never a good plan.  Put a bunch of boots back on the ground in a rapidly deteriorating situation without a well-defined objective and instructions on how to achieve it?  Bad idea jeans.

Come up with a way to get our citizens out, and if that needs to involve sending troops to get them and evacuate them, great.  Come up with a plan, including a plan that keeps those choppers and planes from being blown up as they try to take off, and let's do it.

What if we sent in someone with a movie script?

[cactusflinthead 27598]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

That’s true and not at all surprising coming from Slimy Lyin Ted

There are more examples in the thread. He's such a smarmy prick I can't resist giving him verbal jabs every chance I get.

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

39 minutes ago, Balcones said:

Obama by himself kicked the can, but Bush/Cheney is a team. I see how this works. 

Are you arguing that Biden and Cheney had equal amounts of influence with respect to foreign policy decisions or military engagement within their administrations while VP?

[phdhorn 6224]

9 hours ago, Assman said:

I feel for the troops at HKIA right now and the ones en route.  How the fuck are they going to get out of there?  Once they start moving out, at some point, there is going to be nothing holding back the locals or the Taliban from doing whatever they please.  I pray our dudes on the ground and the aircrew bringing them out get out of there safely.

This is the gist of several of my posts yesterday (and a WP article).  There are an estimated (very roughly, obviously) 5-10 K Americans somewhere in Kabul/Afghanistan.

The only way I can see any of them successfully getting to the airport is for the Taliban to let them pass w/o any holdups.  For a few days or a week they might.  But at some point it's inevitable that the "newer, softer Taliban" is going to do what they want to do in their minds - adhere to Sharia Law again and start slamming the lid on anything resembling freedom.

Do you see a Black Hawk Down scenario here?  I do, or far worse if this thing gets too far out of 6-7 days - this isn't just a city with a buncha zombies running around with full autos and .50 cals on a few Toyotas - this is an entire country of millions of guys with weapons (and some heavy) that can converge on Kabul and cause death and destruction on an unparalled basis.

Unless the Taliban just shrugs all of this off for a bit.  Maybe they will. What do you think the encounters will be like if they start to happen?

Edited August 17, 2021 by phdhorn

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

There’s a subset of neo cons who still hold a copy of Fukuyama’s “End of History”* under their pillows and will gnash their teeth and bleet when faced with reality that America alone cannot flex military might indefinitely. 
 

I believe everyone understands 1) the military didn’t have a clear mission in Afghanistan and 2) the US involvement had to end. I think a lot of criticism is about the way we are withdrawing, and also from GOP who have been dying for anything of substance to bitch about in advance of midterms. This plays nicely into the GOP attacks for the last 40 years that Dems are weak on National Defense, so everyone is racing to get in front of a microphone or write an op-ed. I can do without the performative “gotcha” game. Ending the military mission in Afghanistan is the right thing to do 
 

*Fukuyama himself basically admitted 15 years later that this premise was garbage 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

It sounds like Afghanistan is about to be raped and pillaged by those with the means (read: China/Russia) to come in and set up operations mining the crap out of their minerals and lithium. Afghanistan is estimated to have $3T worth of mineral wealth in the ground.

What I'm confused about geopolitically is Afghanistan's relationship to the rest of the Arab brothers. The Middle East seem to look at each other communally, in some ways, that Afghanistan doesn't get the benefit of. Afghanistan, with some Arab help and the right leadership and culture, could have been an up-and-coming mini-Qatar or something with their natural resources. Instead they are essentially Arab Aggies, drinking ranch water dirty well water and tending to goats while 'Bama China/Russia abuses them and drinks their milkshake.

And ultimately, our enemies have a great story to tell to their people and the world abroad who doesn't pay much attention, that furthers the narrative that we are in a tailspin; right, wrong or indifferent.

Quote

"The welcome that China extended to Taliban leaders in a meeting last month was largely seen as protecting Beijing’s investments in the country, which include plans for mining projects. Experts say that China has little appetite for expanding its power in Afghanistan, but the messy U.S. withdrawal “will play into China’s narrative that the West, especially the U.S., is in terminal decline,” wrote Akhil Bery, an analyst at Eurasia Group, in a note to clients. The same goes for Russia, which “will fold the U.S. withdrawal into its arguments about the fecklessness of support from Washington in other areas, such as Ukraine,” he wrote."

 

[Parliament 14255]

5-10k Americans still there?  Not questioning you, but that seems like alot.  You got a link?

The Taliban will...probably? let them leave if they're white enough.  But any dual citizen might be screwed.

[wildcat09 29349]

Afghans aren't Arabs.

[BabaYaga 15290]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes. Yes. And yes. That’s my point. Afghanistan is a completely bipartisan, totally American failure. It’s on ALL of them. It’s in all of US, because we the people either supported the mission or didn’t mind it. Shit, of the four, Trump may even get the HIGHEST marks (still a failing grade, but still better than his predecessors, who embarked on and engaged in a wrongheaded mission).

Bullshit.  Going into Afghanistan at the time made sense.  We made amazing strides and stood up hundreds of thousands of pro-western Afghanis.  You are trying to make this a slippery slope into never being in the country in the first place - that is a completely separate argument. 

We were in.  And the correct call was made to extricate ourselves.  That is the topic at hand.  HOW we facilitated this.  Let's forget for the moment tens of thousands of Afghanis that we abandoned.  I saw this AM that they are estimating there are close to TEN THOUSAND American citizens in country RIGHT NOW.  Not soldiers.  Citizens.  If they start finding them in mass and executing them in the streets, it will be a crisis unparalleled in the modern era of this country.  

Quote

An administration official tells WaPo there's an estimated 10k U.S. citizens in Afghanistan, the majority in or near Kabul. Many are "hiding and hoping someone saves them before roaming Taliban gangs find them."

 

[InkaUtexas 25907]

Just now, Parliament said:

5-10k Americans still there?  Not questioning you, but that seems like alot.  You got a link?

The Taliban will...probably? let them leave if they're white enough.  But any dual citizen might be screwed.

I have seen over 10, under 20K. Lots of NGOs were still operational outside of Kabul. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Afghans aren't Arabs.

Well that answers that then. I guess they are second class citizens of the Muslim world and thus the lack of support and help. Thanks.

[Brothahorn 10087]

Biden should be firing the experts who let him believe his order of pullout was acceptable. Resignations aka saving face should not be on the table.

You're only as good as the intelligence you receive. And he received some really bad intelligence.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

5 minutes ago, Parliament said:

5-10k Americans still there?  Not questioning you, but that seems like alot.  You got a link?

The Taliban will...probably? let them leave if they're white enough.  But any dual citizen might be screwed.

Probably naive of me, but why isn’t an understanding that “everyone we want out gets out without so much as a scratch of paint on a C-17, or there will be a JDAMathon like you can’t believe now that you goat fuckers are exposed in urban areas” an option?

 

[B00M 6414]

12 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

dusty

What has the admin been prioritizing? 

Edited August 17, 2021 by B00M
Serious question. Casually following the news it just seems like the $3.5T+ infrastructure package dominated all else

[David Dennison 18854]

2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Biden should be firing the experts who let him believe his order of pullout was acceptable. Resignations aka saving face should not be on the table.

You're only as good as the intelligence you receive. And he received some really bad intelligence.

Let's see how the next two weeks play out.

Then the firings can begin.