MMR vaccine discussion

[lmao 178]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Like the flu, the virus mutates, sometimes significantly.  I've had the flu numerous times, and I am not immune to newer strains of it.  I fully expect Covid to mutate enough to require a booster every so often.  I got the Moderna vax, and so far my balls haven't fallen off and no 3rd arm has appeared (except for that baby arm in my pants)..  

What is your medical background?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

5 minutes ago, lmao said:

What is your medical background?

He performs his own prostate exams.  

[Wally Fairway 5547]

2 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Like the flu, the virus mutates, sometimes significantly.  I've had the flu numerous times, and I am not immune to newer strains of it.  I fully expect Covid to mutate enough to require a booster every so often.  I got the Moderna vax, and so far my balls haven't fallen off and no 3rd arm has appeared (except for that baby thumb in my pants)..  

fify, for truth in posting standards

[Chewbacca 7777]

41 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You don’t understand scientific evidence. There’s different types and levels of evidence. I’ll take the word of an Israeli Fauci-type over a lab study. I’ve found this doc quoted in Times of Israel etc. She’s legit and her saying that is significant. The language barrier makes it seem weird. I get that. Data will come. 
 

As far as who’s selfish or not, I’d argue it’s selfish for us to use doses of vaccine on people who have recovered rather than sending them out into the world. There’s a much bigger benefit sending them to Brazil or Africa or whatever. 

Ah, yes.  The rest of us just don't understand.  That must be it.  

[Chewbacca 7777]

43 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

If you have gotten covid, you don’t need the vaccine. That’s it.  

The medical community disagrees with you.

[Sbbruin 21850]

23 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

fify, for truth in posting standards

[Sbbruin 21850]

41 minutes ago, lmao said:

What is your medical background?

I went to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College.

[Sbbruin 21850]

55 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You don’t understand scientific evidence. There’s different types and levels of evidence.

[Orale 1087]

Because I don’t want to feel like shit for minimal if any benefit? Or risk any of these rare side effects? 
My immunity is likely better than yours. Im good to go. I don’t need want to experience any side effects. If that makes me selfish, I guess call me selfish. 

So you're playing Russian roulette with the Delta variant floating around. I hope you don't get hit hard man.

[Samson's Wig 3192]

I'm thinking we build a big ass wall around Utah and move all the antivax folks in there to fend for themselves.  I know Utah is pretty and we'll kind of miss it, but they'll all be dead in a year or two and then we can go off roading there again.  Might as well give 'em something pretty to look at while the measles get to work.

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

The medical community disagrees with you.

The medical community is not one person or anything.  
 

Initially they wanted anyone and everyone to get shots just to do it. Now people are starting to come around to the fact that it’s unnecessary and in fact probably wasteful for someone like me to take 2 shots. 
 

 

[Chewbacca 7777]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

The medical community is not one person or anything.  
 

Initially they wanted anyone and everyone to get shots just to do it. Now people are starting to come around to the fact that it’s unnecessary and in fact probably wasteful for someone like me to take 2 shots. 
 

 

Who, specifically, says you should not get vaccinated?  Everywhere I look, from Fauci to the CDC to the Mayo Clinic, they say you should still get vaccinated if you have had it.  I have seen some recommendations that you only need one shot vs. two if you had a confirmed case of COVID, but Rand Paul is the only one I see saying you don't need it.  Literally in 7 pages of Google results, he's the only one saying no.

[midtown 3345]

You can not rationalize with the anti-vax.    They are convinced there is some type of dark overlord who has every scientist, doctor, medical school, and drug company in on the vaccine hoax.   And that all these people are brainwashed by big pharma.  

Actual convo:

Anti: Are you vaccinating your kids?

Me: of course.

Anti: Maybe you should do some research before you commit child abuse. 

Me;  Did it.  And I also check with two family friend super specialized pediatricians who did fellowships an went to Harvard and Southwestern.  These are smart people and they vax their kids with zero reservation.

Anti:   You're so naïve.   You don't think Harvard makes money off of vaccinations?  Dumb

The will use complete falsehoods to bolster their beliefs.   They will make outrageous claims and huge jumps in logic just to have a string to their conspiracies.    I had one within the last year tell me that they still put mercury in vaccines. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by midtown

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

5 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Your talking to yourself.  

Somebody thought they were logged in as a sock. Oops.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

The medical community is not one person or anything.  
 

Initially they wanted anyone and everyone to get shots just to do it. Now people are starting to come around to the fact that it’s unnecessary and in fact probably wasteful for someone like me to take 2 shots. 
 

