Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Js1 85319]

11 hours ago, Mole said:

Lego are lego for adults.

Lego are also 8th amendment violations by kids - cruel and unusual punishment for everyone else's feet.   Fucking little CIA torturers in training with how strategically kids place them to ensure maximum pain. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Mole said:

I think it’s officially an adjective. According to the Lego company it’s Lego bricks, but the Lego nerds seem to use it as a plural noun. I’m a descriptivist at heart, so I go with the people over the office version.

Of course my depth of knowledge on this subject rivals my depth of knowledge on Afghanistan and infectious diseases. 

We're all MENSA here brah....

[HenryJames 66048]

Lego talk not going away.

[BabaYaga 15292]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You have repeatedly taken the position that the deal with the Taliban -- the key provisions of which are "US will GTFO and the Taliban will not attack us" -- was broken, and thus shouldn't be followed.  That is, the US should have set whatever timetable it wants, and leave how and when it wants, without regard for any deal with the Taliban.

I have repeatedly stated how utterly fucking stupid it is to remove the military before the removal of the citizens.  This isn't rocket surgery.  Military covers the exit and controls the threats on the ground.  That is greatly eased by the use of local air power, ie., not abandoning Bagram until you know everyone is safe.

And don't give me that nonsense about the ANA.  They quit because one day they have air assets and support and literally the next day the phones were dead.  They bailed after that, not before.  

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

When you are on someone else's dirt, and you don't want them to shoot at you as you leave, you are going to have to make a shitload of concessions.  If you say fuck you, we'll leave on our own terms and IDGAF what you want, particularly there, it doesn't go well....

We hadn't had a single casualty in 18 months.  Zero.  Now we are looking at stranding possibly thousands of westerners.  The BEST case scenario is they are hostages and we buy them back for millions or even billions.  ISIS is also back.  Think they have a few videos planned for captured people?  

Again, people and material first.  Then military.  We did this entire thing ass backward.   

[Js1 85319]

14 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

We're all MENSA here brah....

Ok well, triggered.  

[BabaYaga 15292]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I believe Trump released 5000 taliban prisoners and drew our forces down to 2500 prior to setting a May 2021 deadline. This is what Biden inherited. What should Biden have done differently in your opinion?

What he did with EVERY other Trump provision.  Torn it up and start from scratch.  He painted himself into a corner by ignoring military and intel reports that the ANA was a paper tiger and told them to hit the symbolic date of the 20th anniversary of 9/11 so he could claim some symbolic photo op.  

 

[BabaYaga 15292]

11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

We'd be crushing him, no doubt. And you'd be fuming at the media for not focusing more on how many he's getting out with limited violence.

Time. Flat circle. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

I'd be fuming at possibly thousands of westerners left behind to fend for themselves and then blamed during press reports.  Some things go beyond partisan lines.  Trump did A LOT of stupid shit that gets no pass from me.  

[BabaYaga 15292]

16 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Lego talk not going away.

[Captainant 27660]

52 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Trump did A LOT of stupid shit that gets no pass from me.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

there isn't a single post on this board where he called out trump for stupid things.

but just know that he was thinking 'man, that was really stupid, he shouldn't have done that'

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

btw @BabaYaga, you still thinking the attacks are being done by the taliban?

[RPM 26319]

 

[BabaYaga 15292]

4 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

btw @BabaYaga, you still thinking the attacks are being done by the taliban?

I said it was one of many morbid possibilities that is plausible considering the calculus on the ground. I also said earlier that AQ is back (ie. never left) and so too is ISIS.  They (ISIS) were eliminated as a military threat, but didn't just vanish.  At best, the Taliban isn't overtly aggressive towards them as they share a common foe and these attacks benefit them without reducing any of their people.

If it is ISIS, as accounts point to, and we have thousands of civilians on the ground, that's a big fucking problem as they have no compunctions about making all kinds of horrible and public videos.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I said it was one of many morbid possibilities that is plausible considering the calculus on the ground. I also said earlier that AQ is back (ie. never left) and so too is ISIS.  They (ISIS) were eliminated as a military threat, but didn't just vanish.  At best, the Taliban isn't overtly aggressive towards them as they share a common foe and these attacks benefit them without reducing any of their people.

If it is ISIS, as accounts point to, and we have thousands of civilians on the ground, that's a big fucking problem as they have no compunctions about making all kinds of horrible and public videos.  

here is exactly what you said:

Quote

The Taliban has already said they DO NOT want or will allow locals to leave.  Either tp punish them or create an indentured workforce to help rebuild, they are pissed.  Direct attacks on them is the next morbid and obvious choice to "dissuade" them from trying to leave and thin them out.  

you think that an obvious choice for the taliban, a group that has waited for 20 years to take back control of afghanistan and is 6 days away from exactly that, is to attack US personnel and provoke a US military response?

you actually think this attack benefits the taliban?

