Things going on in Cuba...

[SydneyCarton 48052]

53 minutes ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

yeah it’s a shitshow there, worse than the “dark times” after the soviet union fell even. 

something is going to change soon.  hopefully peacefully. 

Shit in one hand, hope in the other. 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

OK, so what does the Surly want to see there?

[atomheartbevo 89618]

47 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

OK, so what does the Surly want to see there?

Me, in 10 years, if I’m not roaming The Villages.

[Parliament 14227]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

Combine extremely low birth rates, large scale populations shifts fleeing Cuba, poor management and no real exports and you now have a Cuba that is in essence bankrupt with no real access to credit.

Then add in the sanctions that limit Russia and their banking system and even what would be considered their safety net in the past is no longer there to proved aid.

 

The situation in Cuba could become a legitimate humanitarian catastrophe. Not enough able bodied individuals to provide the labor for large scale food cultivation plus very poor healthcare availability and an extremely old population could combine to decimate an already fragile population.

 

55 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

OK, so what does the Surly want to see there?

Seems we can go in and just recolonize.

[The Dog 44017]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

OK, so what does the Surly want to see there?

for Maduro to do something stupid (like sending overt military aid) so we can solve two problems at once. 

[crash_davis 23096]

They can sell all of their classic cars for billions.

[InkaUtexas 25855]

34 minutes ago, The Dog said:

for Maduro to do something stupid (like sending overt military aid) so we can solve two problems at once. 

We ain't invading either place. Peace stabilization? Maybe, but those don't work most of the time.

49 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Me, in 10 years, if I’m not roaming The Villages.

Why make them suffer more?

30 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

They can sell all of their classic cars for billions.

Some asshole would buy them in bulk for platanos and scrap them for eBay resale.

[ABSR 5308]

5 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

OK, so what does the Surly want to see there?

Cuba opened up to tourism with cheap booze, cigars and women.  You know, the usual.

[utee94 15797]

5 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

OK, so what does the Surly want to see there?

Surly Towers Beach Resort, Surly's Palace Hotel and Casino, Surly Sandals Family Beach Retreat, Surly's Vintage Car Emporium, and Secret Surly's Private Luxury Hacienda for Couples

[DigglerontheHoof 21168]

Sounds like it's time for Hyman Roth and the boys to reengage...

[swraith 345]

Terrible to hear about the struggles that Cubans are experiencing on the island. 

[Shaddie 1651]

4 hours ago, utee94 said:

Surly Towers Beach Resort, Surly's Palace Hotel and Casino, Surly Sandals Family Beach Retreat, Surly's Vintage Car Emporium, and Secret Surly's Private Luxury Hacienda for Couples

Really? I already spend 5 days a week working with assholes. Vacation shouldn’t suck also. 

[HornOnTheBayou 8904]

5 hours ago, ABSR said:

Cuba opened up to tourism with cheap booze, cigars and women.  You know, the usual.

You left off gambling. Casinos are integral to the plan.

[elfenix 34221]

10 hours ago, crash_davis said:

They can sell all of their classic cars for billions.

theseus's chevy

[atomheartbevo 89618]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

theseus's chevy

[bolverk 29646]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/18/world/americas/cuba-power-plant-blackout.html

Quote

 

Cuba’s power grid failed and the entire nation plunged into darkness Friday, less than a day after the government stressed the need to paralyze the economy to save electricity in the face of major gasoline shortages and large-scale, regular outages.

The electricity went out nationwide Friday morning after a failure at a thermoelectric power plant in Matanzas, east of Havana, Cuba’s Energy Ministry said on X.

The blackout came less than a day after the prime minister, Manuel Marrero Cruz, held a late-night television address with state officials to discuss the ongoing electricity crisis, which experts said was the worst the nation — long accustomed to food and electricity shortages — had ever experienced.

For weeks, the country has lacked the fuel to run the power grid, which has left large parts of the nation without electricity for 15 to 20 hour stretches.

When electricity does return, demand surges, further straining the power grid, Mr. Marrero said on Thursday night as he urged people to cut back on usage.

To ease the stress on the electrical network, officials announced on Thursday night that all schools would be closed until Monday and cultural and nonessential activities such as nightclubs would shutter.

