Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

46 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I believe facts are a part of a debate and must be presented by both parties.   This isn't a debate it is a discussion with an idiot.   Unfortunately, shouting them down seems to be the better strategy as the idiots are addicted to dopamine hits from likes from other idiots.    I just ventured into our football forum and there are people happy that a dude pulled a Joe Mixon on a woman, then punched out some other dude instead of walking away like a man.   

Don’t waste your time on anyone who isn’t capable of rational discourse.

[lmao 178]

 

[Willfully Horn 8042]

Germany says firefight involving Western forces erupts at Kabul Airport

Quote

Reuters) - A firefight broke out between unidentified gunmen, Western security forces and Afghan guards at Kabul airport on Monday, Germany's armed forces said, as thousands of Afghans and foreigners thronged the airport, seeking to flee Taliban rule.

One Afghan guard was killed and three were wounded in the battle at the airport's north gate, which involved U.S. and German forces, the German military said on Twitter.

While the Taliban have deployed fighters outside the airport, where they have tried to help enforce some kind of order, there are Afghan guards helping U.S. forces inside the airport.

CNN reported that a sniper outside the airport had fired at Afghan guards inside the facility and they had returned fire but U.S. forces had fired back at the Afghan guards.

 

Two NATO officials at the airport said the situation was under control and all airport gates had been closed.

The airport has been in chaos since the Taliban seized the capital on Aug. 15 as U.S. and international forces try to evacuate citizens and vulnerable Afghans.

On Sunday, Taliban fighters beat back crowds at the airport a day after seven Afghans were killed in a crush at the gates as the deadline for the withdrawal of foreign troops approaches.

Foreign forces in Afghanistan have not sought to extend the Aug. 31 deadline to leave, a Taliban official said, after President Joe Biden said U.S. troops might stay longer to oversee a "hard and painful" evacuation.

 

The Taliban seized power just over a week ago as the United States and its allies withdrew troops after a 20-year war launched in the weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks as U.S. forces hunted al Qaeda leaders and sought to punish their Taliban hosts.

The administration of Biden's predecessor, Donald Trump, struck a deal with the Taliban last year allowing the United Sates to withdraw its forces in exchange for Taliban security guarantees.

Foreign forces were working towards the end-August deadline to leave and had not sought to extend it, a senior legal adviser to the Taliban leadership told Reuters on Monday.

Biden said on Sunday the security situation in Afghanistan was changing rapidly and remained dangerous.

 

"Let me be clear, the evacuation of thousands from Kabul is going to be hard and painful" and would have been "no matter when it began", Biden said in a briefing at the White House.

"We have a long way to go and a lot could still go wrong."

Biden said he had directed the State Department to contact stranded Americans.

"We're executing a plan to move groups of these Americans to safety and to safely and effectively move them to the airport compound ... I will say again today what I've said before: Any American who wants to get home will get home."

 

Afghan allies of the West and vulnerable Afghans such as women activists and journalists would be helped too, he said.

CIVILIAN AIRCRAFT

Panicked Afghans have clamoured to board flights out of Kabul, fearing reprisals and a return to a harsh version of Islamic law that the Sunni Muslim group implemented when it held power.

The United States on Sunday sought the help of six commercial airlines to transport people after their evacuation from Afghanistan. Biden said people fleeing Afghanistan were being assisted by more than two dozen countries in four continents.

 

Japan said it will send a military aircraft to Afghanistan on Monday to bring back its citizens. More flights are expected to repatriate Japanese citizens as well as Afghans working at the Japanese embassy or with Japanese missions, a government spokesperson said.

A U.N. flight took 120 people from Kabul to Kazakhstan on Sunday, a U.N. spokesman said. Passengers included U.N. personnel and members of non-governmental organizations who work with the United Nations in Afghanistan, he said, adding that it was the second such flight in a week.

OPPOSITION

Leaders of the Taliban, who have sought to show a more moderate face since capturing Kabul, have begun talks on forming a government.

 

They face opposition from forces in northern Afghanistan, which said this weekend they had taken three districts close to the Panjshir valley, an old stronghold of Taliban opponents.

Anti-Taliban leader Ahmad Massoud said on Sunday he hoped to hold talks with the Islamist movement but his forces in the Panjshir - remnants of army units, special forces and militiamen - were ready to fight.

"We want to make the Taliban realise that the only way forward is through negotiation," he said. "We do not want a war to break out."

