Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Macklemore 2945]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

He's right though: the withdrawal is on "Corn Pop." He approved a really shitty plan. It's going to be messy for a couple of weeks.

But, as it's looking now, not a single American will be killed on their way out the door, and we'll be out of that godforsaken country that no one has wanted to be in--or cared about--for at least 10 years (during which time American soldiers were actually dying).

FOX News, Facebook, and his favorite alt right websites will try to keep BabaYaga's outrage going for a few more months, but it will eventually peter out, making room for the next big grievance. Probably what to do with all these damn Afghan immigrants that Biden had the audacity to bring into our country.

The US should only let in educated, Westernized Afghanis into this country. For women, at least, that’s easy to determine - reject any of them that wears a hijab. Do not bring in people who have beliefs and lifestyle hostile to ours. Do not do a repeat of what has happened in Minnesota with their Somali community.

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

So you merged the two threads but went with The Onion title of the thread moved from DT? Should’ve kept the CR title. 

[wildcat09 29579]

11 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The US should only let in educated, Westernized Afghanis into this country. For women, at least, that’s easy to determine - reject any of them that wears a hijab. Do not bring in people who have beliefs and lifestyle hostile to ours. Do not do a repeat of what has happened in Minnesota with their Somali community.

Counterproposal: let's let all Afghan women in who want to come and let's send you to Afghanistan.

Edited August 18, 2021 by wildcat09

[Nivek 17415]

57 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

 

Have you ever read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Her story is really interesting. She was born dirt poor in rural Somalia. But she was taught by her grandmother all about the animals and their migration patterns, the seasons, how to stay safe from predators, how to use plants for medicine, etc. They lived off the land. Her story is both inspirational and tragic because she was subjected to the barbaric custom of female genital mutilation. (A custom that predates Islam and has been practiced by Christian communities as well.) But the knowledge base of people living in that way and in that time and place far exceeds our own. We wouldn’t last long trying to live that way without someone to teach us.

But one of the most interesting things is that, living in a tribal society, she was taught from a young age to memorize her last 100 paternal ancestors. Whenever you met another member of your tribe, you’d both recite your ancestors until you found a common relative. I think that’s amazing. I have a book on the genealogy of my dad’s side of the family and I know who my first ancestor was who came to America. (An orphan who came from Switzerland to live with Amish relatives in northeast Ohio.) But that doesn’t even go back a dozen generations. My mom couldn’t name her great grandfather. Knowledge comes in different forms and there are intelligent people everywhere regardless of culture or technological advancement.

Edit: No idea how the double quote happened.

We teach what is necessary to survive in our environments.  That little girl that is studies her family history is likely part of a tribe that has a tribal identity and not a nationalistic one.  She likely does not know the capital of Alaska.  

Oh, and we seem to have plenty of genital mutilation going on here as well, maybe we should pull thy mote from our own eye, or however it was phrased.  

[UDontKnow 10572]

12 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The US should only let in educated, Westernized Afghanis into this country. For women, at least, that’s easy to determine - reject any of them that wears a hijab. Do not bring in people who have beliefs and lifestyle hostile to ours. Do not do a repeat of what has happened in Minnesota with their Somali community.

Pardon my ignorance, but would you please expand on the bolded?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

17 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

The US should only let in educated, Westernized Afghanis into this country. For women, at least, that’s easy to determine - reject any of them that wears a hijab. Do not bring in people who have beliefs and lifestyle hostile to ours. Do not do a repeat of what has happened in Minnesota with their Somali community.

first you let them wear hijabs, then they're high on meth getting a train run on them in a porn theater.

[wildcat09 29579]

5 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Pardon my ignorance, but would you please expand on the bolded?

Icono hates immigrants unless they convert to Christianity and start screaming about how we need to shoot all the immigrants that are coming in after them.

['stache 22143]

15 hours ago, Hpara759 said:

to soon?

I would usually joke about going to hell, etc., but I feel legitimately bad for chuckling at this one. Tragic.

