Things going on in Cuba...

[GRHorn 105]

Spoiler

MIAMI — Shouting “Freedom” and other anti-government slogans, thousands of Cubans took to the streets in cities around the country on Sunday to protest food and medicine shortages, in a remarkable eruption of discontent not seen in nearly 30 years.

Thousands of people marched through San Antonio de los Baños, southwest of Havana, with videos streaming live on Facebook for nearly an hour before they suddenly disappeared. As the afternoon wore on, other videos appeared from demonstrations elsewhere, including Palma Soriano, in the country’s southeast. Hundreds of people also gathered in Havana, where a heavy police presence preceded their arrival.

“The people are dying of hunger!” one woman shouted during a protest filmed in the province of Artemisa, in the island’s west. “Our children are dying of hunger!”

One clip circulating on Twitter showed protesters overturning a police car in Cardenas, 90 miles east of Havana. Another video showed people looting from one of the much-detested government-run stores, which sell wildly overpriced items in currencies most Cubans do not possess.

 

In a country known for repressive crackdowns on dissent, the rallies were widely viewed as astonishing. Activists and analysts called it the first time that so many people had openly protested against the Communist government since the so-called Maleconazo uprising, which exploded in the summer of 1994 into a huge wave of Cubans leaving the country by sea.

Carolina Barrero, a Cuban activist, went even further. “It is the most massive popular demonstration to protest the government that we have experienced in Cuba since ’59,” she said by text message, referring to the year Fidel Castro took power. She called the public outpouring on Sunday “spontaneous, frontal and forceful.”

 

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“What has happened is enormous,” she added.

The protests were set off by a dire economic crisis in Cuba, where the coronavirus pandemic has cut off crucial tourism dollars. People now spend hours in line each day to buy basic food items. Many have been unable to work because restaurants and other businesses have remained on lockdown for months.
 

The desperate conditions have triggered an uptick in migration by both land and sea.

Since the start of the fiscal year last October, the U.S. Coast Guard has intercepted more than 512 Cubans at sea, compared with 49 for the entire previous year. On Saturday, the Coast Guard suspended the search for nine Cuban migrants whose vessel overturned at sea off Key West, Fla.

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The Cuban government attributes its longstanding economic problems to the American trade embargo, which cuts off its access to financing and imports. But the pandemic has worsened conditions, and in Matanzas, east of Havana, some patients and their families have resorted to posting videos on YouTube of furious people screaming about the lack of medicine and doctors.

The Cuban Ministry of Health website says the nation of 11 million now has about 32,000 active cases of Covid-19. It reported 6,923 daily cases and 47 deaths on Sunday, breaking its prior record, set just Friday. Only about 15 percent of the population is fully vaccinated, the government said.

The protest movement gained momentum after a number of celebrities started tweeting with the hashtag #SOSCuba. Mia Khalifa, a former adult film actress with nearly four million followers on Twitter, joined in by tweeting insults directed at the president. The president’s office even responded to criticism by a Puerto Rican singer, Residente. The post was later removed.

President Miguel Díaz-Canel took office three years ago, the first time someone outside the Castro family was allowed to take the post. Raúl Castro, who had already handed over the presidency, then stepped down as the leader of the Communist Party this year.

Mr. Díaz-Canel’s term was, at first, marked by increased access to the internet, which helped fuel public discontent against him, particularly by artists.

Cuba’s foreign minister, Bruno Rodríguez, confirmed via Twitter that Mr. Díaz-Canel had rushed to San Antonio de los Baños, where the government insisted that “salaried” protesters were trying to provoke a severe reaction by the authorities.

“Celebrating what they orchestrated today in San Antonio de los Baños only uncovers the worst nature of people,” a government Twitter account quoted the president as saying.

“Cubans know perfectly well that the government of the United States is principally responsible for Cuba’s current situation,” the foreign ministry said in a Twitter post. “Cuba and its streets belong to the revolutionaries.”

 

Within hours of the extraordinary events, the president broke into national television programming to urge government supporters to hit the streets and confront the protesters. He blamed the United States for restricting exports, access to funds and travel to Cuba, which led to widespread shortages.

