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Things going on in Cuba...

Rip76

By Rip76
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Rip76
Rip76
FORTY NINE TO ZERO
FORTY NINE TO ZERO

For those that dont know, things have gotten BAD there.   Getting close to the “dark days” post soviet union collapse.    You get like one bag of rice a month if you are lucky.   In the past th

atomheartbevo
atomheartbevo

Does he have any eligibility left?  I think we have some money in the wreath fund that we could use to bring him here and have him run our grid.

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FORTY NINE TO ZERO

FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652

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Keep in mind that the last thing the locals want/need are expats who fled in the 60s coming back to rule them.  Sure the help will be valued, but there is still some mistrust/animosity between the two groups. The people who fled look down upon those who stayed and those who stayed few betrayed by those who left. 
 

im doing a bad job in explaining this, just know it’s all very complicated. 
 

cuba, unlike most 3rd world countries has one major thing going for it.   The population is HIGHLY educated with engineers, doctors, etc.  they can do a lot of this own their own. Just need resources and freedom. 
 

My greatest fear is that multinationals just come in and buy everything up from state actors / oligarchs and the locals are left out. 
 

Last thing we need is a wrecking ball to come out and old cities go down for modern holiday inns and Disney world. 
 

It’s a both very exciting and worrying time.  

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Sandman

Sandman 3403

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

We should make Cuba the envy of the world with our aid package. 

Honest question: If this would work, why hasn't the US government dropped this level of aid on Detroit or West Virginia? Do we think the local authorities are any less corrupt than foreign ones?

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FORTY NINE TO ZERO

FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652

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34 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

A bunch of articles have already mentioned that a lot of goods in Cuba are already paid for in US dollars (probably from relatives in the US).

Until recently they had two currencies. The local peso and the CUC, which is pegged to the US dollar.   The peso was worthless. Everyone used the CUC for nongovernmental transactions. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18837

Posted
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1 minute ago, Xian said:

Keep in mind that the last thing the locals want/need are expats who fled in the 60s coming back to rule them.  Sure the help will be valued, but there is still some mistrust/animosity between the two groups. The people who fled look down upon those who stayed and those who stayed few betrayed by those who left. 
 

im doing a bad job in explaining this, just know it’s all very complicated. 
 

cuba, unlike most 3rd world countries has one major thing going for it.   The population is HIGHLY educated with engineers, doctors, etc.  they can do a lot of this own their own. Just need resources and freedom. 
 

My greatest fear is that multinationals just come in and buy everything up from state actors / oligarchs and the locals are left out. 
 

Last thing we need is a wrecking ball to come out and old cities go down for modern holiday inns and Disney world. 
 

It’s a both very exciting and worrying time.  

Not to nit pick, but Cuba was never a third world country. It was aligned with the Soviet Union.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

Another thing that could help stabilize the country, if a successful revolution occurs, is a big influx of Cubans from Miami moving back home. It seems they would be very instrumental in helping establish a republic since most of the Cuban population probably has no idea of how to install a representative form of government. Many of them, I'm sure still love their homeland, and dreamed of the day they could return and help Cuba be successful again.

CHIEF

Counterpoint: They are going to want all the shit Castro took from them back, and some of those emigres are out for blood.

Cuba would need a Truth and Reconciliation commission pronto. 

Should there be an exodus back to Cuba, it would also possibly tip Florida's electoral voting. (No CR)

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FORTY NINE TO ZERO

FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652

Posted
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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Not to nit pick, but Cuba was never a third world country. It was aligned with the Soviet Union.

Actually a good point and that plays a huge part in this. Things went to shit when the USSR collapsed.  They never had freedom, but they at least had enough food / supplies to have a good life and educate the population. 
 

it rebounded somewhat with VZ oil, now that is gone.  

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FORTY NINE TO ZERO

FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652

Posted
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2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Counterpoint: They are going to want all the shit Castro took from them back, and some of those emigres are out for blood.

Cuba would need a Truth and Reconciliation commission pronto. 

Should there be an exodus back to Cuba, it would also possibly tip Florida's electoral voting. (No CR)

I doubt few move back. Most just want to try to claim their old property as a vacation home.   
 

Even if the best outcome happens, it’s going to be a shit show for awhile. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29644

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I'm slowly getting up to speed and appreciate some of the more thoughtful commentary above, especially as it relates to 1) if/what/how our government should respond and 2) the relationship of the exiled community with those still in the country (and their former property).

After catching up here and reading a few articles on the situation, I do have a question about what exactly the protestors want. I know the hashtag #libertad is trending, but are they really wanting to overthrow the regime? Or do they just want more liberties under the existing one with major reform?

