Is Surly more Liberal than Shaggy?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

8 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

In all seriousness, the only real difference seems to be that 3 or 4 alt right Trumpkin posters from Shaggy seem to have been trolls that didn’t make it over here (I guess maybe they really were paid and/or bots?).  Well, that and Hugo accounts for about 3/4 of the content here.  But otherwise it’s the same group of people that were on cloak room.

Quiet swam and quiet rocko may be the only real difference. Its better here. 

[troph 24562]

It sounded outlandish to say that there were pro-Trump bots/paid trolls posting at first. Over time, some of the little stuff definitely implied something was seriously off. Some of them made a lot of basic grammatical mistakes or english usage errors that made them sound foreign.
We're now getting a lot of media reports that the Russians were paying people to post on Reddit, along with other sites. Given how extensive the attempts were in other areas, plus how we're just now finding out about message board imposters, it's plausible. 

If this is true then we need to better police the board and if there is suspicion of meddling or paid posters or bots those posters should be nuked. On both sides.

[chainsaw 9837]

I'd like my administration not to be openly corrupt, if possible.  I don't think that's a Left/Right issue and fuck anyone who tries to make it that.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Kevin Morgan saved the Cloak Room by ridding us of the Russian trolls. (Runs off, ducks for cover.)

[Amobie 58]

30 minutes ago, troph said:

If this is true then we need to better police the board and if there is suspicion of meddling or paid posters or bots those posters should be nuked. On both sides.

A quick search of "how to get paid to post on message boards" on google has a few articles that are pretty explicit about it.  Paid trolls get paid per post between 5-50 cents per post on specific issues.  So we should be looking for high post counts about specific topics if we want to eliminate paid posters.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Amobie

[Mole 4320]

12 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

No, it just gets more embarrassing for Trump supporters to show their faces each day. 

What has happened in the last month or so that would suddenly make it embarrassing? If they weren't shamed before, why now? I'd think it would be the opposite; as Trump becomes the norm, we'll be willing to tolerate more.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Mole said:

What has happened in the last month or so that would suddenly make it embarrassing? If they weren't shamed before, why now? I'd think it would be the opposite; as Trump becomes the norm, we'll be willing to tolerate more.

Honestly, I think the massive omnibus spending bill was too much to defend.  Trump supporters were really basking in the glow of the tax bill and thought Pelosi's crumbs comment would be huge, but now even they get what a disaster the whole thing was.   There was too much screen ink spilled over deficits on the old board because that was the phony hook they used to attack Obama.  A new board gives them the opportunity to slink away without old shit they posted getting bumped. 

[DaysOff 7851]

A quick search of "how to get paid to post on message boards" on google has a few articles that are pretty explicit about it.  Paid trolls get paid per post between 5-50 cents per post on specific issues.  So we should be looking for high post counts about specific topics if we want to eliminate paid posters.

Gee. I wonder who fits that bill here?

[SquishMitten 10398]

11 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Most Russian bots haven't found it, yet.

You're probably joking, but I had this thought as well. The difference in blatant trolling, etc is substantial. There's still a lot of bullshit, but it's nowhere near as obnoxious as it was before. It does seem unusual that nearly all of the regular posters in every forum made it over here EXCEPT for the Russian-bot-types.

[GSU&UT 1798]

12 hours ago, Pods said:

^this is all true, but it doesn't make Surly more "liberal". Trump isn't a conservative, he's Trump. 

This is bullshit Pods. Trump may not have been someone who really cared much about either party (I've seen the quote where he talked about it being easier to run as a Republican because they're suckers), but he absolutely is the face of conservatism in American right now. His rise can be traced to Newt fucking Gingrich trying to oppose everything "big government" does. Mitch McConnell vowed to fight Obama on literally everything and Trump is following this path by trying to undermine everything the previous administration did simply because it makes the libs mad. Conservatism has shifted farther to the right despite what moderates think.

 

edit: Honestly, if he wasn't the face of real conservatism now then why haven't the so called "real conservatives" fought him on all the bullshit he and McConnell have tried to shove through congress? Why haven't they been a lot more outspoken? Almost all of them are putting party over country despite voting for damn near every one of his nominations, bills. etc (see John McCain complaining about the ACA repeal not being properly presented in the Senate, voting against it, then turning around and voting for the fucking tax bill that was shoved through just as quickly).

