Things going on in Cuba...

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

41 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Turns out beating unarmed protestors in the streets and then imprisoning them for 20-30 years with limited power, internet, medicine, food is incredibly effective for maintaining power. 

Yeah.... like that's happening. Those ingrates are living in a panacea, just ask BT.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[bad_teammate 13195]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Those ingrates are living in a panacea, just ask BT.

I've said the exact opposite. You're just trolling and trying to start a fight online.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I've said the exact opposite. You're just trolling and trying to start a fight online.

Seriously, you've tried to come here, and plead ignorance about what the people of Cuba want. You seem to be operating under the thought process that they love their gov't, and was more privation, rationing, no toilet paper, no car parts, food, no free speech, or jobs that pay more thug $3 a month, and rules created to stop you every time you find a way to make $5.00 a month.

Now why would anyone not want that lifestyle. I seriously suggest you go live that, and then tell me you want more of the same. 

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Now why would anyone not want that lifestyle. 

I don't think they want that lifestyle. I think they want a lot more economic prosperity and freedom, and I hope they get it.

[Not a cat 5657]

If I move to Cuba where the internet is shut down, does that mean I can't see all you fuckers quoting bad teammate?

[bolverk 29672]

Since not a whole lot of news is coming out of Cuba proper, here are a few goings-on elsewhere during the last 24 hours:

Cuba claims its embassy in Paris was attacked when three Molotov cocktails were hurled at it, but diplomats had put out the fire before French firefighters/police arrived. Cuba blames the US.

Foreign ministers of the US and 20 other countries condemned mass arrests in Cuba and called for full restoration of Internet access.

A group of 19 GOP lawmakers wrote to Biden requesting a meeting to discuss how Congress and the administration “can work together to bring an end to the oppressive communist regime in Havana and liberate the Cuban people.”

Protests continue across Florida as well as one in DC that stopped at the White House.

Mexico is sending diesel and food to Cuba, as Lopez Obrador kinda sorta calls for end of US embargo.

[NorthLoop 14203]

12 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

Cuba claims its embassy in Paris was attacked when three Molotov cocktails were hurled at it, but diplomats had put out the fire before French firefighters/police arrived. Cuba blames the US.

 

So Cuba is aggy? 

[bolverk 29672]

Some opinions offered by Cubans on what they're seeking, according to this report from Arizona(?!?). I don't know if this is an accurate reflection of what most Cubans are thinking, or even if it encompasses the full spectrum of views, but it's nice to see an article that actually includes Cuban voices.

Cuban protests: Some want military intervention; others on the island seek change, 'not war'

Spoiler

“¡Libertad!”

Freedom. This is what Cubans have been demanding during almost two weeks of demonstrations on U.S. streets. The protests do not bring to light a new problem, but this time, Cubans say, the people expect a greater change than those that have been seen on the island since the beginning of the Castro regime.

The majority of the Cuban community in the United States has asked the Biden administration to carry out military intervention in Cuba in order to overthrow the regime, but other Cubans and dissident movements believe that alternative solutions should be considered.

And the fact is that Cuba, a relatively small island in the Caribbean, has not gone through many significant changes in almost seven decades. Cubans say that the island has remained in a relatively static state in which the shortage of resources comes and goes and the repression of freedom has been constant.

Ronal Delgado, who has organized different protests in Arizona, affirms that one of the objectives of the protests is for the U.S. government to examine the need for immediate intervention.

"We are not asking that the embargo be lifted," Delgado said. "We are asking for a humanitarian intervention or a military intervention in Cuba in order to remove the dictators from the island."

And something that the vast majority of the Cuban people agree on is that lifting the embargo is not a sufficient solution to the island's problems.

In previous years, the administration of then-President Obama focused its efforts on lifting the embargo — which had been in place for more than 54 years — and on authorizing sending remittances or economic aid to the island.

But although Cuba enjoyed slight economic growth and supply of resources during this period, the island's boom was limited because although the United States relaxed its policies toward Cuba, the Raúl Castro regime did not do the same in response.

"The Obama administration tried to make some changes, but no condition was imposed that the repressive methods (on the island) be relieved," said Eliana Rivero, a professor emeritus at the University of Arizona and a Cuban by birth.

Many claim that Obama's policies also benefited the regime since the Cuban government had the power to extract a percentage of remittances sent from abroad, depriving the population of resources that by right, they say, belonged to them.

During his presidential campaign, Biden announced that his administration would adopt a policy similar to that of Obama after the Trump administration had once again imposed an economic blockade, paralyzing the small growth that the island had.

But on Thursday, prompted by the demonstrations of the Cuban-American community, President Biden announced that he would carry out sanctions against the repressive actions of the Cuban government, shifting from his initial campaign promise. Even so, Biden's administration has maintained its decision not to carry out a forced invasion of the island and has said that he is in the process of reviewing policies to respond to the situation in Cuba.