[Macklemore 2945]

1 minute ago, UDontKnow said:

Pardon my ignorance, but would you please expand on the bolded?

Insular community where women are still oppressed and subject to harsh Islamic treatment and female genital mutilation. I have linked non-partisan articles on this subject.

https://m.startribune.com/minnesota-bill-against-female-mutilation-raises-opposition/423070383/

https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/female-genital-mutilation-somali-american-community/3564258.html

[Macklemore 2945]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Icono hates immigrants unless they convert to Christianity and start screaming about how we need to shoot all the immigrants that are coming in after them.

LOL keep choking that chicken thinking that I am Icono. He had to ban himself in order to stop posting in CR. I’m only on this thread because it was originally in DT. I have self-control unlike that freak. Back to the topic at hand, US should assist with Afghan refugees to be settled in Muslim countries. Only those willing to live as Americans and have something to offer should be allowed to immigrate here.

[elfenix 34751]

20 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

So you merged the two threads but went with The Onion title of the thread moved from DT? Should’ve kept the CR title. 

thread mergers suck ass unless done almost immediately at the start of a thread.

[InkaUtexas 26891]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

LOL keep choking that chicken thinking that I am Icono. He had to ban himself in order to stop posting in CR. I’m only on this thread because it was originally in DT. I have self-control unlike that freak. Back to the topic at hand, US should assist with Afghan refugees to be settled in Muslim countries. Only those willing to live as Americans and have something to offer should be allowed to immigrate here.

Define something to offer. I for one love Afghan food and would love to support a local restaurant. I would also support their daughters becoming scientists, doctors, whatever the fuck they want to be. Know why? It is the American Dream. 

[InkaUtexas 26891]

Just now, elfenix said:

thread mergers suck ass unless done almost immediately at the start of a thread.

So Like Realignment 4 years in advance? 

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

19 minutes ago, Nivek said:

We teach what is necessary to survive in our environments.  That little girl that is studies her family history is likely part of a tribe that has a tribal identity and not a nationalistic one.  She likely does not know the capital of Alaska.  

Oh, and we seem to have plenty of genital mutilation going on here as well, maybe we should pull thy mote from our own eye, or however it was phrased.  

I love my circumcised penis.

Every chance I get.

[UDontKnow 10572]

8 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

LOL keep choking that chicken thinking that I am Icono. He had to ban himself in order to stop posting in CR. I’m only on this thread because it was originally in DT. I have self-control unlike that freak. Back to the topic at hand, US should assist with Afghan refugees to be settled in Muslim countries. Only those willing to live as Americans and have something to offer should be allowed to immigrate here.

This is an excellent point you bring up that doesn't get scrutinized enough. You don't see Iran, Pakistan, or Tajikistan chomping at the bit to accept Afghan refugees even though many of these tribes/ethnicities extend into those nations and would most certainly be better religious and cultural fits. 

[workswithseed 2204]

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I love my circumcised penis.

Every chance I get.

Good thing you're not a castrato. What the fuck Catholics?

[GW Hayduke 1957]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Once we left.  Read it again.  Once.  We.  Left.  

Not before.  Not during.  It was effectively a cease fire.  This isn't complicated.  The Taliban broke that cease fire.   

Which is the whole fucking point.  JFC.  We made public overtures, augured in on a symbolic date, relied on faulty intel to justify it, then when shit hit the fan, were effectively painted into a corner because we refused to pivot or make changes as we saw things dissolving before our eyes.  

 

Bullshit.  Leaving is the correct thing to do.  Stranding thousands of western civilians and abandoning billions in US hardware and sensitive com devices is fucking not.  Identifying the ways and means to prioritize western civilians stranded seems pretty fucking obvious.  As is having a contingency if/when the intel reports of the ineffectiveness of the ANA comes to bear - as it did.  

Hahaha. Why is it Baby Yaga is always the biggest clown in these threads?  He states a position.  When asked to show evidence to support that position, he provides evidence that doesn’t support the position.   Others provide evidence countering Baby Yaga’s position. Baby Yaga doubles down with evidence that doesn’t support his position. Rinse and repeat. 