Edited May 8, 2018 by GSU&UT

[bernorange 8348]

I guess it's time once again to run the political windsock poll.  I will once again reiterate my position that the needle moves in accordance (opposition) with the POTUS.  When a Pub wins, the Dems are more vocal in the forum.  When a Dem wins, the opposite occurs.  It's been that way forever.

 

OK, poll is up:  http://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/2104-surly-political-windsock-poll-2018/

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by bernorange
add link

[wildcat09 29226]

2 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Quiet swam and quiet rocko may be the only real difference. Its better here. 

I don't think CLH made it over either, or he's laying low under one of the new handles.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't think CLH made it over either, or he's laying low under one of the new handles.

Maybe it is one of those collective action problems.   They're all too scared to post on their own without backup, so they can't reach the critical mass needed to mutually reinforce each other. 

[noharleyyet 2837]

..echo chamber, so yea

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I think an imposter hijacked the CLH handle to prevent his rebirth here. He posts stuff that is so much dumber than even what CLH spewed, it can't possibly be him. 

[JBJ 3648]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Maybe it is one of those collective action problems.   They're all too scared to post on their own without backup, so they can't reach the critical mass needed to mutually reinforce each other. 

It a collective action problem, but not in the way you are thinking.

The board in general has lost a lot of it's rationality going back a few years.  There used to be people willing to rebuff both sides for their shittery.  I think the moderates mostly bailed out in the later days of Cloak Room (especially leading up to the election).  And there used to be a strong libertarian contingency that served the same purpose.  If anything, the board was too libertarian.

Yet, few have returned like had happened in previous election cycles.  What happened to Euro, Washpark, Huck, Wulaw, etc?  And for some reason Brisket has gone off the deep end.

It's created an echo-chamber where people who needed a few bans and rebrands on Shaggy are now thriving on Surly.

[wildcat09 29226]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think an imposter hijacked the CLH handle to prevent his rebirth here. He posts stuff that is so much dumber than even what CLH spewed, it can't possibly be him. 

That's definitely not the real CLH. Someone hijacked Swam's handle too, though Swam created another one and posted here for a couple of days.

[Hank Scorpio 17721]

It really is a shame that most of the nutjobs didn't make the migration over. The politics board is boring as shit. I need someone to come in and bomb threads about how eugenics has many modern day applications and always make sure to type out "Barack Hussein Obama". 

And none of the pizzagaters made it over either, which means that they must be too busy liberating child sex slaves from pizza joints to post. 

[Captainant 27442]

Don't forget BUPKIS

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

It really is a shame that most of the nutjobs didn't make the migration over. The politics board is boring as shit. I need someone to come in and bomb threads about how eugenics has many modern day applications and always make sure to type out "Barack Hussein Obama". 

And none of the pizzagaters made it over either, which means that they must be too busy liberating child sex slaves from pizza joints to post. 

i don't think it's a shame at all. fuck them. they were terrible, disingenuous posters who brought the whole community down.

we need conservative voices. i think the old place was way more conservative than most conservatives did, because they thought it was full of liberal nutjobs. but that's because they were terrible, disingenuous posters.

i think this place is a bit more "liberal" for lack of a better term, but that is to say, it's not really all that liberal at all. it's just less conservative, and far more anti-trump, because every single day he's proving how unfit he is for the office, and yet the gop keeps supporting his shitstain of a presidency.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

It really is a shame that most of the nutjobs didn't make the migration over. The politics board is boring as shit. I need someone to come in and bomb threads about how eugenics has many modern day applications and always make sure to type out "Barack Hussein Obama". 

And none of the pizzagaters made it over either, which means that they must be too busy liberating child sex slaves from pizza joints to post. 

The real meathead morons will eventually find this place, and I will welcome them when they arrive. I am glad we are rid of the bots and trolls.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

31 minutes ago, JBJ said:

It a collective action problem, but not in the way you are thinking.