Only essential employees should go to work, according to an announcement posted on some government websites, which said hospitals would remain open. Any energy-sucking service that was not vital would be suspended.

“In other words, we have been paralyzing economic activity,” Mr. Marrero said.

Cuba has long struggled with an aging and poorly maintained infrastructure that is not able to produce the amount of megawatts the nation of nearly 11 million people needs.

Cuba traditionally depended on Venezuela for imports, but in the face of dwindling supplies from that country, it began looking in recent years to Mexico and Russia. A severe economic crisis and the cash crunch it produced made it harder for Cuba to pay for those fuel imports.

For more than a year, that has resulted in major gasoline shortages, leading to long lines at gas stations. The government has warned that it will have to drastically increase fuel and electricity prices to generate funds and get people to cut back on usage.

The crisis was recently made worse because poor weather conditions prevented the unloading of fuel deliveries from oil vessels, Mr. Marrero said. Cuba’s energy infrastructure is in poor condition, but fuel shortages were the biggest factor for the ongoing problem, he said.

President Miguel Díaz-Canel blamed the United States trade embargo against Cuba, which limits the country’s ability to import fuel, for creating the government’s cash shortfalls and imposing hardship on Cubans.

Miriam Leiva, a dissident journalist in Havana, said the lack of electricity was so bad that Mr. Marrero’s own video news conference was delayed by several hours because of technical difficulties, which viewers took as likely the result of problems with the power grid.

The fact that the nation’s normally secretive leaders took to the airways to share detailed updates underscored the severity of the crisis, and showed that government officials were nervous and even desperate, she said.

Faced with an authoritarian government, widespread gasoline shortages and soaring food prices, more than 600,000 Cubans have fled to the United States since 2022, U.S. data shows.

“This is a situation that has never happened before,” Ms. Leiva said, referring to the energy crisis. “What’s worse is that they have no idea when they are going to resolve it, or how.”

The problem was particularly critical outside of Havana, Ms. Leiva said, where people go without electricity for long stretches. (The U.S. naval base at Guantánamo Bay operates under its own independent power grid, a spokesman there said.)

The Cuban government appeared to be trying to address the challenge by limiting the length of outages in Havana neighborhoods where they feared popular uprisings, Ms. Leiva said. Tens of thousands of people throughout the country took to the streets in protest after a particularly difficult period in 2021, a show of discontent the government seemed anxious to avoid.

Ms. Leiva said she went to a bakery Friday for bread and found none.

“There is no bread, and they don’t know when there will be any,” she said. “Sometimes it’s because there’s no flour. Today’s it’s because there’s no electricity.”

Alfredo López Valdés, the director general of the national electric company, said the country was working on solutions, but added that they would not come quickly.

“We are fighting; we are not sitting on our hands,” Mr. López said. “We recognize that the situation is very hard.”

 

 

[Brisketexan 105045]

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/18/world/americas/cuba-power-plant-blackout.html

 

Ahhhh.....Cuba.  The Texas of the Caribbean.  

Seriously, horseshoe effect in effect.  Rampant, unregulated capitalism with minimal actual oversight, with profit as the sole governor?  NO ELECTRICITY FOR YOU!  Communist planned economy, stifling growth and the economic tools to develop a functional grid?  NO ELECTRICITY FOR YOU!  Functionally every other grid in the developed world, operating in a regulated, yet profitable environment?  Lights stay on.

But nobody will ever learn.  Anarcho-capitalism or communism....those are the options (false dichotomy) offered to people in both Texas and Cuba.  Fucking Cuba, man.  

[BamaATL 16593]

Interesting points in the below article, what mainly stuck out to me is that water is now a problem, something that didn't immediately jump out to me (it should have) as they are dependent on pumping systems.  

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8elzx8dg7zo

 

Article below explains the why, for those interested.  To summarize, Cuba is dependent on imported oil, predominantly imported from Venezuela (which has cut shipments due to their own problems).  Additionally, the plants in Cuba have been woefully maintained for generations.  

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/how-cubas-electrical-grid-collapsed-what-comes-next-2024-10-18/

 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

This is an issue all over the developing world. Need oil to run water pumps. Well shit, we want to go green, so lets do dams. Then no rain. Well shit, now we don't have water or power.

 

[F250 28761]

I don't give a shit about Cuba. I just want an Ana de Armas clone.

