Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

I think anyone familiar with this kind of mission expects casualties. The difference between the casualties while doing this kneel operation versus reestablishing our military presence and pushing the taliban back is easily in the hundreds of lives, if not thousands, and that doesn’t count the monetary costs of ramping back up to wartime footing. I doubt anyone in a position of authority trusts the Taliban, but you work with what you’ve got. Up until today it had resulted in over 80k evacuations with almost no loss of life. 

Although it has most definitely been a shit show, it has also been a highly successful air lift.

Both things are true.

[TXSG8R 3362]

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

So those Americans that are on the other side of the taliban perimeter who can’t get through. Just shit out of luck because they didn’t listen to the warnings.?

Nope, someone has to make a very hard choice there. Best case scenario we drop pallets of cash somewhere in exchange for their lives, which someone will conveniently leak around the next election to claim that Biden supports the Taliban. Worst case scenario we have more soldiers lose their lives so an American that made a bad choice can live. 

[Muy Frio 182]

19 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Biden should be asking the military why they fucked this up. I’m sure they said it would all go smoothly. Remember they told us ISIS was defeated and the Afghans had 300K strong military. I mean we trained them right? We were paying them all these years? What the fuck happened?

But it’s easier to just blame Biden. 

The buck stops here with me, he said.

 

Anyway, if it’s the military leaders’ fault then when will they be held accountable? 

[TXSG8R 3362]

3 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

The buck stops here with me, he said.

 

Anyway, if it’s the military leaders’ fault then when will they be held accountable? 

See previous posts about the risk assessment culture within the DoD. There is no binary pass/fail when it comes to how these things are measured, regardless of how the media will attempt to frame them. It’s very likely we are ahead of expected casualties for this operation. Save your pitchforks for after the 31st. 

[Brisketexan 105136]

14 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

So those Americans that are on the other side of the taliban perimeter who can’t get through. Just shit out of luck because they didn’t listen to the warnings.?

No.  They're largely out of luck for dozens of intersecting reasons.  Kind of how it is in most cases when people end up in fucked up situations: unpredictable shit beyond their control, shit that other people did, mistakes they themselves made, bad luck of taking a wrong turn on the wrong street, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

If we have to complete our evacuation with Americans left behind, I would hope and expect that the admin would continue to work multiple paths to try to get them out after the fact -- negotiate their safe passage out on flights, help them get to third-party countries where we can safely get them, pay money for their release, all kinds of shit should be in play.

War is a messy fucking business.  Getting into it.  Being in it.  Getting out of it.  Expecting anything else is magical thinking.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33870]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

See previous posts about the risk assessment culture within the DoD. There is no binary pass/fail when it comes to how these things are measured, regardless of how the media will attempt to frame them. It’s very likely we are ahead of expected casualties for this operation. Save your pitchforks for after the 31st. 

careful, the next move of the goalposts will be to assert that there should have been 0 casualties and the Taliban should have thrown us a party on our way out

[David Dennison 18856]

13 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

The buck stops here with me, he said.

 

Anyway, if it’s the military leaders’ fault then when will they be held accountable? 

If history is any indication, once this is over with, there will be firings.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33870]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If history is any indication, once this is over with, there will be firings.

you and your pesky facts

[Muy Frio 182]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If history is any indication, once this is over with, there will be firings.

We’ll see. I’m skeptical. A lot depends on how well they can control the message. Working hard on that part. 
 

 

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Muy Frio said:

We’ll see. I’m skeptical. A lot depends on how well they can control the message. Working hard on that part. 
 

 

So, who gets the credit for the success of this air lift?

[Sawbonz 27561]

27 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

So those Americans that are on the other side of the taliban perimeter who can’t get through. Just shit out of luck because they didn’t listen to the warnings.?

I thought you said they can just walk through the taliban perimeter with no repercussions? Which is it, dangerous or the taliban are scared shitless of us?

[Bullneck 19089]

3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Poor little bitch. Can’t help that his admin he voted for fucking sucks and was just fleeced by a bunch of rock throwing Neanderthals

Dumb and angry!

Remind me of your military experience?

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

War is a messy fucking business.  Getting into it.  Being in it.  Getting out of it.  Expecting anything else is magical thinking.