Mr. Díaz-Canel said in televised remarks on Sunday that the protests were a form of “systemic provocation” by dissidents doing the bidding of the United States. He said Washington in recent months had sought to destabilize and weaken the island’s economy as part of a policy designed to “provoke a massive social implosion.”

Granma, the Cuban Communist Party newspaper, said in a rare reference to demonstrations that people who took to the streets on Sunday included government supporters who “may have been confused by disinformation on social media.”

“We call all revolutionaries to hit the streets to defend the revolution everywhere,” the president said. He added that people loyal to the revolution were willing to give their lives to defend the government. “Over our dead bodies,” he said. “We are prepared to do anything.”

Earlier on Sunday, Mr. Díaz-Canel posted photographs of nurses and other medical personnel arriving by bus in Matanzas. But it was too late: The months of pent-up frustration exploded.

“They should be calling for peace and dialogue, not blood,” Andy Ruiz, a protester in Havana, said in an interview. “What I saw today was people seeing freedom for the first time.”

Adonis Milán, a theater director in Havana, said the extreme conditions became too much to bear.

“This is no longer a question of freedom of expression; it’s a question of hunger,” Mr. Milán said. “People are hitting the street. They are asking for an end to this government, to one-party rule, to repression and the misery we have lived through for 60 years.”

A few hours later, he called back, sobbing, saying that the internet had been cut off, that anti-riot squads were in the streets and that a number of artists had been arrested after they demanded airtime on national television.

“I managed to escape,” he said.

 

[troph 24781]

questions about what can the US do and China has assets in Latin America and brutality on the streets brings up questions about prior policies/doctrines.  Monroe Doctrine and its various intepretations, American hegemony, unilateralism, even the response to the communist revolution and the like.  While brut force and covert assassination attempts, and proxy wars might not be the right tactic, the peace and harmony from a US perspective in the western hemisphere has been a critical component to US stability over the years and there is no doubt in my mind that keeping others out has been a huge part of that.  I get that peace and harmony has involved civil wars, unrest, etc. but for the most part it's been contained and occurred with out foreign actors other than the US taking an influential role (again for the most part). 

I think having an unstable government 90 miles away is something we can't allow. I certainly don't think the US can intervene heavy handedly but we damn sure need to keep others out and more than anything the US needs stability.  While giving Latin American countries a right to self govern is important and retracting from an implementation of policies that resulted in heavy meddling is good, we cannot make the mistake of creating a vacuum of power.  Several countries are lost/never found (hati, Venezuela) but letting that grow and inviting an opportunity for China is not good on any level.

If the rebels are successful, we have to go in with the biggest aid package the world has ever seen and make sure Cuba is a free, stable and prosperous Cuba and one of our most strategic and important trading partners along with Mexico and Candada.

Edited July 12, 2021 by troph

[Bevo 13559]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

If the rebels are successful, we have to go in with the biggest aid package the world has ever seen and make sure Cuba is a free, stable and prosperous Cuba and one of our most strategic and important trading partners along with Mexico and Candada.

I don't think that would be an issue. A democratic Cuba would immediately bring in Marriott and Hilton and smaller hoteliers. US tourism dollars would flow. OTOH, Puerto Rico has continuously had issues and tourism hasn't helped as much as it should. I think overpopulation of some of the large Caribbean islands plays a role as the natural resources  and tourism dollars doesn't bring in the cash flow needed to support the population.

[Parliament 14227]

1234

[South Austin 52431]

Guys, guys, it's pronounced Coo-bah.

[troph 24781]

8 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I don't think that would be an issue. A democratic Cuba would immediately bring in Marriott and Hilton and smaller hoteliers. US tourism dollars would flow. OTOH, Puerto Rico has continuously had issues and tourism hasn't helped as much as it should. I think overpopulation of some of the large Caribbean islands plays a role as the natural resources  and tourism dollars doesn't bring in the cash flow needed to support the population.

it's the liminal space between the immediate aftermath of the uprising and those capitalism dollars flowing from trade a few years later that I'm talking about and even possibly pushing the country over the edge to democracy if its required.