 

[elfenix 34751]

3 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

This is an excellent point you bring up that doesn't get scrutinized enough. You don't see Iran, Pakistan, or Tajikistan chomping at the bit to accept Afghan refugees even though many of these tribes/ethnicities extend into those nations and would most certainly be better religious and cultural fits. 

*champing

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

21 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

first you let them wear hijabs, then they're high on meth getting a train run on them in a porn theater.

Is this your pitch to get the hard right to accept these folks as refugees? Because it might just work. It won't be publicly endorsed, but it might work.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

2 minutes ago, elfenix said:

*champing

Let's promote archaic language in an attempt to keep society from evolving! The word champing become chomping. Deal with it.

[Tuco 5093]

1 minute ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Is this your pitch to get the hard right to accept these folks as refugees? Because it might just work. It won't be publicly endorsed, but it might work.

Matt Gaetz is willing to give the youth of Afghanistan a chance. 

[Longhornlove 5209]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

Matt Gaetz is willing to give the youth of Afghanistan a chance. 

Heard Joe Biden would give them a sniff.

[wildcat09 29579]

11 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

This is an excellent point you bring up that doesn't get scrutinized enough. You don't see Iran, Pakistan, or Tajikistan chomping at the bit to accept Afghan refugees even though many of these tribes/ethnicities extend into those nations and would most certainly be better religious and cultural fits. 

No other country in the world is ever eager to let immigrants in. That’s what makes America special.

ETA: or, more realistically, it’s supposed to be what makes us special, but we suck at living up to our ideals.

Edited August 18, 2021 by wildcat09

[BabaYaga 15625]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

@BabaYaga, quote the actual parts of the DOHA agreement (a link to which has been provided three different fucking times on this page) that you think the Taliban violated or shut the fuck up. 

The counter terrorism provision you giant poon.  Also called a cease fire in which the agreement requires the Taliban not to allow al-Qa’ida or others to use Afghan territory to attack the United States and its allies.  They also didn't hold any talks as stipulated with the Afghan government

[wildcat09 29579]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

The counter terrorism provision you giant poon.  Also called a cease fire in which the agreement requires the Taliban not to allow al-Qa’ida or others to use Afghan territory to attack the United States and its allies.  They also didn't hold any talks as stipulated with the Afghan government

Quote the actual language you think they violated.

[Captainant 28539]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Quote the actual language you think they violated.

quit being so hard on baby yaga! fox and his facebook feed haven't given him his talking points yet

[hpslugga 4097]

24 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

LOL keep choking that chicken thinking that I am Icono. He had to ban himself in order to stop posting in CR. I’m only on this thread because it was originally in DT. I have self-control unlike that freak.

You have self-control?

That’s a very Icono thing to do: make a random-assed, unprovoked comment about me and the spread offense every so often. 
 

self-control my ass. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

No other country in the world is ever eager to let immigrants in. That’s what makes America special.

ETA: or, more realistically, it’s supposed to be what makes us special, but we suck at living up to our ideals.

We do indeed suck at living up to our stated ideals, but as much as we suck at it, we probably still suck the least at it. 

[wildcat09 29579]

Everyone on Surly knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that this dude is Icono and he still pretends otherwise, and even calls Icono a freak, despite acting exactly like Icono and espousing all of the same opinions as Icono. 

It’s fascinating insight into the mind of a truly deranged person.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2153]

Here is Utah offering to lend a hand on the refugee/asylum situation.  It’s a surprising state.  Often guided by their shared religion, often working directly against it. 

[hayden_horn 11402]

18 hours ago, troph said:

I think talking policy and facts without taking sides should be allowed but I’m a pollyanna like that.  

i get it but policy and politics live in the same house. "news" is not that house.

[DDD Dad 14650]

[BabaYaga 15625]

11 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Quote the actual language you think they violated.