MNLonghorn, I don't know what you were expecting.  If you wanted to bitch about the mess that was our stay in Afghanistan you had many opportunities to do it.  People died today, they died last week, they'll die next week.

 

I can imagine the captain of the Titanic knew a percentage of the people on the ship would die after they struck the iceberg.  It was just a question of how many.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Bullneck

[Nicole44 22060]

34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Do you think we can just wave a magic wand and get everyone out safely and we're just choosing not to for fun?

I haven't said that. But hypotheticals are different from what is happening and has happened. There is plenty of blame to go around. That having been said: what could have happened or what would have happened is irrelevant. JMO. No offense. Number of dead US Service Men now at 13. It was 12. 

Our President said in his presser earlier this afternoon that we will strike back at a time/date of our choosing. I suppose there was no way to not announce the time/date of our departure/withdrawal? 

My heart aches for all the lives lost over the past 20 years. Plenty of blame to go around as I have said and I do mean. But when I mentioned my friend, I meant...what the fuck was this all for? Just to hand the country back to the biggest assholes on the planet? Full circle? this is not just about our President...plenty of blame but damn. I was reading that something like 60,0000 or so lives lost from the AP overall. For nothing. Just so the Taliban can rape and kill and destroy the lives of women and so that ISIS or whatever fucking POS organization can kick the Taliban's asses? 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nicole44

[InkaUtexas 25936]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So, who gets the credit for the success of this air lift?

The pilots and crew running the aircraft, the marines and soldiers guarding the perimeter and dealing with the influx of people, the support personnel in the Gulf keeping it going (refueling, maintenance, etc). And our allies who are doing the same.

Not one fucking politician gets any credit for this. Lets give it to those that deserve it. 

[wild_turkey 3159]

This thread is a good reminder of why I don’t enter CR very often. As someone who doesn’t identify with either political party, it amazes me how much adults will absolve their own party/candidates of any wrongdoing and vehemently attack the other side for all the evils in the world. Can’t we just agree that both sides of the political aisle, including 2 R presidents and 2 D presidents, have fucked up Afghanistan for the past ~20 years?

Bush - Invaded in response to 9/11, hung around to what, build a democracy in the Middle East?

Obama - Killed Bin Laden, hung around to what, continue building that democracy?

Trump - Freed some Taliban prisoners, hung around because leaving in his first term was political suicide, although that was a moot point.

Biden - Initiated a withdrawal that most people agree is needed, but handled it in a way that appears to be mostly chaos, resulting in American and Afghan deaths, and poorly communicating with our ally countries that makes the U.S. look like a bunch of selfish and incompetent jackasses.

From where I’m sitting, it looks terribly managed by all of the above actors. Biden’s current failures are partly due to the 3 guys that came before him and partly due to his own leadership. Quit trying to separate them.

I also get the sense that some Republicans want the Afghanistan withdrawal to be a bloody affair just to point the finger at Biden. Much like a year ago I got the sense that some Democrats wanted Covid to be worse to point the finger at Trump. It’s pretty shitty to want the world to be a worse place because you didn’t vote for the guy in the White House.

[Muy Frio 182]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

So, who gets the credit for the success of this air lift?

Congratulations arsonists for putting out the fire. Getting big GFC/bank bailout vibes from that suggestion, but I digress. 

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

The pilots and crew running the aircraft, the marines and soldiers guarding the perimeter and dealing with the influx of people, the support personnel in the Gulf keeping it going (refueling, maintenance, etc). And our allies who are doing the same.

Not one fucking politician gets any credit for this. Lets give it to those that deserve it. 

And their officers?

[Muy Frio 182]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The pilots and crew running the aircraft, the marines and soldiers guarding the perimeter and dealing with the influx of people, the support personnel in the Gulf keeping it going (refueling, maintenance, etc). And our allies who are doing the same.

Not one fucking politician gets any credit for this. Lets give it to those that deserve it. 

Better stated than myself. 

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, wild_turkey said:

This thread is a good reminder of why I don’t enter CR very often. As someone who doesn’t identify with either political party, it amazes me how much adults will absolve their own party/candidates of any wrongdoing and vehemently attack the other side for all the evils in the world. Can’t we just agree that both sides of the political aisle, including 2 R presidents and 2 D presidents, have fucked up Afghanistan for the past ~20 years?