[faps 806]

What is the end game for these regimes? For the few in power to live in luxury while the country crumbles around you?

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, faps said:

What is the end game for these regimes? For the few in power to live in luxury while the country crumbles around you?

Yes 

[Armybrat 40815]

12 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Guys, guys, it's pronounced Coo-bah.

That’s not what JFK said

[InkaUtexas 25853]

And once they collapse its off to Switzerland or Miami for a few years in exile. 

[CHIEF 5075]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

it's the liminal space between the immediate aftermath of the uprising and those capitalism dollars flowing from trade a few years later that I'm talking about and even possibly pushing the country over the edge to democracy if its required. 

CHIEF

They will better off in the first year just selling cigars and rum in the US. Expedite importing regs and have the export buyers lining up shipping containers. Cohiba instantly has a new 30,000,000 cigar market, and Habana Club would grab a huge market share in the US as well. Everybody that can grow tobacco, roll cigars, grow and harvest sugarcane will have a job.

CHIEF

Edited July 12, 2021 by CHIEF
thur jobs

[GRHorn 105]

Haven’t seen this video yet. El Presidente is pissed. 

 

[The Dog 44017]

13 minutes ago, faps said:

What is the end game for these regimes? For the few in power to live in luxury while the country crumbles around you?

stay in power at all costs because if they get overthrown they will be put on trial and executed.

[InkaUtexas 25853]

It is rare they get executed. Most just leave at the last minute. I say offer the regime some condo's in Miami and a quiet exit. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

It is rare they get executed. Most just leave at the last minute. I say offer the regime some condo's in Miami and a quiet exit. 

Isn’t that kind of the same as executing them?

[RPM 26315]

5 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I say offer the regime some condo's in Miami Haiti and a quiet exit. 

Miami would be a no go. Haiti has a job opening.

[InkaUtexas 25853]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

Isn’t that kind of the same as executing them?

Not all the buildings fell so kind of like a lottery. 

[troph 24781]

yes the prosperity will all be instantaneous. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by troph

[CHIEF 5075]

Another thing that could help stabilize the country, if a successful revolution occurs, is a big influx of Cubans from Miami moving back home. It seems they would be very instrumental in helping establish a republic since most of the Cuban population probably has no idea of how to install a representative form of government. Many of them, I'm sure still love their homeland, and dreamed of the day they could return and help Cuba be successful again.

CHIEF

[Nicole44 22056]

1 minute ago, CHIEF said:

Another thing that could help stabilize the country, if a successful revolution occurs, is a big influx of Cubans from Miami moving back home. It seems they would be very instrumental in helping establish a republic since most of the Cuban population probably has no idea of how to install a representative form of government. Many of them, I'm sure still love their homeland, and dreamed of the day they could return and help Cuba be successful again.

CHIEF

That would be awesome. I see someone reported my quote about socialism/communism. I guess if people are for that they should move to a place where it exists. Stop insisting we become one of those places. 

[troph 24781]

none of that happens in a day, or a year.  it would be multi-year progression.  the issues I raise start right now as the country is vulnerable to outside influence and even moreso if the US is taking a non-interventionist approach.  So what is the US position on how to blockade eastern hemisphere actors?  Will the CIA push this over the edge if it looks like they can get away with it as a part of the rebellion?

Then if an overthrow is successful, what about the rush to influence Cuba? we will not be alone in the grab-bag for Cuba strategic importance and economic opportunity.  this idea that from day 1 we are reaping the rewards of peaceful, democratic economic prosperity is no where close to what will happen.  If not another dictator (which is absolutely on the list of possibilities), there won't be a government.  someone has to step in.  That means at least a year before there is even a single election.  folks aren't able to eat or access any level of healthcare, we are years from a stable democracy there.

And what do we do to prevent another dictator, one that aligns with China?  Back to pushing this over the edge and propping up a de facto US alligned interim leader... that's what we usually try to do.  is that what we do here?  if we do, it needs to come with so many billions of dollars China's head swivels and not an infrastructure week but an infrastructure decade to ensure success.