The board in general has lost a lot of it's rationality going back a few years.  There used to be people willing to rebuff both sides for their shittery.  I think the moderates mostly bailed out in the later days of Cloak Room (especially leading up to the election).  And there used to be a strong libertarian contingency that served the same purpose.  If anything, the board was too libertarian.

Yet, few have returned like had happened in previous election cycles.  What happened to Euro, Washpark, Huck, Wulaw, etc?  And for some reason Brisket has gone off the deep end.

It's created an echo-chamber where people who needed a few bans and rebrands on Shaggy are now thriving on Surly.

I couldn't disagree more.  There's as much rationality and moderation as ever.  It's just that the rationality and moderation is all on one side now because of what happened to the GOP.   The honest, moderate Rs are largely together with the Ds as anti-Trump, whether actively or by default.  Only phonies like Tahoe are continuing with what for them has always been disingenuous, self-serving, bullshit masquerading as thoughtfulness.   And Trump has exposed them for what they are. 

Beyond that, what you're seeing as missing is not rationality, but the pro-GOP rationalizations from moderate Rs.  And they're missing because the present state of the GOP has rendered those arguments impossible to make for honest conservatives.   They are no longer arguing to vote R on grounds of fiscal conservatism because they can't.  Trump and the current GOP have blown that up.   Religious Rs like Wulaw can't argue for the Rs on moral grounds for the same reason, which is why he threw up his hands.   The only choices for them are to check out and wait out Trumpism or swallow their political disagreements with Ds for the time being and actively fight against Trump, hoping that they can save the R party in the same way that the parents of a drug addict kick the child they love out of the house.

But they aren't gone.   Their reason and integrity just won't let them defend the GOP right now. 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Brisketexan 104561]

That's the unfortunate crop that Trumpkins are sowing and don't even care. They are laughing their asses off, smug as can be over all them liberal tears. All the while, they are excusing any and all behavior, setting a national precedent that nothing matters. Wait until the socialist-leaning wing of the Democratic party is emboldened by all the pissed off young people finally getting old enough to care about voting. Everything the GOP lets Trump get away with now, establishes that precedent going forward and you aren't going to be laughing when the strap-on is worn by the other side. 

 

This. New norms that suck are bad. Because ANYONE can use them to their advantage - and our disadvantage.

 

 

That's a really good observation because it describes me more closely than I've ever been able to when asked ("you a dem/ liberal?"). I just want a government that takes only what it needs and does the most good with it. The free market is great, but just like the government it needs checks and balances. People's personal lives are just fucking that, personal. Worship how you please but leave me out of it.  

I think that's about it.

 

Pretty solid. I generally agree.

 

 

This is why I think the NRA refusing any rules is stupid in the longterm.  The NRA of the 70s was about responsible ownership and was not a cheerleader for gun sales that they are now.

 

The zero compromise, all-out-war approach on multiples fronts is a long-term TERRIBLE idea.

 

I think of it like a political fault line. If you move periodically, in reasonable increments, you relieve pressure, and keep some measure of control.

 

If you resist with all your might, the fault line doesn’t move at all...until it does. And then you end up with an 8.0 earthquake, you have no control, and you’re totally fucked.

 

 

I don't think of it as liberal or conservative.  It's Trumpkins vs. everyone else. I'm definitely not a liberal but, fuck, Trump and his ilk are fucking insufferable.  Right now, I can stand libs more than what's left of the GOP.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend shit.  

Personally, I'd like to kick the shit out of many posters on both sides of the spectrum. 

 

 

All I want is a sane center-right party. I don’t think that’s too much to ask, but apparently, it is.

 

 

I'd like my administration not to be openly corrupt, if possible.  I don't think that's a Left/Right issue and fuck anyone who tries to make it that.

 

And this. When did utter corruption and self-dealing become A-OK? What the fuck? I mean, I heard incessant bitching about obama golfing, and 1) he didn’t even do it as often as Trump has, and 2) he sure as shit wasn’t funneling public dollars to his own pockets when he did so.

 

For fuck’s sake, point 2) should piss EVERYONE off.

 

 

It a collective action problem, but not in the way you are thinking. The board in general has lost a lot of it's rationality going back a few years.  There used to be people willing to rebuff both sides for their shittery.  I think the moderates mostly bailed out in the later days of Cloak Room (especially leading up to the election).  And there used to be a strong libertarian contingency that served the same purpose.  If anything, the board was too libertarian.