I realize this is coming to a head right now due to a confluence of factors, but I think we need to make sure we know what they want before we blunder into the situation. The regime's repression hasn't ever allowed for an opposition to form, so I'm hoping our analysts and intelligence assets are working to figure if there's a viable figure/group to back.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2086

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41 minutes ago, Xian said:

I doubt few move back. Most just want to try to claim their old property as a vacation home.   
 

Even if the best outcome happens, it’s going to be a shit show for awhile. 

So I get that there is probably a Communist group, and a Libertarian/ Dem-Repub group. What other groups might there be there in Cuba?

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm slowly getting up to speed and appreciate some of the more thoughtful commentary above, especially as it relates to 1) if/what/how our government should respond and 2) the relationship of the exiled community with those still in the country (and their former property).

After catching up here and reading a few articles on the situation, I do have a question about what exactly the protestors want. I know the hashtag #libertad is trending, but are they really wanting to overthrow the regime? Or do they just want more liberties under the existing one with major reform?

I realize this is coming to a head right now due to a confluence of factors, but I think we need to make sure we know what they want before we blunder into the situation. The regime's repression hasn't ever allowed for an opposition to form, so I'm hoping our analysts and intelligence assets are working to figure if there's a viable figure/group to back.

Anything that gets them COVID vaccines, medical help, generators, and enough food to keep from starving. Wanting freedom and liberty sounds like an appeal to the US. We are the only country close enough to have the logistics to pull it off. But the only way the US intervenes is if the regime is overthrown and the embargo is lifted immediately by Executive Order. Time will be of the essence, this rebellion can't last for 30 days. Protestors don't have the food, energy, or bodies to last that long.

CHIEF

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El Diablo

El Diablo 4232

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Posted

Redistributing the wealth and machinery of wealth rarely happens without blood being spilled. I can't imagine such an endeavor NOT sparking much corruption and fighting between the winners and losers of the redistribution. 

So many urgent needs. First and foremost should be food and medicine but after that? No clue how best to proceed. 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15286

Posted
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57 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Honest question: If this would work, why hasn't the US government dropped this level of aid on Detroit or West Virginia? Do we think the local authorities are any less corrupt than foreign ones?

Because throwing massive amounts of money at problems has a vast history of failure and waste.  Recent example:  See Haiti (not what was embezzled, but the +/-$13B that was accounted for, although not all has been released yet).

Anyway, it's a mess and most rarely funnels down to those that need it the most.  

Haiti & the earthquake aid

Quote

The American companies relied on a maze of subcontractors, increasing overhead and obscuring whether the money was being spent wisely, critics said.

"It was really hard getting our hands around this," said Rep. Barbara Lee, D-Calif.,

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I think the best thing the US could do right now is something to give them internet.  Can we flood the country with a wireless signal?

They have some kind of internet access - shit is getting out.  Could be hidden satellite phones that were smuggled in, could be friendlies using the internet of some obscure government offices or whatever.  

While I'm sure they tried to cut it to the citizens, I'd bet they kept some communications up to keep the outlying government/police/military linked to the central Capitol, because if outlying areas started being cut off/isolated that would not bode well for the folks running the show.

From what it sounds like, these protests are happening all over the place, which is what is making this hard for the government to snuff out.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

Posted
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33 minutes ago, bolverk said:

After catching up here and reading a few articles on the situation, I do have a question about what exactly the protestors want. I know the hashtag #libertad is trending, but are they really wanting to overthrow the regime? Or do they just want more liberties under the existing one with major reform?

Poor areas are getting at most 12 hours of power a day.  That shit gets old really fast if they had reliable power in the past.  Food is a problem, hospitals are completely overwhelmed, covid is peaking there.

Meanwhile, 90 miles away, anybody who needs a vaccine or a hospital can get it.

They sound like they are done.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

Posted
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6 minutes ago, jeevsie said:

Jimbo-Fisher-AM.jpg

I really want to get some buddies to go to an aggy game, somehow get some seats somewhere near the aggy bench, and dress up as the Florida State men's tennis team.

Not sure if we'd get our asses beat or if aggy fans would be confused and we'd have to explain things.

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5075

Posted
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18 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Redistributing the wealth and machinery of wealth rarely happens without blood being spilled. I can't imagine such an endeavor NOT sparking much corruption and fighting between the winners and losers of the redistribution. 

So many urgent needs. First and foremost should be food and medicine but after that? No clue how best to proceed. 

 

19 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Redistributing the wealth and machinery of wealth rarely happens without blood being spilled. I can't imagine such an endeavor NOT sparking much corruption and fighting between the winners and losers of the redistribution. 