LOL, ok

In conjunction with the announcement of this agreement, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will take the following steps to prevent any group or individual, including al-Qa’ida, from using the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies:

How do we know they violated?  Lets ask the UN:

Quote

“The United Nations [U.N.] said on Oct. 31, 2020, that al Qaeda fighters are among Taliban ranks and that it is a violation of the Doha agreement,”

 

[hayden_horn 11402]

17 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Looks at the covid thread. 

fixing to move that shit as well. you are one of the leading perps.

[crash_davis 23470]

 

 

 

 

[BabaYaga 15625]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

 

 

 

Wheeeee...

[troph 25227]

7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i get it but policy and politics live in the same house. "news" is not that house.

not my website, I have your blessing, etc. but the divide should be between the sport of politics and the discussion of current events.  I get you are drawing the line on strict news vs. discussion because if it's discussed adults can't help but devolve in to the team sports aspect of it but the natural line in a proper world is not strict news vs. discussion it's the vile team sport part that needs to be cut out and eliminated allowing for strict news and discussion about that news.   but I get it, that's not possible.

[mchookem 16768]

25 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

We do indeed suck at living up to our stated ideals, but as much as we suck at it, we probably still suck the least at it. 

 

[workswithseed 2204]

13 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

fixing to move that shit as well. you are one of the leading perps.

No argument from me. 

[Royalfan5 2384]

24 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

Here is Utah offering to lend a hand on the refugee/asylum situation.  It’s a surprising state.  Often guided by their shared religion, often working directly against it. 

The Mormons and the ELCA Lutherans are probably the religious groups that do the most in refugee resettlement area. 

[wildcat09 29579]

15 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

LOL, ok

In conjunction with the announcement of this agreement, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will take the following steps to prevent any group or individual, including al-Qa’ida, from using the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies:

How do we know they violated?  Lets ask the UN:

 

Thank you, was that so hard? Sure, we could've used that as an excuse to break our side of the agreement, but (1) the Taliban would argue that whoever used to be Al-Qaida wasn't Al-Qaida anymore so that wasn't actually a breach of the agreement (not that it really makes a shit since there was nobody to enforce the agreement on either party) and (2) we didn't want to stay, and we certainly didn't want to escalate hostilities in response to such a trivial breach of the agreement.

[sidis 10017]

52 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

This is an excellent point you bring up that doesn't get scrutinized enough. You don't see Iran, Pakistan, or Tajikistan chomping at the bit to accept Afghan refugees even though many of these tribes/ethnicities extend into those nations and would most certainly be better religious and cultural fits. 

not quite accurate.  of course no one wants to accept refugees but saying that pakistan and iran haven't been willing to is counterfactual...particularly relative to the united states.

 

[Tuco 5093]

23 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

LOL, ok

In conjunction with the announcement of this agreement, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will take the following steps to prevent any group or individual, including al-Qa’ida, from using the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies:

How do we know they violated?  Lets ask the UN:

 

So, just to keep track of the trajectory of the goal posts, that's not the same thing you were saying previously.  Agree? 

[hpslugga 4097]

11 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

The Mormons and the ELCA Lutherans are probably the religious groups that do the most in refugee resettlement area. 

Probably has to do with the history of their treatment in the US.

[Tuco 5093]

30 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

LOL, ok

In conjunction with the announcement of this agreement, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will take the following steps to prevent any group or individual, including al-Qa’ida, from using the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies:

How do we know they violated?  Lets ask the UN:

 

Oh, and sure, let's ask the UN.  And then we can use more current quotes, in context, and link the sources. 