Yet, few have returned like had happened in previous election cycles.  What happened to Euro, Washpark, Huck, Wulaw, etc?  And for some reason Brisket has gone off the deep end.

 

 

 

I haven’t gone off any deep end. I’m just clearly and loudly noting that we’re in deep shit.

 

We are governed by a man and movement that is stridently anti-facts, lies at a rate that massively eclipses any political behavior in modern times, that enjoys being cruel and vindictive and publicly celebrates it, that acts without considering facts, evidence, or consequences, that happily demeans the most vulnerable among us, that courts racism and xenophobia, that is part of a global movement venomously rejecting the (small “l”) liberal world order of the past 75 years that has brought unprecedented peace and prosperity, and come the fuck on, do I need to go on?

 

The only insanity is to NOT be alarmed by this turn of events.

 

I’m not a lib or a leftist - I’m the same guy who ends up agreeing with about 90% of what he reads in The Economist. Which hasn’t changed, by the way - its take has been consistent my whole life. When I started reading it, it was generally characterized as a generally conservative-aligned publication. Now - without it changing a thing, and mostly because it raises the EXACT same alarm I raise - it’s attacked as a liberal rag.

 

That’s some fucked up shit.

 

 

[Hank Scorpio 17721]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

i don't think it's a shame at all. fuck them. they were terrible, disingenuous posters who brought the whole community down.

we need conservative voices. i think the old place was way more conservative than most conservatives did, because they thought it was full of liberal nutjobs. but that's because they were terrible, disingenuous posters.

i think this place is a bit more "liberal" for lack of a better term, but that is to say, it's not really all that liberal at all. it's just less conservative, and far more anti-trump, because every single day he's proving how unfit he is for the office, and yet the gop keeps supporting his shitstain of a presidency.

That sounds like something a cuck would say. 

I now have become the most prominent conservative poster on Surly. 

[TahoeHorn 107]

5 hours ago, Amobie said:

A quick search of "how to get paid to post on message boards" on google has a few articles that are pretty explicit about it.  Paid trolls get paid per post between 5-50 cents per post on specific issues.  So we should be looking for high post counts about specific topics if we want to eliminate paid posters.

I can see that if 2,000 read a post.  Here it's more like 20.

[TahoeHorn 107]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

...

I haven’t gone off any deep end. I’m just clearly and loudly noting that we’re in deep shit.

...

 

 

I used to worry about you.  I thought something bad had happened.  Now I think you're just trying out an act - testing a Trump-style anti-Trump populist shtick to see how it plays in Peoria.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

16 hours ago, zork said:

Trump Derangement Syndrome

Please describe this in detail.

I hear this phrase thrown out a lot in right wing media and I have yet to hear someone adequately describe it.

It seems like another branding exercise to deflect from meaningful conversation but I could be wrong.

[Brisketexan 104561]

I used to worry about you.  I thought something bad had happened.  Now I think you're just trying out an act - testing a Trump-style anti-Trump populist shtick to see how it plays in Peoria.

Nothing bad has happened to me.

Just watching the world happily shoot itself in the dick repeatedly, and enablers like you pretending that it’s ok.

I’m not a fucking populist. I’m ringing the alarm AGAINST indulging in and enabling populist idiocy. You, on the other hand, just sit back and let it happen because hey, you got a Judge you like somewhere.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

And there you sit, on the sidelines, celebrating how firmly you can sit on your hands.

[TahoeHorn 107]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

...
And there you sit, on the sidelines, celebrating how firmly you can sit on your hands.

How are my actions different from Nancy Pelosi's?  Or Chuck Schumer's?  Or do you have the same criticism of them?

Edited May 8, 2018 by TahoeHorn

[JBJ 3648]

20 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Please describe this in detail.

I hear this phrase thrown out a lot in right wing media and I have yet to hear someone adequately describe it.

It seems like another branding exercise to deflect from meaningful conversation but I could be wrong.

 

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nothing bad has happened to me.

Just watching the world happily shoot itself in the dick repeatedly, and enablers like you pretending that it’s ok.

