Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Thanks for the info. Not sure that makes it much better. We've made an agreement to pull out of a hostile country during the time period you've elected to go visit.  Not what I'd call a smart move.  I'd also question why our state dept. wouldn't strongly dissuade that or even grant visas.

Host country grants the visa, not the state dept. There is very little our govt can do to stop someone from traveling to a hostile country short of telling them they are on their own. 

[RomaVicta 30032]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Not just Afghanistan, no one in their right mind in the world will trust the US again. And the first and only time NATO Article 5 was invoked it ended like this.

It is bad. Bad bad bad. The partisan bickering is obnoxious. We fucked this up. The USA. There is no good guy here.

We say this everytime, too. Whose trust have we needed or acquired for these disastrous invasions (although the initial operation in Afghanistan was justified and effective at ousting the Taliban who were protecting Al Qaeda)?

Do we gain trust once we're in these countries killing people? 

A scene from Iraq:

We largely buy "trust." That is we buy it with the money ($6.5B missing from Iraq) that doesn't fall between the cracks during the process. Some join us for their own personal or political reasons. Opposition factions think we're great, but we're serving their purpose not gaining new friends.

It's this schoolyard view of the world that keeps us thinking in terms of friends and bullies and good guys and bad guys. The rest of the world is more pragmatic. We should try to be more like them than making them like us.

Heresy, I know.

Edited August 27, 2021 by RomaVicta
GD MFn Apostrophe Error. Seppuku

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Speaking just for myself, of course, I would reward activity (swift, decisive and smart activity) here and weight that over results, because of everything you said about the nature of the enemy. 

With the eyes of every two-bit extremist, would-be terrorists and wannabe upstart on you, you've got to make a point. It's not about the one ant, it's about keeping all the other ants in line.

This is still a backwards way of thinking when it comes to this kind of enemy. There is no anthill we can drop a bomb on. There is no queen we can kill to collapse the colony. I’m not saying we don’t take action, but it’s a lot more difficult to execute. Afghanistan is pure fucking chaos, and all of our resources are focused on protecting that bubble in and around HKIA. Some training camp will get smoked at some point in the near future, or a house will get smart bombed because it was a meeting spot, and  ISIS will reshuffle their cards and keep going. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

This is still a backwards way of thinking when it comes to this kind of enemy. There is no anthill we can drop a bomb on. There is no queen we can kill to collapse the colony. I’m not saying we don’t take action, but it’s a lot more difficult to execute. Afghanistan is pure fucking chaos, and all of our resources are focused on protecting that bubble in and around HKIA. Some training camp will get smoked at some point in the near future, or a house will get smart bombed because it was a meeting spot, and  ISIS will reshuffle their cards and keep going. 

I'm fine with waiting until after the 8/31 deadline or whatever the deadline pushes to, before diverting the attention from retreat to bombing training camps or smart bombing homes where ISIS is meeting. 

[aggie08 21555]

9 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Nah, I didn't say any of that. I would like to see a significant and quick retaliation. That is all. Not re-entrenchment or boots on the ground. Bomb the crap out of the would-be's in shock and awe. The key here is to respond swiftly (read: not 6 months from now as someone mentioned).

As I've said, it's making a statement and we are rewarding the activity, more than the result. To do otherwise is to enhance a moral hazard, is and has been my suggestion. 

I stand with Joe Biden on this one.

Any "message" that you think we'd be sending will more likely have the opposite desired effect. Again, I'm sure we'll do something, but I can assure you that it won't be nearly as satisfying--and can never be--as those who wish for payback hope.

[DDD Dad 14352]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

No he didn't. There's not one goddamn condition in the Doha agreement.

That's not correct.  I read otherwise on Facebook.

[RomaVicta 30032]

43 minutes ago, F250 said:

 Disagree. Emotions should always inform your decisions. Seneca once wrote "Anger is wisdom and reason is folly. Only a fool would restrain his anger in order to consider the potential consequences of his poorly thought out decisions." 