The Taliban said hundreds of their fighters were heading towards Panjshir, showing a video on Twitter of a column of captured trucks with the white Taliban flag but still bearing government markings on a highway.

 

But overall, peace has prevailed in recent days.

Reuters spoke to eight doctors in hospitals in several cities who said they had not heard of any violence or received any casualties from clashes since Thursday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/germany-says-firefight-involving-western-forces-erupts-kabul-airport-2021-08-23/


 

Well, fuck.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Edit

[Homesickhorn 2208]

Imagine if, during the 20 years we were over there, the interpreters and other key afghan workers we utilized had been vetted and given visas in anticipation of this inevitable withdrawal. How much smoother would things be going right now?

This was my knee jerk reaction strictly due to the number of people, and the promises made to them.

That said, Inka has been absolutely crushing it with his answers, and it would behoove most to put down whatever they’re drinking and re-read all of them.

[HenryJames 66141]

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, Homesickhorn said:

This was my knee jerk reaction strictly due to the number of people, and the promises made to them.

That said, Inka has been absolutely crushing it with his answers, and it would behoove most to put down whatever they’re drinking and re-read all of them.

Yeah it was business as usual over there, get help from the locals then butt fuck them on the way out.   The Trump admin. should have been putting that in place.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Dunkirk II ?????

[BabaYaga 15304]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:02 AM, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Whoa, blatant incompetence?   Go fuck yourself.   All the bad shit we are experiencing now, came from Republican administrations and frankly, if you were standing in front of me right now I’d kill you and not feel bad about it.  Again, go fuck your self.  You, your party, and your ilk as you like to call it have done nothing but cause havoc on this great nation.  I look forward to not pissing on your grave, it it were on fire.  Fuck all of you.   I’m done being civil. 

Squack.....but Trump......but Trump......but Trump.....squack!!!!!

Bolded:  Lol - fucking tough guy.  

[BabaYaga 15304]

On 8/21/2021 at 9:40 AM, RomaVicta said:

 

 

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21209]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

 

 

Everyone wants a cuckold. 

[GopherRock 1765]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:35 PM, Aqua Buddha said:

In my opinion, the drone strike on the Iranian general was the worst.  Completely unforced error that could have easily let to watch with Iran where we’d get our asses kicked.  We’re damn lucky that nothing came from that.

The only reason why that didn't get worse is that less than 48 hours later, the Iranian military shot down a civilian airliner leaving Tehran airport.

[RomaVicta 29959]

17 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Imagine if, during the 20 years we were over there, the interpreters and other key afghan workers we utilized had been vetted and given visas in anticipation of this inevitable withdrawal. How much smoother would things be going right now?

Pos rep.

The only thing is: We're terrible at anticipating possible failure even though that failure keeps repeating itself. Thus, no exit strategy. We're going to convert every foreigner we don't kill or maim by letting that American within them finally find its way out into the sunshine of reigning freedom.

We stubbornly refuse to recognize the inevitable failure of using military force and bribery to transform others into us.

Of course, beneath from the veneer of idealism is the sordid world of enormous amounts of money going to contractors and not the guys in the outposts taking random mortar fire and patrolling hostile villages.

I believe the Pushtun word for this is bloody shitshow.

[RomaVicta 29959]

17 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

A lot were. My two were out about 4 years ago. We saw the program and jumped on it. It took about a year and a lot of letter writing, but we did it. The issue was also this. What about the parents and siblings? Once Amir gets out, he leaves them all behind. Was a rough decision and we have been trying to get the family out since Amir arrived in the US. The issue is he cannot sponsor them since he is not a citizen, just a legal resident. The options were refugee camps in Pakistan or Iran. Not great situations. 

I am not alone in this. All of my friends have been getting people out for years. The program existed and those who could see what was coming took advantage of it. 

Without irony, I salute you, both your great actions and your grasp of just how dangerous it is for foreigners to rely on the USA.

[Nivek 16953]

Pos rep.
The only thing is: We're terrible at anticipating possible failure even though that failure keeps repeating itself. Thus, no exit strategy. We're going to convert every foreigner we don't kill or maim by letting that American within them finally find its way out into the sunshine of reigning freedom.
We stubbornly refuse to recognize the inevitable failure of using military force and bribery to transform others into us.
Of course, beneath from the veneer of idealism is the sordid world of enormous amounts of money going to contractors and not the guys in the outposts taking random mortar fire and patrolling hostile villages.
I believe the Pushtun word for this is bloody shitshow.