I’m not a fucking populist. I’m ringing the alarm AGAINST indulging in and enabling populist idiocy. You, on the other hand, just sit back and let it happen because hey, you got a Judge you like somewhere.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

And there you sit, on the sidelines, celebrating how firmly you can sit on your hands.

Basically this post, Hugo.  There is an urgency and rhetoric to the anti-Trump movement that is grounded in conspiracy and sensationalism.

....

I honestly think Brisket went loco because he feels his heritage is attacked.  He doesn't strike me as that type of personality, but maybe he is in that regard.

Edited May 8, 2018 by JBJ

[Brisketexan 104561]

How are my actions different from Nancy Pelosi's?  Or Chuck Schumer's?  Or do you have the same criticism of them?

You’re a card-carrying member of the party that controls the country across the board. You’re on the inside...and you’re a gutless coward.

And yes, Pelosi and Schumer HAVE spoken up countless times to say this shit isn’t normal and it’s not ok.

Here’s a hint - when you’re holding up the example of Nancy Pelosi to argue “see, I’m not so bad”....then you’re pretty fucking bad.

[Brisketexan 104561]

Basically this post, Hugo.  There is an urgency and rhetoric to the anti-Trump movement that is grounded in conspiracy and sensationalism.

....

I honestly think Brisket went loco because he feels his heritage is attacked.  He doesn't strike me as that type of personality, but maybe he is in that regard.

 

1 - tell me what I said in that list that’s false.

 

2 - you bet your ass that’s part of it. And you better watch your ass, because whatever “group” you’re a part of, Trump will demonize it and whip up a frenzy against it the instant he thinks it will earn him applause from his base.

 

I grew up in a country and state that was steadily moving away from stigma and prejudice against Hispanics. So, yeah, when I see us throw things into reverse gear, and my kids and I have folks doubt our loyalty to this country because of our last name, I damned well perk up.

 

Fucking Nazis are enabled by this fuckhole. Nazis, man. And he couldn’t even bring himself to condemn them. Come the fuck on, man. If Muslim terrorists had marched through our streets with torches, culminating in driving a car through the crowd, and Obama had said there were “good people on both sides,” you would be (justifiably) flipping your shit.

[Ghost of LL 15477]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

We are governed by a man and movement that is stridently anti-facts, lies at a rate that massively eclipses any political behavior in modern times, that enjoys being cruel and vindictive and publicly celebrates it, that acts without considering facts, evidence, or consequences, that happily demeans the most vulnerable among us, that courts racism and xenophobia, that is part of a global movement venomously rejecting the (small “l”) liberal world order of the past 75 years that has brought unprecedented peace and prosperity, and come the fuck on, do I need to go on?

 

The only insanity is to NOT be alarmed by this turn of events.

 

Irrespective of what you may think of Brisket more generally, is there anything in these two paragraphs with which one can disagree?  Anything?

As others have pointed out, and as I have discussed at length on the Trump thread, I think there are fewer "conservative" posters because conservatism is dead.  The conservative ethos that goes back to William F. Buckley and was brought into a governing coalition by Ronald Reagan doesn't exist anymore.  

We've just had this conservative/liberal nomenclature for so long that we don't know how to characterize politics without it.  So we fall back on those terms, even though they have nothing to do with our current politics.  There's nothing "conservative" about Trump and Trumpism.

The real question now is between people who believe we should have an open society (i.e., open to new ideas, people, trade, and lifestyles) and those who believe we should have a closed society.  The parties haven't yet shaken out that dichotomy, but they're starting to do so.

Since this is an educated board, most of us fall on the side of the openers.  I'm solidly on that side.

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i don't think it's a shame at all. fuck them. they were terrible, disingenuous posters who brought the whole community down.

we need conservative voices. i think the old place was way more conservative than most conservatives did, because they thought it was full of liberal nutjobs. but that's because they were terrible, disingenuous posters.

i think this place is a bit more "liberal" for lack of a better term, but that is to say, it's not really all that liberal at all. it's just less conservative, and far more anti-trump, because every single day he's proving how unfit he is for the office, and yet the gop keeps supporting his shitstain of a presidency.

You joined Shaggy when it started right? Are you still unaware of @Hank Scorpio ?