I actually could see this go even farther, putting them on the US dollar as the primary currency, I could see a tax treaty that's the most aggressive ever.  Tons of stuff, but none of that is quick or easy.

Edited July 12, 2021 by troph

[workswithseed 2087]

24 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Haven’t seen this video yet. El Presidente is pissed. 

 

They probably need f15s and nukes.

[Nicole44 22056]

32 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Haven’t seen this video yet. El Presidente is pissed. 

 

What an asshole. Hope he dies soon. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Nicole44

[CHIEF 5075]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

none of that happens in a day, or a year.  it would be multi-year progression.  the issues I raise start right now as the country is vulnerable to outside influence and even moreso if the US is taking a non-interventionist approach.  So what is the US position on how to blockade eastern hemisphere actors?  Will the CIA push this over the edge if it looks like they can get away with it as a part of the rebellion.

Then if an overthrow is successful, what about the rush to influence Cuba? we will not be alone in the bag-grab for Cuba strategic importance and economic opportunity.  this idea that from day 1 we are reaping the rewards of peaceful, democratic economic prosperity is no where close to what will happen.  If not another dictator, there won't be a government.  someone has to step in.  That means at least a year before there is even a single election.  folks aren't able to eat or access any level of healthcare, we are years from a stable democracy there.

The US better be prepared with humanitarian aid, and political advisors. With the largest population of Cubans, outside of Cuba, we should be poised to have the largest sphere of influence, mainly through family connections. One uncertainty, is how much of the Cuban population is still bought in on the current regime? With half of Havana filled with gutted buildings, starving children, and long ration lines, you would think there wouldn't be much of any. I would imagine, if the Cuban military personnel get to call home, the conversations aren't too rosy. They also grew up with that shit, and have to be second guessing the direction their country is headed.

CHIEF

[Rip76 4924]

16 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

That would be awesome. I see someone reported my quote about socialism/communism. I guess if people are for that they should move to a place where it exists. Stop insisting we become one of those places. 

“reported?”

what does this even mean?

[The Dog 44017]

the best things the US can do right now are:

1. keep China, Venezuela and the rest of the asshole commies out

2. get the word out in Cuba that something is up (because state media is going to squash this and try to keep it quiet as much as possible)

if this thing has legs then that will help things snowball.

[Nicole44 22056]

Just now, Rip76 said:

“reported?”

what does this even mean?

Well my post was deleted so I am ass-uming it was reported by our well meaning socialism lovers 

[The Dog 44017]

5 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

The US better be prepared with humanitarian aid, and political advisors. With the largest population of Cubans, outside of Cuba, we should be poised to have the largest sphere of influence, mainly through family connections. One uncertainty, is how much of the Cuban population is still bought in on the current regime? With half of Havana filled with gutted buildings, starving children, and long ration lines, you would think there wouldn't be much of any. I would imagine, if the Cuban military personnel get to call home, the conversations aren't too rosy. They also grew up with that shit, and have to be second guessing the direction their country is headed.

CHIEF

The US has been waiting decades for this regime to fall. If it happens the air and sea traffic from Miami to Havana will make the Berlin Airlift look like a mail drop.

[InkaUtexas 25853]

We should make Cuba the envy of the world with our aid package. 

[atomheartbevo 89618]

1 hour ago, Cajun said:

I hope it's nice and hot down there right now.

I still see plenty of houses in Austin being painted a really dark grey, with some parts even black, and can't fathom it.

[troph 24781]

25 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

The US better be prepared with humanitarian aid, and political advisors. With the largest population of Cubans, outside of Cuba, we should be poised to have the largest sphere of influence, mainly through family connections. One uncertainty, is how much of the Cuban population is still bought in on the current regime? With half of Havana filled with gutted buildings, starving children, and long ration lines, you would think there wouldn't be much of any. I would imagine, if the Cuban military personnel get to call home, the conversations aren't too rosy. They also grew up with that shit, and have to be second guessing the direction their country is headed.

CHIEF

ok now we are talking the same language.  this will very much be a nation building exercise.  we better be ready, especially if the CIA decides to be trigger happy.