Some Cubans consider that the people on the island should also review their alternatives, because among the 11 million inhabitants on the island — 2 million Cubans are abroad — there are different points of view regarding how to proceed following the protests.

A peaceful, nonmilitary solution
Betty Maura, who resides in the province of Matanzas, Cuba, said that she would like to see real solutions to Cuba's problems, but that she would like them to be peaceful solutions.

“Yes, I would like to see some changes, but not a war. No more violence,” Maura told The Arizona Republic.

And although for Maura July 11 — when protests initiated on the island — began as "any ordinary Sunday," that same afternoon her husband, Leovel Frank Canga, was detained by the National Revolutionary Police (PNR) while participating peacefully in the demonstrations in Matanzas, says Maura.

Within a few days, she received the news that she is expecting a child along with her husband. Canga continues to be detained and is awaiting prosecution on charges of public disorder, epidemic spread and instigation to commit a crime, Maura said.

Like Maura, there are many Cubans who think that military intervention can lead to violent results in which innocent people are affected. But negotiations with the government, many say, is a difficult goal to achieve as authorities have repeatedly refused to listen to the voice of the people and have adopted repressive measures, including the arrest of peaceful protesters like Canga.

It is estimated that so far the number of disappeared has exceeded 100 and the number of detainees has exceeded 700, according to the Cuban Observatory of Human Rights. However, due to restricted internet access, many Cubans argue that the number could be higher.

Yanelys Núñez, spokesperson for the San Isidro Movement (MSI), of which some members are also currently in the hands of the police or missing, said that establishing a dialogue among Cuban citizens is key so that the voices of all sectors of the community are heard before starting to develop strategies.

"A military intervention can be discussed, but there are many Cubans on the island who do not want that," Núñez said.

Since before the protests began, dissident movements like MSI have promoted national dialogue as a way to collectively propose solutions.

"The San Isidro Movement manifests the urgent need to call for a National Dialogue of all Cubans, whether they live inside or outside of Cuba and who aspire to build a country that represents a safe home," the movement announced in a statement published on its website in March.

Sussanah Rodrígez Drissi, a Cuban-born writing programs professor at UCLA and author of the novel "Until We're Fish," which is inspired by the impact of the regime in Bauta, Cuba, said that the purpose of the protests, for now, is nothing more than to give visibility to the situation and amplify the voices of Cubans on the island to make known the changes they seek.

"Our main concern is to help the Cuban people in their fight for their freedom," Rodríguez said. "Once we know what Cubans want on the island, then from there (we can) start with a plan, a strategy."

'Something like this has never been seen'
The island had not gone through a similar crisis in almost 30 years. The situation in the country has been aggravated in recent years since the reiteration of the economic blockade, but the lack of food in millions of Cuban households is added today to the lack of care in hospitals saturated with patients infected with the coronavirus.

During the so-called Special Period in Time of Peace in the '90s, which was fueled by the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the country suffered from a food shortage similar to today’s, plunging the island into a deep humanitarian crisis.

That scenario 30 years ago led a hungry people to take to the streets of Havana, proclaiming the same thing that Cubans demand today: "freedom!" This scene of Aug. 5, 1994, is known today as the Maleconazo.

But that same afternoon the government repressed the demonstrations and the situation resulted in the displacement of thousands of Cubans to the United States.

This time the picture has been a little different. The demonstrations did not only remain in Havana, nor did they last just one afternoon.

In a matter of minutes, the protests that began in San Antonio de los Baños spread through social networks until they reached the other end of the island in Guantánamo, passing through Cienfuegos, Camagüey, Bauta, Santiago de Cuba, among other cities.

But the scope of those images and videos did not stop at Cuban borders. That same day, protests were also seen in Miami, New York, Washington D.C, Houston, Phoenix and other cities around the country.

That spontaneity and the magnitude of the protests took the world by surprise, and continue to do so.

“Something like this has never been seen,” Rodríguez said. "Cuba does not have a culture of protest, because in Cuba that is a crime."

But the people hope that the result of these protests will finally be freedom for the island.

"People would like a system in which there is freedom of expression and freedom of supply," Rivero said. "That is what people want."

 

[bolverk 29672]

Final post - an interview yesterday with a Cuban-American lawmaker from Florida with a few interesting thoughts:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-07-26/first-time-children-revolution-are-fighting-revolution-says-former-us-rep

Regarding the importance of July 26: 

This is a day when Fidel Castro and the founders of the revolution — I think there are only five of them left — which were all summarily removed from political power about two months ago. But they would all gather and Fidel would give a rip-roaring three-hour speech, which would end with "patria o muerte," the "motherland/fatherland or death." That no longer is happening today. Today, the president of Cuba is doing volunteer work with 100 schoolchildren, planting lettuce and other food that people eat on a daily basis in small gardens throughout the country.