[BamaATL 16593]

14 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is an issue all over the developing world. Need oil to run water pumps. Well shit, we want to go green, so lets do dams. Then no rain. Well shit, now we don't have water or power.

 

I read something a few years ago about the Japanese developing tidal power (not a new idea by any means), which would seemingly be ideal for an island nation.  I haven't read up on new developments on that in a while.

Personally, I've always been partial to the idea of solar updraft towers and their potential, specifically for arid areas.  In order to work, you need a canopy, which could double as a greenhouse.  Additionally part of the updraft captures the moisture and leaves it within the canopy, thus helping with irrigation.  

That said, there are a lot of good ideas, just not developing quickly enough, for lots of reasons.  

[Schulz2.0 28951]

Cuba still having an issue restoring power across the island.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/20/scarce-food-and-stifling-homes-sputtering-grid-pushes-cuba-nearer-collapse

[tx 3 putt 76862]

not sure what they're using to generate electricity but parts and repair services don't appear over night

lol

[boilerhorn 1371]

Daughter #1 (UT undergrad) teaches MS in the Bronx.  Completed her masters at Hunter College in NYC and recently was awarded a 1-week study abroad in...  Cuba.  They have a Cuban professor sponsor, but...  Not like that person will magically keep power on 24 hours a day and help with fresh water.  It does not happen until Feb, but I must admit that I am a tad nervous.

[BamaATL 16593]

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

not sure what they're using to generate electricity but parts and repair services don't appear over night

lol

The other thing about that is, I get the impression that the guys that had the know how on this stuff have aged out; meaning that they didn't have the money for maintenance, but it gets worse, they also didn't replace the guys over time that could do it anyway.  That isn't to say they don't have people that could figure it out, but it is to say it will make it take longer.  One of the things we certainly take for granted is how well trained people are here to deal with these sort of things.  

[InkaUtexas 25855]

1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

Daughter #1 (UT undergrad) teaches MS in the Bronx.  Completed her masters at Hunter College in NYC and recently was awarded a 1-week study abroad in...  Cuba.  They have a Cuban professor sponsor, but...  Not like that person will magically keep power on 24 hours a day and help with fresh water.  It does not happen until Feb, but I must admit that I am a tad nervous.

She will be fine. Might be good for her. A lot of the world lives like they do in Cuba. Flying around the globe at night is a great reminder of that. 

Kiddo (JR @ GWU) just got back from 2.5 months in Northern Uganda building an add on for a refugee shelter. yeah it was rough a bit, more on her colleagues than her, but they managed.

 

[bolverk 29646]

One would think that given Cuba's historic alliances, China could have shipped over a shit-ton of very cheap solar panels throughout the past decade to help them transition away from dirty Venezuelan oil to keep the lights on. Whatever they've been up to is a very poor effort at central planning. 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

9 minutes ago, bolverk said:

One would think that given Cuba's historic alliances, China could have shipped over a shit-ton of very cheap solar panels throughout the past decade to help them transition away from dirty Venezuelan oil to keep the lights on. Whatever they've been up to is a very poor effort at central planning. 

China has never been a big supporter of Cuba, or any of the Castro wannabes until recently and then for economic push. They support Peru, Bolivia more than the others traditional left countries (Cuba/Nica). Venezuela yes, but due to oil.

There always was a break between Maoism and Stalinist/Castro ideologies in the region. Best example. Sendero was maoist, Tupac Amaru were Soviet line groups in Peru. Same country, same time, different visions and would beat the shit out of each other.

If this was Ecuador they would be all over it.

[boilerhorn 1371]

14 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

She will be fine. Might be good for her. A lot of the world lives like they do in Cuba. Flying around the globe at night is a great reminder of that. 

Kiddo (JR @ GWU) just got back from 2.5 months in Northern Uganda building an add on for a refugee shelter. yeah it was rough a bit, more on her colleagues than her, but they managed.

 

I do not disagree w/ you, but I cannot help but be a little worried.  That's what parents do.  I do not want to deter her from going, but want to make sure she is aware of what is going on there.  She is.  

In fact, doing something like that might actually be good for me

[InkaUtexas 25855]

Just now, boilerhorn said:

I do not disagree w/ you, but I cannot help but be a little worried.  That's what parents do.  I do not want to deter her from going, but want to make sure she is aware of what is going on there.  She is.  