Edited July 12, 2021 by troph

[jeevsie 3733]

1 hour ago, troph said:

While brut force

That would be considered chemical warfare and would be dealt with as such.

[atomheartbevo 89618]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

They probably didn't see this brewing. It seems to have been pretty spontaneous. 

Covid may have pushed things over the edge.  They are hitting peak numbers right now, and it sounds like hospitals are operating under medieval conditions (lacking electricity depending on where they are at).

VICE has been on the phone to some folks down there.  They mentioned that some small protests started up back in December

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgx5zk/were-so-hungry-why-cubans-are-taking-to-the-streets-in-biggest-protests-for-decades

Quote

Thousands of Cubans took to the streets this weekend in 90-degree heat to protest the country’s communist regime in a shocking display of public rage not seen since 1994. Though discontentment with the government has simmered since the beginning of the pandemic, recent food and medicine shortages, coupled with the newest surge in COVID-19 infections, prompted the latest protests, a rare sight on the communist island. 

Quote

“They’re cutting off the electricity in poor areas for almost 12 hours a day. There are places where the lights haven’t been on for three days. We’re exhausted,” a supporter in Centro Habana told VICE World News by phone. 

Quote

Once the surge in COVID cases became a public health emergency, Cubans began sharing the hashtag SOSCuba on Facebook, Whatsapp, and Instagram, a message of solidarity that morphed into the largest protest movement in decades. Yomil, a popular Cuban rapper, was one of the first public figures to urge followers to take to the streets. “We were so hungry, we ate our fear,” he wrote on Twitter. Yomil was one of dozens arrested during the protests, but was released several hours later. 

Quote

Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel responded to the protests by telling his supporters to fight the demonstrators. “The order for combat has been given- to the streets revolutionaries!” he said. Eventually, Diaz-Canel visited one of the protests just outside Havana, ringed by security personnel. Protesters screamed “down with the dictatorship!” and Diaz-Canel said, “In Cuba? What dictatorship?”

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89618]

From the VICE article

Quote

In Camagüey, police beat two adolescents with batons while a crowd watched in horror. However, in another video taken in Cárdenas, a police officer does not lift a finger in opposition as protesters flip his car upside down and the windshield crunches. In Santiago de Cuba, protesters documented several police officers giving in to the current of the marchers, grins on their faces.

https://www.cibercuba.com/noticias/2021-07-12-u185759-e185759-s27061-cubanos-vuelcan-patrullas-carros-partido-comunista

NSFW

Spoiler

 

[atomheartbevo 89618]

This channel seems to have a lot of videos out of Cuba.

https://www.youtube.com/c/NoticiasCubanet/videos

 

[Armybrat 40815]

59 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

It is rare they get executed. Most just leave at the last minute. I say offer the regime some condo's in Berkeley and a quiet exit. 

Fify

[troph 24781]

8 minutes ago, jeevsie said:

That would be considered chemical warfare and would be dealt with as such.

I was actually thinking of victory and this...  fucking silent "e" ain't no body got time for that.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by troph

[Armybrat 40815]

47 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Another thing that could help stabilize the country, if a successful revolution occurs, is a big influx of Cubans from Miami moving back home. It seems they would be very instrumental in helping establish a republic since most of the Cuban population probably has no idea of how to install a representative form of government. Many of them, I'm sure still love their homeland, and dreamed of the day they could return and help Cuba be successful again.

CHIEF

Send them Ted Cruz? 🤣

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, troph said:

questions about what can the US do and China has assets in Latin America and brutality on the streets brings up questions about prior policies/doctrines.  Monroe Doctrine and its various intepretations, American hegemony, unilateralism, even the response to the communist revolution and the like.  While brut force and covert assassination attempts, and proxy wars might not be the right tactic, the peace and harmony from a US perspective in the western hemisphere has been a critical component to US stability over the years and there is no doubt in my mind that keeping others out has been a huge part of that.  I get that peace and harmony has involved civil wars, unrest, etc. but for the most part it's been contained and occurred with out foreign actors other than the US taking an influential role (again for the most part). 