Regarding the state of the protests:

Well, you know, the idea to put a fire out is very easy because of Cuba being an island, right? There's no border that you can run to, and it is a very controlled society. But, we are seeing, for the first time, a government that is unable to project its complete and total control of things on the ground. Today was celebrated by these meager rations that were announced throughout the country, which were bagged rice bags, a little bit of sugar and some cooking oil. That was, in essence, the gift that they got today for the revolution.

Regarding the thoughts of Cuban officials on what's going on:

What is stark here, for the first time, is that these are children of the revolution that are fighting the revolution. These are not the grandchildren of Fulgencio Batista. These are not the remnants of the propertied class or the the Cuban gulags, as it were. This is the children of the revolution. And you notice that both in Cuba, those who are fighting are under 30, and you notice also abroad in the demonstrations that were typically marked by people like my parents or my grandparents standing and fighting for the thought of a free Cuba or a democratic Cuba or a different view, that is the people who are ... taking the streets in the United States or in Cuba. It's the youth. It's the people that were brought up in the system.
 

[Armybrat 40845]

Interesting stuff here.... several Cuban generals died in the past 9 days. Retired & active, old & not so old...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/5-cuban-generals-have-mysteriously-died-is-it-linked-to-countrys-spike-in-covid-19/ar-AAMDAQW

[wildcat09 29354]

Onboard is having a weird little meltdown in this thread.

[Bevo 13577]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Interesting stuff here.... several Cuban generals died in the past 9 days. Retired & active, old & not so old...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/5-cuban-generals-have-mysteriously-died-is-it-linked-to-countrys-spike-in-covid-19/ar-AAMDAQW

If this list is accurate (https://cubanstudiesinstitute.us/economy/the-military-elite-of-cuba/ ), Cuba may not have many generals left.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Bevo

[InkaUtexas 25940]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

If this list is accurate (https://cubanstudiesinstitute.us/economy/the-military-elite-of-cuba/ ), Cuba may not have many generals left.

Just promote up Colonels. Solved.

[bad_teammate 13195]

basic communist governance is just pinning medals on people and calling them "general"

COME ON CUBA!!!!!

[DDD Dad 14339]

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/one-month-after-cuba-protests-hundreds-remain-behind-bars-2021-08-12/

[lmao 178]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/one-month-after-cuba-protests-hundreds-remain-behind-bars-2021-08-12/

Whoever pointed out this would be a blip in the 24hr new cycle was right. We've moved on. 

[Saint Austin 745]

The past month for U.S. foreign policy has been a massive nut kick.

[workswithseed 2106]

3 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

The past month for U.S. foreign policy has been a massive nut kick.

I would add Hong Kong into that myself.

[Saint Austin 745]

44 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I would add Hong Kong into that myself.

Yep. Taiwan, you're on deck!

[phdhorn 6224]

27 minutes ago, Saint Austin said:

Yep. Taiwan, you're on deck!

More than you'd think. China building a military ba... er, "airport" on the island as close as it can get to Taiwan:

https://thefederalist.com/2021/08/18/china-plans-to-build-463-million-airport-on-closest-island-to-taiwan/

Edited August 18, 2021 by phdhorn

[workswithseed 2106]

We should probably make a Taiwan thread.

[RPM 26321]

23 hours ago, workswithseed said:

We should probably make a Taiwan thread.

 

[XYZ 2154]

On 8/18/2021 at 3:28 PM, workswithseed said:

We should probably make a Taiwan thread.

No need. China will invade Taiwan and nobody will do a goddamn thing about it. The end.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

11 hours ago, XYZ said:

No need. China will invade Taiwan and nobody will do a goddamn thing about it. The end.

Strongly worded letter.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

5 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Strongly worded letter.

We would have to apologize to China if we did that

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

We would have to apologize to China if we did that

[F250 28775]

15 hours ago, XYZ said:

No need. China will invade Taiwan and nobody will do a goddamn thing about it. The end.

Your comment seems to imply that someone should intervene if China were to invade Taiwan. Do you believe it's in the best interest of the United States to go to war with China over Taiwan?

How many nuclear powers have ever squared off in actual war? I know Pakistan and India take pot shots at each other which usually makes the rest of the world nervous but I can't think of any members of club nuke actually engaging in a war.

It's usually considered a really bad idea.

 

[XYZ 2154]

I didn’t imply that somebody should intervene. Go to war with China? Nah, it would end up in a nuclear holocaust. How about we fucking stop buying things from them? Especially important things, such as every goddamn chemical precursor there is.

Fuck the Chinese Communist Party.