So many urgent needs. First and foremost should be food and medicine but after that? No clue how best to proceed. 

About the only thing they have going for them is an educated populous, they have no money on which to live. For sure, it can't go to straight Capitalism. You could start with giving everyone Deeds of Ownership to their farmland and dwellings. Set up a transparent commission to determine far market value of some of the beachfront property to sell off to foreign investors and divide that between all citizens. Let farmers keep what they can raise and barter the access off for cell phones, mopeds, TVs, etc. I don't think you will see huge salary discrepancies, like we have, here in the States. Doctors and engineers probably won't make twice as much as farmers. Having a roof over your head, the lights on, and food in your belly should be your concern, not who gets the wealth, or how its generated. Those are 1st World issues, they won't be thinking that far ahead.

CHIEF

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

 

About the only thing they have going for them is an educated populous, they have no money on which to live. For sure, it can't go to straight Capitalism. You could start with giving everyone Deeds of Ownership to their farmland and dwellings. Set up a transparent commission to determine far market value of some of the beachfront property to sell off to foreign investors and divide that between all citizens. Let farmers keep what they can raise and barter the access off for cell phones, mopeds, TVs, etc. I don't think you will see huge salary discrepancies, like we have, here in the States. Doctors and engineers probably won't make twice as much as farmers. Having a roof over your head, the lights on, and food in your belly should be your concern, not who gets the wealth, or how its generated. Those are 1st World issues, they won't be thinking that far ahead.

CHIEF

What a huge change to make. It has to be scary for them, but when things get bad enough people will be willing the roll the dice. 
 

This was pre-Covid

 

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Doc Reeves

Doc Reeves 6434

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Posted
3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

What a huge change to make. It has to be scary for them, but when things get bad enough people will be willing the roll the dice. 
 

This was pre-Covid

 


 

Yeah, but there’s no “fat people” thread on any Cuban website anywhere 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

 

About the only thing they have going for them is an educated populous, they have no money on which to live. For sure, it can't go to straight Capitalism. You could start with giving everyone Deeds of Ownership to their farmland and dwellings. Set up a transparent commission to determine far market value of some of the beachfront property to sell off to foreign investors and divide that between all citizens. Let farmers keep what they can raise and barter the access off for cell phones, mopeds, TVs, etc. I don't think you will see huge salary discrepancies, like we have, here in the States. Doctors and engineers probably won't make twice as much as farmers. Having a roof over your head, the lights on, and food in your belly should be your concern, not who gets the wealth, or how its generated. Those are 1st World issues, they won't be thinking that far ahead.

CHIEF

They have or had a system in place where they could sell property, but it had to be to citizens only. I personally like that policy for the majority of the purchases. Obviously there are tracts of land larger than a typical home owner would have so resort corporations could come in and buy or lease property.

Cuba could be a gem of the Caribbean easily with a population that's so well educated, and hungry for those western consumer goods.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2086

Posted
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12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

They have or had a system in place where they could sell property, but it had to be to citizens only. I personally like that policy for the majority of the purchases. Obviously there are tracts of land larger than a typical home owner would have so resort corporations could come in and buy or lease property.

Cuba could be a gem of the Caribbean easily with a population that's so well educated, and hungry for those western consumer goods.

I bet they would be very okay to go from 50s Chevys to 90 Toyotas.

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5510

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

From the VICE article

https://www.cibercuba.com/noticias/2021-07-12-u185759-e185759-s27061-cubanos-vuelcan-patrullas-carros-partido-comunista

NSFW

  Hide contents

 

 

at 1:08 or so in that video is that chick bottomless or wearing skin colored leggings?

Hopefully Yordan Alvarez and Yuli Gurriel make it back from the all star break. 

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'stache

'stache 21789

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18 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

LOL, this is 'murica bro, ain't no coming together on anything. Talking heads are already conflating communism with socialism and going full CR with it, we ain't gonna ever get on the same page on anything dude.  

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Rip76

Rip76 4924

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9 minutes ago, 'stache said:

LOL, this is 'murica bro, ain't no coming together on anything. Talking heads are already conflating communism with socialism and going full CR with it, we ain't gonna ever get on the same page on anything dude.  

https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-communism-and-socialism-195448

The Differences Between Communism and Socialism

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Helobious

Helobious 9459

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Posted
3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Cuba, Iraq, and Mexico are the most underachieving economies in the world.  We should tell them right now that if they overthrow the government, then we'd money whip them like Twelve Years a Slave or some shit.  Not just government money, either.  River of corporate money would flow in there.

Biden should promise to make them the 51st state.

Russia? They’ve got a comparable economy to Mexico with 1000x the land & resources.

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