Is it that we are terrible or is it that it is not politically savvy to do so?

[RomaVicta 29959]

15 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

This is from this week:

https://money.yahoo.com/former-pence-aide-says-trump-173827667.html

This is from two years ago:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-admin-broke-law-visa-delays-afghans-iraqis-who-worked-n1057846

Stop it! You're treating the stealth Trumpists as less than human!!!

[Bateshorn 9928]

11 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Pos rep.

The only thing is: We're terrible at anticipating possible failure even though that failure keeps repeating itself. Thus, no exit strategy. We're going to convert every foreigner we don't kill or maim by letting that American within them finally find its way out into the sunshine of reigning freedom.

We stubbornly refuse to recognize the inevitable failure of using military force and bribery to transform others into us.

Of course, beneath from the veneer of idealism is the sordid world of enormous amounts of money going to contractors and not the guys in the outposts taking random mortar fire and patrolling hostile villages.

I believe the Pushtun word for this is bloody shitshow.

I feel like we need a constitutional amendment at before we are allowed to spend a dime of taxpayer dollars on overseas military occupation/efforts, 75% of all Americans must read The Quiet American.  Then have a series of national book clubs about it. 
 

Greene wrote that in 1955. Before our broad involvement in the Vietnam War.  65 fucking years ago. And yet here we are.

[RomaVicta 29959]

8 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Is it that we are terrible or is it that it is not politically savvy to do so?

It's never simple with us. Look at Latin America. We send the Peace Corps. American religious charities build hospitals. The Lions Club sends glasses and funds other aid related to sight. We train the death squads at the School of the Americas in Georgia. We support cruel dictators who promise sweet deals for our corporations. We honestly try to set up democracy. We encourage respect for human rights.

We are terrible at this. Savvy has little to do with it. In fact, savvy seems as far removed from our decisions as the moon is from Philadelphia.

 

Generally, I see our foreing policy as stupid, brutal, and erratic. Our people can be capable of great generosity.

 

[Brisketexan 105192]

Quote

Generally, I see our foreing policy as stupid, brutal, and erratic. Our people can be capable of great generosity.

So, following that very timely comment.....

We now take a break from our regular programming of fingerpointing and shitshow-highlighting to bring you this important message -- more than 100 afghan refugees are coming right here to river city:  https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/afghan-refugees-to-resettle-in-austin-through-special-immigrant-visa-program/269-cae5b226-5f28-423c-ba30-b1361ec2817b

The story contains the following info and links:

Quote

Refugee Services of Texas takes care of about one-third of all resettlements in the state. They organization says these people are in danger because they helped us, so now it is our turn to help them.

Refugee Services of Texas told KVUE all people who apply for SIV’s undergo a security background check, as well as health screenings.

Here are ways you can help Afghan SIV families through Refugee Services of Texas:

• Amazon Wish List: these are the items RST needs to provide for each apartment set-up, so the need is ongoing.
• Make a financial donation on their website .
• Volunteer: if you are not already a registered volunteer, the first step is to attend an orientation. In the orientation you'll learn more about the volunteer opportunities and how to become a volunteer. The most relevant volunteer activities right now are: airport pickups, meal delivery, apartment set ups and office help (taking inventory and sorting through donations).
• Furniture donations: they need couches (from smoke/pet-free homes), kitchen tables & chairs, bed frames that don't need a box spring, dressers. They are also looking for rugs (5x7 or larger - clean and from smoke/pet-free homes) as they are an integral part of the religious life of most Afghans.

So....we embarked on our fun little Afghan Adventure as a country.  We fucked up as a country.  We owe people who put themselves in harm's way for us as a country.  If our actual government apparatus ain't so great at keeping our promises, maybe we the people can step up and do so.  The links are above.  RST ain't a perfect organization, but they are the front-line machine on this sort of thing, and they do get shit done.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Brisketexan

[Willfully Horn 8042]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

more than 100 afghan refugees are coming right here to river city:  

The oldest has been volunteering to set those folks up in new residences.

 

[956 Worldwide 34742]

On 8/22/2021 at 11:04 PM, InkaUtexas said:

A lot were. My two were out about 4 years ago. We saw the program and jumped on it. It took about a year and a lot of letter writing, but we did it. The issue was also this. What about the parents and siblings? Once Amir gets out, he leaves them all behind. Was a rough decision and we have been trying to get the family out since Amir arrived in the US. The issue is he cannot sponsor them since he is not a citizen, just a legal resident. The options were refugee camps in Pakistan or Iran. Not great situations. 