From April '21: 

Quote

A significant part of the leadership of Al-Qaida (QDe.004) resides in the Afghanistan and Pakistan border region, alongside Al-Qaida in the Indian Subcontinent. Large numbers of Al-Qaida fighters and other foreign extremist elements aligned with the Taliban are located in various parts of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida continued to suffer attrition during the period under review, with a number of senior figures killed, often alongside Taliban associates while co-located with them. The primary component of the Taliban in dealing with Al-Qaida is the Haqqani Network (TAe.012). Ties between the two groups remain close, based on ideological alignment, relationships forged through common struggle and intermarriage. The Taliban has begun to tighten its control over Al-Qaida by gathering information on foreign terrorist fighters and registering and restricting them. However, it has not made any concessions in this regard that it could not easily and quickly reverse, and it is impossible to assess with confidence that the Taliban will live up to its commitment to suppress any future international threat emanating from Al-Qaida in Afghanistan. Al-Qaida and likeminded militants continue to celebrate developments in Afghanistan as a victory for the Taliban’s cause and thus for global radicalism.

UN Docs

The UN is not saying the Taliban has violated the treaty.  

 

[UDontKnow 10572]

11 minutes ago, sidis said:

not quite accurate.  of course no one wants to accept refugees but saying that pakistan and iran haven't been willing to is counterfactual...particularly relative to the united states.

 

Thanks for the information. I did not realize how big of a role Germany played in stepping up for Afghan refugees.

I wonder from what year did these counts begin (did these Afghan refugees flee Taliban or did they flee after the Western invasion in 2001?) and it will be interesting to see if this pattern will hold now that the Taliban is in power.

I would not be surprised if refugees begin to be expelled from Pakistan and Iran. There is one caveat to Iran and that is if they create a proxy war situation in Afghanistan using the local Shi'ite population (IIRC Herat has the largest concentration of Shi'ites) along their border with Afghanistan. As we all know, Pakistan created and actively support the Taliban, so the struggle to control of Afghanistan might lead to an Iran-Pakistan tussle.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13731]

Has anyone actually asked the Afghans refugees if they want to resettle in the US? I know we think highly ourselves but maybe they would prefer Pakistan or somewhere in the Muslim regions.

[InkaUtexas 26891]

1 hour ago, UDontKnow said:

This is an excellent point you bring up that doesn't get scrutinized enough. You don't see Iran, Pakistan, or Tajikistan chomping at the bit to accept Afghan refugees even though many of these tribes/ethnicities extend into those nations and would most certainly be better religious and cultural fits. 

um, well ya see.... they are overloaded in two of the three. And um, well the north was pretty stable up until a few years ago. 

https://www.statista.com/chart/25559/host-countries-of-afghan-refugees/

According to the UNHCR, there were around 2.6 million Afghan refugees abroad at the end of 2020 that hadn’t entered or completed asylum processes. A rundown of their locations gives an overview of where Afghans typically seek refuge. 85 percent of Afghan refugees can be found in Afghanistan’s neighboring countries Iran and Pakistan, while Germany comes third with 148,000 – or around 5.5 percent – of Afghan refugees counted in late 2020.

[elfenix 34751]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

How do we know they violated?  Lets ask the UN:

 

[Citation needed]

[BabaYaga 15625]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Thank you, was that so hard? Sure, we could've used that as an excuse to break our side of the agreement, but (1) the Taliban would argue that whoever used to be Al-Qaida wasn't Al-Qaida anymore so that wasn't actually a breach of the agreement (not that it really makes a shit since there was nobody to enforce the agreement on either party) and (2) we didn't want to stay, and we certainly didn't want to escalate hostilities in response to such a trivial breach of the agreement.

It's four pages.  Hardly a spending bill.  

Either way, Biden was not locked into the bill.  He summarily tore up the Iran "deal" Trump orchestrated.  He tore up virtually EVERY Trump bill but this one?  

The good news is, we had/have our own Afghans that are amazing at slicing through the tribal and cultural soup and identifying whom is whom.  They (Taliban) can "claim" all they want, but we still controlled the high ground, the roads, and the air and had good intel on who was where. 

Had the new administration taken this seriously, read the intel warning that the ANA was going to fall the fuck apart, and planned for such contingencies......namely, getting western civilians, NGO's, and journalists to safety FIRST, and then started to back away along with sensitive documents, coms gear, etc and THEN start the departure, this is much less of a grade A cluster fuck.