Bush - Invaded in response to 9/11, hung around to what, build a democracy in the Middle East?

Obama - Killed Bin Laden, hung around to what, continue building that democracy?

Trump - Freed some Taliban prisoners, hung around because leaving in his first term was political suicide, although that was a moot point.

Biden - Initiated a withdrawal that most people agree is needed, but handled it in a way that appears to be mostly chaos, resulting in American and Afghan deaths, and poorly communicating with our ally countries that makes the U.S. look like a bunch of selfish and incompetent jackasses.

From where I’m sitting, it looks terribly managed by all of the above actors. Biden’s current failures are partly due to the 3 guys that came before him and partly due to his own leadership. Quit trying to separate them.

I also get the sense that some Republicans want the Afghanistan withdrawal to be a bloody affair just to point the finger at Biden. Much like a year ago I got the sense that some Democrats wanted Covid to be worse to point the finger at Trump. It’s pretty shitty to want the world to be a worse place because you didn’t vote for the guy in the White House.

But it's also been successful.

Don't forget that pesky fact.

[Nicole44 22060]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

But it's also been successful.

Don't forget that pesky fact.

[InkaUtexas 25936]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And their officers?

Did I exclude them? Ya know there are officers there right? Most pilots (USAF) are officers. Ya know that officers control lead troops right? Young LT's up to probably Colonels are deployed. 

Do you think we just sent in the Corps of Cadets? Fucking idiot. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by InkaUtexas

[TwiceHorn 31468]

2 hours ago, Muy Frio said:

The one upside to this fiasco is we can finally dispense with the notion thrown about here that CR is somehow moderate. Much water being carried here for this fiasco.

 

It's already been established that slightly less than half the American voting public are idiots and imbeciles.  Another good 30% are mere morons on #bothsides.

That alone explains the difference, without resorting to partisan political affiliation.

Moreover, no one is saying this isn't a shitshow.

The question being endlessly hashed over is how much difference a different plan or a different administration would have made.

Biden supporters aren't saying it's being handled well.  At best, they're saying it may be being handled as well as it could under the circumstances.  Circumstances that your Dear Leader prepared and insured without the testicular fortitude to actually do the thing.

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

Did I exclude them? Ya know there are officers there right? Most pilots (USAF) are officers. Ya know that officers control troops right? Young LT's up to probably Colonels are deployed. 

Do you think we just sent in the Corps of Cadets? Fucking idiot. 

I'm just wondering how we're supposed apportion credit and blame for the biggest (albeit successful) clusterfuck in American history.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

I thought you said they can just walk through the taliban perimeter with no repercussions? Which is it, dangerous or the taliban are scared shitless of us?

Whos they? Civilians cant.

Military obviously doesnt want to start anything and it’s obviously a dangerous mission and probably last resort

[David Dennison 18856]

5 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

The air lift has been a success. 

[aggie08 21504]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

But it's also been successful.

Don't forget that pesky fact.

Give it a rest, man. No politicians will get--or deserves--credit for this. Or any of the last 20 years. This sucks, no matter how inevitable some of it was.

[InkaUtexas 25936]

Just now, David Dennison said:

I'm just wondering how we're supposed apportion credit and blame for the biggest (albeit successful) clusterfuck in American history.

We give them all 30 days leave and 5K to spend on blow and hookers. Shit, let them kick in in Dubai vs. Fort Bragg (Hay Street sucks). 

You blame the politicians and career government officials, from both administrations, who created this mess. Thank the implementing personnel. 

[Sawbonz 27561]

Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Whos they? Civilians cant.

Military obviously doesnt want to start anything and it’s obviously a dangerous mission and probably last resort

So how many more  military lives are you ready to sacrifice to get the civilians to safety?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Tailgate said:

I have faith the military has more power than Biden and they will now be calling the shots.

He is just a temporary government employee.

 

That would be a very dark hour for our democracy.

[David Dennison 18856]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

We give them all 30 days leave and 5K to spend on blow and hookers. Shit, let them kick in in Dubai vs. Fort Bragg (Hay Street sucks). 

You blame the politicians and career government officials, from both administrations, who created this mess. Thank the implementing personnel. 