 

I appreciate your analytical and scientific approach attempting to explain complex medical realities. I realize "scientific consensus" generally should be an oxymoron, it is difficult for lay people to make sense of the frequently contradictory evidence received from public health officials and members of the medical community.

[Chewbacca 7777]

I appreciate your analytical and scientific approach attempting to explain complex medical realities. I realize "scientific consensus" generally should be an oxymoron, it is difficult for lay people to make sense of the frequently contradictory evidence received from public health officials and members of the medical community.

Lulz. One anti vaxxer sucking off another.

Again, who, specifically, is saying you shouldn't get vaccinated? I'll wait.

[Paco 1934]

Now people are starting to come around to the fact that it’s unnecessary and in fact probably wasteful for someone like me to take 2 shots. 
 
 

El oh fucking el dude. They're begging people to get the shots and in many cases having to dispose of doses because people don't show up. Yeah you're really saving the fucking world by passing your shot on to someone less fortunate. Holy fuck I've heard it all now.

[Chewbacca 7777]

I have been here just a couple of months. One of the two things that has been abundantly clear across threads is that you're our Alan. I don't pick on Alan's (or share a Blanton's).

Way to change the topic. Who is saying people shouldn't get vaxxed? Bueller?

[Orale 1087]

Way to change the topic. Who is saying people shouldn't get vaxxed? Bueller?

Put the troll on ignore dude. Makes reading this forum so much more enjoyable.

[Chewbacca 7777]

Put the troll on ignore dude. Makes reading this forum so much more enjoyable.

I'd rather mock the trolls.

[Fondren & Main 6715]

22 hours ago, lmao said:

I keep seeing comments on social media from "pro-vax" (for lack of a better term) people who are so pro-vaccination they're spreading misinformation about its efficacy. "We still need to wear masks, etc., etc., because the vaccine isn't 100%, you can still spread/get Covid if you're vaccinated"

They're just having fun and doing a little fake business.

[blacklab 11928]

If you're just going to ignore questions asked to you or answer with stupid shit this is not the message board for you.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

6 hours ago, Orale said:

6 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Way to change the topic. Who is saying people shouldn't get vaxxed? Bueller?

Put the troll on ignore dude. Makes reading this forum so much more enjoyable.

That guy literally trolled himself on this thread.

[Chewbacca 7777]

That guy literally trolled himself on this thread.

Can't answer, eh?

[hobbes2702 13033]

3 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

That guy literally trolled himself on this thread.

Still struggling for an answer 

[gmr548 16577]

I don’t typically put things in my body I don’t need. That’s it. 

I’m fucking cackling at this given your previous avatar

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

37 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I’m fucking cackling at this given your previous avatar

Wait, are you saying @GRHorn took both Willie and Earl, ummm, inside his body? I mean, I'm not judging, just doesn't seem to fit with his rugged persona.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

4 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Still struggling for an answer 

Sounds like a personal problem.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Harrison Bergeron

[GRHorn 105]

On 7/15/2021 at 6:16 PM, Chewbacca said:

Who, specifically, says you should not get vaccinated?  Everywhere I look, from Fauci to the CDC to the Mayo Clinic, they say you should still get vaccinated if you have had it.  I have seen some recommendations that you only need one shot vs. two if you had a confirmed case of COVID, but Rand Paul is the only one I see saying you don't need it.  Literally in 7 pages of Google results, he's the only one saying no.

Well, we have one of the most aggressively vaxxed countries in the world where most of the recovered patients received no vax. A small amount received one shot. I believe that’s due to guidelines in their country although I can’t find them now. 
 

If only we could see how they’ve done. Oh wait, there’s new data. 

Who isn’t getting Delta? 

Well, it’s hard to say for sure because of confounders in the data, but it looks like recovered people — people who had tested positive for the coronavirus in a past PCR test — are massively under-represented. Recovered people are around 9% of Israel’s population, but they’re less than 1% of current cases. 

That has led to speculation that recovery from past Covid is more protective against infection from the Delta Variant than vaccination. Known recovered people in Israel are mostly not vaccinated, though some chose to get a single booster dose 

There could be other explanations for this result. The Delta wave is, for now at least, not affecting the communities hardest hit by Israel’s previous Covid waves: Ultra Orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs. So perhaps recovered people aren’t being exposed to the virus yet. 

But I’m not sure that’s enough to explain the sharp difference. From data I was passed last week, recovered people were testing at only 0.1% positivity, compared to more than 1% for vaccinated people.

I wouldn’t be surprised if natural infection turned out to be more protective against variants than spike protein vaccination. It makes sense that the body’s immune system would find more ways to attack the whole pathogen and would recognise different parts of it compared to the changing spike in variants.