 

 

Seneca was a hypocrital advocate of Stoicism. If I recall correctly, his main value was in his recording of Stoic ideals not in any particular wisdom (anger?) of his own.

If you're being ironic, bravo!

[BabaYaga 15328]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

if your concern is that the place can't be defended, then bagram isn't any better, and is in fact worse, because it's miles away from where the majority of our people were.  once the afghan government fell we've been dependent upon the self-interest of the taliban for security regardless of leaving from bagram, kabul, kandahar, mazar-i-sharif, helmand, etc. 

This first sentence makes no sense and defies two decades worth of operational experience.  You don't stage anything in the middle of downtown.  In the middle of congested, urban areas.  We've already seen bombers infiltrate via the chaos and clack off multiple bombs.   A giant bowl surrounded on virtually every side allowing for direct fire down into the region.  It's impossible to defend.  

Then you say once they (ANA) fell?  They fell because their support (among many things) evaporated overnight.  Once day they have support.  The next day the phones are dead.  This is why there are more than a few people questioning the viability of re-taking it.  

Abandoning the base was easily one of the most critical blunders of this entire process.  

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

if you're isis and the americans are all leaving via convoy down 30 miles of highway to bagram, you're licking your fucking chops.  it doesn't even take an artillery piece to shut that down, all you have to do is blow up a road in the middle of the night. 

How are people getting to Kabul?  Is everyone evacuated from one city?  The entire country is flooding into one congested region that we've seen we cannot defend.  Further, we already had the base.  US convoys would be no different than any other region in the country and less in the area that we staged operations out of for years.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

@BabaYaga, noted military strategist.

[BabaYaga 15328]

@DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt, noted boot licker

But you're correct, closing the main base of operations that has operated for 20 years was a great call.  Superb even.  Going dark in the middle of the night with no warnings to any of our allies was a particularly good call.  The ANA really needed little to no intelligence of air support. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

16 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

@BabaYaga, noted military strategist.

What exactly are you doing on this thread or wishing to accomplish? You don't seem to be contributing much of anything in good faith.

[fattyflattie 4638]

11 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

Hunt me down and put me in time out. 

Don’t threaten me with a good time. 
 

10 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Step 1: don't be a vapid cunt.

You fool. The answer is always to love Beto.  Or Saban.  You’re at least on step 3. 
 

Edited August 27, 2021 by fattyflattie
My phone hates your, you’re, uuure.

[Captainant 27829]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

@DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt, noted boot licker

But you're correct, closing the main base of operations that has operated for 20 years was a great call.  Superb even.  Going dark in the middle of the night with no warnings to any of our allies was a particularly good call.  The ANA really needed little to no intelligence of air support. 

lol, talk about the pot calling the kettle black

If you thought closing a base is bad - just think how frustrating it must have been for us to completely cut out the ANA and Afghani government from trump's negotiations with the taliban. I guess the ANA really needed little to no intelligence or coordination or knowledge of our actions.

Say - I wonder why they gave up so quickly... I bet it had nothing to do with trump's treating them as if they were already gone.

5 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

What exactly are you doing on this thread or wishing to accomplish? You don't seem to be contributing much of anything in good faith.

Also, lol talk about calling the kettle black. Although it's less of posting in bad faith for you, and just a monumental level of donkey-krueger syndrome

[BabaYaga 15328]

6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

What exactly are you doing on this thread or wishing to accomplish? You don't seem to be contributing much of anything in good faith.

He's one of the best goal tenders in the CR.  Cut him some slack.  

[wildcat09 29425]

7 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

What exactly are you doing on this thread or wishing to accomplish? You don't seem to be contributing much of anything in good faith.

Ah, yes, defending the pathological liar's good faith is the real good faith move.

[BabaYaga 15328]

This should work out well.

 

[aggie08 21555]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

This should work out well.

 

C'mon man, already?

"We need to get absolutely everyone who wants out, out!"