I disagree. Joe Biden gets credit for making the decision to do it. He also gets the blame for poor execution.

[Nicole44 22060]

14 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

This thread is a good reminder of why I don’t enter CR very often. As someone who doesn’t identify with either political party, it amazes me how much adults will absolve their own party/candidates of any wrongdoing and vehemently attack the other side for all the evils in the world. Can’t we just agree that both sides of the political aisle, including 2 R presidents and 2 D presidents, have fucked up Afghanistan for the past ~20 years?

Bush - Invaded in response to 9/11, hung around to what, build a democracy in the Middle East?

Obama - Killed Bin Laden, hung around to what, continue building that democracy?

Trump - Freed some Taliban prisoners, hung around because leaving in his first term was political suicide, although that was a moot point.

Biden - Initiated a withdrawal that most people agree is needed, but handled it in a way that appears to be mostly chaos, resulting in American and Afghan deaths, and poorly communicating with our ally countries that makes the U.S. look like a bunch of selfish and incompetent jackasses.

From where I’m sitting, it looks terribly managed by all of the above actors. Biden’s current failures are partly due to the 3 guys that came before him and partly due to his own leadership. Quit trying to separate them.

I also get the sense that some Republicans want the Afghanistan withdrawal to be a bloody affair just to point the finger at Biden. Much like a year ago I got the sense that some Democrats wanted Covid to be worse to point the finger at Trump. It’s pretty shitty to want the world to be a worse place because you didn’t vote for the guy in the White House.

This. All of this. Can I have some Wild Turkey now? Like the reserve version...?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

MNLonghorn, I don't know what you were expecting.  If you wanted to bitch about the mess that was our stay in Afghanistan you had many opportunities to do it.  People died today, they died last week, they'll die next week.
 
I can imagine the captain of the Titanic knew a percentage of the people on the ship would die after they struck the iceberg.  It was just a question of how many.

Here’s my bitch. The common narrative was this was always going to be the outcome. An unwinnable war. We’re all happy to get out. We had no plan B C or D for what was known as the inevitable outcome?

The common excuse why it happened was because it the ANA laid down faster than expected. Probably a lot faster. Civilians didn’t heed travel advisories to GTFO- I mean if you’re willingly in Afghanistan 4 months beyond when the first warning was issued- it’s fucked.

My other bitch was doing nothing when the taliban took over the country all summer. No added troops, no missile warning shot, no nothing. What happens if America deploys troops to Afghanistan? Does the taliban slow down and we speed up evacs without any taliban presence in Kabul?

Taliban get their country and we leave the embassy bare while getting everybody we need out. Last one to turn out the lights is the military. Whether it’s 8/31, 9/5, 9/11. WGAF.

[Goredho 17405]

There's a reason this can was kicked down the road by so many Presidents.  It was never going to be pretty.  Could it have been handled better?  I am sure it could.  Does Joe deserve to be nailed to the cross over this?  Maybe.  But the only winning move in Afghanistan was to never, ever, EVER get entrenched there.  We were destined to suffer an embarrassing end to this shitty conflict back in 2001 the moment some asshole mentioned "nation building".

[InkaUtexas 25936]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I disagree. Joe Biden gets credit for making the decision to do it. He also gets the blame for poor execution.

Credit for what? You think he drew up the plans? The perimeter security? Nah, he fucked this up. It is HIS policy. Our military follows the orders of the President.

Pulling out of KAF and BAF was on him. That created the situation. Stop thinking just Kabul and the events of the past 10 days if you are capable. Everyone of my contacts knew this was coming once we left those bases. We felt it. We are the ones talking to our friends there. 

Part of my job is security analysis. While the world is focused on Kabul I started my day watching videos from a major event in Burkina Faso. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

So how many more  military lives are you ready to sacrifice to get the civilians to safety?

I said that’s impossible to answer now that people who are willing to kill Americans blend in with people who don’t. The answer always fucking 0. And it would’ve been zero if we held onto Kabul longer. But that takes competent planning from our higher ups

[elfenix 34240]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Credit for what? You think he drew up the plans? The perimeter security? Nah, he fucked this up. It is HIS policy. Our military follows the orders of the President.