 

🤔🤔🤔

 

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Wait, are you saying @GRHorn took both Willie and Earl, ummm, inside his body? I mean, I'm not judging, just doesn't seem to fit with his rugged persona.

This is funny because that was 2 or 3 avatars ago. It upset CR folks because, “Bro, they would never wanna hang out with you, bro!”

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

7 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

10 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

That guy literally trolled himself on this thread.

Can't answer, eh?

Seriously, just put your dog on a leash ... and remember which user name you're posting under.

Edited July 17, 2021 by blacklab
user taking some time off for trolling

[hobbes2702 13033]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Well, we have one of the most aggressively vaxxed countries in the world where most of the recovered patients received no vax. A small amount received one shot. I believe that’s due to guidelines in their country although I can’t find them now. 
 

If only we could see how they’ve done. Oh wait, there’s new data. 

Who isn’t getting Delta? 

Well, it’s hard to say for sure because of confounders in the data, but it looks like recovered people — people who had tested positive for the coronavirus in a past PCR test — are massively under-represented. Recovered people are around 9% of Israel’s population, but they’re less than 1% of current cases. 

That has led to speculation that recovery from past Covid is more protective against infection from the Delta Variant than vaccination. Known recovered people in Israel are mostly not vaccinated, though some chose to get a single booster dose 

There could be other explanations for this result. The Delta wave is, for now at least, not affecting the communities hardest hit by Israel’s previous Covid waves: Ultra Orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs. So perhaps recovered people aren’t being exposed to the virus yet. 

But I’m not sure that’s enough to explain the sharp difference. From data I was passed last week, recovered people were testing at only 0.1% positivity, compared to more than 1% for vaccinated people.

I wouldn’t be surprised if natural infection turned out to be more protective against variants than spike protein vaccination. It makes sense that the body’s immune system would find more ways to attack the whole pathogen and would recognise different parts of it compared to the changing spike in variants.

 

🤔🤔🤔

 

Do you know what speculation means?

[Chewbacca 7777]

Well, we have one of the most aggressively vaxxed countries in the world where most of the recovered patients received no vax. A small amount received one shot. I believe that’s due to guidelines in their country although I can’t find them now. 
 
If only we could see how they’ve done. Oh wait, there’s new data. 

Who isn’t getting Delta? 

Well, it’s hard to say for sure because of confounders in the data, but it looks like recovered people — people who had tested positive for the coronavirus in a past PCR test — are massively under-represented. Recovered people are around 9% of Israel’s population, but they’re less than 1% of current cases. 

That has led to speculation that recovery from past Covid is more protective against infection from the Delta Variant than vaccination. Known recovered people in Israel are mostly not vaccinated, though some chose to get a single booster dose 

There could be other explanations for this result. The Delta wave is, for now at least, not affecting the communities hardest hit by Israel’s previous Covid waves: Ultra Orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs. So perhaps recovered people aren’t being exposed to the virus yet. 

But I’m not sure that’s enough to explain the sharp difference. From data I was passed last week, recovered people were testing at only 0.1% positivity, compared to more than 1% for vaccinated people.

I wouldn’t be surprised if natural infection turned out to be more protective against variants than spike protein vaccination. It makes sense that the body’s immune system would find more ways to attack the whole pathogen and would recognise different parts of it compared to the changing spike in variants.

 

 

So nobody in the medical community saying you should not get vaccinated?

[GRHorn 105]

13 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Do you know what speculation means?

Sure. It falls under speculation now, but this is the best statistical breakdown I’ve seen of this new wave of infections. It needs to be analyzed further, but it appears to be pretty significant.

[hobbes2702 13033]

16 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Sure. It falls under speculation now, but this is the best statistical breakdown I’ve seen of this new wave of infections. It needs to be analyzed further, but it appears to be pretty significant.

So who are these doctors that say you don’t need the vax? I think that’s the part we are still waiting on.

[Chewbacca 7777]

So who are these doctors that say you don’t need the vax? I think that’s the part we are still waiting on.

There is no consensus, but he can't tell us who is on his side.

Sounds like consensus to me.

[Paul Wesley 3278]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

Who isn’t getting Delta? 

Well, it’s hard to say for sure because of confounders in the data, but it looks like recovered people — people who had tested positive for the coronavirus in a past PCR test — are massively under-represented. Recovered people are around 9% of Israel’s population, but they’re less than 1% of current cases. 

That has led to speculation that recovery from past Covid is more protective against infection from the Delta Variant than vaccination. Known recovered people in Israel are mostly not vaccinated, though some chose to get a single booster dose 

There could be other explanations for this result. The Delta wave is, for now at least, not affecting the communities hardest hit by Israel’s previous Covid waves: Ultra Orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs. So perhaps recovered people aren’t being exposed to the virus yet. 