I am not alone in this. All of my friends have been getting people out for years. The program existed and those who could see what was coming took advantage of it. 

The other issue that hasn’t been made clear is how involved the process is. The reason it didn’t move “fast enough” boils down to - 1. (Potential) applicant (in)action. 2. The realities of resources and staffing. 3. Legislative decisions.

1. The SIV process and similar is a heavy lift and plenty of potential applicants were in wait and see mode or were not proactively moving their application along. A tremendous percent of those “stuck“ had applications that were in “pending applicant action” status, whether document submission or even a request for Chief of Mission approval. 
 

2. The visa officers doing this work are not lazy, unmotivated, or incapable. This is some of the most involved and difficult consular work in the world, and the people assigned to do it are experienced and meticulous to a person. In fact, they are the only people still there, at great risk to themselves, at Kabul Airport except for the service members just deployed. But they had never been staffed for a surge and it’s not an issue of just “stamping visas” faster (damn I hate that term). 
 

Each of those visas requires multiple checks across multiple law enforcement and security agencies, and for good reason. No visa will be issued until they come back and no— it’s not all automated. So tell me, U.S. citizen— where do you think the analytical capabilities of law enforcement and security agencies gets prioritized? Catching criminals and finding real terrorists? Or plowing through name checks for Afghan immigrant visas, which there will just be more of? And, be honest— where did you WANT that limited resource being used, when Afghanistan was not on fire and was mentioned a couple times a year on TV. The funding and staffing is finite, believe it or not.

3. Congress limited the number of those visas that could be issued a year. Maybe that was bad, but it’s not really sensible to get upset at the Executive for following the law the Legislative branch gives them to work with. Was increasing the SIV quota something you thought about at the ballot box? 
 

Maybe these answers aren’t satisfactory, completely. But they are at least understandable. It’s not like everyone just said “oh yeah, we should have been doing that.”

[Bullneck 19195]

On 8/17/2021 at 3:19 PM, BabaYaga said:

It's almost as if a conditions-based withdrawal makes sense....as if gives you the flexibility to shore up logistical challenges in the face of new or previously unexpected challenges.  Again, it's not the choice to extricate.  Its how it was facilitated.  It's the time honored hubris is a leader thousands of miles away being unable to adapt to changes.  What does losing a few weeks or a few months as long as you protect your people and your gear other than sacrificing your precious 9/11 photo op?

So what do you do when the Taliban don't meet your conditions?  Hang out for a while?  2 months?  6 months?  

We have the luxury of knowing now what kind of guy the president (Afghan) was.  Can't count on much from him.

But really, unless you're willing to kill some Taliban -- and maybe get more Americans killed -- your "conditions" are in your head.  

 

BTW, you know Stephen Miller was lobbying against bringing Afghans to the US, right?  He derailed their visas.  And you know what shenanigans Pompeo was up to, right?  Your answer is, "hey, let's stay longer."  

 

You can't leave Afghanistan unless you leave.  

[Js1 85468]

I applaud Baba’s switch from infectious disease expert to foreign policy savant.  Bro is crushing it on an internet message board instead of focusing on, idk, helping shape American policy.  Or he’s just full of hot air and bullshit  

Is Biden still blowing it and leaving people to die?

 

[InkaUtexas 26029]

56 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

 

You can't leave Afghanistan unless you leave.  

You are correct. Just be prepared to leave some Americans and Afghans behind. 

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

11 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I applaud Baba’s switch from infectious disease expert to foreign policy savant.  Bro is crushing it on an internet message board instead of focusing on, idk, helping shape American policy.  Or he’s just full of hot air and bullshit  

Is Biden still blowing it and leaving people to die?

 

Yup. 

 

[HenryJames 66141]

 

[bad_teammate 13221]

I only watch cable news on mute at the gym in the cardio area, so my sample size is bad, but CNN this morning wasn't talking about Afghanistan at all after a week solid of furious war-mongering

Now I see why. I was curious.

[BabaYaga 15304]

12 hours ago, Bullneck said:

So what do you do when the Taliban don't meet your conditions?  Hang out for a while?  2 months?  6 months?  