[Hank Scorpio 17721]

I've been called the songbird of my generation. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

28 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Basically this post, Hugo.  There is an urgency and rhetoric to the anti-Trump movement that is grounded in conspiracy and sensationalism.

So, would you say it’s somewhat equivalent to the overly reactionary anti-Obama politics of the Tea Party back in 2010?  Because it was all urgency, rhetoric, conspiracy, and sensationalism.

The difference IMO: with Trump the rhetoric, conspiracy, and sensationalism isn’t manufactured on lies like it was with Obama.  With Trump, it’s overtly visible for anyone paying attention through Trump’s own words and behavior.  There’s no debate about Trump making Nazis feel good, that happened. There’s no debate about Trump working to subvert the rule of law for his own benifit when he assaults his own Justice Dept and complains about them not jailing his political rivals.  There’s no debate about Trump’s love for brutal authoritarian dictators like Putin and Xi. DO NOT CONGRATULATE.

But to you I suppose that he’s just trolling and we shouldn’t take it seriously right? 

[wildcat09 29226]

33 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Irrespective of what you may think of Brisket more generally, is there anything in these two paragraphs with which one can disagree?  Anything?

I can get not wanting to be as pessimistic as Brisket, but it still somewhat boggles my mind that educated people can look at the fact that we're entirely controlled by a political party that is indistinguishable in its behavior from pretty much any fascist political movement that has ever taken power anywhere in the world, and which happens to control the greatest military and the greatest intelligence apparatus the world has ever known, and not be extremely fucking worried. I can understand being optimistic about taking back some power in 2018 and 2020, but the blase "no big deal" nonsense so many people are expressing is exasperating. We've seen this story play out before, yet so many people believe we're somehow immune.

[babysdaddy 2718]

22 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So, would you say it’s somewhat equivalent to the overly reactionary anti-Obama politics of the Tea Party back in 2010?  Because it was all urgency, rhetoric, conspiracy, and sensationalism.

The difference IMO: with Trump the rhetoric, conspiracy, and sensationalism isn’t manufactured on lies like it was with Obama.  With Trump, it’s overtly visible for anyone paying attention through Trump’s own words and behavior.  There’s no debate about Trump making Nazis feel good, that happened. There’s no debate about Trump working to subvert the rule of law for his own benifit when he assaults his own Justice Dept and complains about them not jailing his political rivals.  There’s no debate about Trump’s love for brutal authoritarian dictators like Putin and Xi. DO NOT CONGRATULATE.

But to you I suppose that he’s just trolling and we shouldn’t take it seriously right? 

Do you get paid by words or paragraphs?

[bolverk 29397]

3 hours ago, JBJ said:

Yet, few have returned like had happened in previous election cycles.  What happened to Euro, Washpark, Huck, Wulaw, etc?  And for some reason Brisket has gone off the deep end.

It's created an echo-chamber where people who needed a few bans and rebrands on Shaggy are now thriving on Surly.

2

I've seen Euro, Washpark, and Huck post in this sub.

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

17 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

The left is going to trot out more and more socialists.  There are few moderate democrats around these days.  It’s going to be interesting. 

You push the pendulum higher one way, it swings back higher the other way. That is how pendulums, and politics, work.

 

Trump has pushed it higher than anytime I know of (I'm not a historian, and didn't really follow politics that much until Trump).

 

Don't blame the pendulum, blame the person who pushed it higher. Better yet, blame the ones who cheered when it was pushed higher. Who will be the same ones screaming and crying when it swings the other way.

[Brisketexan 104561]

I can get not wanting to be as pessimistic as Brisket, but it still somewhat boggles my mind that educated people can look at the fact that we're entirely controlled by a political party that is indistinguishable in its behavior from pretty much any fascist political movement that has ever taken power anywhere in the world, and which happens to control the greatest military and the greatest intelligence apparatus the world has ever known, and not be extremely fucking worried. I can understand being optimistic about taking back some power in 2018 and 2020, but the blase "no big deal" nonsense so many people are expressing is exasperating. We've seen this story play out before, yet so many people believe we're somehow immune.

For the record, I never WANTED to be this pessimistic...I’ve just gone where the evidence has led me.