Pulling out of KAF and BAF was on him. That created the situation. Stop thinking just Kabul and the events of the past 10 days if you are capable. Everyone of my contacts knew this was coming once we left those bases. We felt it. We are the ones talking to our friends there. 

Part of my job is security analysis. While the world is focused on Kabul I started my day watching videos from a major event in Burkina Faso. 

some place had to be the last place to pull out from. 

[David Dennison 18856]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Credit for what? You think he drew up the plans? The perimeter security? Nah, he fucked this up. It is HIS policy. Our military follows the orders of the President.

Pulling out of KAF and BAF was on him. That created the situation. Stop thinking just Kabul and the events of the past 10 days if you are capable. Everyone of my contacts knew this was coming once we left those bases. We felt it. We are the ones talking to our friends there. 

Part of my job is security analysis. While the world is focused on Kabul I started my day watching videos from a major event in Burkina Faso. 

Credit for making the decision to get out. He made the decision to do that and it was the right one.

[Sawbonz 27561]

1 minute ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I said that’s impossible to answer now that people who are willing to kill Americans blend in with people who don’t. The answer always fucking 0. And it would’ve been zero if we held onto Kabul longer. But that takes competent planning from our higher ups

How do you hold on to Kabul with 2500 troops and a hard deadline (that’s already 3 months past the negotiated deadline)? In what scenario are military casualties not occurring while simultaneously all Americans (and Afghan allies) are getting out?

[The Ace of Aces 5183]

26 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I haven't said that. But hypotheticals are different from what is happening and has happened. There is plenty of blame to go around. That having been said: what could have happened or what would have happened is irrelevant. JMO. No offense. Number of dead US Service Men now at 13. It was 12. 

Our President said in his presser earlier this afternoon that we will strike back at a time/date of our choosing. I suppose there was no way to not announce the time/date of our departure/withdrawal? 

My heart aches for all the lives lost over the past 20 years. Plenty of blame to go around as I have said and I do mean. But when I mentioned my friend, I meant...what the fuck was this all for? Just to hand the country back to the biggest assholes on the planet? Full circle? this is not just about our President...plenty of blame but damn. I was reading that something like 60,0000 or so lives lost from the AP overall. For nothing. Just so the Taliban can rape and kill and destroy the lives of women and so that ISIS or whatever fucking POS organization can kick the Taliban's asses? 

Afghanistan is a graveyard for a reason. Always has been, always will be. We should’ve left after the failed Tora Bora raid way back 20 years ago but, well, we know what happened. 

Remember, originally way back we supported the Mujahadeen (which essentially was the Taliban) to fight Russia. 

Then in 2001 we teamed up with Iran to fight the Taliban. It ends as we partner with the Taliban to hit ISIS. 

In 20 years some county will stupidly team up with ISIS to fight whatever new force turns up in the graveyard of empires. Hopefully it’s not us and someone like China or (more likely) India. 

The cycle will never end. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by The Ace of Aces

[Nicole44 22060]

I was also simultaneously reading the DT. Has anyone heard about @CHIEF neighbor's son? He was saying in the other place that they thought for sure they saw him in one of the clips before the bombings earlier. Until 8/31 our Servicemen and those afghans wanting to leave are the biggest targets...but our military is the primary. Deadliest day in a decade for our troops. 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

42 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

careful, the next move of the goalposts will be to assert that there should have been 0 casualties and the Taliban should have thrown us a party on our way out

Well... you can't deny that would have been nice.

[David Dennison 18856]

3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I said that’s impossible to answer now that people who are willing to kill Americans blend in with people who don’t. The answer always fucking 0. And it would’ve been zero if we held onto Kabul longer. But that takes competent planning from our higher ups

O rly?

[InkaUtexas 25936]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

some place had to be the last place to pull out from. 

Nope, you control the 6 major airports and everyone flies out on the same day. Fuck shutting off the lights. You hammer the generators with a hellfire. You do not create a choke point. You do not create chaos for political grandstanding. 

I voted for Biden. I am very pissed right now but I am still working with my friends there to get them out. We know they cannot go to HKIA. We are working other plans. 

[Nicole44 22060]

Just now, The Ace of Aces said:

Afghanistan is a graveyard for a reason. Always has been, always will be. We should’ve left after the veiled Tora Bora raid way back 20 years ago but, well, we know what happened. 
 