But I’m not sure that’s enough to explain the sharp difference. From data I was passed last week, recovered people were testing at only 0.1% positivity, compared to more than 1% for vaccinated people.

I wouldn’t be surprised if natural infection turned out to be more protective against variants than spike protein vaccination. It makes sense that the body’s immune system would find more ways to attack the whole pathogen and would recognise different parts of it compared to the changing spike in variants.

 

You understand that none of this is an argument against vaccines, right?  

I mean, let's consider an outcome where the whole world gets vaccinated.  There would likely be a handful of deaths from cavernous sinus thrombosis or DVT or anaphylaxis.  Maybe.  AND THEN ALMOST NO ONE ON THE PLANET DIES FROM COVID-19 (you know, in EXACTLY the same way that we don't die from polio and we don't die from smallpox).  Furthermore, even if a vaccinated person passes the delta variant to another vaccinated person (which is unlikely), no one dies from that either.

Contrast that to a world where no one gets vaccinated, and we continue to suffer socially and economically with years and years of masks and distancing and "hey, kids, don't go near Grandma!"  Sporting events and religious ceremonies are life-threatening endeavors.  Educating an entire generation is problematic to say the least.  Healthcare workers leave the field in droves (which is already happening).  And we'll have TENS OF MILLIONS OF MORE DEATHS.  But hey, everyone, look at the bright side!  THOSE OF US WHO SURVIVE OUR COVID INFECTIONS AND HAVE ANTIBODIES MIGHT BE LESS LIKELY TO GET THE DELTA VARIANT!   AS IF THAT WOULD BE A MEANINGFUL FUCKING METRIC.  And it also ignores the fact that in an unvaccinated world, there is going to be a lot more delta variant and every other variant bouncing around for generations to come.

Your post is an excellent example of how anti-vaxxers will always find conspiracies, half-truths, and fallacious arguments, and they'll repeat all of them to anyone who will listen... despite overwhelming evidence that they're wrong.  

Apologies to the board for engaging the obvious troll, but there might be a few people out there on the fence of whether to take the vaccine, and I wouldn't want those people to mistake GRHorn's nonsense for a meaningful argument.

Thank God we got smallpox off the table a few decades before the trolls got broadband.  We'll never do anything like that again.

[GRHorn 105]

5 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

You understand that none of this is an argument against vaccines, right?  

I mean, let's consider an outcome where the whole world gets vaccinated.  There would likely be a handful of deaths from cavernous sinus thrombosis or DVT or anaphylaxis.  Maybe.  AND THEN ALMOST NO ONE ON THE PLANET DIES FROM COVID-19 (you know, in EXACTLY the same way that we don't die from polio and we don't die from smallpox).  Furthermore, even if a vaccinated person passes the delta variant to another vaccinated person (which is unlikely), no one dies from that either.

Contrast that to a world where no one gets vaccinated, and we continue to suffer socially and economically with years and years of masks and distancing and "hey, kids, don't go near Grandma!"  Sporting events and religious ceremonies are life-threatening endeavors.  Educating an entire generation is problematic to say the least.  Healthcare workers leave the field in droves (which is already happening).  And we'll have TENS OF MILLIONS OF MORE DEATHS.  But hey, everyone, look at the bright side!  THOSE OF US WHO SURVIVE OUR COVID INFECTIONS AND HAVE ANTIBODIES MIGHT BE LESS LIKELY TO GET THE DELTA VARIANT!   AS IF THAT WOULD BE A MEANINGFUL FUCKING METRIC.  And it also ignores the fact that in an unvaccinated world, there is going to be a lot more delta variant and every other variant bouncing around for generations to come.

Your post is an excellent example of how anti-vaxxers will always find conspiracies, half-truths, and fallacious arguments, and they'll repeat all of them to anyone who will listen... despite overwhelming evidence that they're wrong.  

Apologies to the board for engaging the obvious troll, but there might be a few people out there on the fence of whether to take the vaccine, and I wouldn't want those people to mistake GRHorn's nonsense for a meaningful argument.

Thank God we got smallpox off the table a few decades before the trolls got broadband.  We'll never do anything like that again.

Hey you stupid motherfucker, I’m not arguing against vaccines dumbass. You should get the vaccine.

I quoted the part referencing natural immunity. Just about the only people that shouldn’t get it are those with documented infections. That’s my point. JFC 

6 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

So who are these doctors that say you don’t need the vax? I think that’s the part we are still waiting on.

 

6 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

There is no consensus, but he can't tell us who is on his side.