In fact, doing something like that might actually be good for me

 Go do it then. Lots of jobs on DEVEX. Or we can make a Surly project. Oh wait....

Main issue she packs a few different items. Know what you need, not what you want.

And for an education experience, what does lack of power really do to it? Unless she was going down there to learn to maintain old soviet power stations.

[texasdago 7562]

Wouldn't it be interesting if we reached out a hand to Cuba and said, "hey, stop being dicks to your people and let us help you bring your country forward" like as a legit olive branch?  I know it sounds simplistic but some people want to keep alienating them and what does that get anyone?

[Brisketexan 105045]

1 minute ago, texasdago said:

I know it sounds simplistic but some people want to keep alienating them and what does that get anyone?

Is this a trick question?  Here's what being 100% hawkish dicks on Cuba gets someone: VOTES, from the Cuban exile community (mostly in Fla).  That's it.  That's the entire driver of our policy on Cuba -- the votes of Cuban Americans who hate the Cuban regime with every fiber of their being (don't entirely blame them, but it's a short-sighted and one-dimensional "policy" that we have as a result).

[BamaATL 16593]

2 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Wouldn't it be interesting if we reached out a hand to Cuba and said, "hey, stop being dicks to your people and let us help you bring your country forward" like as a legit olive branch?  I know it sounds simplistic but some people want to keep alienating them and what does that get anyone?

I don't think that's a bad idea at all.  60 years of this enough, we can be different and be friends.  Additionally, where has all this gotten everyone?  

[texasdago 7562]

Just now, BamaATL said:

I don't think that's a bad idea at all.  60 years of this enough, we can be different and be friends.  Additionally, where has all this gotten everyone?  

That's just it... like real diplomacy to change the course of that country with good faith support to help rebuild Cuba.  

Of course, "why are we sending mah tax dollars to Cuba when my iPhone costs do damn much!? I N F L A T I O N !?"

[BamaATL 16593]

1 minute ago, texasdago said:

That's just it... like real diplomacy to change the course of that country with good faith support to help rebuild Cuba.  

Of course, "why are we sending mah tax dollars to Cuba when my iPhone costs do damn much!? I N F L A T I O N !?"

The old, kill em with kindness mantra.  We tried force, that went poorly, and now we've tried a 60 year cold shoulder, maybe it's time for a different approach, and yes I know Obama tried.  

[Deej 76750]

1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

The other thing about that is, I get the impression that the guys that had the know how on this stuff have aged out; meaning that they didn't have the money for maintenance, but it gets worse, they also didn't replace the guys over time that could do it anyway.

Sounds like Austin Energy. 

[texasdago 7562]

2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The old, kill em with kindness mantra.  We tried force, that went poorly, and now we've tried a 60 year cold shoulder, maybe it's time for a different approach, and yes I know Obama tried.  

I don't know that its a kill them with kindness approach but an understanding on what both sides need to do.  Not just what we will provide but reforms they need to implement.  Again, as you're saying... the current approach hasn't done anything positive.  I suppose we can help them and they can pay us in Yordan Alvarez x 100

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/12/02/havana-cuba-collapsing-buildings-housing-unesco/1998606002/

 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

Funny. embargoed not food. not medicine. Cuba could import from the Eu all they want. All those tourist dollars going in stay with the party, not the people.

 

 

[BamaATL 16593]

48 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Funny. embargoed not food. not medicine. Cuba could import from the Eu all they want. All those tourist dollars going in stay with the party, not the people.

 

 

I understand where you are coming from, and you aren't wrong.  I just wonder if there is a way to flood them with business to the point of the party's influence almost being ebbed away.  I know that is counter intuitive.  However, if money started flowing down hill because it was omnipresent, the thought that the government could tamp down that new found financial freedom and opportunity it presents seems unlikely to me.  Admittedly, it's an odd thought, break communism with prosperity, but I'd still point out, nothing else is working.  

[Bevo 13559]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:24 AM, crash_davis said:

They can sell all of their classic cars for billions.

I'd buy that middle sports car. Is it an Austin Healey?