[BabaYaga 15292]

12 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

there isn't a single post on this board where he called out trump for stupid things.

but just know that he was thinking 'man, that was really stupid, he shouldn't have done that'

Nor are there many where I was defending him either.  I did (even recently) call him out for being so disorganized that he was clueless about the labs moving to Wuhan.  I also called him out on the same thread for not pushing back more vehemently when China blackmailed many western nations by nationalizing factories that produced PPE gear and held it hostage.  I called him out for not curtailing spending and you obviously know my position on Fauci and why he still had a job during the previous administration.  I can keep going if you like.  

[BabaYaga 15292]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

here is exactly what you said:

you think that an obvious choice for the taliban, a group that has waited for 20 years to take back control of afghanistan and is 6 days away from exactly that, is to attack US personnel and provoke a US military response?

you actually think this attack benefits the taliban?

What response?  Where exactly?  They are fully embedded with the civilians who shield them.  I said it merely seems plausible considering how acutely opposed they are to civilians leaving.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

What response?  Where exactly?  They are fully embedded with the civilians who shield them.  I said it merely seems plausible considering how acutely opposed they are to civilians leaving.  

the taliban perpetrating these attacks because they don't want afghani nationals leaving is the least plausible scenario imaginable. it's a breathlessly stupid take, even for you.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

wrong thread

Edited August 26, 2021 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

the taliban perpetrating these attacks because they don't want afghani nationals leaving is the least plausible scenario imaginable. it's a breathlessly stupid take, even for you.

And yet it is the Taliban who  set up road blocks, and checkpoints to keep people from even getting to the airport. The Taliban wants to exact revenge in Allahs name.  What is "breathlessly stupid" is you discounting what their intentions are, or stating that they wouldn't want to keep them in country.

The Taliban blows up statues, and destroys ancient cultural icons simply because they aren't Islamic. They rape, torture, and murder people because they aren't islamic enough in their opinion.  

Why else would they want to keep people who want to leave from leaving ?  Why are they setting up roadblocks, and check points ?

[crash_davis 23107]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet it is the Taliban who  set up road blocks, and checkpoints to keep people from even getting to the airport. The Taliban wants to exact revenge in Allahs name.  What is "breathlessly stupid" is you discounting what their intentions are, or stating that they wouldn't want to keep them in country.

The Taliban blows up statues, and destroys ancient cultural icons simply because they aren't Islamic. They rape, torture, and murder people because they aren't islamic enough in their opinion.  

Why else would they want to keep people who want to leave from leaving ?  Why are they setting up roadblocks, and check points ?

They need to step up their game and set up a hotline so that people can report their friends who get an abortion.

[BabaYaga 15292]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

They need to step up their game and set up a hotline so that people can report their friends who get an abortion.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet it is the Taliban who  set up road blocks, and checkpoints to keep people from even getting to the airport. The Taliban wants to exact revenge in Allahs name.  What is "breathlessly stupid" is you discounting what their intentions are, or stating that they wouldn't want to keep them in country.

The Taliban blows up statues, and destroys ancient cultural icons simply because they aren't Islamic. They rape, torture, and murder people because they aren't islamic enough in their opinion.  

Why else would they want to keep people who want to leave from leaving ?  Why are they setting up roadblocks, and check points ?

wut.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

wut.

Exactly....  well said..  

[Nivek 16924]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

I'd be fuming at possibly thousands of westerners left behind to fend for themselves and then blamed during press reports.  Some things go beyond partisan lines.  Trump did A LOT of stupid shit that gets no pass from me.  

Maybe some of those westerners shouldn't treat this like a test and plan to leave the night before. 

[wildcat09 29353]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet it is the Taliban who  set up road blocks, and checkpoints to keep people from even getting to the airport. The Taliban wants to exact revenge in Allahs name.  What is "breathlessly stupid" is you discounting what their intentions are, or stating that they wouldn't want to keep them in country.

The Taliban blows up statues, and destroys ancient cultural icons simply because they aren't Islamic. They rape, torture, and murder people because they aren't islamic enough in their opinion.  

Why else would they want to keep people who want to leave from leaving ?  Why are they setting up roadblocks, and check points ?

It gives them more leverage over us. To get more Americans out (and any SIVs), we'll need the Taliban to secure Kabul against ISIS. In all likelihood, in exchange for their cooperation we're going to end up coordinating some military operations with the Taliban against ISIS forces (and probably giving them money and more guns). 

Nobody disputes that the Taliban are cunts. But they're not stupid. They essentially took over a country that is roughly the size of Texas in a week. They've been acting in ways to ensure that our immediate interests align with theirs, and making us dependent on their cooperation does that. 

[BabaYaga 15292]

3 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Maybe some of those westerners shouldn't treat this like a test and plan to leave the night before. 