Here's a wild idea - you identify all critical human and physical assets on the ground and a logistical plan to extricate them long before "talks" happen.  We did this entire fuckup of an extraction ass-backwards.  We announced, thus painting ourselves in a corner with the date, and THEN tried to deal with the logistical challenges.  Utterly fucking stupid.

 

12 hours ago, Bullneck said:

We have the luxury of knowing now what kind of guy the president (Afghan) was.  Can't count on much from him.

We call that contingency planning.  Just like our military and intel leaders were telling us for months that we couldn't count on the ANA.  You bake that shit in to you exfil plans.  

 

12 hours ago, Bullneck said:

BTW, you know Stephen Miller was lobbying against bringing Afghans to the US, right?  He derailed their visas.  And you know what shenanigans Pompeo was up to, right?  Your answer is, "hey, let's stay longer."  

 

You can't leave Afghanistan unless you leave.  

This is the new talking point centered around a false choice - leave or stay, as if those are the only two options.  Everyone agrees on the need to leave (for the most part).  It's HOW we left.  Stranding thousands of people and tens of billions of taxpayer funded gear.  

You make a plan to extricate and you dictate the timeline, it doesn't dictate you.  If you need another month, you take it.  There had been zero US casualties in the region for 18 months.  You think another 30 or 60 days matter?  No - our idiot in Chief wanted a fucking photo op so he could say he ended the fighting on the symbolic 20yr anniversary of 9/11......ignoring all feedback that put a damper on not making that date.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Here's a wild idea - you identify all critical human and physical assets on the ground and a logistical plan to extricate them long before "talks" happen.  We did this entire fuckup of an extraction ass-backwards.  We announced, thus painting ourselves in a corner with the date, and THEN tried to deal with the logistical challenges.  Utterly fucking stupid.

 

We call that contingency planning.  Just like our military and intel leaders were telling us for months that we couldn't count on the ANA.  You bake that shit in to you exfil plans.  

 

This is the new talking point centered around a false choice - leave or stay, as if those are the only two options.  Everyone agrees on the need to leave (for the most part).  It's HOW we left.  Stranding thousands of people and tens of billions of taxpayer funded gear.  

You make a plan to extricate and you dictate the timeline, it doesn't dictate you.  If you need another month, you take it.  There had been zero US casualties in the region for 18 months.  You think another 30 or 60 days matter?  No - our idiot in Chief wanted a fucking photo op so he could say he ended the fighting on the symbolic 20yr anniversary of 9/11......ignoring all feedback that put a damper on not making that date.  

Yep well said.  A lot of this falls on the Trump admin. though. They should have been making those plans early on once they began discussing a deal to leave.  But this current admin. has been lying out of its asshole since the shit started hitting the fan.

[BabaYaga 15304]

11 hours ago, Js1 said:

I applaud Baba’s switch from infectious disease expert to foreign policy savant.  Bro is crushing it on an internet message board instead of focusing on, idk, helping shape American policy.  Or he’s just full of hot air and bullshit  

Is Biden still blowing it and leaving people to die?

 

It's cute how everyone utterly pickled in fucking politics tries to defend this shit show.  As if any points I'm making are not also being echoed by both foreign and domestic media outlets on the amateur hour extrication we are watching unfold.  Called out for the fuck up that it is and the obvious steps bypassed by this inept administration, we still don't even have an accurate headcount of western people still stranded or even where they are.  Watching tens of billions in US hardware, including sensitive coms gear and night vision paraded around by Taliban fighters on Twitter.  Called out by foreign military leaders who are actually trying to take steps to rescue stranded NGOs, that our own castrated leaders are telling them to stop as it's "making them look bad".  But yeah, keep fucking that chicken.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's cute how everyone utterly pickled in fucking politics tries to defend this shit show.  As if any points I'm making are not also being echoed by both foreign and domestic media outlets on the amateur hour extrication we are watching unfold.  Called out for the fuck up that it is and the obvious steps bypassed by this inept administration, we still don't even have an accurate headcount of western people still stranded or even where they are.  Watching tens of billions in US hardware, including sensitive coms gear and night vision paraded around by Taliban fighters on Twitter.  Called out by foreign military leaders who are actually trying to take steps to rescue stranded NGOs, that our own castrated leaders are telling them to stop as it's "making them look bad".  But yeah, keep fucking that chicken.  

To keep it Afghan specific, it should be keep fucking that little boy.

[BabaYaga 15304]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep well said.  A lot of this falls on the Trump admin. though. They should have been making those plans early on once they began discussing a deal to leave.  But this current admin. has been lying out of its asshole since the shit started hitting the fan.