I think having an unstable government 90 miles away is something we can't allow. I certainly don't think the US can intervene heavy handedly but we damn sure need to keep others out and more than anything the US needs stability.  While giving Latin American countries a right to self govern is important and retracting from an implementation of policies that resulted in heavy meddling is good, we cannot make the mistake of creating a vacuum of power.  Several countries are lost/never found (hati, Venezuela) but letting that grow and inviting an opportunity for China is not good on any level.

If the rebels are successful, we have to go in with the biggest aid package the world has ever seen and make sure Cuba is a free, stable and prosperous Cuba and one of our most strategic and important trading partners along with Mexico and Candada.

If only for the cigars, and rum.

[atomheartbevo 89618]

1 hour ago, troph said:

If the rebels are successful, we have to go in with the biggest aid package the world has ever seen and make sure Cuba is a free, stable and prosperous Cuba and one of our most strategic and important trading partners along with Mexico and Candada.

I honestly don't think that will be a problem.  There's been a bunch of official US State Department folks tweeting out their support, etc., and they aren't doing that without permission from the higher-ups.

As mentioned, we have a huge advantage over places like China - we have the largest group of Cuban ex-pats that are 90 miles away, and that take to our streets every time shit happens in Cuba.  Venezuela ain't doing shit - they are probably more worried with keeping their lights on and people fed, to stay in power themselves.

And American companies will be all over that.  Sorry Las Vegas and Puerto Rico - Cuba is practically on our doorstep and much better looking than Vegas.

Places like Sandals are drooling over this.

Edited July 12, 2021 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89618]

48 minutes ago, troph said:

I actually could see this go even farther, putting them on the US dollar as the primary currency, 

A bunch of articles have already mentioned that a lot of goods in Cuba are already paid for in US dollars (probably from relatives in the US).

[David Dennison 18837]

This seems like a good opportunity to completely lift the embargo.

[Dewey 3286]

No food, gas, water, medicine  and now internet.  How did they not turn the internet off sooner? I thought commie rule number one was to suppress the people's voice. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21867]

I think the best thing the US could do right now is something to give them internet.  Can we flood the country with a wireless signal?

[troph 24781]

5 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I think the best thing the US could do right now is something to give them internet.  Can we flood the country with a wireless signal?

partially naked (straight) women in red lingerie (acting like lesbians) for EVERYONE!!!!

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

Cuba, Iraq, and Mexico are the most underachieving economies in the world.  We should tell them right now that if they overthrow the government, then we'd money whip them like Twelve Years a Slave or some shit.  Not just government money, either.  River of corporate money would flow in there.

Biden should promise to make them the 51st state.

[South Austin 52431]

8 minutes ago, troph said:

partially naked (straight) women in red lingerie (acting like lesbians) for EVERYONE!!!!

What's this "partially" bullshit?

[Red Six 131]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

I don't think that would be an issue. A democratic Cuba would immediately bring in Marriott and Hilton and smaller hoteliers. US tourism dollars would flow. OTOH, Puerto Rico has continuously had issues and tourism hasn't helped as much as it should. I think overpopulation of some of the large Caribbean islands plays a role as the natural resources  and tourism dollars doesn't bring in the cash flow needed to support the population.

Marriott had operations in Cuba until Trump shut them down last year. Iberostar pretty much owns Varadero Beach. The rest of the world -- especially Canadians, Western Europeans, and Latin Americans -- has been traveling to Cuba for cheap all-inclusive vacations for years. It's basically on the level of Cancun or Punta Cana or Jamaica for them as a value destination for getting drunk and sunburned. Americans suddenly being able to visit freely won't change their economy that much when there is so much inertia toward taking vacations other locations in the Caribbean.

[David Dennison 18837]

18 minutes ago, Dewey said:

No food, gas, water, medicine  and now internet.  How did they not turn the internet off sooner? I thought commie rule number one was to suppress the people's voice. 

All of this is a mere 90 miles away. 

We should flood the country with goods and services at a time of state weakness.

[South Austin 52431]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

All of this is a mere 90 miles away. 

We should flood the country with goods and services at a time of state weakness.

I’m sure the state will make sure those American goods and services get to the folks that need them.