Victim blaming in full swing now

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

It gives them more leverage over us. To get more Americans out (and any SIVs), we'll need the Taliban to secure Kabul against ISIS. In all likelihood, in exchange for their cooperation we're going to end up coordinating some military operations with the Taliban against ISIS forces (and probably giving them money and more guns). 

Nobody disputes that the Taliban are cunts. But they're not stupid. They essentially took over a country that is roughly the size of Texas in a week. They've been acting in ways to ensure that our immediate interests align with theirs, and making us dependent on their cooperation does that. 

That goes without saying, and I've already asked how long before we fund one or both of them to get our people out and or to keep them engaged against each other instead of us.  We helped create both of these monsters, and we'll be feeding them for decades to come.

[Sawbonz 27548]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

What he did with EVERY other Trump provision.  Torn it up and start from scratch.  He painted himself into a corner by ignoring military and intel reports that the ANA was a paper tiger and told them to hit the symbolic date of the 20th anniversary of 9/11 so he could claim some symbolic photo op.  

 

How many troops would you have him send back in, given the taliban had months of only 2500 to worry about while digging in, and who knows how many in the civilian govt and ANA already silently gone over to their side? How many of our troops are you willing to have sacrifice life, limb, and mental health, to extricate the remaining people?  You signing up yourself or your sons to go help out? What are you willing to lose to unfuck what Trump, Pompeo, and Miller did?

[Js1 85319]

11 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Maybe some of those westerners shouldn't treat this like a test and plan to leave the night before. 

The Biden admin has been telling them since May to start leaving!  Idk why this is overlooked. Oh wait I do. They’ve been given months to make arrangements but that narrative doesn’t sell as well as “being abandoned”

[Sawbonz 27548]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

btw @BabaYaga, you still thinking the attacks are being done by the taliban?

Obviously it’s the cia and private contractors trying to suck us back in so they can keep the $$ rolling in

[wildcat09 29353]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

How many troops would you have him send back in, given the taliban had months of only 2500 to worry about while digging in, and who knows how many in the civilian govt and ANA already silently gone over to their side? How many of our troops are you willing to have sacrifice life, limb, and mental health, to extricate the remaining people?  You signing up yourself or your sons to go help out? What are you willing to lose to unfuck what Trump, Pompeo, and Miller did?

If we had known we would need to extract ~400,000 people without any support from the ANA, I wonder how many troops on the ground we would've considered necessary for that task. It would have to be, at a bare minimum, something like 30,000-40,000, if not more, right?  If we'd done that, we'd have been right back in a shooting war with the Taliban and unable to actually evacuate civilians. 

[Aqua Buddha 14595]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

If we had known we would need to extract ~400,000 people without any support from the ANA, I wonder how many troops on the ground we would've considered necessary for that task. It would have to be, at a bare minimum, something like 30,000-40,000, if not more, right?  If we'd done that, we'd have been right back in a shooting war with the Taliban and unable to actually evacuate civilians. 

This.  People don't realize that every move had negative consequences.

[BabaYaga 15292]

15 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

What are you willing to lose to unfuck what Trump, Pompeo, and Miller did?

There it is

 

16 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How many of our troops are you willing to have sacrifice life, limb, and mental health, to extricate the remaining people?

Citizens.  You forgetting that important piece of information.  Thousands of stranded citizens, for whom ZERO talks of leaving would have been had without first identifying and extricating.  Hence my earlier point about not pulling the military out first, then trying to get people out is monumentally stupid.

And why Kabul?  We can start there.  It was Biden's idea to evacuate bases, before US citizens and friendlies. It was Biden's idea to leave $100's of millions of dollars in equipment ... which gave US forces a competitive advantage ..behind to fall into the hands of a terrorist regime.

It was Biden's idea ... against his Generals advice no less ... to surrender Bagram air base, which is easily defended, had accommodations for thousands to be housed and fed (instead of US soldiers sleeping on the grounds adjacent to the tarmac), that had capacity for more fuel storage than Karzai airport.

Biden wanted the entire evacuation out of Hamid Karzai International Airport, which everyone said was a bad idea. Have you ever seen the movie "The Outpost"? I suggest you watch it. The Outpost will give you a good idea of the terrain surrounding Karzai International....mountains overlooking the airport, like a fish bowl, where mortars and small arms can easily rain down on those inside and make the runways inoperable and personnel on the ground an easy target. Karzai also doesn't have the exterior defenses, like Bagram.

This is a grade A shit show

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Exactly....  well said..  