Time for more scotch.

[Pods 7526]

6 hours ago, Amobie said:

A quick search of "how to get paid to post on message boards" on google has a few articles that are pretty explicit about it.  Paid trolls get paid per post between 5-50 cents per post on specific issues.  So we should be looking for high post counts about specific topics if we want to eliminate paid posters.

Fuck off DSA, Trump is the biggest existential crisis and threat to the American way of life and the rule of law in any of our lifetimes. Hugo's posting frequency reflects that fact. If anything, the rest of us who feel this way should be posting more, not Hugo posting less. Your repeated gaslighting doesn't change this.

Hugo is posting a lot about Trump taking over our country and collaborating with the Russians because it is the biggest scandal in US history and he's pissed off about it. You don't like Hugo posting about this, entirely because you don't like the light he's shining on this scandal. Full stop.

Hugo's reason is the exact same reason I am reading and posting about this. I almost never even read the West Mall, or Cloak Room until Trump. Now almost all my posts are about some variant of this. 

You trumpkins that complain about Hugo act like he's generating this from scratch, he's not. Hugo is posting the same shit off Twitter the rest of us are, he's just posting more of it. Read Seth Abramson, Kyle Griffin, Natasha Bertrand and Caroline O. and you'll see he's posting a small slice of what they are posting. If Hugo is being paid to post, he's shit at it, because there are dozens more things he could be posting with very little additional time commitment every day. He could easily double his post count with an extra 15-30 minutes a day. Easily. 

Trumpkins don't like him because you don't like the light he's shining on the orange elephant in the room, so you attack the messenger. I would hope this is obvious to all the non-trumpkins on here. If Trumpkins spent half the time demanding a solution to the problems Hugo is bringing to their attention, that they do on complaining about Hugo bringing them up, the country would be much better off. 

[JBJ 3648]

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1 - tell me what I said in that list that’s false.

 

48 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Irrespective of what you may think of Brisket more generally, is there anything in these two paragraphs with which one can disagree?  Anything?

Not false, just sensational.  Like the way Obama went on a diplomatic apology tour. (I actually typed this before your post, Hugo)  Both sides!

 

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

2 - you bet your ass that’s part of it. And you better watch your ass, because whatever “group” you’re a part of, Trump will demonize it and whip up a frenzy against it the instant he thinks it will earn him applause from his base.

I grew up in a country and state that was steadily moving away from stigma and prejudice against Hispanics. So, yeah, when I see us throw things into reverse gear, and my kids and I have folks doubt our loyalty to this country because of our last name, I damned well perk up.

I assumed as much.  I don't have a hispanic last name nor do I look hispanic.  My family anglicized our name before we migrated to Mexico (thinking they were going to be admitted into the U.S.).  The ones here are somewhat ironically considered "white."  The ones still in Mexico aren't trying to get in.

[ChiTownDoc 21098]

So it's obvious Epi was a bot/paid troll?  See him and few others didn't make it over.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

17 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

The left is going to trot out more and more socialists.  There are few moderate democrats around these days.  It’s going to be interesting. 

Under usual circumstances this would be a reasonable expectation.

But these are not normal circumstances. I think it’s a mistake to look politics through the right-left pendulum because Trump doesn’t represent a conservative ideology.  

He represents a reactionary grievance extremist type of political ideology which is based on ignorance and emotion.

The pendulum is going to swing back but it’s not going to swing towards full blown lefty ideology, it will swing towards a normy or moderate left ideology which is what the majority of the population identifies with.

 

[TahoeHorn 107]

28 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I've seen Euro, Washpark, and Huck post in this sub.

Well, at least Huck seems the same.

[Rip76 4913]

Yes.

[JBJ 3648]

1 minute ago, TahoeHorn said:

Well, at least Huck seems the same.

I've seen all of them, and I didn't mean they changed.  They just post less.

[Brisketexan 104561]

So...in other words, “true.” Sure, I used shorthand (I get criticized around here for being verbose - man, I can’t win for losing with y’all), but the points are fucking accurate. And unacceptable.

Seriously...come on.

[thrillhammer 683]

17 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

The left is going to trot out more and more socialists.  

it would have been funnier if you had said trotsky