Biden tore up every prior Trump plan, bill, or order that wasn't ratified by Congress.  He had 8 months to plan this shit out.  He campaigned on it.  Then when shit went sideways, they keep trying to roll out this tired talking point that they were somehow bound by the prior administration.  It's so weak even the sycophantic media that usually tosses him softballs is pressing the issue that this line of reasoning it stupid and nonsensical.  

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Here's a wild idea - you identify all critical human and physical assets on the ground and a logistical plan to extricate them long before "talks" happen.  We did this entire fuckup of an extraction ass-backwards.  We announced, thus painting ourselves in a corner with the date, and THEN tried to deal with the logistical challenges.  Utterly fucking stupid.

 

We call that contingency planning.  Just like our military and intel leaders were telling us for months that we couldn't count on the ANA.  You bake that shit in to you exfil plans.  

 

This is the new talking point centered around a false choice - leave or stay, as if those are the only two options.  Everyone agrees on the need to leave (for the most part).  It's HOW we left.  Stranding thousands of people and tens of billions of taxpayer funded gear.  

You make a plan to extricate and you dictate the timeline, it doesn't dictate you.  If you need another month, you take it.  There had been zero US casualties in the region for 18 months.  You think another 30 or 60 days matter?  No - our idiot in Chief wanted a fucking photo op so he could say he ended the fighting on the symbolic 20yr anniversary of 9/11......ignoring all feedback that put a damper on not making that date.  

All this bullshit and no mention of the changing conditions on the ground like the instant collapse of the Afghan government. 
 

And who is it exactly that’s being left behind? 58,700 evacuated in the last 10 days without an American casualty. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Biden tore up every prior Trump plan, bill, or order that wasn't ratified by Congress.  He had 8 months to plan this shit out.  He campaigned on it.  Then when shit went sideways, they keep trying to roll out this tired talking point that they were somehow bound by the prior administration.  It's so weak even the sycophantic media that usually tosses him softballs is pressing the issue that this line of reasoning it stupid and nonsensical.  

Oh yeah, his admin. has  basically been chiseling Trumps name off of everything like the Pharaohs, and Romans did to past rulers.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

All this bullshit and no mention of the changing conditions on the ground like the instant collapse of the Afghan government. 
 

And who is it exactly that’s being left behind? 58,700 evacuated in the last 10 days without an American casualty. 

It's great we've now marshaled forces, but that doesn't excuse the way this admin. (and the Trump WH) Handled this, and then lied blatantly to the American public about what they knew, and what was going on. You cannot walk that back.

[InkaUtexas 26029]

17 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

All this bullshit and no mention of the changing conditions on the ground like the instant collapse of the Afghan government. 
 

And who is it exactly that’s being left behind? 58,700 evacuated in the last 10 days without an American casualty. 

NGO's who are not in Kabul, SIV applicants waiting on final paperwork, green card holders, etc. 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

12 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

NGO's who are not in Kabul, SIV applicants waiting on final paperwork, green card holders, etc. 

 

I’m not here to paint a rosy picture but I don’t agree that any valid visa or green card holder will be left behind. 

[BabaYaga 15304]

28 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

All this bullshit and no mention of the changing conditions on the ground like the instant collapse of the Afghan government. 

Wait, you mean like having a fucking conditions based extrication that can and will change based upon conditions and intel on the ground?  Perish the thought....

As for left behind, we don't even have an accurate head count nor fixed locations for these NGO's that are literally in hiding - first told to get to the airport, but the troops could not and would not guarantee their safety.  Now it's so god damn dangerous, they are being told NOT to come to the airport.  So how in the holy hell are they getting out?  What exactly is the plan here?  Many are scattered all over the country, not just in Kabul.  

[wildcat09 29362]

It's funny that Baba keeps lying about what was in the Doha agreement.

 

[BabaYaga 15304]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's funny that Baba keeps lying about what was in the Doha agreement.

 

It's funny that everyone thinks Biden was/is bound by anything done by the prior administration

[TwiceHorn 31516]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:14 PM, cactusflinthead said:

 

Did you catch that? She worked for Pence.

That wretched fuckhead Miller is why they didn't start this process sooner.

 

Getting people out of Afghanistan has been an issue going back a long way.  Not saying that to absolve Miller and Trumpco in any way shape or form, but getting translators and collaborators out has been difficult going back to Lone Survivor days.