He can’t say what he wants to say because it’ll make Biden look like a vegetable.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Citizens.  You forgetting that important piece of information.  Thousands of stranded citizens, for whom ZERO talks of leaving would have been had without first identifying and extricating. 

citizens that choose to ignore no less than 19 messages since March telling them to leave. They are there BECAUSE THEY CHOSE TO BE THERE.

what would you have done? dragged them away from their home/job in the middle of the night?

they were told on dozens of occasions to leave, knew the date US forces were withdrawing...and they stayed.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Doesn’t matter. Ace of aces said this wasn’t in the top 10 for failed foreign policy events in the last 10 years. Ukraine. Syria. Meeting with Kim jong un. Move along guys

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Doesn’t matter. Ace of aces said this wasn’t in the top 10 for failed foreign policy events in the last 10 years. Ukraine. Syria. Meeting with Kim jong un. Move along guys

in your mind, did you think losing a war in the time of twitter looked organized and clean? 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

citizens that choose to ignore no less than 19 messages since March telling them to leave. They are there BECAUSE THEY CHOSE TO BE THERE.
what would you have done? dragged them away from their home/job in the middle of the night?
they were told on dozens of occasions to leave, knew the date US forces were withdrawing...and they stayed.

And Biden said 6 weeks ago it was unrealistic they’d take Kabul. He said that as they were actively taking over the country!


I can’t believe this is even being defended by you cloaked fucking morons

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Doesn’t matter. Ace of aces said this wasn’t in the top 10 for failed foreign policy events in the last 10 years. Ukraine. Syria. Meeting with Kim jong un. Move along guys

Wow, that's insane. This is a fucking disaster. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

in your mind, did you think losing a war in the time of twitter looked organized and clean? 

We’re dealing with a bunch of rock throwing rebels. This is the equivalent of fighting a world war 1 army. You figure the rest fucking out with this stupid ass admin.


Youll just “wut” this anyways to avoid any pie to the face

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And Biden said 6 weeks ago it was unrealistic they’d take Kabul. He said that as they were actively taking over the country!


I can’t believe this is even being defended by you cloaked fucking morons

i thought we could all agree on the fact we completely misjudged the speed with which the country collapsed?

[RPM 26319]

This was a no win situation from the get go. To quote Charlie Wilson, "These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." We always fuck up the end game.

[BabaYaga 15292]

5 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

citizens that choose to ignore no less than 19 messages since March telling them to leave. They are there BECAUSE THEY CHOSE TO BE THERE.

what would you have done? dragged them away from their home/job in the middle of the night?

they were told on dozens of occasions to leave, knew the date US forces were withdrawing...and they stayed.

Talking points are out

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:

We’re dealing with a bunch of rock throwing rebels. This is the equivalent of fighting a world war 1 army. You figure the rest fucking out with this stupid ass admin.


Youll just “wut” this anyways to avoid any pie to the face

they just defeated the strongest military to ever roam the planet.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

i thought we could all agree on the fact we completely misjudged the speed with which the country collapsed?

We agree while the admin sits on their hands.

[BabaYaga 15292]

2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

i thought we could all agree on the fact we completely misjudged the speed with which the country collapsed?

Bullshit - you had repeated updates from Generals and intel reports that the ANA was gong to shit the bed and relying on them was suspect at best.  They were ignored.  

[BabaYaga 15292]

3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

they just defeated the strongest military to ever roam the planet.

Cool.  Let's add them to NATO

[Sawbonz 27548]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There it is

 

Citizens.  You forgetting that important piece of information.  Thousands of stranded citizens, for whom ZERO talks of leaving would have been had without first identifying and extricating.  Hence my earlier point about not pulling the military out first, then trying to get people out is monumentally stupid.

And why Kabul?  We can start there.  It was Biden's idea to evacuate bases, before US citizens and friendlies. It was Biden's idea to leave $100's of millions of dollars in equipment ... which gave US forces a competitive advantage ..behind to fall into the hands of a terrorist regime.

It was Biden's idea ... against his Generals advice no less ... to surrender Bagram air base, which is easily defended, had accommodations for thousands to be housed and fed (instead of US soldiers sleeping on the grounds adjacent to the tarmac), that had capacity for more fuel storage than Karzai airport.

Biden wanted the entire evacuation out of Hamid Karzai International Airport, which everyone said was a bad idea. Have you ever seen the movie "The Outpost"? I suggest you watch it. The Outpost will give you a good idea of the terrain surrounding Karzai International....mountains overlooking the airport, like a fish bowl, where mortars and small arms can easily rain down on those inside and make the runways inoperable and personnel on the ground an easy target. Karzai also doesn't have the exterior defenses, like Bagram.

This is a grade A shit show

Yep and there’s plenty of blame to go around going back 20+ years. I am glad we’re out. I don’t want to see one more American casualty to get anyone else out. American citizens die every day in every part of the world. About 200 a day are currently dying of Covid right here in Texas. Maybe you can go back and post all of your outrage about the drawdowns prior to this. I look forward to seeing those posts

[BabaYaga 15292]

My earlier point about Bagram vs Kabul

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Talking points are out

refute any part of what i posted.