[InkaUtexas 25940]

11 minutes ago, XYZ said:

I didn’t imply that somebody should intervene. Go to war with China? Nah, it would end up in a nuclear holocaust. How about we fucking stop buying things from them? Especially important things, such as every goddamn chemical precursor there is.

Fuck the Chinese Communist Party.

Agree, but they control the Rare Earth Minerals that are critical to your laptop/phone/car. 

 

[InkaUtexas 25940]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

How many nuclear powers have ever squared off in actual war? I know Pakistan and India take pot shots at each other which usually makes the rest of the world nervous but I can't think of any members of club nuke actually engaging in a war.

It's usually considered a really bad idea.

 

 

Another one is the Sino-Soviet quiet war of 1969. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

Your comment seems to imply that someone should intervene if China were to invade Taiwan. Do you believe it's in the best interest of the United States to go to war with China over Taiwan?

It's certainly not in our best interests to let them move unchecked wherever they want, seize the strategic minerals they don't already control, and control the vast majority of the world's chip manufacturing so I'm pretty sure that's what we'll end up doing.

[F250 28775]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Another one is the Sino-Soviet quiet war of 1969. 

Good one. I forgot about the border skirmishes between the USSR and China.

[F250 28775]

2 hours ago, XYZ said:

I didn’t imply that somebody should intervene. Go to war with China? Nah, it would end up in a nuclear holocaust. How about we fucking stop buying things from them? Especially important things, such as every goddamn chemical precursor there is.

Fuck the Chinese Communist Party.

But it's the economic interdependence that is most likely to keep us from going to war with China. Plus from a capitalist perspective it's not the government's place to interfer with the market because we are not communists.

Globalization isn't going away.

 

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

16 hours ago, F250 said:

But it's the economic interdependence that is most likely to keep us from going to war with China. Plus from a capitalist perspective it's not the government's place to interfer with the market because we are not communists.

Globalization isn't going away.

 

To play devil's advocate, European leaders had that POV in 1913.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

My 3 year old nephew just got diagnosed with dengue fever. So i got that going for us.  
 

not fun. 

[Bevo 13577]

3 hours ago, Xian said:

My 3 year old nephew just got diagnosed with dengue fever. So i got that going for us.  
 

not fun. 

In Cuba?

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

53 minutes ago, Bevo said:

In Cuba?

Yeah. Havanna. 

[XYZ 2154]

Here’s a dengue joke, in Spanish. Whoever gets it first gets a free beer from me.

-Doctor, creo que tengo covid

-¿Cómo te llamas?

-Braian

-Es dengue

[F250 28775]

6 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

To play devil's advocate, European leaders had that POV in 1913.

What did the global supply chain look like in 1913?

 

[Armybrat 40845]

[CHIEF 5087]

This is a cool Youtube channel of an American woman that marries a Cuban National and brings him to the US on a K1 visa. His reaction to Home Depot, Costco, car dealerships, etc. is fascinating:

CHIEF

[Samson's Wig 3192]

NM

Edited August 23, 2021 by Samson's Wig

[XYZ 2154]

9 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

NM

Great update!

[F250 28775]

On 8/22/2021 at 1:25 PM, CHIEF said:

This is a cool Youtube channel of an American woman that marries a Cuban National and brings him to the US on a K1 visa. His reaction to Home Depot, Costco, car dealerships, etc. is fascinating:

CHIEF

Reminds me of an interview I read where Ana de Armas talked about being enamored with canned corn after leaving Cuba.

 

[atomheartbevo 89668]

 

Electricity and food are apparently an issue now.  People in outer provinces claim no power up to 15 hours a day.  The social medias are alive with this stuff, but it’s hard to sort out.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

[KYHorn 17058]

Don't see a thread about Havana Syndrome, so I guess this goes here. 

Scott Pelly will have a full report in 60 Minutes Sunday, but this seems pretty interesting. They don't specifically state the connection to Havana Syndrome, but they indicate there is one:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/connection-revealed-between-havana-syndrome-speeding-mustang-in-florida/#x 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

https://www.latintimes.com/cuba-sees-14-hour-long-daily-blackouts-economic-crisis-continues-deepen-558320

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

yeah it’s a shitshow there, worse than the “dark times” after the soviet union fell even. 

something is going to change soon.  hopefully peacefully. 

[Laxtonto 12080]

Combine extremely low birth rates, large scale populations shifts fleeing Cuba, poor management and no real exports and you now have a Cuba that is in essence bankrupt with no real access to credit.

Then add in the sanctions that limit Russia and their banking system and even what would be considered their safety net in the past is no longer there to proved aid.

 

The situation in Cuba could become a legitimate humanitarian catastrophe. Not enough able bodied individuals to provide the labor for large scale food cultivation plus very poor healthcare availability and an extremely old population could combine to decimate an already fragile population.