"We got too many people out."

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, aggie08 said:

C'mon man, already?

"We need to get absolutely everyone who wants out, out!"

"We got too many people out."

"We really need to help the Afghans!"

"We shouldn't accept refugees!"

[David Dennison 18951]

24 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

@DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt, noted boot licker

But you're correct, closing the main base of operations that has operated for 20 years was a great call.  Superb even.  Going dark in the middle of the night with no warnings to any of our allies was a particularly good call.  The ANA really needed little to no intelligence of air support. 

They were all warned. Good grief, don't be so gullible.

[BabaYaga 15328]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

C'mon man, already?

"We need to get absolutely everyone who wants out, out!"

"We got too many people out."

Mistakes were made.....

[Nivek 16992]

The Taliban was against the growth and sale of poppy, and they outlawed the practice of bachabaze, which was where pubescents boys were dressed up as little girls and gang raped, and they were given rice or a couple of dollars for their time.  Once they enter puberty they are cast aside and forced to live in shame as beggars. The Taliban outlawed this practice and it would cost you your life to participate in it.  Once the Taliban fell, this tradition re-emerged.   
Afghanistan supplies about 70% of the opium in the world.  The Taliban was effective in limiting that.
 

Damn, I know I get interrupted a lot when posting but that was nearly indecipherable.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

What exactly are you doing on this thread or wishing to accomplish? You don't seem to be contributing much of anything in good faith.

After being experts on everything for the last 4 years, it’s funny to watch collective CR play this “oh if it’s so easy you join the army” “look at this military expert, you should run for president” card.


What a bunch of taints.

[elfenix 34338]

43 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This first sentence makes no sense and defies two decades worth of operational experience.  You don't stage anything in the middle of downtown.  In the middle of congested, urban areas.  We've already seen bombers infiltrate via the chaos and clack off multiple bombs.   A giant bowl surrounded on virtually every side allowing for direct fire down into the region.  It's impossible to defend.  

Then you say once they (ANA) fell?  They fell because their support (among many things) evaporated overnight.  Once day they have support.  The next day the phones are dead.  This is why there are more than a few people questioning the viability of re-taking it.  

Abandoning the base was easily one of the most critical blunders of this entire process.  

How are people getting to Kabul?  Is everyone evacuated from one city?  The entire country is flooding into one congested region that we've seen we cannot defend.  Further, we already had the base.  US convoys would be no different than any other region in the country and less in the area that we staged operations out of for years.  

you want 100,000 people making a 30 mile trip from kabul to bagram.  and think it wouldn't be an absolute shit show. 

[WhatTheBuck 28807]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[DDD Dad 14352]

7 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

After being experts on everything for the last 4 years, it’s funny to watch collective CR play this “oh if it’s so easy you join the army” “look at this military expert, you should run for president” card.


What a bunch of taints.

This is how you do deflection.

 

[BabaYaga 15328]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

you want 100,000 people making a 30 mile trip from kabul to bagram.  and think it wouldn't be an absolute shit show. 

As opposed to what we are seeing now?  Where do you think they are coming from now exactly?  Do you think they were all in Kabul to start with?

[GW Hayduke 1953]

20 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This should work out well.

 

Consider whether the daily mail along with anything on twitter is something you need in your information diet.  Just because you see something on twitter that fits your world view, doesn't mean you should consume it or pass it on.  

[elfenix 34338]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

As opposed to what we are seeing now?  Where do you think they are coming from now exactly?  Do you think they were all in Kabul to start with?

this hasn't been near the shitshow that making everyone going to bagram would be. 

[BabaYaga 15328]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Consider whether the daily mail along with anything on twitter is something you need in your information diet.  Just because you see something on twitter that fits your world view, doesn't mean you should consume it or pass it on.  

What exactly is my world view as it relates to this topic?

[BabaYaga 15328]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

this hasn't been near the shitshow that making everyone going to bagram would be. 