Remember, originally way back we supported the Mujahadeen (which essentially was the Taliban) to fight Russia. 

Then in 2001 we teamed up with Iran to fight the Taliban. It ends as we partner with the Taliban to hit ISIS. 

In 20 years some county will stupidly team up with ISIS to fight whatever new force turns up in the graveyard of empires. Hopefully it’s not us and someone like China or (more likely) India. 

The cycle will never end. 

The cycle could end. Why they are allowed to take up air on this planet I cannot fathom. They can't be reasoned with or educated. They just need to be eradicated. I have never trusted the enemy of my enemy can be a friend. Taliban about to get their asses handed to them by ISIS or what the fuck ever POS org is out there. Just get some aircrafts...

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

How do you hold on to Kabul with 2500 troops and a hard deadline (that’s already 3 months past the negotiated deadline)? In what scenario are military casualties not occurring while simultaneously all Americans (and Afghan allies) are getting out?

Why are you against adding troops to Kabul to let the Taliban know we are onto them? That’s the obvious answer, no? 2500 turns into 12500 in June if Biden pays any lick of attention.

How is the taliban going to go against a super power who controls the city? Are they going to go after us with their AKs and shitty cars/pick ups?

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Nicole44 said:

The cycle could end. Why they are allowed to take up air on this planet I cannot fathom. They can't be reasoned with or educated. They just need to be eradicated. I have never trusted the enemy of my enemy can be a friend. Taliban about to get their asses handed to them by ISIS or what the fuck ever POS org is out there. Just get some aircrafts...

Where have I heard this before?

[Brisketexan 105136]

25 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I was reading that something like 60,0000 or so lives lost from the AP overall. For nothing. Just so the Taliban can rape and kill and destroy the lives of women and so that ISIS or whatever fucking POS organization can kick the Taliban's asses? 

Do you want the truth?  Yes.  It was all for nothing.  Afghanistan has been a chaotic graveyard of empires.  Nothing has changed.  We live in a world with bad places with bad people in them.  And there's no amount of trying or will that will make them stop being bad.  Only the passage of time, and the evolution of complex circumstances that may take generations/centuries.  And the inhabitants will be the ones who decide to make that change, not us.

8 minutes ago, Goredho said:

There's a reason this can was kicked down the road by so many Presidents.  It was never going to be pretty.  Could it have been handled better?  I am sure it could.  Does Joe deserve to be nailed to the cross over this?  Maybe.  But the only winning move in Afghanistan was to never, ever, EVER get entrenched there.  We were destined to suffer an embarrassing end to this shitty conflict back in 2001 the moment some asshole mentioned "nation building".

And it really is this simple.

Once you moved in with the crazy chick, ditched your old place, moved all your stuff in, and tied yourself to her......it was always going end badly.  The only variable is how badly, and in what way.

[InkaUtexas 25936]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How do you hold on to Kabul with 2500 troops and a hard deadline (that’s already 3 months past the negotiated deadline)? In what scenario are military casualties not occurring while simultaneously all Americans (and Afghan allies) are getting out?

You do not hold Kabul. Have you been there? It is not a city like we think. It is blocks of compounds with roads. You retreat in fashion. You pull your perimeter in as you go. You do not try and hold a place. Shit, the UK learned that at Yorktown. 

Command is given, we must obey, and quite forget old Christmas day:
Kill a thousand men, or a Town regain, we will give thanks and praise amain.
The wine pot shall clinke, we will feast and drinke.
And then strange motions will abound.
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

[elfenix 34240]

1 minute ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Are they going to go after us with their AKs and shitty cars/pick ups?

 that's what they'd been doing until trump told them we were leaving. 

[Bevo 13577]

7 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Here’s my bitch. The common narrative was this was always going to be the outcome. An unwinnable war.

That's BS. Obama repeated multiple times when he ran for office that the bad guys were in Afghanistan not Iraq and that we had no business being in Iraq. So, obviously Obama didn't believe that the war was unwinnable. He wanted us there to get the bad guys. There was talk of building infrastructure and nation building and that that would keep the Taliban and terrorist camps at bay. That isn't done or even considered if he believed that it was an unwinnable war.