Simply pointing out that it has always been a goatfuck and not just because of a "hasty" withdrawal.

Edited August 24, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[wildcat09 29362]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's funny that everyone thinks Biden was/is bound by anything done by the prior administration

See, you keep lying about what's in the Doha agreement and then when we point out you've lied, you move to "WELL BIDEN WASN'T BOUND BY IT!!" 

My point isn't that he was bound by the Doha agreement and I've never said he was. My point is and has been that you're a liar.

[InkaUtexas 26029]

17 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I’m not here to paint a rosy picture but I don’t agree that any valid visa or green card holder will be left behind. 

Maybe if they are in Kabul. What about the rest of the country? It is a big place with few roads and they all suck for the most part. 

Today the Taliban started blocking any Afghan from reaching the airport. 

[babysdaddy 2726]

cross posted from DT but Taliban also said no dice on moving the deadline.

 

 

 

[BabaYaga 15304]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

See, you keep lying about what's in the Doha agreement and then when we point out you've lied, you move to "WELL BIDEN WASN'T BOUND BY IT!!" 

My point isn't that he was bound by the Doha agreement and I've never said he was. My point is and has been that you're a liar.

JFC you are pedantic.  We already verified the Taliban BROKE the terms.  Further, the plan included a withdrawal, where the U.S. military would leave the country in increments if the Taliban met certain conditions. The Taliban were required to reject and repudiate Al Qaeda, and would have to negotiate in good faith. Additionally, the U.S. would keep a special operations contingent in place and would hold the capacity to launch air strikes under specific circumstances. 

[BabaYaga 15304]

1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

cross posted from DT but Taliban also said no dice on moving the deadline.

 

 

 

Why would they - they are holding all the cards

[wildcat09 29362]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

JFC you are pedantic.  We already verified the Taliban BROKE the terms.  Further, the plan included a withdrawal, where the U.S. military would leave the country in increments if the Taliban met certain conditions. The Taliban were required to reject and repudiate Al Qaeda, and would have to negotiate in good faith. Additionally, the U.S. would keep a special operations contingent in place and would hold the capacity to launch air strikes under specific circumstances. 

Oh cool, you repeat the lie about conditions AND make up a new lie about leaving troops in country to launch air strikes.

[BabaYaga 15304]

23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Oh cool, you repeat the lie about conditions AND make up a new lie about leaving troops in country to launch air strikes.

Just so we're clear - did the DOHA agreement have phases/parts?  Yes or no?  Did the Taliban break the agreement?  Yes or no?

Edited August 24, 2021 by BabaYaga

[GW Hayduke 1953]

31 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

JFC you are pedantic.  We already verified the Taliban BROKE the terms.  Further, the plan included a withdrawal, where the U.S. military would leave the country in increments if the Taliban met certain conditions. The Taliban were required to reject and repudiate Al Qaeda, and would have to negotiate in good faith. Additionally, the U.S. would keep a special operations contingent in place and would hold the capacity to launch air strikes under specific circumstances. 

When presented with information disproving a position, you should revise your position.  To not do so, it makes you look like an idiot or someone acting in bad faith.

[BabaYaga 15304]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

When presented with information disproving a position, you should revise your position.  To not do so, it makes you look like an idiot or someone acting in bad faith.

We already verified the Taliban broke the terms on the agreement, specifically the verbiage about the Al Queda.  Further, it was stated by the earlier administration that they would be retaining control of Bagram airbase until ALL Americans were withdrawn.  A decision that was immediately reversed by Biden when he handed the airfield over.  

[wildcat09 29362]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Just so we're clear - did the DOHA agreement have phases/parts?  Yes or no?  Did the Taliban break the agreement?  Yes or no?

Sure, it had phases. That doesn't make the obligations undertaken by the United States in the agreement conditional. It could be argued that the Taliban violated the agreement, but their obligation was merely to prevent Al-Qa'ida from using Afghan soil to threaten the security of the United States, and was limited to areas under Taliban control. They have a much better argument that we violated the agreement (which we clearly did when we unilaterally extended the deadline for removal, though they subsequently assented to that) than we have that they violated it. 

What is clear from a simple reading of the Doha agreement is that it included unconditional promises by the United States to remove all of its forces from Afghanistan. What is clear is that you have repeatedly lied about what it says and when called out for lying have made up new lies. What is clear is that you're dumb as dirt and a pathological liar whom nobody should take seriously about anything.