Sounds like consensus to me.

Well, I can’t read Hebrew, but in a nation with almost complete vaccination compliance, most of the recovered didn’t get vaccinated. And those that did got one shot. Seems to me like they told those people you don’t need to get it. 

 

 

[CooterBrown 18009]

[Paul Wesley 3278]

3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I quoted the part referencing natural immunity. Just about the only people that shouldn’t get it are those with documented infections. That’s my point. JFC
 

I know exactly what you quoted, and that argument about the superiority of "natural immunity" -- which the anti-vaxxers love, and which you are parroting here -- is totally wrong.  That's MY point.  

Above that, you claimed that the "medical community" was "starting to come around" that multiple doses of vaccine were wasteful and unnecessary, which is also wrong.  

[Anastasis 23469]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:02 PM, GRHorn said:

To keep it very basic your body has a B cell mediated immunity and a T cell mediated immunity. Antibody production Is B cell mediated. Those studies don’t account for T cell mediated immunity and the vaccines don’t appear to meaningfully produce a response there. 

Link to paper?  Cause T cell stimulation appears to be one of the key differentiating factors in some of the different vax regimens when compared head to head.  What evidence is there that T cell response is not robust with the vaccines, in particular mRNA vaccines?

[Anastasis 23469]

13 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if natural infection turned out to be more protective against variants than spike protein vaccination. It makes sense that the body’s immune system would find more ways to attack the whole pathogen and would recognise different parts of it compared to the changing spike in variants.

This would not be completely surprising, exposure to the virus should generate response to the spike as well as nucleocapsid.  I think that there are also significant differences between the different spikes being used in the vaccines and the mRNA vs. vector delivery methods, in terms of their robustness to variants.  The stabilized spikes (JNJ, PFE, MRNA) present different areas of the spike protein vs the unstabilized spike vaccines (AZ). If I understand correctly, the sites of most of the mutations are more exposed with the unstabilized spike conformation. 

[GRHorn 105]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Link to paper?  Cause T cell stimulation appears to be one of the key differentiating factors in some of the different vax regimens when compared head to head.  What evidence is there that T cell response is not robust with the vaccines, in particular mRNA vaccines?

I was wrong on that. mea culpa.

That’s from this thread discussing natural immunity and vaccine immunity. She thinks boosters should instead be sent to unvaccinated adults overseas. 

Also, another link discussing natural immunity. 
 

Again I am not saying people shouldn’t get immunized. I’m saying people that have been infected and recovered have adequate immunity. 

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Again I am not saying people shouldn’t get immunized. I’m saying people that have been infected and recovered have adequate immunity. 

I don't think that we have enough clinical data to make a robust comparison between natural immunity vs. vax immunity. 

If it was me, and I was previously infected, I'd do one mRNA shot to cover my bases. You're giving the immune system another and slightly different look at the spike, and doing so outside of the respiratory tract. 

[midtown 3345]

Has their ever been a virus where post infection immunity lasted months or years?

[Anastasis 23469]

14 minutes ago, midtown said:

Has their ever been a virus where post infection immunity lasted months or years?

People infected with 1918 flu could pump out antibodies nearly 100 years later. 

[midtown 3345]

That would be awesome.   I'm semi kind of hoping now that I have the vax protection I get covid and have my natural immunity.   Of course there was a good chance I already had it from going to NOLA in March of 2020.

[C-Man 27222]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I don't think that we have enough clinical data to make a robust comparison between natural immunity vs. vax immunity. 

If it was me, and I was previously infected, I'd do one mRNA shot to cover my bases. You're giving the immune system another and slightly different look at the spike, and doing so outside of the respiratory tract. 

I had COVID in March 2020. It was confirmed with antibody test in late April, three to four weeks after I'd mostly recovered. I asked to have my COVID antibody level checked again in December and it came back clean -- no antibodies. I took the first shot of Pfizer on St Patty's Day 2021, exactly one year to the day that I started feeling effects of COVID.

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I had COVID in March 2020. It was confirmed with antibody test in late April, three to four weeks after I'd mostly recovered. I asked to have my COVID antibody level checked again in December and it came back clean -- no antibodies. I took the first shot of Pfizer on St Patty's Day 2021, exactly one year to the day that I started feeling effects of COVID.

Yeah, I remember you were one of the first surly cases.  I think that you did the smart thing by boosting with a vax. 

[C-Man 27222]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, I remember you were one of the first surly cases.  I think that you did the smart thing by boosting with a vax. 

I wasn't gung ho about getting the vaccine until I learned my antibodies were no longer detectable. I also felt really shitty for 24 hours or so after the first shot and maybe half that on the second.