If you say so...

[elfenix 34338]

hell, this hasn't even been near the shitshow that the LiBeRaL mEdIa made everyone think it was going to be.

[InkaUtexas 26174]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this hasn't been near the shitshow that making everyone going to bagram would be. 

I agree Bagram would be a bad decision for evacuation, but then I also think we should have run evacuation from other cities. Bagram would have been good for Command and Control. I mean it was a pretty bad ass facility built for that.

[TwiceHorn 31567]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

This is still a backwards way of thinking when it comes to this kind of enemy. There is no anthill we can drop a bomb on. There is no queen we can kill to collapse the colony. I’m not saying we don’t take action, but it’s a lot more difficult to execute. Afghanistan is pure fucking chaos, and all of our resources are focused on protecting that bubble in and around HKIA. Some training camp will get smoked at some point in the near future, or a house will get smart bombed because it was a meeting spot, and  ISIS will reshuffle their cards and keep going. 

Yeah.  These are fanatics in their homeland.  Retaliation isn't going to make a dent because they don't think like we do.  If anything, it's further justification for acting out against us.

[wildcat09 29425]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

What exactly is my world view as it relates to this topic?

Your world view is whatever lie you need to tell in this exact moment to convince yourself that you're right.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

What exactly is my world view as it relates to this topic?

One that is likely amplified by an inability to properly manage your information diet.  There is a reason why you have accepted that all the generals wanted to use Bagram, that the taliban broke their promises in the DOHA, that Fauci went behind Trump's back to restart GOF research, or that Fauci's emails show he was the father of covid.  That reason has to do with your information diet and inability to properly regulate the media you choose to consume.  For example, the daily mail should be removed from your diet - along with anything on twitter until you are able to properly use it.  

[BabaYaga 15328]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I agree Bagram would be a bad decision for evacuation, but then I also think we should have run evacuation from other cities. Bagram would have been good for Command and Control. I mean it was a pretty bad ass facility built for that.

If NOTHING else, the intelligence and support it provides for US and ANA members to help them from dissolving would be invaluable right now.  Milley cited it was either the base or the $800M embassy, which is also now abandoned.  

[elfenix 34338]

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

One that is likely amplified by an inability to properly manage your information diet.  There is a reason why you have accepted that all the generals wanted to use Bagram, that the taliban broke their promises in the DOHA, that Fauci went behind Trump's back to restart GOF research, or that Fauci's emails show he was the father of covid.  That reason has to do with your information diet and inability to properly regulate the media you choose to consume.  For example, the daily mail should be removed from your diet - along with anything on twitter until you are able to properly use it.  

twitter is for porn.

[InkaUtexas 26174]

Yes, for C and C. Not for evacuation. It is a hell of a road and would present a lot of targets for the shit heads. 

[aggie08 21555]

18 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

If you say so...

Apparently, keeping Bagram open was never in the cards. So, if you had heard Milley's position on it way back in June (and I didn't see the video until yesterday either), do you think you would have immediately called it stupid and doomed for failure? Or would you have given a proven leader the benefit of the doubt and tactical expertise, and you're only calling it such an "obvious mistake" now because of the results?

Serious intelligence mistakes were made, Americans are dead, and, as President, that ultimately falls on Biden. I'm pissed at how this is turning out, don't buy into all of it being inevitable, and expect answers and heads to roll if necessary. But you have to stop with the "if they had just done this, this, and this" over-simplistic bullshit. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by aggie08

[GW Hayduke 1953]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

twitter is for porn.

It is.  It can be used for right-wing revenge porn just as much as left-wing revenge porn.  The trick is to understand that and limit consumption to a small group of trusted users.

[elfenix 34338]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Serious intelligence mistakes were made

that'll be the title of the ken burns of our entire time there.

[TXSG8R 3362]

13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this hasn't been near the shitshow that making everyone going to bagram would be. 