[Bevo 13559]

9 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I understand where you are coming from, and you aren't wrong.  I just wonder if there is a way to flood them with business to the point of the party's influence almost being ebbed away.  I know that is counter intuitive.  However, if money started flowing down hill because it was omnipresent, the thought that the government could tamp down that new found financial freedom and opportunity it presents seems unlikely to me.  Admittedly, it's an odd thought, break communism with prosperity, but I'd still point out, nothing else is working.  

It seems like it would be a terrible experiment as the result could be intuitive - the new found wealth could help communism survive for many, many more years.

[CHIEF 5075]

I feel about the same with Cuba as I do with Iran and Venezuela. There have been multiple attempts to overthrow the existing political structure, all through unarmed protest by an unarmed population only for the existing governments to put them downed with armed violence and political arrests. No one knows better about who needs to be eliminated than the members of that unarmed population. They need to be armed  covertly and let them stage coups. All three populations are essentially prisoners in their own country, scraping by while their leadership robs the coffers and lives a luxurious life.

CHIEF

[DDD Dad 14324]

3 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I feel about the same with Cuba as I do with Iran and Venezuela. There have been multiple attempts to overthrow the existing political structure, all through unarmed protest by an unarmed population only for the existing governments to put them downed with armed violence and political arrests. No one knows better about who needs to be eliminated than the members of that unarmed population. They need to be armed  covertly and let them stage coups. All three populations are essentially prisoners in their own country, scraping by while their leadership robs the coffers and lives a luxurious life.

CHIEF

So, Bay of Pigs II boogaloo?

[tx 3 putt 76862]

3 hours ago, BamaATL said:

The other thing about that is, I get the impression that the guys that had the know how on this stuff have aged out; meaning that they didn't have the money for maintenance, but it gets worse, they also didn't replace the guys over time that could do it anyway.  That isn't to say they don't have people that could figure it out, but it is to say it will make it take longer.  One of the things we certainly take for granted is how well trained people are here to deal with these sort of things.  

 

i could have a crew there in a couple of days but no way they have spare parts and shops for small or big repairs

they could easily pull some technical know how out of south america but tooling, repair shop and spare parts 

im curious what kind of machinery they’re running. many many many many places in the us are running machinery installed in the 50’s. running it hard 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

47 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I understand where you are coming from, and you aren't wrong.  I just wonder if there is a way to flood them with business to the point of the party's influence almost being ebbed away.  I know that is counter intuitive.  However, if money started flowing down hill because it was omnipresent, the thought that the government could tamp down that new found financial freedom and opportunity it presents seems unlikely to me.  Admittedly, it's an odd thought, break communism with prosperity, but I'd still point out, nothing else is working.  

It is hard to break something that dominates top to bottom. President down to street cleaner (who is also an Ear for the government). Nicaragua had a few chances, but nope, Sandinistas could not let go of power. And if it does, well look at Russia or for a less extreme model (from economic liberalism), South Africa.

 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

12 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

i could have a crew there in a couple of days but no way they have spare parts and shops for small or big repairs

they could easily pull some technical know how out of south america but tooling, repair shop and spare parts 

im curious what kind of machinery they’re running. many many many many places in the us are running machinery installed in the 50’s. running it hard 

South America was also more modern and rarely bought Soviet equipment. Maybe look towards Angola, Mozambique, Egypt.

Joke- Kids take over a plant. Foreman says let me show you how to use it. No need says the kid, my grandfather taught me. It was old then, it is old now.

[tx 3 putt 76862]

11 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

South America was also more modern and rarely bought Soviet equipment. Maybe look towards Angola, Mozambique, Egypt.

Joke- Kids take over a plant. Foreman says let me show you how to use it. No need says the kid, my grandfather taught me. It was old then, it is old now.

 

they ship a lot of equipment to houston to be fixed 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

they ship a lot of equipment to houston to be fixed 

South America? I bet. I meant for similar aged russian gear like Cuba probably has. And the joke could apply to almost any Latin American nation.

[tx 3 putt 76862]

9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

South America? I bet. I meant for similar aged russian gear like Cuba probably has. And the joke could apply to almost any Latin American nation.

 

if it’s russian equipment, they are beyond fucked 

[InkaUtexas 25855]

11 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

if it’s russian equipment, they are beyond fucked 

Nah, just rub some vodka on it, it will be fine. Like a T34.