I guess I just don’t see how much it would have improved things, if any?  We pushed out 120k+ people from HKIA and lost 13 marines in one suicide bombing incident. Even if we accept some pristine evac route from Kabul to Bagram that doesn’t diminish the volume of people getting there, I doubt we have any noticeable increase in flights. I also don’t see any way our security posture improves to avoid a suicide bombing like what happened at HKIA. If a bomber walks up to a checkpoint buried in a crowd, they will inflict casualties. At some point that checkpoint is manned by our people, whether it’s Bagram or HKIA. 

[BabaYaga 15328]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

One that is likely amplified by an inability to properly manage your information diet.  There is a reason why you have accepted that all the generals wanted to use Bagram, that the taliban broke their promises in the DOHA, that Fauci went behind Trump's back to restart GOF research, or that Fauci's emails show he was the father of covid.  That reason has to do with your information diet and inability to properly regulate the media you choose to consume.  For example, the daily mail should be removed from your diet - along with anything on twitter until you are able to properly use it.  

So you're saying that many US leaders didn't want to keep a military presence in country and not give up, as @InkaUtexas mentioned our biggest and most sophisticated command and control station?  

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

So you're saying that many US leaders didn't want to keep a military presence in country and not give up, as @InkaUtexas mentioned our biggest and most sophisticated command and control station?  

I'm saying the root cause of your unsupported narratives is your information diet.  

[WhatTheBuck 28807]

9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I agree Bagram would be a bad decision for evacuation, but then I also think we should have run evacuation from other cities. Bagram would have been good for Command and Control. I mean it was a pretty bad ass facility built for that.

I think the problem with using Bagram right up until the end is that we couldn’t do that without still leaving it as a usable facility for the Taliban. We left it disabled. The Taliban won’t be able to restore power let alone fly sorties out of there. (As if they could muster an air force.) I’ll bet we protected a lot of intelligence and technology from falling into Taliban hands by crippling that place early.

[BabaYaga 15328]

6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Apparently, keeping Bagram open was never in the cards. So, if you had heard Milley's position on it way back in June (and I didn't see the video until yesterday either), do you think you would have immediately called it stupid and doomed for failure? Or would you have given a proven leader the benefit of the doubt and tactical expertise, and you're only calling it such an "obvious mistake" now because of the results?

Serious intelligence mistakes were made, Americans are dead, and, as President, that ultimately falls on Biden. I'm pissed at how this is turning out, don't buy into all of it being inevitable, and expect answers and heads to roll if necessary. But you have to stop with the "if they had just done this, this, and this" over-simplistic bullshit. 

Milley said in his presser keeping the base and the embassy open was too much, so they chose the embassy (that is now abandoned).  The rationale was for troop capacity.  Do you think an embassy that we never intended to maintain vs the biggest base of operations we had in the country was a good call?  It's not simplistic.  It's obvious.  Nor was "all" of it inevitable, but you can point to many things that were.  

[BabaYaga 15328]

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I'm saying the root cause of your unsupported narratives is your information diet.  

Many US leaders wanting to maintain a presence in country is unsupported?

[babysdaddy 2728]

2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Bagram is the new Ben Ghazi. No investigation of infamous Jan. 6. Endless investigations of Bagram. 

If the GOPs controlled the House, they'd do a retaliatory impeachment.

You're all despicable fuckwads. Don't pretend like you give a fuck about anything other than the jersey you wear or hide beneath your overshirt. 

There should be an investigation of this withdrawal with the aim of informing future policy and strategy. That's not what you're after. You're living it up as an amateur operative with no moral compass and no real care for the country you falsely claim to care about.

You are more dangerous to this country than any foreign enemy. 

If you and Nicole procreate can you please please please name your baby Adolf?

[wildcat09 29425]

I like how the liar is back around to criticizing the decision to leave, despite repeatedly saying it wasn't about the decision to leave only how it was handled.

[DDD Dad 14352]

23 minutes ago, elfenix said:

twitter is for porn.